Minelab Business Model?

[Billy The Kid]

For the past 30 years, Minelab has been head & shoulders above all gold prospecting detector competition.

For the first 20 years of that period, Minelab had regular replacements of its prospecting flagships with improved models.

This, I might add, was even without any meaningful competition from other manufacturers.

Some of the changeovers were, if my memory serves me correctly, within 2 years or less of the previous models.

Now, it's been a decade since the GPZ was released.

And we have had no flagship detector replacement.

Now we are asked to believe it is because Minelab is waiting for the completion to catch up.

That business model does not make sense to me, as Minelab are losing millions in revenue to the coils & mods guys.

Minelab, why not just release a new, deeper-seeking GPZ and blow Nokta and Garrett out of the water before they have even had a chance to catch up?

This old prospector would certainly be grateful for it, and so might your shareholders.

Unless, of course, you have taken the current technology to near its depth limits already.

[phrunt]

They took so long that the mod guys and coil manufacturers ended up making their products far superior to how they were released, this in turn has made it harder for them to release new models.    People with modded 5000's are saying they're just as sensitive to the small stuff as the 6000's only they get the depth advantage the 5000 already had, sounds like they don't need a 6000 to me, and 7000 owners have a range of sizes of coils in different winding types to get the best out of their detector too.

The 6000 was released which I think has topped out PI's performance to small gold and a smart move by Minelab, the other PI's they made even the SDC are pretty weak on smaller gold but handle any ground you can throw at them.   Putting a smaller coil or especially a small spiral on the GPX 4500/5000 made by someone like Nugget Finder or Coiltek largely caught it up to the SDC, an early example of how aftermarket coils changed products performance.   The powers that be at Minelab knew a lot of small gold was being left behind in hotter soils by these GPX and SDC users, they knew they could make a detector that hits it and it would be a sales hit as so many people would find a lot more gold than they were used to finding, sure big bits pop up too, that's the life of detecting if you swing over something.    The downside to the 6000 when it comes to performance is it's a big step backwards than the earlier SDC and 5000 when it comes to hot rocks and in many cases soil handling, the worst of the worst you can be fine with the older models, not the 6000, this is clearly as they've pushed it so hard to be sensitive to small stuff it reacts worse than the less sensitive detectors, a common trait with metal detectors, no free lunch.

Minelab immediately let Coiltek and Nugget Finder make 6000 coils, as there were already prototype X-coils for it buzzing around so they wanted to stop that and allowing their partners to make coils did the trick, thanks X-coils for forcing their hand.  It gave me the little Coiltek 10x5" which is the best small gold coil for the 6000.  What's the bet the next GPX model takes a lot of the timings and features of the 5000 and adds it onto the 6000 to make it more versatile.  Mashing up two existing technologies to make a new model which many would be very happy with, doesn't require much innovation from them though but will sell very well, they left enough off the 6000 to make this new model possible.  They trickle out technology and hold models back.

I believe they can take the 7000 further, it's a first-generation detector, just modern electronics means they can likely make it lighter and better, it's slow navigating the menus with GPS enabled showing the processor is working hard on the old girl, the coil designs are inherently heavy with DOD with the aftermarket Concentric coils being lighter.  Nugget Finder and X-coils lightened up their GPZ DOD coils not by lightening the windings themselves, but by lightening the housing, thinner different plastics, different foam and a smaller size, but still GPZ coils are heavy so any new GPZ is still going to be carrying some weight unless they change coil type entirely.

When there was no competition, it made little sense to release a new GPZ, as long as it was selling well which it appears it was they may as well hold onto the tech as at some point they run out of things they can do, their business is to make detectors, when the tech hits the wall you become the next Fisher, making the same detectors over and over with a different paint job.  The downside to being on the market so long for many manufacturers is the clones come out, and the aftermarket manufacturers get to work making modifications and coils for it making that next model that bit harder to make by cutting into performance they could have held back for the next model.   The GPZ is far more sensitive with a Concentric coil or a smaller DOD than they were allowing it to be with their coils, so they've lost that extra sensitivity as a feature they could boast about on the GPZ 8000 if they were to include a smaller coil off similar technology.

They could have easily said something like - GPZ 8000, 25% more sensitive and greater depth to small gold than the GPZ 7000 just by releasing the 8000 with a smaller coil.

Now we are eagerly waiting for Nokta, who have boldly said they're going to be competitive with the top Minelab models with their new detector, fingers crossed as this will be the start of competition forcing truly innovative releases.

[Aureous]

3 hours ago, phrunt said:

Now we are eagerly waiting for Nokta, who have boldly said they're going to be competitive with the top Minelab models with their new detector, fingers crossed as this will be the start of competition forcing truly innovative releases.

I suspect after the GM2K, the new Nokta will be my next detector purchase (#47 and #48 in my detecting history) because I anticipate not being able to afford the Z8K when it arrives. Being homeless certainly brings a degree of rational spending to the fore. Nokta are the only ones appearing to give us value....I could go on and on re the new Gold Monster but will wait until I get it in my hands before final 'value' judgement.

Yes, Minelab have a radically different business model and always have since Peter Charlesworth took over the company (prior to Codan acquisition). Creating a 'premier' apex market segment from the outset, based on outstanding tech and strong patent protection has waned ever since the likes of Ian Aitken and Nenad Lonic left the company. People with ACTUAL experience in the field, face to face discussion with the customer base and feedback are sorely needed in Minelab. Management there now has a perceived perception of being distant, uncontactable and irrational. Cant see it changing....

[phrunt]

I'm not buying the GPZ 8000 either, it's ridiculous for someone like me to buy a detector priced the GPZ price or higher, I just don't find the gold to make that sort of purchase, I'll leave it to the professionals.  The GM2000 is likely my last Minelab gold detector purchase, I'm happy enough using what I've got and anything alternative brands bring to market like Garrett and Nokta which are priced cheaper might be worthwhile.   I didn't really need the 6000, it's barely better than the 7000 on small gold, and the 7000 is clearly better on most other gold than the 6000.  I like its lighter weight but not worth paying the price for.   I certainly wouldn't feel left behind using the 7000 with an 8" coil over the 6000 with the 10x5" coil but the real sleeper for the 7000 is the 12" spiral, beats them all on small gold.

 Hard to know what the 8000 will bring and how much better it will be than the 7000, if its anything like the differences between the 7000 (with extra coils) and the 6000 they certainly won't be enough to make me feel like I'm missing out and any marketing comparisons with %'s they do is just based off their own detectors with their own coils.  I think 8000 improvements are largely going to be all about bigger deeper gold, not something that I'm too worried about unfortunately.

Minelab are pricing me out, like I suspect many others. Even the GM2000 price is really pushing the limits of what I would pay for a VLF gold detector when the multi-purpose machines are already very good, time will tell, I guess.  To top it off they provide some cheap wired ear buds with it rather than proper wireless headphones that are even available on the low-end VLF's, and no wireless capability at all.

[Reg Wilson]

The difference with Minelab is that it is part of Codan, and a minor part at that. The longest serving member of the Minelab staff has only been there for nine years, so no Minelab employee has any experience of the pulse induction quantum leap that took Minelab to the unassailable peak of metal detector manufacturers worldwide, let alone the early days of a handful of Adelaide Uni guys taking on the 'big boys'. Despite the fact that Minelab have agencies and dealerships world wide the big decisions are made at the top of the Codan company where priorities are far different from the heady days of the past. In the new corporate world I fear that the gap between company and customer has drastically widened, and the demise of dealers such as Miners Den sends a message to both dealers and consumers, and that is unsettling as the message and the implications are unclear.

[Bedrock Bob]

From a purely nugget hunting perspective...Minelab went above my pay grade 20 years ago.

Sure the newer models are an improvement and makes the work easier/more efficient. Yes they may go deeper or find smaller particles. But the machine you are using is just one factor in a much bigger equation.

When I've hammered a good spot with my outdated technology I don't search for a better machine. I search for a new detecting spot. If I suspect there is gold deeper or smaller than my detector will hit I search for a shovel.

I could never justify giving up a couple ounces of gold for a newer detector. In my neck of the woods thats about a hundred and fifty hours of searching. I'm not sure digging deeper holes and finding tinier targets would work to my advantage.

I'll often find a patch of little nuggets with a detector and spend 3-4 days digging freckles. Then come back and run a drywasher for a day and get MUCH more gold than any detector will find. Sometimes the "joy of detecting" gets in the way of gold recovery. 

I guess if a guy is just using a detector to recover gold then a better detector might be worth the money... if you have access to ground rich enough to offset the cost.

[mn90403]

I've got it, I've GOT IT.  I've GOT IT!!!

Minelab's business model all of these years has been WAITING for the price of gold to go up!

It makes as much sense as anything else posted or mused about.

[Aureous]

2 hours ago, mn90403 said:

I've got it, I've GOT IT.  I've GOT IT!!!

Minelab's business model all of these years has been WAITING for the price of gold to go up!

It makes as much sense as anything else posted or mused about.

its a self-hyping model.... the more $$ are in the eyes of the 'prospective prospectors', the higher the price of the detector. Just like the old pick and pan salesmen of the 19th century.....they're the ones that got rich 

[Billy The Kid]

Well, whatever Minelab's business model reason is for dragging their feet about releasing the GPZ 8000, it has had

catastrophic consequences for me.

I am now suffering from an acute case of SGEES.

For those who are not familiar with this term, it stands for Tiny Gold Enthusiasm Extinction Syndrome. 

I relocated to Victoria's Golden Triangle about one year ago to search for gold semi-full-time in my golden years.

The plan was to use the GPX 6000 for about a year or so, mopping up the crumbs on my old patches until the new

GPZ 8000 was released, and to then use that to go after the bigger, deeper gold.

Well, here I am one year later and not only have we not had a replacement for the GPZ 7000, we are still none the wiser

when or even if a replacement is coming any time in the next year or so.

The GPX 6000 was fun to use for the 6 months or so, then the enthusiasm started to wane.

And it has been waning ever since.

Was going out 5-6 times a week at the start and getting 5 to 10 grams a week in tiny gold, which was exciting

at the start, as I said earlier, but it is no longer so, and I am having problems dragging myself out even for 2 or 3 days 

to detect stuff that is going 20 pieces or more per gram

Some of you are probably saying to yourselves that you wished you had a problem like that, where you are only

getting a gram or two of gold per day.

But I have been in the game from the early years and found larger gold by the kilo back in those days, so the trill 

of finding flypoop gold pales into insignificance. 

Cheerio.