Chase Goldman Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 12 minutes ago, JCR said: A bit off the main OP subject but after reading @Geotech revised ITMD3, I am beginning to understand that "mineralization" is not one size fits all. We tend to concentrate on Magnetite (Fe3O4) like Black Sand since it is what the various Mineralization meters of detectors displays. This is certainly applicable to many users hunting Gold nuggets or beaches with Black Sand. But many other users, @Chase Goldman @Daniel Tn hunt in a different mineralization, Maghemite (Fe2O3). This is the devil in Red Dirt soil, and it is different, and so is the way that a detector behaves/responds to deeper targets. Not many units can even begin to address this situation past 6 inches on coin size targets. This has been my focus on my relic sites. Good point. I now have my copy of ITMD3 and will dig into it soon. I guess if there is one thing that I sm curious about with Tarsacci Mk2 is whether Dimitar has thought about that difference and whether he has a better process for setting up the Tarsacci Mk 2 salt balance and black sand settings to attack these different hot sand/dirt scenarios. 2 Link to comment https://www.detectorprospector.com/topic/27532-opinions-wanted/page/3/#findComment-289118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Herschbach Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 hours ago, JCR said: A bit off the main OP subject but after reading @Geotech revised ITMD3, I am beginning to understand that "mineralization" is not one size fits all. We tend to concentrate on Magnetite (Fe3O4) like Black Sand since it is what the various Mineralization meters of detectors displays. This is certainly applicable to many users hunting Gold nuggets or beaches with Black Sand. But many other users, @Chase Goldman @Daniel Tn hunt in a different mineralization, Maghemite (Fe2O3). This is the devil in Red Dirt soil, and it is different, and so is the way that a detector behaves/responds to deeper targets. Not many units can even begin to address this situation past 6 inches on coin size targets. This has been my focus on my relic sites. With all due respect to Carl, I delve into this in far greater detail at the link above. FYI the color of the dirt does not differentiate whether it’s magnetite or maghemite based as both are iron mineralization and turn soils red. It’s more related to the age of the soil with recent deposits comprised of magnetite, which eventually decomposes into maghemite soils. Australia, being ancient terrain, is more maghemite that magnetite, as are the Culpeper region deposits. Most of the U.S. is younger and more magnetite based deposits. My California sepentite magnetite rich soils are every bit as red as the Culpeper and Australian soils. In my experience placer concentrated dense magnetite is the worst stuff, as it’s actually highly magnetic by nature whereas maghemite is generally non-magnetic until an electromagnetic field is applied by a metal detector. In other words drop a magnet into magnetite you get a lump, into maghemite little or nothing. That’s not to say that maghemite soils can’t get really bad for a metal detector, especially with larger coils, just that eluvial processes tend to concentrate magnetite to more extreme levels at many locations. Beaches in particular. Pretty much like detecting through an iron plate and will shut even a PI down at its worst. I have ground where a GPX 6000 and GPZ 7000 will not ground balance at any setting or sensitivity level. Ironically less powerful PI models work better as they are running lower transmit levels and so are able to ground balance better. The GPX 5000, for instance, is far more capable of working in those locations. My Axiom is borderline, in locations where a TDI or Infinium run much cleaner. This U.S. magnetite issue is also mentioned by Bruce Candy in the attached link but occurs many places around the world, very common on volcanic islands. The Deus 2 out of box is easier to run in extreme ground. Beware running the Manticore at its most powerful as it’s more prone to blowback and shutdown issues due to its overdriven design. And thumbs up for Daniel on the T2/F75 in bad ground. Best VLF true all metal circuit I ever used in bad ground, better than the hotter 19 kHz models as long as the target has any size. Multis that incorporate higher frequencies as part of the mix run into issues in the worst ground, kind of like the high strung PI models. But again big differences depending on whether it’s maghemite or magnetite that is causing the problem. Dense magnetite kills single frequency VLF faster than normal maghemite, with target id first to go. I’ve seen single frequency detectors call a brass shell casing sitting on surface as ferrous in bad magnetite. 4 2 Link to comment https://www.detectorprospector.com/topic/27532-opinions-wanted/page/3/#findComment-289124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCR Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 An excellent prior Thread I have read before, but now has better meaning with more experience & understanding thanks to @Geotech explanation of Viscous magnetic response/ Viscous Remanence Magnetization, page 54-56 ITMD3. 2 Link to comment https://www.detectorprospector.com/topic/27532-opinions-wanted/page/3/#findComment-289126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCR Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 @D&P-OR Sorry for detouring you question somewhat. @Chase Goldman has the answer. It depends on each individuals site & Ground conditions. Interesting discussion. Link to comment https://www.detectorprospector.com/topic/27532-opinions-wanted/page/3/#findComment-289127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff McClendon Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 The OP’s second post referencing he and is wife, the Deus 2 with 9” coil and referencing coin/relic hunting in mineralized ground in his first post make it clear that they like to hunt together often and would probably like to be able to easily do “detector talk” about the same detector instead of having to transpose and translate information on the fly. So, Manticore with 9” coil and Deus 2 with 9” coil is probably the best way to approach this comparison. At least for me, swinging the Manticore with M8, M9 and M11 coils is very easy and nicely balanced for a person my age (69 almost). Swinging Deus 2 with its 9” coil is very comfortable. Swinging the 11” coil is okay and swinging the 13X11” coil on anything but flat ground is not okay. So I am going to talk about the M9 versus FMF9 coils and what I have experienced using them on Fe3O4 highly mineralized ground for coin and relic hunting. Like others, I trust Deus 2 with 9” coil to currently be the first choice for hunting for those targets in man-made iron infested sites for shallow to 6” or so non-ferrous targets if the user knows how to set it up for higher iron mineralized conditions. For the same coils on deeper targets in that situation, I would pick the Manticore with M9. At least for me, that coil is deeper than the FMF9 and the Manticore is more likely to hit deeper than 6” non ferrous coins/relics with better audio and target ID information where I detect in Colorado. The same happens for just trying to get a beep dig response on edge of response targets. I would trust the M9 over the FMF9 for that type of detecting too. If XP releases the HF2 elliptical coil soon, all of this may change. Like a couple of other posters, I mostly choose my Manticore for the type of coin, relic and jewelry hunting I do over Deus 2 with 9” or larger coil. I do often take Deus 2 to parks that I have hit hard with the Manticore and I usually find some non ferrous targets. The same goes for the opposite scenario. They are both awesome detectors that can be used in so many ways with so many different setups including in multiple single frequencies. At least out here in higher Fe3O4 ground, the T2/F75 type detectors are basically useless on targets deeper than 4” other than beep/dig. People can’t give those great detectors or lesser models away since no one will take them after using these latest SMF tech detectors that mostly also have similar single frequency operation capabilities. 3 Link to comment https://www.detectorprospector.com/topic/27532-opinions-wanted/page/3/#findComment-289131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
midalake Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 My friend who is a serious lifelong dirt hunter used the D2 for two years and came from the D1 being his primary detector. Now, the D2 has been in a closet for Two years and the Manticore is the primary. So there is that. Link to comment https://www.detectorprospector.com/topic/27532-opinions-wanted/page/3/#findComment-289133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Goldman Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 44 minutes ago, midalake said: My friend who is a serious lifelong dirt hunter used the D2 for two years and came from the D1 being his primary detector. Now, the D2 has been in a closet for Two years. So there is that. So he went back to the Deus 1? The D2 has only been on the street for 3 years (Jan 2022), so if he used it for 2 years, just wondering how it also ended up in the closet for 2 years since that total time exceeds the time the D2 has been on the streets. Maybe I just misunderstood your post. I can see D2 getting displaced for the Manticore, but I am never seriously considering going back to a single frequency machine at this point. My D1 has not seen relic dirt in 3 years. If he's looking for micro gold, then that move makes a lityle more sense, though the D2 user interface and other useful operational features would make it hard for me to go back to the tiny D1 remote and it's terrible buttons. Link to comment https://www.detectorprospector.com/topic/27532-opinions-wanted/page/3/#findComment-289134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
midalake Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 3 hours ago, Chase Goldman said: So he went back to the Deus 1? The D2 has only been on the street for 3 years (Jan 2022), so if he used it for 2 years, just wondering how it also ended up in the closet for 2 years since that total time exceeds the time the D2 has been on the streets. Maybe I just misunderstood your post. I cleaned my post some. I was doing rounding. He was one of the first to receive the D2 in Mexico. Also fast to get the Manticore which he has been using for two seasons already. He sold his D1 as soon as he got the D2. His D2 has been in a closet since his Manticore. We both had D2's for about two years and did lots of comparison testing! 2 Link to comment https://www.detectorprospector.com/topic/27532-opinions-wanted/page/3/#findComment-289157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneck Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 I have used the manticore for 2 seasons, and the D2 for one season. I love them both , and will not part with either! I am a park coin hunter. I use the D2 with Rattleheads silver coin notch program, and the manticore with a version of Iffy signals audio tone notch system. The soil in the upper midwest is mid mineralized soil. I tend to get a bit of better depth with the manticore setup, using 9" coils on both machines. But its noisier due to the notch tone audio program I use. Also it does like iron a bit better. The D2 is amazing in picking out coins in heavy trash, and I find more coins per hour with that notch set up. Also that set up does not miss much. The D2 is a bit lighter, which my 66 yr old arm likes better. I choose which machine I'm going to use when I pull up to the site. I have gone over the exact same area with the 2nd machine , numerous times to see if the first machine missed anything. I tend to detect a tighter grid , overlapping a bit. Each time Im amazed how little I find on the second search. But I usually find a coin or two. I always bring both detectors and accessories along when I head out. I could not part with either detector! 9 Link to comment https://www.detectorprospector.com/topic/27532-opinions-wanted/page/3/#findComment-289190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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