Manticore Bump Sensitivity In Gold Mode

[Gold Catcher]

1 hour ago, Gerry in Idaho said:

Putting detector down, caused signals and chatter, detecting steep incline caused chatter, and hunting tailing piles was the worst.  Manticore is the most bump sensitive detector I have ever used.  It's so bad, I kept changing coils thinking I had bad coils.

Whatever the reason, shaft issues, hypersensitive electronics, wrong wiring, I have no idea. But the Manticore sucks in bump senitivity in gold mode. Even when you don't touch anything just strong wind can cause the chatter. I am actually really suprised that the testers did not pic that up. Or, they just had relic hunters test it who never used the gold mode. However, no wind, no touching anything, no fly landing on the coil, and the Manti is brilliant for shallow gold in trashy sites. 

GC

[Steve Herschbach]

On 6/9/2024 at 3:49 PM, Gold Catcher said:

Whatever the reason, shaft issues, hypersensitive electronics, wrong wiring, I have no idea. But the Manticore sucks for bump senitivity in gold mode. Even when you don't touch anything just strong wind can cause the chatter. I am actually really suprised that the testers did not pic that up.  However, no wind, no touching anything, no fly landing on the coil, and the Manti is brilliant for shallow gold in trashy sites. 

GC

Try this experiment next time you are out and are experiencing the bump issue. Manually adjust the ground balance very low and test, adjust it to mid-range and test, and adjust it very high and test. With some detectors bump sensitivity is related to the ground balance setting, so a person in one type of ground sees it, when a person in different ground does not. The Gold Monster in particular exhibited this behavior but there was no way to manually adjust the ground balance. With Manticore you can.

Another interesting experiment would be to rollback to the original less gold sensitive firmware and see if it also is less knock sensitive. Of course the unit would be less sensitive to small gold but perhaps the two things are related, boosting the one boosted the other?

[Hunterjunk]

I am using the Manticore in version 1 firmware and have never updated , won't be either !  The manticore in this form is crazy sensitive to tiny gold for me , I don't want to find it any smaller . Yes it is very bump sensitive even in this version as well , although no worse than my Nox's . Coil control is paramount . I will be trying Steve's suggestion about ground balance although I usually run with tracking on . I have experimented with gold down to 0.03 gram and cannot track it out with tracking on . I do think the way the Manti runs so quiet without all the fizzing and burping of the Nox causes the coil knocking to be more noticeable .

[Steve Herschbach]

10 minutes ago, Hunterjunk said:

Yes it is very bump sensitive even in this version as well , although no worse than my Nox's

But more or less than version 2, or the same? That's the question. Like you note, lots of people complained about knock sensitivity with the Nox. I experienced it far more with the 11" coil than the 6" coil and in theory the 5x8 Manticore coil should do better than the 11", as long as you do not trigger the lower rod issue. My initial run with the 5x8 coil on my salty ground, I really did not notice any bump sensitivity, but salt ground balances far different than most salt free ground. Kind of why I am asking people to check. Might be something to it or maybe not, but I have information indicating it is at least worth looking into. the good news is Multi-IQ is far more forgiving of variations in ground balance than single frequency detectors.

[Hunterjunk]

 Steve I was pointing out to users that they will have knock sensitivity if they go back to version 1 . More or less than version 2 ?  No idea , having never been there !  I find the conductive rod issue very interesting . When I lay the machine down to isolate the gold in the scoop there is that initial false but once still I have no issue . I have chased pieces of gold so small with it that after dropping them a few times I have thrown the lot down the bank in frustration and gone looking for bigger bits , 0.03g an up !

[Steve Herschbach]

2 hours ago, Hunterjunk said:

Steve I was pointing out to users that they will have knock sensitivity if they go back to version 1

Yeah I got that. Just wondering if it is less or not. We know from you it won’t go away entirely, thanks! 

I’m not rolling back as I’m quite happy with latest version. My smallest bit with 5x8 latest firmware is 0.016 grams or 0.24 grain. A flake really, not a nugget by the wildest stretch. Good sharp signal but less than an inch deep of course, solid centered 1 on target id. I have suggested to Minelab they move the scale in gold mode to right as so many small bits bang so hard to far left they get lost in the edge of the screen shadow. 0.24 grain is impressive, close to Gold Bug 2 territory. I could hit bits under 0.1 grain with my GB2 but never had a scale accurate enough to say by how much. I can only imagine what a Multi-IQ machine built from ground up just for nugget hunting with specialized coils would be like. Wish I had that epoxy filled 4x6 GB2 concentric coil tied to the Manticore circuit. The GB2 might hit slightly smaller bits but I am convinced the Manticore punches far deeper than the GB2 on the gold it does detect. 

[phrunt]

Now you're talking my language, the GB2 Concentric on the Manticore would be great.  

I noticed no real difference at all with knock sensitivity between the initial firmware and the new one in my milder soil type, both were just as knock sensitive as each other for me, as Steve noted the GM1000 is very prone to knock sensitivity which can often be remedied quite a bit by just having a really good ground balance.  The Manticore seems the same, out of habit now I just balance regularly, I don't use tracking as my soils not variable enough so a ground balance when the knocking appears worse it's something that I do.

I now think a lot of the knocking I was experiencing was more the shaft problem than the knock sensitivity though, I'll find out next time I take it for a spin looking for gold now I'm aware of the shaft related problem.  Really looking forward to getting a non-conductive shaft for it though.

I always expected knock sensitivity with my Manticore so I didn't see it as an issue, it's just Minelab's cost of doing business, they make bump sensitive gold VLF's.  I guess people coming from something like the Garrett 24k that is immune to bump sensitivity or the GB2 even though it's the most sensitive detector available has none at all.  It would be rather annoying to go from that to the Manticore. 

I was conditioned to expect it after my GM1000 and Nox 800 🙂  It's not unusually bad though and something with time you get used to, I'd rather it didn't do it, but it's not something that is bad enough to make me not want to use it as the other benefits outweigh that negative and I'm expecting with a new shaft it will make it even less of an issue.

[Steve Herschbach]

1 minute ago, phrunt said:

I noticed no real difference at all with knock sensitivity between the initial firmware and the new one in my milder soil type, both were just as knock sensitive as each other for me

Well one idea down, good to know.

[Caliche]

On 6/9/2024 at 5:37 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

My smallest bit with 5x8 latest firmware is 0.016 grams or 0.24 grain. A flake really, not a nugget by the wildest stretch. Good sharp signal but less than an inch deep of course, solid centered 1 on target id.

0.016g is insane. I've had the M11 out once so far and found nothing but birdshot and 22 slugs, but the area is thick with weeds so it's hard to get the coil against the dirt.  Any settings recommendations for the M8 on flakes?  I'm not in a nugget zone, but there are tiny flakes.