WOW! Axiom Drops $1000 For 2025!!

[Steve Herschbach]

6 hours ago, Joe D. said:

Exactly Ron! A waterproof version could be easily done by Garrett, in my opinion! Nothing extensive, 10 ft would be fine! With the recent price drop, I would buy one immediately!

  My TDI SL's are doing an OK job, but one good wave, drop, or stumble, and it would most likely be toast! Also, Algoforce has had requests, and time, to make a waterproof verson, before it hits the states! And no doubt, Nokta's PI will come out of the gate waterproof already; so theirs that!🍀👍👍

The problem I think is that with the advent of good waterproof multi models, the manufacturers do not think that waterproof PI has any real market. A niche market within a niche market. The key is the unit has to be good at everything. Water, nuggets, relics, etc. Making a waterproof beach only detector like the Impulse AQ was a losing game before they even started. Look at Minelab - they have never bothered to make a real beach PI and they are the kings of PI. It has to be because they are not seeing the numbers, and if it is for beach use only, I totally agree.

Garrett is discontinuing the ATX which basically leaves us with nothing. The SDC and Impulse AQ don't count. The SDC is really a pure nugget detector and Impulse beach only. I doubt Garrett will do a waterproof Axiom, so it is up to Nokta now to pull that rabbit out of the hat - a true do it all above water and under affordable PI. Rock the PI world the way Equinox rocked the VLF world. It's really the last mountain left unclimbed in metal detector land.

[Steve Herschbach]

3 hours ago, Gold Catcher said:

Getting to new ground is the most important factor, and away from easy access by car. Once a patch has been mined with the 6000 and 7000, there won't be anything left to find with a lower cost detector, unless the operator was not thorough. Conversely, a rich new patch can successfully be mined with a lower cost PI, at least initially. But be aware of those 6000/7000 guys, be there first.

GC

I totally agree, but as a long time dealer I can tell you a couple basic facts. First, most people are buying the dream and do less detecting than 90% of the people on this forum. Second, if you work a retail counter, the vast majority of people scoff at detectors like the 6000 and 7000 because the majority will never - never - spend that kind of money on a detector. Here people are the elite of the elite but that is not who buys the bulk of detectors worldwide. Just look at what sells on Amazon. There were a lot of White's TDI models sold even though it was no powerhouse and the reason is simple. People could afford to buy it. Long story short solid performing PI detectors at or under $2000 will tap into a very large market. Yeah the Axiom is not a 6000 but plenty of people still find gold with detectors even less powerful. Any dealer that can't sell the Axiom at $1999 needs to take some sales classes.

[phrunt]

I wonder how many Algoforce sell compared to 6000's at the moment, sure they are not as good but they are priced for the masses, people that would never consider spending as much to buy a 6000 are buying them, I've seen it often on the Algoforce social media groups.  Still to this day they've never had stock on their website.

I expect Axioms will be flying off the shelves now too.

[Jonathan Porter]

 

4 hours ago, phrunt said:

What these cheaper PI's will do is bring more boots onto the ground, the more people exploring around the more gold will be found regardless of how well those doing it think they've cleaned it up.  

I've found gold in some silly places, places where those more experienced likely wouldn't focus their time, to experts it's beginners luck, when really it's exploring ground others haven't and these new cheap PI's will bring in plenty of beginners luck situations.  

I don't believe you need to use the best detector to find gold, you do however need to put in the time and effort and those that do with the Algo, Axiom or Nokta will be successful just like the many still successful with the older GPX and even VLF's

So it’s not all doom and gloom on the gold Frunt now? That’s a relief I was starting to worry this forum was becoming a bit of a museum for reflecting on the good old days, that the goldfields are fully played out and technology has reached it inevitable limit. Clearly Garrett, Algo and Nokta think there is a market there for a highly sensitive low cost OK performing PI, seems to be plenty of evidence of people having successes with them in these so called played out goldfields. Maybe the goldfields are only played out for older metal detectors with the Minelab Logo on them? I need to order some Garrett or Algo stickers ASAP. 😂 That is a silly tongue in cheek joke BTW before anyone gets their brand name feathers ruffled. 😊 

I get two things from this thread and others like it, everyone wants Minelab to have some competition and clearly a cheaper machine would fit that bill to compensate for any performance differences, that makes perfect sense. Ergonomics and light weight are important, so far all players have demonstrated they can deliver. Small target sensitivity? That seems to have been addressed relative to the soils being worked. Water proof? Not such a big deal in my world but the market will dictate that with sales. Discrim? Well that one is a curly one because mineralisation, PI and good Discrim don’t play well together, it’s an unfortunate fact but explains why there isn’t one on the extremely sensitive 6000.

We all know Minelab have the ability to knock all the other players out of the park, they’ve demonstrated an incredible maturity in their detector designs in recent years and of course their electronics are still king, so they can easily make something to fit the niche that is clearly begging for attention by the many here. I’m not a fan of the Algo model of a customer having to buy themselves a battery and coils etc its a nice way to dodge warranty and transport issues on batteries and coils but it isn’t for everyone, even if the dealer steps up and builds up the package for you. I think the Axiom is a much nicer package in that regard and justifies a higher price tag along with it.

Food for thought though, don’t be in too big a hurry to knock Minelab down, their huge investment in tech is what’s driving the world demand for all the other players in the game. Year after year after year of outstanding successes with these expensive Minelab detector’s is what gets tongues wagging on social media etc, good news stories of big nuggets found around the world is what drives demand which then creates opportunity for everyone, so I think caution is needed in what we wish for. 🤔 

My take from all this is there is room for competition and based on the results of the people taking up the options of using the very sensitive less powerful cheaper packages is there is still plenty of gold to be had, that’s my glass is always half full look at it. 👀 But hey I’m a just a simple prospector and positivity is tattooed in my DNA. 😊 There’s plenty of time to reflect on the good old days when I’m under the sod. 😊 Now I have a flogged out patch I want to go over just one more time, there has to be a bit of gold still laying around there somewhere or maybe up the hill a little bit or………  

JP

[Gold Catcher]

The more people are being able to afford quality machines the better it will be for the detecting market as a whole, regardless which company. If more people get enthusiastic about actually finding gold with an affordable PI, then even companies like ML could benefit from this trend in the long run. Why? Because we all know that once the goldbug kicks in you will spend more and more money on equipment and on better and more expensive machines. Whether this is justified or not for your personal situation is a different question, but this is the trend with all "hobby-addictions" and is also marketed that way. I know it is a long stretch to think that way, but I truly believe that gold prospecting still has a bright future, also in the US, and so much gold is still in the ground. You just need to go the extra mile, literally. 🙂

GC

[RONS DETECTORS MINELAB]

30 minutes ago, Joe D. said:

Exactly Ron! A waterproof version could be easily done by Garrett, in my opinion! Nothing extensive, 10 ft would be fine! With the recent price drop, I would buy one immediately!

  My TDI SL's are doing an OK job, but one good wave, drop, or stumble, and it would most likely be toast! Also, Algoforce has had requests, and time, to make a waterproof verson, before it hits the states! And no doubt, Nokta's PI will come out of the gate waterproof already; so theirs that!🍀👍👍

I have taken many bodily beatings trying to keep my high end investments pI detectors above water when slipping and not using both my arms to break the fall on river crossings and when working on slippery bedrock slopes. 

I really enjoy using a waterproof VLF’s where I can get away with It, but we have primarily serpentine rivers and black sand beaches where I detect,  so having a PI is a must.
Having a lower priced PI detector is now a little more comforting in the case one does eventually gets dunked. But better yet is what you mentioned about Nokta is working on making a low cost waterproof PI and that should cover most my bases and also sell well.  I have also mentioned to a couple of companies that the sea ghost system could be adapted to fit their current PI models.

[Jonathan Porter]

6 minutes ago, Gold Catcher said:

The more people are being able to afford quality machines the better it will be for the detecting market as a whole, regardless which company. If more people get enthusiastic about actually finding gold with an affordable PI, then even companies like ML could benefit from this trend in the long run. Why? Because we all know that once the goldbug kicks in you will spend more and more money on equipment and on better and more expensive machines. Whether this is justified or not for your personal situation is a different question, but this is the trend with all "hobby-addictions" and is also marketed that way. I know it is a long stretch to think that way, but I truly believe that gold prospecting still has a bright future, also in the US, and so much gold is still in the ground. You just need to go the extra mile, literally. 🙂

GC

I largely agree but something has to drive the demand and huge investment in R&D to keep pushing the performance barriers, currently it’s the overpriced Minelab’s doing all the heavy lifting. The gold detector industry needs Minelab just like a reefing gold field needs a big miner to dewater the ground so all the smaller miners can play, if the big miner stops pumping everyone gets flooded out and then they are forced to stop mining. 

If Minelab brought out a low cost underperforming PI how do you think the market would accept that? Other brands are getting a free ride off the successes of Minelab’s expensive detector’s back, but I seriously doubt Minelab would get away with it. There’s an expectation for anything with the Minelab brand on it to really perform, the one exception is the GoldMonster but it’s a freak because it’s hit the sweet spot for simplicity, ergonomics and at release flew off the crazy successes of its same branded bigger brother machines. Plus the GM really is a sweetie VLF 😊 

JP

 

[Gold Catcher]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Porter said:

I largely agree but something has to drive the demand and huge investment in R&D to keep pushing the performance barriers, currently it’s the overpriced Minelab’s doing all the heavy lifting. The gold detector industry needs Minelab just like a reefing gold field needs a big miner to dewater the ground so all the smaller miners can play, if the big miner stops pumping everyone gets flooded out and then they are forced to stop mining. 

If Minelab brought out a low cost underperforming PI how do you think the market would accept that? Other brands are getting a free ride off the successes of Minelab’s expensive detector’s back, but I seriously doubt Minelab would get away with it. There’s an expectation for anything with the Minelab brand on it to really perform, the one exception is the GoldMonster but it’s a freak because it’s hit the sweet spot for simplicity, ergonomics and at release flew off the crazy successes of its same branded bigger brother machines. Plus the GM really is a sweetie VLF 😊 

JP

Agreed, JP. I don't think anybody seriously doubts that ML has the best detector technology and has been the most innovative in this field over the past decades. Codan's ML segment is still a strong performer as based on their half-year 2024 report. To remain a market leader, they need to continue driving the R&D engine and I remain hopeful that more is coming. The price/performance metrics just needs to be balanced with the consumer demand. If the word is that a 4k cheaper detector can essentially do the same, then this might be a challenge. Whether this word is right or wrong is a different matter altogether, and perhaps not even that evident for the uninitiated, at least not initially.

GC

[Norvic]

2 hours ago, Jonathan Porter said:

So it’s not all doom and gloom on the gold Frunt now? That’s a relief I was starting to worry this forum was becoming a bit of a museum for reflecting on the good old days,

Aye it certainly seemed that way to me too. Nothing has really changed in the gold detecting scene in 50 plus years since it started (except for detector and vehicle capabilities), to find a new patch and thus put weight in your pocket you searched for these patches, with the advent of the PIs and ZVT many more patches were found at depth close in to those early detecting patches, now they are depleted it is necessary as it was originally to do the hard foot work and score on new ground or flog old patches for an odd scrap. Whether your using an Axiom, Algoforce, 6K, Z be assured it is far superior, quieter and more capable than those detectors of old we started this crazy gold rush with. Be hungry, take a "teaspoon of cement" for brekky 😉 get them legs working and arms swinging.  

This truism is as old as gold detecting and probably as old as the gold man first found. Tis where tis.