Stork Shaft

[bklein]

I’ve come across a shaft for the Manticore and others called the Stork.  It has a smaller diameter so it travels through the water easier. Made of CF though. I don’t see a FG one available.  Seems like that would be the ticket for us beach hunting guys.

[Chase Goldman]

Actually it is called the Stork Leg shaft, is available for Nox and Manticore and can be found here (not an endorsement):

https://treasuretechusa.com/collections/all

[F350Platinum]

I mentioned this shaft back in 2021:

I was considering it for my Equinox 600, but then SteveG came out with a CF camo shaft, and it was all over 🥰 

Kellyco doesn't seem to have it anymore, so I would use Chase's link. 🤔

🍀

[bklein]

Wonder how much of an issue the CF is, given the diameter is half the normal.

[Chase Goldman]

1 hour ago, bklein said:

Wonder how much of an issue the CF is, given the diameter is half the normal.

Despite the demonstrated issues associated with CF shafts creating noise on detectors tuned to the ragged edge for gold prospecting, these issues appear to be less of a factor for less aggressive detector settings used for coin shooting and other similar situations and especially for salt water detecting where the detector is set to cancel the salt signal which also happens to be where most micro gold shows up and where the CF shaft (regardless of diameter) can create issues.  The CF Stork Leg shaft is designed to lessen swing resistance in water so if you limit its use to those conditions, it should generally be a non-issue.

The shaft diameter (size) really has no significant bearing on whether you are more or less likely to pick up the conductive CF shaft signal if you are thinking of it from the perspective of a big or small target.  But the shaft stiffness can be a factor.  If the thinner shaft has less stiffness that creates more relative motion between the coil and the shaft pivot point in the water, that could be an issue but I see that as unlikely. Bump sensitivity and noise created when a prospector pivots the coil against the shaft to recover targets are the greatest concerns when using CF shafts and those issues are present and annoying regardless of the diameter of the CF shaft when running a detector on the ragged edge for gold prospecting.  For these reasons, plus durability, not really the shaft you want to have detecting in rugged terrain, especially if you are after small gold.  However, as I said previously, these are not really concerns when water hunting.  Especially in salt water where the most stable settings tend to cancel micro-gold targets anyway and which is where the CF shaft causes the most issues (typically in the gold prospecting mode running hot which cannot be used in submerged salt and wet salt sand conditions, anyway, because of stability).  

Bottom Line: The reduced fatigue this shaft brings to the water hunter overrides any concerns about using CF in the conditions intended.  Not sure that a glass fiber shaft has the material properties that would provide sufficient strength and stiffness in this form factor when faced  with the hydrodynamic stress environment of submerged water hunting.  Someone with experience working with both shaft materials like @steveg could answer that question better than I.

[steveg]

Chase,

I would agree that at similar tube-wall thicknesses, a fiberglass tube in the water would be more flexible than a carbon fiber tube.  The other thing is that a smaller-diameter tube of any material will be more flexible than a larger-diameter tube of the same wall thickness.  Think of things like fishing rods and golf club shafts -- they "taper" for a reason.  You want more flex near the "end" of a fishing rod or golf club shaft, and they gradually "taper" to smaller diameter to allow this extra "flex" at the end of the "shaft."

So, while a smaller-diameter tube DOES cut down on hydrodynamic drag, it is also more flexible, relative to a larger-diameter tube.  As such, if you want to design a "thin" shaft, to cut through the water better, you'd want to focus on a very "stiff" material, and fiberglass does not fit that bill as well as other materials.  Not that you couldn't use fiberglass, but it does have more "flex" than some other materials.

Steve

 

[TampaBayBrad]

6 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Despite the demonstrated issues associated with CF shafts creating noise on detectors tuned to the ragged edge for gold prospecting, these issues appear to be less of a factor for less aggressive detector settings used for coin shooting and other similar situations and especially for salt water detecting where the detector is set to cancel the salt signal which also happens to be where most micro gold shows up and where the CF shaft (regardless of diameter) can create issues.  The CF Stork Leg shaft is designed to lessen swing resistance in water so if you limit its use to those conditions, it should generally be a non-issue.

The shaft diameter (size) really has no significant bearing on whether you are more or less likely to pick up the conductive CF shaft signal if you are thinking of it from the perspective of a big or small target.  But the shaft stiffness can be a factor.  If the thinner shaft has less stiffness that creates more relative motion between the coil and the shaft pivot point in the water, that could be an issue but I see that as unlikely. Bump sensitivity and noise created when a prospector pivots the coil against the shaft to recover targets are the greatest concerns when using CF shafts and those issues are present and annoying regardless of the diameter of the CF shaft when running a detector on the ragged edge for gold prospecting.  For these reasons, plus durability, not really the shaft you want to have detecting in rugged terrain, especially if you are after small gold.  However, as I said previously, these are not really concerns when water hunting.  Especially in salt water where the most stable settings tend to cancel micro-gold targets anyway and which is where the CF shaft causes the most issues (typically in the gold prospecting mode running hot which cannot be used in submerged salt and wet salt sand conditions, anyway, because of stability).  

Bottom Line: The reduced fatigue this shaft brings to the water hunter overrides any concerns about using CF in the conditions intended.  Not sure that a glass fiber shaft has the material properties that would provide sufficient strength and stiffness in this form factor when faced  with the hydrodynamic stress environment of submerged water hunting.  Someone with experience working with both shaft materials like @steveg could answer that question better than I.

 

3 hours ago, steveg said:

Chase,

I would agree that at similar tube-wall thicknesses, a fiberglass tube in the water would be more flexible than a carbon fiber tube.  The other thing is that a smaller-diameter tube of any material will be more flexible than a larger-diameter tube of the same wall thickness.  Think of things like fishing rods and golf club shafts -- they "taper" for a reason.  You want more flex near the "end" of a fishing rod or golf club shaft, and they gradually "taper" to smaller diameter to allow this extra "flex" at the end of the "shaft."

So, while a smaller-diameter tube DOES cut down on hydrodynamic drag, it is also more flexible, relative to a larger-diameter tube.  As such, if you want to design a "thin" shaft, to cut through the water better, you'd want to focus on a very "stiff" material, and fiberglass does not fit that bill as well as other materials.  Not that you couldn't use fiberglass, but it does have more "flex" than some other materials.

Steve

 

Glad we have you 2 guys on this forum......

[TampaBayBrad]

I have a carbon tall boy stork leg for water hunting and love it. I have used some waterproof duct tape to secure the coil wire to one SIDE of the shaft at 4 different spots rather than wrap it around to try to minimize drag. As it turns out, you couldn't wrap the wire anyway because with a tall boy shaft there is just enough wire to reach the housing with no wraps anyway. 

Works great....

[Fazahir_Aza]

I would agree