Detecting Iffy Sounds/Weak Signals, Ground Noise, What to Expect – Gold?

[Gerry in Idaho]

JP - That's interesting to know about your testing results of High Yield being deeper on all sizes of gold.  As you know, those comments will open up more discussions, which is perfect and what I enjoy seeing.  I especially take notice when coming from those who've spent the time in the field and can back it up.

As for why I decided to run General Gold Mode vs the High Yield Mode, was when I read the Minelab GPZ-7000 literature they provide and show us a picture graph see below.  Also, it tells us typical sizes and best Modes for such sizes. 

 

Am I not reading it correctly, or was there and error in the chart?

Again, I'm not disputing your testing at all and in fact would believe it vs a chart made up by someone I don't know, probably those really smart Engineer guys who are really book smart and really not good at swinging said product in the field.

Norvic - I also enjoy your input on Ground Balance Mode being Manual.  Just so we are making sure all those reading this are aware, when GB Mode is Manual, the detector operates just as it says and the Ground Balance procedure, by pulling trigger and pumping up down/sideways, is require.  Thanks for the input my friend.

jasong - What is most amazing, Northern Nevada gold comes in such a varying texture and sometimes only a few feet apart.  Look at the pic of my propeller nugget "I named it". 

 

The only one from that area so smooth and then the others are rough?  So weird, but I'll take it.

 

 

 

[Gold Catcher]

54 minutes ago, Gerry in Idaho said:

when GB Mode is Manual, the detector operates just as it says and the Ground Balance procedure, by pulling trigger and pumping up down/sideways, is require.

I only pump the coil up and down without pressing the quick track button. If in auto/semi-auto mode this brings the tracking back into sync, i.e. during location change. However, during the real GB procedure I don't pump but rather swing the coil back and forth over the same ground while pressing the button. If I use manual GB I don't pump the coil in between since there is no tracking on, so no need for syncing. Instead, I repeat the GB procedure with button pressed if the soil conditions change. Also, I only use the ferrite for auto/semi auto, for manual I just use the ground. I hope I do all this right.....Re depth and HY vs General, I always thought General is when the detector is at maximum to cover a variety of different target and depth possibilities. It loses a bit sensitivity for the shallow fast gold but has a broader target range. I have heard some deep targets (nuggets 1-10 g) in general/difficult that I did not hear in HY normal. But I think this is extremely ground dependent and might be related to the weird places I hunt. I am glad you bring all this up Gerry! The Z is still King IMO and you never can learn enough, not even after 10 years.  🙂

GC

[Lead Detector]

Just so everyone knows....Gerry takes any challenge very serious! Here's proof

Then he does this! 😅

 

[Gerry in Idaho]

Gold Catcher - So many people think these detectors are easy and I just laugh at them.  Heck, guys like us are still learning the finer points to get optimum performance. 

Yes, the Pumping up/down vs Swinging on ground circle 8.  You're correct in my mind, circle 8 is better.  I have this bad habit I learned/earned of using Minelab PI's since the old green SD-2100 days in the 90's and each newer detector since, we were advised to pump up and down. Then, as you know, the ZED comes out and the DOD coils are you be circle 8 GB'ed.  Hard habits to break, my bad.

That dang chart I posted has my head all messed up.  I'm thinking the majority of gold 50 grams and under is ideal in HY Mode.  Then, if I am not mistaken, JP says HY has been is best depth on ALL SIZES.  Go figure.  That's exactly why I wanted others to chime in, so even us Salty dogs can learn a new trick.

Lead Detector - You should see how serious it gets when I'm swinging against my Field Staff Experts.  They like ganging up on me.  The good part is....and I'm not upset at all.  I have 2 of them who live in the field for 6 months out of a year hunting gold and occasional meteorites.  They have seasonal jobs in the summer and each winter, it's down to AZ and putting hours on their machines.  I'll admit it, they are usually better at gold than I, on their GPX-6000 and GPZ-7000.  Now on a variety of gold capable detectors, I can shine.  But it only takes a few times out and Lunk is all (hook-line-sinker), the sneaky one, so watch out.  His nickname "Silent Assassin".

Here's the good part about you this year Lead Detector, you're posting pics of Gold Finds already.  Last year, you were trying to figure out what detectors to own and digging lead. I enjoy watching DP members progress.  Keep it up.

[Norvic]

5 hours ago, Gerry in Idaho said:

So many people think these detectors are easy and I just laugh at them

Aye, once ya reckon ya got em worked out there is no gold left for you, even the SDC and 6K with their excellent turn on and go ability. I suspect maybe even more so for them because that turn on and go ability lulls you into a sort of "this is easy" attitude.

[Northeast]

5 hours ago, Gerry in Idaho said:

Then, if I am not mistaken, JP says HY has been is best depth on ALL SIZES.

@Jonathan Porter can correct me but I think he meant the HY/Normal combo gave the best detection across all sizes.  If needing to run in Difficult then that changes things and General/Difficult might be better than HY/Difficult on certain size gold (bigger bits).  

[Jonathan Porter]

One of the things I hate in modern metal detectors is the habit of combining functions to a single key, on the 6000 the timings button is also a long press on/off threshold control and causes so much trouble for new chums with a zero threshold in the out of the box default settings, new chums think they’re turning the threshold on but they don’t hold the key down long enough and instead change to normal timings with still zero threshold, but because the ground is often highly mineralised here in Australia the ground signal breaks through the zero threshold sounding like an actual threshold has been turned on, albeit a jerky jumpy messy one.

On the 7000 the Quick-Trak button performs two functions at once, which is not ideal if you choose to use the machine in Semi-Auto (an absolute MUST in my opinion). So the only way to achieve a GB on the 7000 is to pump the coil till you can hear it quietens down. Generally I instruct customers to think of it like this, pumping the coil over a given spot gives the GB accuracy, then sweeping gives it averaging. As a rule of thumb if I have a suspect target and I am in semi-auto mode I will pump the coil away from the target zone till the GB settles then slowly sweep up to the target zone to get the averaging right.

As such I recommend everyone using a 7000 should have this method in their workflow, I NEVER use Quick-Trak unless I’m performing a ferrite balance. The figure 8 method is just a form of averaging that is a carry over from the first update software when the ferrite was introduced. In conductive soils a sweep method is better than pumping as conductive is exacerbated by movement of the coil away from the ground. However if conductive is present it can often throw the GB out, consequently I tend to do regular micro pumps of the coil in these situations to maintain accuracy then let the semi-auto do its thing.

21 hours ago, Gerry in Idaho said:

As for why I decided to run General Gold Mode vs the High Yield Mode, was when I read the Minelab GPZ-7000 literature they provide and show us a picture graph see below

 

The default settings out of the box on the 7000 are HY Difficult, in Australia it is the go-to way to use the machine and most likely for most users in the world. Minelab provide the difficult timings that make life a lot easier for all uses, it is unique to them since the release of the GPX4000, no other manufacturer does this. A LOT of gold has been found BECAUSE of Difficult.

The GPZ is a different beast compared to a regular PI, as such its timings are done differently. Because of this the most sensitivity to fast time constant targets is through the HY pathway, especially in the Difficult settings. I would say to save on confusion this is what is being referred to in literature focusing on the unique aspect of the timings advantages. The advantages also play out in the EMI space with HY being least susceptible but also mechanically with rub and bump/touch noise with HY also being less problematic compared to General modes.

In Normal timings things switch around a bit, as everyone knows the detectors are two channeled hence channel flipping and also why one timing will manifest as a high/low and another low/high on the exact same target. HY is also a little more sensitive to conductive signals but it’s cleaner threshold and less touch rub bump noise make it a cleaner environment to work from when listening for edge of detection. Good operators will go over deep areas using a variety of timings as each one has its sweet spot. In all my deep large nugget digs over the years by a big margin HY Normal has offered the best OUTRIGHT DEPTH if the conditions will allow.

In mineralised soils where you have no option but to use Difficult, HY is better on targets up to say 12 to 15 grams with General coming in stronger from that size and up. This is on solid nugget gold not prickly or ragged shaped gold. However to benefit from General gold mode in Difficult the ground needs to be pretty clear of sticks and rocks and grass tussocks and the EMI needs to be minimal.

Just my 2cents, there are a range of timings provided for a reason, but I will always TRY to remain in HY because the advantages are stacked MORE in its favour. 

JP

[Jonathan Porter]

21 hours ago, Gold Catcher said:

Also, I only use the ferrite for auto/semi auto, for manual I just use the ground. I hope I do all this right.....

I would not recommend this method. No matter the mode, Semi Auto, Auto or Manual, when triggering QT always have the ferrite present. The tracker that tracks X is VERY slow, so if using Auto you should use QT over the ferrite and then when you go detecting the X balance will remain reasonably constant or slowly drift away dependant on ground conditions (conductive is the worst for throwing X out in Auto mode). If X is present in the soils the X tracker usually does a good job of things, but if there is conductive present as well things can get ugly, hence why I always use Semi-Auto so I can lock the X to the electronics temp which hardly alters once warm. Conductive is almost always present regardless of the mineralisation levels, and is often confused with mineralisation.

So to reiterate, if you are triggering Quick-Trak whip out the Ferrite and use that at the same time otherwise don’t use QT and just pump the coil slowly and let the tracker do its thing, in Manual key your User button to the GB menu and go to either Auto or Semi-Auto to achieve a GB without using QT. The moment you trigger QT the X balance will hit warp speed expecting to grab onto whatever X signal is present, if there’s no X then it might try to extract its readings from the conductive instead, not a problem in zero X ground from then on but the moment you hit some X then Xspurt mode will engage. 😂 (you liked my little pun? X being the unknown and spurt being directly related to conductive signals 😝).

If the X balance is out badly in ground with zero X then there’s no issue (it can’t make a signal if there’s no X present), however if X is out and X is present then there will be extra ground signal that will in turn do harm to edge of detection with unwanted unnecessary signals.

Hope this helps
JP

[Mountaineer Matt]

This was a really great read and thanks for sharing. I don't have any experience with the 7000 and am mainly running the 6000 and Axiom these days. I typically always dig an iffy target down about 2" to see if it gets louder or sounds better, and will walk away if it doesn't. Now I'm wondering if I should have dug down 8" on all those iffy targets...