How Did The Manticore Do? Part 2

[F350Platinum]

I promised I was going to take the M8 coil to a small one acre patch where a house used to be. A few days ago I went over it with the M11 coil and found a couple of pennies, a wheat and an IHP.

I set up a grid search using flags. This patch has an unbelievable amount of iron in it, it's absolutely the most brutal iron patch of all my permissions. So bad in fact that I haven't been back to it since 2021. 😬 I found some pretty good stuff there with my Equinox. I found my first Trime near this spot along with a Mercury dime, my first two silver coins.

Before I get into it, I have a few things to mention about the Manticore:

I like it, I think it has its place on the beach for sure.

I do not like the battery life, many times already I've had to end a hunt because it was near zero, and I don't like running a lithium battery down that far.

I have a solution for that, ala Algoforce: 

I bungee a big honkin' battery to it. 😅 It's somewhat heavy but balances the M11 and M15 very well. You'd think that a detector with "50% more power" would have a 50% bigger battery. 🤔

I love how light the detector is with a small coil, but I find that in March winds it gets blown off the shovel - a lot.

I found a solution for that as well: 

Got this on eBay, it's a printed shovel magnet that will work with T and D handle shovels, especially Predator and Lesche. Here's a link to it:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186083602070

Another thing I needed a solution for was the little Velcro straps that you're supposed to use to hold the wire on, they always pop off and are just too fiddly for quick coil changes in the field, so I got some of these: 

Here's a link to that, not many make them, and he's only got one more set. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/296636161776

I use two of them, that way I can completely shorten the Manticore without any issue.

Ok enough of that. 😎

I learned something today that made me feel pretty good. I searched this area 4 years ago, and only recently found two cents... Well that was it. 

Other than a good portion of this junk I got nothing after a slow grid search with the M8:

Aluminum, iron, brass junk and lead. 

The problem was that everything sounded good with the little coil, even big forged iron, and particularly the large solid brass shotgun shells. I'm going to have to find a way to make the machine more reliable with this coil, other than lifting, which I should have done more of. 🤔

I can see using the M8 coil in some of my campgrounds, but in a bean field after harvest it's like a pinball game. 😅

The day was not without its rewards, I finished the search and went "on walkabout" with the M11 coil, and got all this stuff, my last find was the 1895 V nickel: 

I ended up with one really nice colonial button, a small object that looks like a bell, a D buckle, a 1962 memorial, and part of a copper or bronze nail. The other round bits are not identifiable, and I dug a chrome plated buckle piece. The top left object is button like, but the back of it is all iron. 

I wonder now if the Deus 2 can pull anything out of this spot... 🤔 

🍀

[F350Platinum]

Going to add a few things. 

For my hunting style, ever since I began using larger coils, I've developed (consciously or unconsciously) techniques that produce very good results locating and retrieving targets, and finding co-located objects. I may dig larger holes but in the long run it's worth it. Over time I hope to get still better with that. 🤔 It's not about depth, it's more the size and shape for me.

The M15 on the Manticore and the 13x11" on the Deus will probably be my go-to coils for relic hunting. The Manticore with the M15 is only 4 ounces heavier than my SteveG D2 rig with the 13x11". 🤯

The 13x11" is a little better for hunting in harvested rows, typically the crops (beans and corn) are sown 15" or so apart. Wheat is much closer. Regardless, if the crop is cut short, even swinging the coil over the stubble with relic oriented programs works just fine.

For some reason I don't like the stock 11" round coils, but I did observe that the M11 doesn't produce as many false signals as the Deus 11". The M11 is much more difficult to clean when the day is done.

Another problem for an old guy like me is the exquisitely painful muscle cramps I get after a 6-8 hour session, cider vinegar helps to stop them, but they are worse with the short gait required with a small coil.

The 9" Deus 2 coil and the M9 are my go-to "spears" both on the beach and in the fields, as neither detector has a 10x5" elliptical, which I would readily welcome, 12x6" might be even better but I don't know the physics or electrical science involved. I like the M9 better than the Deus 2 9".

I'm going to do a full comparison of the two eventually in the appropriate forum, I have a major beach trip coming up, and I'll be using the Manticore in the fields for a little longer.

🍀

[IBMe]

38 minutes ago, F350Platinum said:

Going to add a few things. 

For my hunting style, ever since I began using larger coils, I've developed (consciously or unconsciously) techniques that produce very good results locating and retrieving targets, and finding co-located objects. I may dig larger holes but in the long run it's worth it. Over time I hope to get still better with that. 🤔

The M15 on the Manticore and the 13x11" on the Deus will probably be my go-to coils for relic hunting. The Manticore with the M15 is only 4 ounces heavier than my SteveG D2 rig with the 13x11". 🤯

The 13x11" is a little better for hunting in harvested rows, typically the crops (beans and corn) are sown 15" or so apart. Wheat is much closer. Regardless, if the crop is cut short, even swinging the coil over the stubble with relic oriented programs works just fine.

For some reason I don't like the stock 11" round coils, but I did observe that the M11 doesn't produce as many false signals as the Deus 11". The M11 is much more difficult to clean when the day is done.

Another problem for an old guy like me is the exquisitely painful muscle cramps I get after a 6-8 hour session, cider vinegar helps to stop them, but they are worse with the short gait required with a small coil.

The 9" Deus 2 coil and the M9 are my go-to "spears" both on the beach and in the fields, as neither detector has a 10x5" elliptical, which I would readily welcome, 12x6" might be even better but I don't know the physics or electrical science involved. I like the M9 better than the Deus 2 9".

I'm going to do a full comparison of the two eventually in the appropriate forum, I have a major beach trip coming up, and I'll be using the Manticore in the fields for a little longer.

🍀

 

“I may dig larger holes but in the long run it's worth it.”

I hate to tell you this sir, but over the real long time, you’re going to be using every trick you can think up to reduce the number of holes because at some point, you’ll have a limited budget of how many holes you can dig. Until then, have fun.

[F350Platinum]

4 hours ago, IBMe said:

I hate to tell you this sir, but over the real long time, you’re going to be using every trick you can think up to reduce the number of holes because at some point, you’ll have a limited budget of how many holes you can dig. Until then, have fun.

I don't disagree with you particularly, but I'm assuming you have a lot more experience and are much older than me at 65, but I don't know that because you only post videos. 🤔 

At this point in my detecting, I'm after getting the most out of a place in a limited time, especially beaches. I have the time to relic hunt, but many of my permissions are 50 acres or more. I have the stamina, and the tone to do it. I'm posting my opinion here. 😎

Large ellipticals "grab" targets on their periphery, often a little "blip" leads to a great find upon investigation. To me, coverage is key for now.

If you want to swing 10x more to find stuff and take small steps, that's your preference. 🙂

[Chase Goldman]

Bob,

Regarding your battery issues:

You may find that as your new Manticore battery gets worked-in with more charge-discharge cycles you will get slightly better run times.  But, yes, the Manticore is marginal to extended run times past 6 hours for the higher discharge modes, especially in colder ambient temps, despite advertising 10 hours max run time (which is best case favorable conditions).  It has a 6.5AH capacity vs. 5 AH on the Nox 800.  I will note that twice the power to the coil does not translate to twice the needed battery capacity as the actual current drain for the coil is a small percentage of the total power draw on the battery with the processor, wireless radio, and backlight having significant impacts on battery run time.

Second key point - never use a power bank to charge a LiB if your ambient environmental temp is less than 0C/32F as you can damage the battery being charged.  Of all the components that are operating and storage temperature sensitive, the LiB are the most crtical in terms of heeding the operating and storage temp limits stated in the User Guide.

[IBMe]

1 hour ago, F350Platinum said:

I don't disagree with you particularly, but I'm assuming you have a lot more experience and are much older than me at 65, but I don't know that because you only post videos. 🤔 

At this point in my detecting, I'm after getting the most out of a place in a limited time, especially beaches. I have the time to relic hunt, but many of my permissions are 50 acres or more. I have the stamina, and the tone to do it. I'm posting my opinion here. 😎

Large ellipticals "grab" targets on their periphery, often a little "blip" leads to a great find upon investigation. To me, coverage is key for now.

If you want to swing 10x more to find stuff and take baby steps, that's your preference. 🙂

All I’m trying to say is that when you get older, I’m 79, you’ll spend more time trying to determine what’s down there without digging the hole. You’ll have no choice because you’ll have a limited hole budget. I only have a few years’ experience, have limited to say, but I got my tricks.  

[F350Platinum]

57 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Bob,

Regarding your battery issues:

You may find that as your new Manticore battery gets worked-in with more charge-discharge cycles you will get slightly better run times.  But, yes, the Manticore is marginal to extended run times past 6 hours for the higher discharge modes, especially in colder ambient temps, despite advertising 10 hours max run time (which is best case favorable conditions).  It has a 6.5AH capacity vs. 5 AH on the Nox 800.  I will note that twice the power to the coil does not translate to twice the needed battery capacity as the actual current drain for the coil is a small percentage of the total power draw on the battery with the processor, wireless radio, and backlight having significant impacts on battery run time.

Second key point - never use a power bank to charge a LiB if your ambient environmental temp is less than 0C/32F as you can damage the battery being charged.  Of all the components that are operating and storage temperature sensitive, the LiB are the most crtical in terms of heeding the operating and storage temp limits stated in the User Guide.

Thanks Chase, 

My comment about the battery just sorta popped into my head, I had mentioned it as a joke to someone just before I wrote this. 😁 Guess I'm spoiled with the 8+ hour longevity of other machines.

I'm sure there are all sorts of reasons why the battery is what it is, size, travel restrictions, that sort of thing, and I've read all the prior stuff about "power" 🙂

I'll probably discuss some of this stuff in a post comparing this machine to the Deus 2, strengths and weaknesses of both, yeah I'm kinda late to the party. 

Thanks also for the charging info!

Luckily Raynaud's keeps me out of the cold at around 32° or lower so that shouldn't be a problem. Is there an upper limit as well? I'm not going to be detecting on Mercury any time soon, but I do remember blanking out my Equinox display one day on a beach with a cover over the unit. 🤔

[Chase Goldman]

Yeah - I posted the 32F thing as a public reminder for others who use a power bank while operating their LiB powered detectors in cold weather.  It's a sure fire way to trash your battery's useful capacity and the chemical process that causes the damage is permanent and not reversible. Chances are if the outside temp is right at 32F your operating Manticore battery itself is probably not at 32F due to self heating because of electric current resistive power losses, but no way I am going to "bank" on that (pardon the pun).  To stay well away from the damaging process, I don't run a power charge on anything LiB below 40F.

The upper operating limit for Manticore is 104F/40C.  While I wouldn't advise using a charge bank in hot temps and direct sunlight due to thermal runaway and swelling concerns, those issues do not necessarily result in permanent "invisible" chemical damage like cold charging does without outward signs of distress (hot to the touch, display malfunctions etc.) Although the LCD type displays do turn black when overheated and that has nothing to do with the LiB.

Regarding run time, if ML says 10 hours in the manual without written caveats, then you should get 10 hours on average at least not under best case conditions. That's what ML says is "typical" with ATHC being a high power draw mode that shaves an hour off that run time.  But based on the anecdotal evidence of users, like yourself, I'm not seeing those 10 hour run times even in favorable modes and conditions.

[F350Platinum]

26 minutes ago, IBMe said:

All I’m trying to say is that when you get older, I’m 79, you’ll spend more time trying to determine what’s down there without digging the hole. You’ll have no choice because you’ll have a limited hole budget. I only have a few years’ experience, have limited to say, but I got my tricks.  

More power to ya man 👍

I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. 😬

Right now I'm finding (and posting) that using the big coils not only will find me more stuff in less time, they also don't leave much - if anything - behind. Woe be unto the person behind me. 😎

Of course that's a double edge sword, I'll have to keep getting new permissions but that's been going well so far.

I don't mean to come off as arrogant, it's more confidence in my last 5 years of detecting. I get out anywhere from 3-5 days a week, sometimes more, and find I'm getting proficient with these new machines. 🙂 Confidence is often mistaken for arrogance, I'm not speaking the gospel 🤣

I was really shocked to see how well I did with the Equinox 600 in this spot 4 years ago. 🤯