Hot Or Not? Differences In Coils

[phrunt]

I'm a bit of a coil addict, I like trying and using various brands and types of coils.

I think more than anything the recent revelation with the Nugget Finder coils for the GPX Series being very inconsistent and random in their ability to work correctly on detectors like the Algoforce shows the inconsistent nature of coil manufacturing with some handmade coils. 

Coiltek seem to have avoided the problem entirely with their coils and calibration on the Algoforce so far, I've not heard of anyone having the same issues but perhaps their manufacturing methods are very different, I think they are from factory photos with their high-tech machinery that I recall seeing in the past.   I haven't heard of the problem with Detech coils either? Maybe someone has? 

The NF coils have been a bit of a luck of the draw, some Sadies work fine, some seem to work and calibrate fine but not perform as well as expected, and others just won't calibrate at all in ultra fine mode (the most sensitive) indicating an out of spec coil, the 12x8"s seem similar but for all sizes to be pulled from production it's likely more than just those two affected.  

It is really great Nugget Finder are reworking their coils to handle these more sensitive detectors, and it's said the new versions will work just as well on the originally intended detectors like the GPX 4500/5000 but at the same time will work better on the more sensitive detectors like the Algoforce and modded GPX's.  It's really good news NF decided they would continue making older GPX coils to give us a good range on the last of the detectors on the market to have a big range of plug and play coils, already over the past few years many models of GPX coil have been discontinued by manufacturers likely due to lack of demand, so selection of new GPX coils is already getting slim compared to years gone by. 

This begs the question, even though on the older GPX series like the 5000 the coils worked without even knowing about these inconsistencies that are now showing their faces with the newer detectors, were some hotter than others? did some work better than others in general and we just didn't know it or is it just because we're pushing the limits of the coil designs in their current form?

This goes for all brands too, are some coils really hotter than others of the exact same coil? I believe this to be the case but don't really know, it just seems that way.

It's likely the same with VLF coils too, the old Gold Bug 2's it was widely believed some people had hotter coils than others.

[flakmagnet]

23 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Coiltek seem to have avoided the problem entirely with their coils

Phrunt, I guess you may have missed the problems with Coiltek coils awhile back.
I know this personally because I took one of mine apart.
The most glaring problem - but not the only one - was that the wires were secured inside the coil with masking tape that, over time, dried out, disintegrated and caused unbelievable falsing. Falsing that made the coils totally unusable. 
I believe they now pot their wiring, but it is not correct to say Coiltek has avoided problems. 

If you are only talking about Coilteks recent coil incarnations and that's what you meant, it would be good to clarify.
I also admit to being biased. I have owned a ton of Nugget Finder coils and have never had one act badly in any way, and I"m hard on coils.

Not trying to start any drama, but it's important to understand that Coiltek has also had severe problems, it's not just Nugget Finder.

All the best....

[phrunt]

46 minutes ago, flakmagnet said:

Not trying to start any drama, but it's important to understand that Coiltek has also had severe problems, it's not just Nugget Finder.

Thanks Flak, yes, different problem, the problem I was talking about is the calibration issues with the more sensitive detectors like the Algoforce and just randomally unstable on the modded GPX's where the inconsistent manufacturing of coils is now showing its face that otherwise went unnoticed, whereby some coils of the exact same type take a Sadie for example calibrate and work fine, others calibrate but not work as well as expected and others fail calibration, all brand new purchased coils, yet put them on a GPX 4500 or 5000 standard detector and they work perfectly fine, but is their performance different to one that does calibrate and work fine on the Algoforce?

Not general faults with coils, every brand gets those, some more than others no doubt.  I'm not surprised that masking tape solution doesn't last, it's inside the Commanders too, tapes always going to dry out and fail at some point and I would think a bad idea to use.

I'm by no means saying the NF coils are bad in any way on the older GPX series, they've proven themselves for over a decade to be great coils, just wondering if this inconsistency can lead to some coils being hotter or better in some way than others.

I appreciate your comment as it clears up what I was trying to say.

[flakmagnet]

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

I'm by no means saying the NF coils are bad in any way on the older GPX series,

And, the NF 12" round coil is the go-to coil for the 7000 right now (if you don't want to void your detector with the X-coil solution).

[Guys gold]

I’ve had level 3 modded Detectronics for close to 4 yrs And the first level 4 to the USA.On modded detectors with Coiltek coils I can push the gain to about 50% and any thing under a 14” will go dead silent,swing it over a anvil and no response.NF coils on Level 4 detector these are a different beast,There are some you can push the frequency and the front end gain too far and they get noisy.Back them off just a bit they will quite down.Its not that they won’t find Gold,they will!Its that some coils don’t spread the gap so to speak.There are the lower serial number 12x8 that run better,but that’s not to say the higher serial numbers won’t find gold.And I have every size coil that NF makes even the Evo 24x12 that was not imported to the USA.But my opinion on this is the front end gain that people are tuning into these coils is not getting them that much depth just a lot of noise.”Trying to get to that 5 o’clock gain setting is a bit too far.If you can get there fine but I don’t think you gain much.

[Quick]

4 hours ago, phrunt said:

I'm a bit of a coil addict, I like trying and using various brands and types of coils.

I think more than anything the recent revelation with the Nugget Finder coils for the GPX Series being very inconsistent and random in their ability to work correctly on detectors like the Algoforce shows the inconsistent nature of coil manufacturing with some handmade coils. 

Coiltek seem to have avoided the problem entirely with their coils and so far, I've not heard of anyone having the same issues but perhaps their manufacturing methods are very different, I think they are from factory photos with their high-tech machinery that I recall seeing in the past.   I haven't heard of the problem with Detech coils either? Maybe someone has? 

The NF coils have been a bit of a luck of the draw, some Sadies work fine, some seem to work and calibrate fine but not perform as well as expected, and others just won't calibrate at all in ultra fine mode (the most sensitive) indicating an out of spec coil, the 12x8"s seem similar but for all sizes to be pulled from production it's likely more than just those two affected.  

It is really great Nugget Finder are reworking their coils to handle these more sensitive detectors, and it's said the new versions will work just as well on the originally intended detectors like the GPX 4500/5000 but at the same time will work better on the more sensitive detectors like the Algoforce and modded GPX's.  It's really good news NF decided they would continue making older GPX coils to give us a good range on the last of the detectors on the market to have a big range of plug and play coils, already over the past few years many models of GPX coil have been discontinued by manufacturers likely due to lack of demand, so selection of new GPX coils is already getting slim compared to years gone by. 

This begs the question, even though on the older GPX series like the 5000 the coils worked without even knowing about these inconsistencies that are now showing their faces with the newer detectors, were some hotter than others? did some work better than others in general and we just didn't know it or is it just because we're pushing the limits of the coil designs in their current form?

This goes for all brands too, are some coils really hotter than others of the exact same coil? I believe this to be the case but don't really know, it just seems that way.

It's likely the same with VLF coils too, the old Gold Bug 2's it was widely believed some people had hotter coils than others.

You’re all over the place with this post? You start up with NF and end with GB coils? Probably the worst coils that I have used are the Coiltek Gold Stalker series. 
Do you have any videos or links to sources to back up your statements? If not I’m going to file this away with all the invisible nuggets we all talked about back in the day…

[phrunt]

39 minutes ago, Quick said:

You’re all over the place with this post? You start up with NF and end with GB coils? Probably the worst coils that I have used are the Coiltek Gold Stalker series. 
Do you have any videos or links to sources to back up your statements? If not I’m going to file this away with all the invisible nuggets we all talked about back in the day…

It's a query asking about it, not a statement.  It was asking about coils in general not any specific brand although NF was used as an example as they've had some issues of late with their coils running on some detectors that push them beyond what they were designed to do, but some coils do work better than others in this scenario where some work and some don't of the exact same model, so that inconsistency may cause some coils to perform better than others.

 VLF coils may exhibit the same traits where some get hot ones and some don't, and yes, the GB2 was an example of this as I've read people saying they have had hotter GB2 coils in the past, Whites was another example with the VLF coils where some thought they had hotter than others. 

It's more a question of consistency between coils and performance, not which brand of coils someone likes best which somehow the question is turning into.

You want a video to back up what? Why do you think NF pulled their coils? for the fun of it? They pulled them as they want to improve them for this very reason, and I applaud them for doing that, better coils will be available soon and that's great.

[Quick]

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

It's a query asking about it, not a statement.  It was asking about coils in general not any specific brand although NF was used as an example as they've had some issues of late with their coils running on some detectors that push them beyond what they were designed to do, but some coils do work better than others in this scenario where some work and some don't of the exact same model, so that inconsistency may cause some coils to perform better than others.

 VLF coils may exhibit the same traits where some get hot ones and some don't, and yes, the GB2 was an example of this as I've read people saying they have had hotter GB2 coils in the past, Whites was another example with the VLF coils where some thought they had hotter than others. 

It's more a question of consistency between coils and performance, not which brand of coils someone likes best which somehow the question is turning into.

You want a video to back up what? Why do you think NF pulled their coils? for the fun of it? They pulled them as they want to improve them for this very reason, and I applaud them for doing that, better coils will be available soon and that's great.

A video to back up the inconsistencies you talk about. 
 

Do have proof that NF “pulled” their coils due to inconsistencies? I think not, so off you go into the invisible nugget pile.

[1515Art]

Simon, I’ve had trouble with two of the Minelab 6000 coils the 17” was very touch sensitive minelab replaced it with a new one no problems after that and the original stock round mono coil cracks in the ears also replaced without further issue.

I’ve also had two NF coils the 12” on the 7000 and the NF 6000 coil both of those have been fantastic coils smooth running good sensitivity. My stock 7000 coil was without issues and my coiltek gold hawk for the 6000 has been trouble free. 
 

All 3 of my axiom coils have also been trouble free, and seem to perform as expected.