Pinpointers

[Geotech]

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

I asked @Geotech about that once, it sounds like a no go, the DD coil is required for Target ID's, bit hard to do with a pinpointer I believe.  I can't exactly remember what he told me.   It'd have to look something like a pulse dive with a little coil on it 🙂  Although they have done iron discrimination and it works remarkably well on some pinpointers.

Don't recall what we were talking about, but a VLF pinpointer can give a TID. The White's TRX is basically a super-shrunk MXT so it could do it. The plan after the V3 was to add wireless to the TRX and have it broadcast its response to the V4 and the V4 would display it on the screen. If you open a TRX there is a white socket on the PCB where the wireless module plugs in.

[phrunt]

7 minutes ago, Geotech said:

Don't recall what we were talking about, but a VLF pinpointer can give a TID. The White's TRX is basically a super-shrunk MXT so it could do it. The plan after the V3 was to add wireless to the TRX and have it broadcast its response to the V4 and the V4 would display it on the screen. If you open a TRX there is a white socket on the PCB where the wireless module plugs in.

I can't recall, it was a long time ago, thanks for the clarification that's why I called you in 🙂

I wish more effort would be put into pin pointers by manufacturers, this is a clear example of how they could take them a lot further yet.

[Knomad]

Sounds to me like an opportunity for Garrett.

A new TRX with target I.D and a wireless link, Accurate target I.D on any good pinpointer is a winner.!

[Geotech]

Not much money to be made in pinpointers, especially when they need to sell for $79.

[Knomad]

One of the few times I disagree with Geotech. 

I think you meant to say They Should Sell for $79, reality is they often sell for twice that, and must be really cheap to produce.

[pavelka72]

5 hours ago, Knomad said:

One of the few times I disagree with Geotech. 

I think you meant to say They Should Sell for $79, reality is they often sell for twice that, and must be really cheap to produce.

He said that they have to sell for $79 (you understand that we are not talking about the price for the buyer)

[Geotech]

No, I'm saying that the street price for pinpointers is headed to sub-$100 prices. No one wants to continue paying $150 for a pinpointer when they can buy a decent full-featured metal detector for just a little more than that. So no manufacturer is going to develop a new pinpointer expecting to maintain a $150 price point.

Yes, pinpointers are fairly cheap to produce, especially the very simple ones. To hit a $79 street price ($99 MSRP @ 80% MAP) you need to have a total production cost (components, labor, overhead) of $25. The Garrett Pro Pointer might be able to achieve this, but the White's TRX was almost twice this. It's a far more complex IB design that's harder to make, but it's what's needed for TID.

So the question is, is there a market for a wireless TID pinpointer at $150-200? Maybe, but I suspect it's a small market when other pinpointers are headed to half that price. It was a more viable plan back when average PP prices were closer to $200.

[phrunt]

Disappointing to hear, but makes a lot of sense.  You can't get much more simple than most pin pointers on the market.  Some have taken the giant leap and done discrimination where as most haven't.  Some are more sensitive than others, others slightly deeper.  

Tones would be nice on a pin pointer more than ID's I think, with tone ranges.  I like the Sphinx has a red light on the back of it for iron and the light goes green for non-ferrous.  It's the most feature rich pin pointer I've got, consequently the best too.

From there I drop right back in features to the Garrett AT being my second favourite, a very basic pin pointer but it just works very well and is reliable, set it and forget it.  

I always thought pin pointers were kept so simple due to their user interface, a button or two with a bunch of crazy button configurations to try and configure it where unless you configure it often you need to do it sitting in front of the manual.  That's where the Sphinx phone app comes into play, makes configuration simple.

Another method manufacturers could use is the pin pointer connects to the detector, and is setup using the detector display, it keeps people brand loyal, a bit like the XP Mi-6 and Garrett AT Zynk, then again so few detectors have a good enough screen capable of doing this, Minelab could do it with the Manticore though if they made a decent Pro-Find 245, I have to jump up so high in the numbers as they will need to go through a lot of generations of pin pointers before they get one good enough for that 🙂

I don't mind paying good money for a decent product, I wonder how it goes with brands like Minelab where they make a bunch of the same pinpointers with features disabled on lower models like the Pro-Find 15, 25, 35, 45, if the 45's the best seller maybe there is a market for a higher price better model.  If most buy the 15 then we have no hope.

 

[Knomad]

13 hours ago, Geotech said:

No, I'm saying that the street price for pinpointers is headed to sub-$100 prices. No one wants to continue paying $150 for a pinpointer when they can buy a decent full-featured metal detector for just a little more than that. So no manufacturer is going to develop a new pinpointer expecting to maintain a $150 price point.

That make more sense. But then again many pay 4 to 9 grand for detectors, so a couple hundred for the best pinpointer is no big deal, IF it truly is better.

I don't care much about the wireless, especially if it only works with one detector brand, so it makes more sense to concentrate on depth, and sensitivity performance, and accurate ferrous non ferrous I.D.  It appears the Sphinx is now the top dog.  It seems a series of LEDS of different colors showing probability of iron would be the way to go.