Monte

As Steve H. mentioned, if people are so close as to hear the Pinpointer vibrate, they are definitely too close. I'm on the hearing impaired side of life, but I also have numbness and lack of sensation in my hands to I like to both hear and try to feel whatever I can when using a Pinpointer. I like the MS3 wireless set-up because I can hear the device without having to remove and ear-cup like I used to. Besides, if people are so close to you to her the device, what does that matter? They are close enough to be annoying and get in your way and be bothersome, which is what often happens, especially with younger folks. Monte

Chuck, Yes, I tried both the 8.5 round DD and the 5X9½ DD. I didn't like the rod-mount pint on the 8.5" round coil or the nose-heavy feel. I personally preferred the elliptical coil and keep the 5X9½ DD mounted on my primary-use Simplex +. My 1st Simplex + wears the standard 11" DD round coil for open areas, and just hoping Nokta / Makro or an after-market coil maker will bring out something close to a round 5" coil. Until then, the 5X9½ DD is working quite well for me. As for some Dealer that always frustrate me, here a good reason. Look at the Nokta / Makro Accessory Coil list for the Simplex + and note the blue bold I did to their list: Waterproof DD Search Coil - 24x13 cm / 9.5"x5" (SP24) Features Part Number : 17000168 Description : Waterproof DD Search Coil Size : 24x13 cm / 9.5"x5" Including coil cover and coil mounting hardware. Too often I have seen this done by a few Dealers, especially KellyCo. Remove a coil cover and/or mounting hardware and sell them separately. The manufacturer sells the coil, with coil cover and mounting hardware and that's what you should be getting w/o an extra charge. I know a couple of people who bought the 8.5" DD, felt it worked OK, but parted with it and went to the 5X9½ because of the improved balance and feel, as well as performance in a lot of the modern Coin & Jewelry Hunting sites with mode-than-desired modern trash. Simplex + w/5X9½ DD is one of my Daily-Use Team that rides in my vehicle full-time. Works well, and as a bonus it is 'fun' to use. Monte

I first started as a Dealer in '77. I had a job in Law Enforcement, but my 'hobby' was metal detecting and I wanted to sell what I used because I felt that brand to be the best. For me, yes, and therefor for others as well. Through the years, until the end of 2013 when I got out of dealing, I was either a one-brand dealer, or a 'multi-line' of two or three brands. For ME, I sold either one or multiple brands, but what I was selling was also what I was using because I was an Avid Detectorist. Coin shops are usually operated by coin dealers and most of them do not, or have never, been really 'active' in the hobby. They don't used them or know them, they just carry a popular brand name and draw metal detecting hobbyists into their business who shop for detectors and maybe get them into selling some of the older and collectible coins they find. Or, maybe making some sales to them since they have an interest in older coins. It's no different than some stores only selling one brand of bicycles or baseball gear, or other products that carry just one or maybe two brands of some product, and also the sales people never use many of the products, and the business owner doesn't use a lot of it, either. It seemed like most of the time they didn't really know the product to try and 'sell' you on anything and simply referred to comments in the manufacturer's marketing literature. I can guarantee you that most smaller-size detector dealers were not making a living on detector sales alone. Often it was simply an occasional sale with very little profit. And, for the most part, we saw a lot of smaller dealers, either out of a business front or out of their home or trunk, back in the hey-day of the metal detecting 'craze' during the '70s and '80s that started dying off in the early-to-mid '90s. Today, and it depends upon the country or region we live in, the metal detector sales business is a far cry from what it used to be. Here in the USA we used to have a lot of metal detector dealers around. In '81 I lived in a smallish town of about 15,000 people. There was a White's Dealer at the paint and hardware store, a coin shop sold White's, and a guy also sold White's out of his home. There was a Fisher dealer who sold out of his home, and I was a Garrett Dealer and had a metal detecting shop, and I also set up at Outdoor or Sportsman's Shows. That was really getting into the high-times of the detecting industry which pretty much peaked from '83 to '86, at least here in the USA, and then sort of leveled off for a short while. At that point many detector makers started to close up, from about 1990 on, and by then mail-order (actually using the mail and based on ads in magazines) became popular and the big discounting started. It really got a boost in discounting in '87 and '88 and progressed from there. Then the internet started about '95 or so and it took no time at all before magazines died, local dealers started to close up, and we have had fewer and fewer local guys selling sicne so much is super-discount based. Bigger businesses could afford to be a multi-line outlet, but most local dealers or individual dealers kind of stuck with th one or maybe two brands they used an that was it. 'kac' is fortunate to still have a 'local' dealer around, whether or not they know much about the product because he can at least stop by and check out some products in-hand. Monte

Rich, no snow here. However, at got down to 16° before sun-up, and now at 10: 30 AM is is mostly clear, sunny and warmed to 26° and a liht breeze picked up so I don't think I'm heading out today, snow or no snow. So, like every cold and confined winter it means indoor testing. The Garrett MS3 headphones are one of the most appreciated 'accessories' we could ask for (other than an accessory cil assortment) and I have a set for each of my Apex devices, plus the separate Tx/Rx package to use them with any of my other detectors and get away from corded headphones. As for a testing spot that is out of the weather, I need to get a couple of grandsons out here to handle a chore for me. I moved my old carport and we sided it with metal siding and Monte Jr. added a mad-door. That 12X20 structure is now my enclosed woodshed. But when they put the last batch of loose wood in there, they piled in on the center open area rather than stacked it around the side with the other wood. The central area is where i do some in-door (but chilly) out-of weather testing as I can bury targets in the dirt or just lay them on the ground and still have the detector deal with the ground mineral make-up. As for the Apex, no, it doesn't have some adjustments like recovery speed or iron bias or whatever else some folks bring up, .... however .... it does have very good in-the-field performance, handles a lot of iron debris quite well, considering the slightly bigger-size 6X11 DD coil, and so far, everything about the Apex I like. Performance, as well as quick-and-simple adjustments, available settings, and I definitely can't forget the wonderful light-weight and comfortable balance. Now, to get my hands on Garrett's new coils and a smaller size NEL coil, such as the 5" DD for the really challenging sites I like to hunt. That will help me pass some time awaiting weather improvements. Glad you're replacement Apex took care of the issues you had and I'm sure it is a detector that will hang around in your personal outfit. Monte

I'm not an Equinox 800 owner, now, but I had one. For some Multi-IQ tasks I have it covered with the Vanquish 540. I have another SMF unit but mainly a group of different Single Frequency detectors that function quite well. With every detector i own and use, with the exception of he V-540 that doesn't have adjustable GB, I always make sure I adjust the GB f each unit before starting any hunting session. Having a 'proper' GB with any detector can be beneficial for a number of reasons, and, yes, in some cases it can help with depth-of-detection. In "some cases" refers to those makes and models that have a GB that functions in the search mode. One thing to be aware of is there are a lot of detectors, some featuring a 'Ground Grab' type automated GB or even Manual GB, or both, that is only a function of a Threshold-based All Metal or Pinpoint mode and does not function with the motion-based Discriminate mode. Even some higher-end models that rely on an internally fixed GB in Discrimination. Monte

My friend, UtahRich, had some issues with his new Apex at the coil cable connector. He contacted Garrett, they sent an RMA shipping label. he sent it in but received a brand new Apex. I have two Apex devices an one has a 'noise' issue at the cable connector. I have it boxed to send in, they will send me a brand new replacement. The advantage I have is I am still able to get out hunting with my first Apex until the other one is replaced. My reason for 2 of them, like other favorites where I own two of the same, is to keep a different search coil mounted full-time. That way I just grab the detector / coil set-up I want for a particular site. I just need to determine which two coils I'll use most often and be good-to-go. Monte

Shelton, I appreciate your post. I have two (2) of the new Apex devices. One of them had a 'noise' issue near the coil cable connector/control housing connector. If I had th connector nut finger snug and nothing got moved about, all was well and I could hunt away. My first Apex didn't have that issue. The folks at garrett, as always, were quick to take care of the problem. As for 'other noise' such as EMI, my Apex devices run very quiet most of the time. I always have them start-up at Full Sensitivity, and in my Custom Discriminate mode that 'accepts' all notch segments from '20' on up I DO, on occasion, end up in a noisy environment, like here in my den. But when out hunting, I can be under most phone-pole power lines and even close to some of the metal-box power units on-ground and have very little if any issues. But a lot depends on the power source and who know what because I can relocate to a different area and be close to a power-pole line or transformer and get some EMI instability. Usually I drop the Sensitivity from the full '8' setting to '6' or sometimes'5' and that takes care of the issue Location, as always , can be a key. Monte.

Great to hear! Through the years I've seldom had a need for Garrett service, but when I did it was simply exceptional. I have a set of the MS3 headphones for each of my Apex devices and they are terrific! Comfortable, block a lot of outside noise, nice ear protection this time of year, and best of all the audio is great for this hearing-impaired old guy. Keep us posted on how things go with you and the Apex. Monte

It looks like I'm late to the Apex Evaluation Party. Sorry, but I've tied myself up with a multi-model evaluation I set out to do with 10 brand new detectors I had bought. At least 9 of them and the other I did some trading to get a new unit. I'll try to keep it 'on-topic' here since this is a Garrett Forum, but I came away from the evaluations quit pleased with the Apex. I bought my first Apex as one of the first batches to be shipped from the factory and it has been working quit well. I haven't had the opportunity to get it out to a ghost town yet, but that's partly because I have been holding off for a smaller-s-size coil to tackle the more iron debris choked areas. Not to mention it has been overgrown with a lot of dense weeds since about June. My initial plan was to fit the Apex in as one of my 'Daily-Use Team' detectors that I keep in the vehicle to travel with me should I chance upon a detecting opportunity. Therefore, most of my detecting with the Apex has been limited to grassy parks, school and sports field sites, and all have been well-hunted over the years. To get to know it as I was learning it after it arrived, i compared it with two of my other ride-alongs, a Vanquish 540 w/5X8 DD and Simplex + w/5X9½ DD.. I know those two well so that made it easier to work with the Apex. The only thing I initially wished it had was a slightly smaller-size coil in the 5X8 to 5X9½ size. There have been too many littered places, mainly modern trash, where the 6X11 Viper was just a wee-bit too long and the influence of the other nearby targets made the audio and visual responses a little jumpier than I wished. But let me touch on that briefly: We learned decades ago, in the earlier days of Discrimination and detectors with Double-D coils, that DD's have more difficulty than Concentric coils when it came to accurate Discrimination, and then when visual Target ID arrived on the scene, the DD's were typically a bit jumpier than a Concentric coil if both were worked on the same detector. Have manufacturers addressed this and improved on TID in more recent years? Yes, but there certainly there can be some trade-offs. I have handled some top-end models that had/have very jumpy VDI read-outs, but they are a really good detector IF a smaller-size coil is mounted. I've tried some other competitor's models that were/are quite impressive with a Concentric coil, but a comparable-size Dd works but has short-comings in some iron nails and other challenges. Sam detector, different behavior. Therefore, even when announced I figured the Apex might be a little more troubled because it is using a DD coil, and in addition it's a longer tip-to-tail size. It's done pretty well for me in the open plowed fields and such where I've taken it, but suffers in the very trashy places. With their announcement of the Ripper and Raider coils, it should help us all out, especially folks like me who hang out in more littered environments and the 5X8 DD Ripper is likely to become a main-use coil that will stay mounted to one of my two Apex devices. Now, one more hunt update from today. I got the permission to work a double lot that was purchased and they went in last week and bladed a lot of it around. Weeds are now 98% gone. I hunted this after a house was demolished a couple of years ago and it was wheat-back Cent haven! Now I have access to a lot more open ground were another house used to be until about ten years ago. Yesterday I nabbed 1 Memorial Cent and 1 Clad Dime, and a few Wheat-back Cents. Today ... NO memorials, NO Clad, and if I counted the coins right, 28 Wheat-back Cents .... but NO Silver! My Apx & Viper Coil will be attacking it again as soon as I can tomorrow. There is a lot of trash in the mix from th two old houses, other structures and whatever litter was tossed there this past decade. Fortunately, I can 'toe-scuff' most of the coins out of the now loosened and softer dirt that's been moved around, and coins were found from about 2" to the deeper ones at 4" to maybe 5" at a stretch. I'm using my 'Custom' Disc. set-up that accepts everything fro'20' on up because I like to hear most ferrous debris that's present. Volume-8, Iron Volume-2, Sensitivity-8. Mainly using 'MF' when I start out but checking out both '15' Hz and '20' kHz when I am over near where there is more discarded iron, bottle caps, etc. I'll save some the question of asking if the Apex is perfect. No, it isn't, and in over 55 years running these devices I haven't ever had a 'perfect' detector. What I will say is that I am very satisfied I made a good choice. I like the very comfortable light=weight, balance and feel for this old phat who's falling apart. It's working well, offers ample adjustment features fr my needs, or those I feel most people might have, and it makes an excellent 'fit' in my detector outfit to complement other favorites I use. And best of all, I have a lot of 'fun' getting out with the Apex, and, for me, that's a main ingredient that has keep me active for all these decades .... having 'fun.' Now, tomorrow I'll head out for more 'fun' but really hope I can chance upon some silver coins. They have to be out there somewhere. Monte

Steve, I align with you when it comes to folks presenting thoughtful comments and not salesmanship. I was not singling out your website when I used the word 'gripers' and perhaps picked the wrong term. There are the 'griping' people on a few other forums that I visit now and then, or maybe just read, and they get annoying. More thoughtful and considerate folks here, like on my Forums. I do get a bit bothered when you have a specific brand forum, however, and you get those who just want to pop on and promote a different brand they favor. Like you, I enjoy 'constructive' discussions. I, too, really like the Garrett Apex and enjoy using mine. Heading out again in about four hours when it get light and warms up. This place is open and the stock 6X11 DD is doing OK. I have a few other places, however, where a more mid-size 5X8 DD will be handier, and as more folks latch on to different coils from Garrett or NE L, I'm sure we ought to hear more positive, constructive comments. By the way, the Apex, with only the one available search coil, did quite well in a 10-model testing session I did over the past week or so. It made me feel even better about this unit knowing there are now going to be accessory coils to broaden its applications. As for health, I guess I am feeling as well as I can, but sadly my detecting-time is much more abbreviated the last several month. I feel those good-old-days of long-duration hunts are a thing of the past. I'm working to trim my detector outfit because I have excess from a 10-unit evaluation I just did of brand new detectors for $550 and under. Need to part with most of those new detectors and I am including a few of my own pristine detectors as I just have to wind things down to what I can use for when I can hunt. Bummer. In my 'medicine cabinet' there is: I guess if I take the right dose of each I'll hang in there a while longer. Monte

Good to hear, and keep me posted. I was almost ready to text you (it's 3:10 AM) and discuss the Apex a bit more. Headed out with mine again when the sun is up and it warms a bit. Last chance with good weather at the graded vacant lot that produced Wheat-backs yesterday. There just has to be silver, somewhere. Keep m/us informed, and I have already discussed the issue. A trip to Texas is good now that wintry weather is setting in over your way. Monte

Steve, I couldn't agree more. I have brand-specific Forums on my site and it isn't easy to keep all conversations 'On-Topic' related to a brand because there are too many other-brand or model loyalists who like to put a lot of detectors down .... if it isn't what they happen to like and use. I try to keep things in line as best i can, and to be honest, we don't have as many gripers as I find here on your forums. As you know I've been enjoying this great sport for a good while now, and I own and use an assortment of detectors I happen to like. That includes two of the Apex devices, and I've been waiting to have smaller coils available for them so I can properly outfit mine for different applications. Perfect? Nope, but there isn't 'perfect' detector made, but it is a positive move from Garrett with a new concept that works well. I've had a lot of projects going on, house remodeling, and a bit of health issues the past several months so I haven't been as active on your Forums. I'm back in the game now .... and Garrett topics will be here on the Garrett Forum. Monte

Very true and perhaps the main reason for my decades of success .... along with using a smaller-size coil and working a site slowly-and-methodically. Having patience helps us along the way, and that's what it takes to do what you related. Monte

Simplex #1 has v.2.76 and Simplex #2 is ready with v.2.77 and both are working terrific. I see no reason to take two steps forward and one step back. If TID is jumpy due to a target being deep, just recover the target and see what it is. No different from having a jumpy or non-locking VDI due to a target being on-edge or angled, close to some sort of masking trash, in some challenging ground or any other reason. If the Simplex +, or any detector, audibly signals on a target, that's good. Then it's our turn to take over and recover the target and see what it is, good or bad. To find targets, shallow-to-deep, I want to have all the performance ability a detector can offer. No logic in "dumbing-it-down" as I see it. I'm sure the accessory coils are also going to help some folks who work trashier places around their town and will have better / tighter VDI read-outs with a smaller-size coil than the stock 11". Besides, if they feel deeper targets are an issue, just reduce the Sensitivity a bit. That's what the control is for. Monte

Dollar-for-dollar, the V-340 is a pretty surprising value. That said, I own and use a couple of V-540 Pro Pack units and they, too, are quite a value in the industry. No 'perfect' detector out there so I own and use what is reasonably affordable that provides me with ample adjustment function but without a lot of fluff. I use the Pinpoint mode quite often in certain locations, such as a grassy park, etc. Yes, it has that volume glitch, but not as bad as the EQ-800 I owned a couple of months ago. I use my 'Custom' mode on each V-540 I have, using the Relic mode with the 2nd Vanquish that keeps the 9X12 DD mounted because it has a slightly slower recovery rate and works somewhat similar to a 'Deep' or 'Boost' mode on some models where a slower sweep-speed helps enhance good-target detection of deeper-located targets. My main-use V-540's Custom program is based on the Jewelry mode to benefit from it's quick-response and fast-recovery that might be just a wee bit slower than the Coin mode. Also to rely on my preferred Discrimination setting of Accepting all but the first two Notch Segments. That's a little more than the Jewelry mode accepts which is all non-ferrous range segments. On that model I like the Jewelry mode's recovery speed, allowing the extra notches to let me work in and around more ferrous debris, and I really like the 5X8 DD that stays mounted full-time. Monte

'Thank You' .. Dilek!! It's been long wait and I am very pleased to see these two coil offerings The 5X9½ DD open-frame coils are my next-best coils on my CoRe and Relic only to their smaller-size coils. The 8½" DD is also better-looking with the rod-mount ears centered than the round 9" Concentric which has the rod-mount ears too far to the rear from center. plus it is a heavy feeling coil. Glad that's not the way it was rumored you'd be going. The stock 11" round DD is just fine for open-areas . Either the round 8½" or elliptical 5X9½" DD coils are excellent new coils for Simplex + users. NOW, all we need is a round 5" DD coil for those of us who devote a lot of hunt-time in extremely iron littered sites. I hope it comes next. Monte

If possible we'll try to work in another WTHO this year as we have held two or more per year the past 5 years, but the virus sure messed things up for people. Personally, I agree it is a bad virus, but so have been other virus forms we've dealt with. Ten years ago the HiNi was down-played whereas this time I feel it's been a bit blown out of proportion in many ways> It was due to politics tens years ago and politics now. Yes, a bad bug, but, as with everything, life should go on. It's us to us as individuals to use whatever level of caution we feel comfortable with. None of it has stopped me or friends from getting out detecting as often as we have wanted to, and I can assure you I am not in the fittest of health and my immune system stinks. I just try to do what's right and I always keep my hands washed. We have averaged 17 to 25 people per Outing and it looked like we were going to have a record number of 30 to 35 people as of the first of February, then the virus hit. Some folks couldn't make it but it was mostly due to limited $$$ coming in from loss of work, etc. Since we started these in early 2015, we have had participants from: Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Illinois, Kanas, Nevada, Oregon, Utah and Washington. We wouldn't mind increasing the range of participants, and it HAD looked like we would have included New Mexico, Alaska, Michigan and perhaps two other states represented if there hadn't been a pandemic declared. Hopefully, you'll be able to attend one of the future Outings, and with any good leads we might even end up with one closer to where you live. Monte

First, a 'Congratulations' to UtahRich and OregonGregg for their success on the recent 12th WTHO held out of Wells, Nevada. I will correct Rich's post as I recalled one more attendee I forgot to list and that brought us to 19 participants. Our 'average' for the first 11 WTHO's was '17' to '25' per outing, so considering the effects of the covid virus and people altering their travel plans, I think we had a good showing. Only one of the prior '11' Outings was more of an urban Coin Hunting get-together, and the rest have been ghost ton based were we got to enjoy the challenges of tackling some of the nastiest amounts of iron nails and other Ferrous and Non-Ferrous debris. Two of those 10 ghost town outi9ngs have been based out of Vale, Oregon where we hunted three gold mining era ghost towns and one farm and ranch townsite. The others have all bee held in Nevada and we've used Wendover, Montello and Wells as out 'base-points.' The WTHO's are a no-charge, come-at-your-will outings and can challenge those who have mainly been 'city-shooters' who just go after coins and jewelry in parks and schools and yards. It can be an awakening. Why, they can even be a challenge for a lot of remote area gold nugget hunters who also enjoy some of the vast Nevada territory. Why, I even hear tell there are one or two such people on these Forums who kind of hang out in the Reno area .... sure would be nice if they came and joined us on an Outing sometime. I even own my 2nd Nokta FORS Core that I bought from someone about four years ago that works great! I'd even be kind enough to loan it to him --- if he's make a future get-together. As Rich and Gregg mentioned, it's not just fun to try and find a good keeper or two for ourselves, but it is interesting to what others at work. Note their detector and coil choice, and the way they put them to work in the think sagebrush, dense weeds, open spaces, and around a lot of debris and building rubble. Educational might be a good term for that, and at times also entertaining. Due to a health matter I wasn't able to stay for the entire outing so I missed meting up with several of the new-comers and returning regulars, but as a who I am sure most enjoyed the great bunch of people who participate in the WTHO's. So, I am kicking back here at home in Eastern Oregon, keeping my foot elevated and wishing for a speedy recovery so I can get back out there detecting soon. It's always interesting to note some of the found targets, such as several coin-purse clasps on this Outing, and some nice early Military Buttons and uniqueries.. If you'd like to join the fun sometime in the future, just shoot me an e-mail and let me know you'd like to be added to the WTHO Contact List. get to meet some3 of these3 interesting people, like UtahRich and OregonGregg in person. That, also, can be quite entertaining, too. Monte

No argument here as I also found the vanquish 540 to be a lot of fun to use, with both coils, and the 5X8 DD is an excellent general-purpose coil for most places, including those with low-to-modest amounts of annoying Iron debris. And it is powerful, as well, providing very nice audio in the excellent ML-80 headphones. I also preferred it to the EQ-800 and this is a nice complement to my other performance=proven models. Monte

Way-to-go, 'Hardtimehrmit'! Nice batch of finds, and I also enjoy using my V-540 with the 5X8 DD. Looking forward to more reports of success afield. Being in Reno you ought to drive on over and join a good group of us on a Welcome-to-Hunt Outing June 3rd thru 7th. Bring along your vanquish, 5X8 DD coil, or other serious Relic Hunting units and help us make more good recoveries from the old ghost towns. It would be a shorter drive for you than for most f us. Questions? Shoot me an e-mail. In the meantime, keep finding more good keepers! Monte

Steve, to a point I am talking in generalities because they positioned this in the Ace series, and we can only expect an upscale follow-up for the AT series. I have repeatedly stated I like the 'package' and grip used, the control housing looks great and the display's VDI is larger and easier-to-see. Also, time and time again in almost each post I have stated that we don't really know about the design, if they made any software differences between modes with regard to recovery speed, etc., etc. I've also said that I really hope they have made some improvements over the Ace line, but until we use it, we won't know. But I did listen to the audio behavior when they sampled some targets, and I have several friends who did the same and then contacted me about what they heard. I note that at about 1:05 into Brent weaver's video he said the Apex is a 'totally new design." I noticed that when he sampled a coin and an iron nail in the video, the Nil had more of that Garrett Iron Audio 'ring-time' to it that was a bit drawn-out or delayed recovery. I had an Ace 400 and we have used the T Gold and AT Max with that Iron Audio in the very ferrous contaminated sites and using that Iron Audio response was terrible. It needs to b a quicker response at a low tone like a T2 or CoRe or Relic or MXT Pro. As I have also stated several times, I have been thinning out some detectors and have made room on my wall for an APEX, which will be used at times where it can work well with that 6X11 Viper coil. It will see regular travel and regular everyday use once they get a couple of good smaller-size coils on the market for it. Needed to work most of the challenging sites I hunt. Monte

Maybe the APEX offers more Iron Audio adjustment in its price range, but does it? The Fisher F44, a lower-priced model, goes from 'OFF' at a Volume setting of '10' to then increase 10 steps from 11, 12, 13, 14, - - - - to 20. I think that overall we generally agree on many points of interest about the Garrett APEX. and that it is not a new king-of-the-hill or up-line model to challenge or replace the AT series. I'm sure they are working on that right now. It is just an 'Ace' series and all we can do, until we get one I-hand to evaluate, is hope they have refined and improved some of the things the Ace didn't do well, while adding something useful to it. Don't get me wrong, I was surprised and impressed that they went the route of a Selectable Frequency option as well as Multi-Frequency. Until you and I or anyone else uses it, who rally knows how well it will perform? I know it will go up against my Vanquish 540 Pro Pack with it's 5-Tones and Multi-IQ multi-frequency. With regard to your Simplex + performance in the All Metal and other modes, I have so far been 'OK' with the All Metal mode performance, but not to the level of boasting or bragging about it. I've only had limited opportunity to hunt our one-and-old city park out in the open center grassy area. It works, but ... My favorite modes are Park 1 and Beach with Field mode coming in a close #3. I am holding out hope that maybe, just maybe Garrett engineers designed in some recovery speed difference in some of the modes like they have on the Simplex +. Again, we won't know until we handle it. Oh, and your backlight comments I mainly agree with. I like to turn it on or turn it off. And if 'on it needs to be bright enough to be functional and not blinding. The Vanquish 540 has an On or Off backlight, but it's a red backlight and it isn't very bright. I only used it in early evening and I wished it was white, and also wished it was brighter. as for the Simplex +, I pointed out the differences not for you as much as for readers unfamiliar with what it offers. I have mine on A2 or A3 right now, to come On when I locate a target and be bright enough and not distracting. Of course, one of he best ways for you and I to put our backgrounds, knowledge and talents to work to provide the best into here on Steve's Forums, is for the good folks at Garrett to send an APEX to each of us.

The Simplex + at $299 and APEX at $499.95 means the Simplex + is about 60% of the APEX price tag. Looking at it the other way, the APEX is $200 more than a $300 Simplex + so that's an increase of 66.66% or ⅔ more than the price of a Simplex +, and that's significant to lot of detector shoppers. As you stated, and I agree, 'on paper' the new APEX appears o offer some potential for improved performance based on the Selectable Single Frequencies, and possibly using the Multi-Frequency. But we don't know for sure what or how many frequencies are actually being used, nor do we know the in-the-field performance of the APEX until we use it, and then compare it side-by-side with a comparable SMF device. But while we are referring to "on paper" descriptions by reading the specifications and statements, can you see where the APEX provides the following: Backlight: Is it 'On' or 'Off' like the Vanquish 540? Or does it provide 'Off' plus 4 levels of constant brightness or 4 levels of Automatic brightness that come on with target detection ... like the Simplex +? Iron Audio Volume: Which the V-540 doesn't offer, then other than 'Off' I would hope it has at least 3 level of intensity like the Simplex +. Threshold Level Adjust for the All Metal mode: I have Threshold adjustment on the Simplex +, but ... Oh, wait, the APEX doesn't have an All Metal mode to adjust a Threshold level. Audio Tone Options: The APEX offers 5-Tones, if all Disc. segments are accepted, just like the Vanquish 540. The Vanquish doesn't have any audio options. Does the APEX ? I haven't read about them, but when I get on in my hands I'll verify that. The Simplex + only offers three Discriminate audio options: Park 1 and Park 2 (kind of like Coins US and Coins International) are each a 3-Tone mode. Field is a 2-Tone mode w/VCO audio enhancement. Beach mode is 2-Tone w/o VCO and a different audio high-tone than Field mode. Recovery Speed aka Reactivity or Separation referred to by different manufacturers: I don't see it stated, but it might be in software based on the mode. We won't know until we get a APEX in-hand. The V-540 is a quicker-response in Coin mode and Jewelry mode, and a slower-response, kind of like a 'Deep' program, in the Relic mode. The Simplex + has a little slower, or 'Deep mode' behavior in Field and Beach modes. The Park 1 is a comfortable Recovery rate and Park 2 is a faster recovery rate. The APEX , at least from what we have heard and read. I will be getting an APEX in order to learn just what good things the folks at Garrett might have dne with the Ace series, and how well it works and if there are any worthwhile performance benefits in how it behaves afield and with the different Frequency choices. I agree with the Nokta / Makro approach with most of their models, an the Simplex + is just what it was meant to be. A better-than-most detector, perhaps some would say at least a mid-line or mid-price level performance and featured model, and an absolute unbelievable "entry-level" price. Instead of folks trying to compare a Simplex + with an APEX or Vanquish 540, or even an Equinox or AT Pro ... they ought to compare the Simplex + design, features and performance with any other detectors with an MSRP of $299. Any challengers? I am not going to argue the fact that "on paper" the new Garrett ACE APEX really looks like a lot of features at a decent price and at a reasonably priced entry level. I am really hoping this model might give us at lest some enhanced performance of the Ace siblings. If not, it at least shows us th direction the folks at Garrett are going and we can hope a new upper-end AT version will bring the more avid detectorist that better-level of performance. Yes, to me the blended Viper 6X11 isn't going to make a good 'general Purpose' search coil. The Simplex + round-shaped 11" DD and the V-540's 9X12 DD provide better coverage and improved depth-of-detector ('On Paper' based on the detector's settings and ability) for those who hunt wide-open spaces such as a beach, a plowed field, or wide-open grassy parks with minimal masking trash. And for those of us who spend ±90% of their detecting time in densely iron contaminated Relic Hunting sites, when we can also be hampered by building rubble, rocks, sagebrush, heavy weed or tree growth and other vegetation, we need smaller size search coils .... in BOTH directions and not just a side-to-side width. The Viper coil, regardless of the hocus-pocus stated in the videos, just isn't going to cut it. The Simplex + w/11" DD isn't either and smaller coils are needed and soon to be out. I hope Garrett gets busy on accessory coils. At least the V-540 Pro Pack came with the excellent mid-size 5X8 DD that is working well. Just my thoughts. I liked the presentation. I like the looks and some of what I read and head and saw. But some has me hesitant until I actually use and compare the APEX. Monte

What "smaller coil?" The APEX standard coil is 6X11 DD and that is not what I consider to be a 'smaller-size' coil. It's more of a 'medium-size' coil when compared with a 7X11 DD or a 5½X110 or 5X9½ DD or the slightly shorter tip-to-tail 5X8 DD. I don't mind an elliptically-shaped search coil, but once one of the dimensions gets to be over 7" it falls into the medium-size or on to a larger-size, such as the 9X12 or 8X11. A "smaller-size" coil would be in the round 4½", 5" or 6" category, or an elliptical coil like the small 4.7X5.2 'OOR' DD, or something up to about 4X6 DD. "Separation" isn't just hunting a site with all targets aligned East-to-West and approach them from the North or South. They are many, and often odd-shaped, and can be scattered all about a site in all manner of orientations and close proximities. That '11' fore-and-aft coil length is going to defeat the efforts due to good-target masking. The new 'Viper' standard coil might be fine for a wide-open park, a plowed field, maybe a sports field and certainly most beach work. But don't try and convince an avid Relic Hunter who deals with dense debris that the skinnier width is going to make a big difference. Garrett's been working n this new creation so I'm trusting they will also come out ... soon ... with some workable smaller-size search coils. Monte

Yes, it is good to see Garrett step it up with something newer and creative, but .... in their entry promo video they only inferred to the Vanquish 540 and Simplex + as the two models they were comparing their APEX with. That's unfair in several ways. One is that they only pointed out those two models 9by reference and not name) and commented on what the APEX had to offer. It's not fair that a comparison didn't offer any support of what the other models offered compared with the APEX. But let's be fair and start with what folks would pay, the $$$$ factor, for what the manufacturer offers, and we'll base that on their MSRP. That definitely changes things up a bit! The Nokta / Makro Simplex + is $299 and the APEX is $499.95, so that's not fair since the Simplex + only costs 60% of what the APEX costs. And in overall features and adjustability, the Simplex + offers a lot more. I think we need to compare Garrett's new 'advanced' or 'r-vamped' Ace series model with other offerings at comparable MSRP's. What are they? Let's take a look by brand: Fisher: The closest is the F4 at $449.00 Minelab: The Vanquish 540 at $499 Nokta / Makro: The Racer 2 at $499 White's: The Treasure Pro at $499.95 Of these, the V-540 is a reasonably fair comparison, and I have the V-540 and know what it can do. I had, briefly, an Ace 400 and dumped=t it quickly because of what it can't do. I am really hoping Garrett changed the Ace-behavior with the APEX but watching th videos and listening to the Iron Audio and drawn-out 'ring-time' am will need this new model in my hands to check it out. The Fisher offering doesn't provide any serious competition at this price-point, and the White's Treasure pro is simply laughable. If you've never handled one .... don't. But the Nokta / Makro racer 2? I can assure you that for that price point the falls way short of features and performance unless there's some magic under the hood, but ..... it's still an Ace series model. Honestly, I really like the looks and some of the new features but they are going to have to have made some significant changes in performance afield from what the Ace series has offered. And they definitely need to get some optional search coils out soon, especially a couple of smaller-size offerings. This 'blended-concept' Viper 6X11 DD just isn't going to provide the abilities of a good smaller-size coil. I hope the new ACE APEX truly is a model to rival the competition in performance. Monte