Bob S

12 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

I use the 9.5x6 coil on my Legend almost exclusively, and it hits deep for its size. Sure, there's a minor loss of depth on coin sized targets compared to an 11" round coil, but to me, the major advantages of an elliptical coil of around that size, far outweigh the slight depth loss

I have an 11 x 6" elliptical on my current detector and really enjoy its depth and maneuverability in high grass fields and tough wooded conditions. I had 11" rounds on previous detectors in some of the same hunt locations that felt like I was swinging a garbage can lid filled with rocks! 🙂 Tough getting up close to some of those old big trees! For me it's all about comfort and focus on my hunting and not struggling with anything I use.

20 hours ago, phrunt said:

The Find-X Is incredible value, cheaper than a Go-Find in NZ, which judging by the name they wanted to have that association.  Yet it's more of an X-Terra Pro.   Good on you Nokta, this is great.

Nokta seem excellent at making detectors, and they're really shaking up the market but there is one area they're failing, availability.  They need to step up there.  We have a Nokta dealer and that's great, someone like me that wants to buy their products that knows about them knows where to get them, but their products need a broader reach.  Detectors like this Find-X need to be readily available, it's an impulse buy price for a family that are out shopping and see a new toy they could enjoy together.  It needs to be in a more retail environment, in big box type stores and even the sporting goods stores Minelab has been squeezing into.

This I believe is the next important thing Nokta do to grow their business.

Our only NZ dealer is a tad odd for their location, they're on a mountain pass road that people would only ever be on if they were transiting that pass, I doubt there would ever be people that drive to the dealer to look around without already being on that drive.  Hours from any city and the nearest town only has 310 people.  They're there as it's a great location for them to live, but a poor location for a shop 🙂 Mitchel will drive past them tomorrow as he takes on the mountain pass, I bet he doesn't even notice the shop, I've driven it a few times and never seen it and that's with me knowing its there somewhere.

All I can say is, for the price, I'm impressed after seeing the Nokta FindX. I'm not a fan of the pole mount control housings in general, but this is better than some. The unit telescopes way down which is nice. Hard to see if the shafts are round, but all they need do (if not) would be to make the handgrip/pod rotate into being parallel with the searchcoil folded flat and you could likely get this in a backpack. OK, we have wired headphones, but there are dedicated headphone kits available where the transmitter is hard-wired to the "audio out" and then wireless to the headphones. A wireless pinpointer could then pair with the headphones. If you could put that wired transmitter under the arm cup, you would then have counterbalance for  even the minimal 2.6 pounds it weighs! OK, maybe it won't hang with the big boys in highly negative ground (as far as anyone knows yet), but I bet it does just as well or better as most single frequency VLF Motion's in the recent past. Battery source: 2300 mAh Lithium Polymer... Not too shabby. Most of all, I'm impressed with the simple-to-the-point layout of the display and controls in thumb's reach. Maybe the ID number size is smaller than some, but possibly looks to be readable without glasses. I like the fact the lower shaft fastens to the center of the searchcoil. That goes a long way to help lessen "toe heavy" large searchcoils if attachment is below center instead.

We have a global economy, whether we like it or not, and competition is a good thing. We as consumers get what we want at a better price it now seems. Like "phrunt" says, "Good on ya Nokta"!

4 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I have used the Tenergy with no problems. Here is an older thread on the subject. Since I mainly nugget hunt my pinpointers really don't get enough use to justify using rechargeables and I've reverted to using regular 9Vs.

 

Thanks Steve.... After reading about the Li's and the melting, maybe I'll stick with NiMH! Yes, the brand I'm using now is the same, Tenergy, and they have been really lasting a long time. I originally bought a whole box (8) of the same early "blues" you show and most sat in the box never to be charged, still had the wrapper's on them. I should have rotated them because they eventually perished from non-use and no charge. Then I moved on to only a few of "low self discharge" version I talked about above which I will rotate. I still like devices where the battery is not hard-wired and can be replaced, rechargeable or standard.

1 hour ago, abenson said:

Apex/Axiom style control housing and menu layout is definitely one of the best setups on the market right now. Nice wide screen and LCD that's easy to read and don't have to wear a pair of reading glasses to see the screen. Menu on both machines are great too. You don't have to have the user manual in your hand trying to figure how many sub-menus and hidden options there are or try to decipher icons on the screen. I would like to see a 3 piece rod system with camlocks similar to the Axiom (maybe not as beefy) on the next model so it can be collapsed down nice and compact. 

I like the looks and function of the Axiom too, even though I wouldn't have use for a pulse in my venues. I think they used the pod from the Apex nicely( if it was second to the Apex)... I can't remember. The only thing I'm not a fan of is that little "patio chair" armcup on top of the battery compartment, but that's the graphic designer in me! 🙂  I like collapsible too, especially if I can fit it in a backpack! I have reading glasses on a cord around my neck and I still couldn't see the display on one of my recent detector purchases! Just love the backlight on the Apex display when I'm thinking, "C'mon, one more old coin!" 🙂

2 hours ago, kac said:

I've been using black ube lithium rechargeable on mine and carry an alkaline as a spare. Think I need to recharge it maybe twice a year lol.

I never gave Lithium's a thought. Wow that is some duration of charge! I wonder how it compares in price though to a $5 NiMH. I used to keep Alkalines as spares to the NiMH as well until I went to buy some quality new ones and saw the price! 😆 When the NiMH wears out, I might start using Lithium too! But I think I'll have to charge more than twice a year hopefully! 🙂

OK, I pushed the wrong forum button I guess! Starting over again...

TIP #1 For economy & ecological reasons, I have used a rechargeable 9V battery in my Garrett Pro-Pointer AT for as long as they have been released, even in the original Pro-Pointer as well. Not going to mention the brand of rechargeable battery publicly, but these batteries were 200mAh, NiMH (nickel metal-hydride) composition. They worked well, but the amount of time you actually use them in the field is directly proportional to how long they last, obviously. The problem I've had is how long the charge lasts in storage, because I always carry a charged spare with me in the field. I've had days where the installed battery became discharged and then I go for my charged spare, only to have it not last very long. Then I was stuck retrieving "old school"!

Recently I have purchased a new "low self discharge" rechargeable NiMH 9V (same brand) that can retain an 85% charge for a year! You read that correctly.  Currently I have been using the same new battery in the PPAT for more than 4 outings and it is still going strong. Now when I go to use my spare in the field, it might even be usable! I paid $20 for 4 which is quite a good deal if they last a long time.

TIP #2 I've always had a bit of a problem taking off the battery compartment cover which I think is due to Garrett's really good submersible seal. Even though the cover has some flutes to it, I have trouble gripping the smooth low thickness cover. A workaround for me is to carry a 1/4" wide rubber band and wrap it around the cover when needed. If you can find a small diameter 1/4" wide band, all the better. The rubber band acts like a "kitchen jar lid opener" and gives me a good grip... OR, maybe I can get my wife to come with me and open it!

For economy reasons, I have used a rechargeable 9V battery in my Garrett Pro-Pointer AT for as long as they have been released, even in the original Pro-Pointer as well. Not going to mention the brand of rechargeable battery publicly, but these batteries were 250mAh, NiMH (nickel metal-hydride) composition. They worked well, but the amount of time you actually use them in the field is directly related to how long they last, obviously. The problem I've had is how long the charge lasts in storage, because I always carry a spare with me in the field

11 hours ago, DIG5050 said:

I relic and coin hunt in my local area mostly at old homesites. I’ve done this type hunting for about 40 years when time and family life allowed for it. My first factory made detector was a Garrett back in the ‘80’s. 
 

I enjoy using both Apex detector and D2-9”. I bought the Apex soon after it was released.  I had previously owned a ML Sovereign so I knew the virtues of SMF machines. More recently , the GTI-2500 was nice technology, but the Apex felt like heaven to my arm to swing especially since I’m older.  I learned the Apex and could hardly wait for each day I could go out and use it. I still like it and use it today, anywhere the soil conditions allow. Being rechargeable, having wireless headphones and 5 tones, SMF like the Sovereign, but so much lighter than my old machines was and is a win-win for me. 
 

I will use the D2 when the soil conditions are tougher, and like that I can tweak a few settings to the soil conditions. I wish I could do even a subset of similar adjustments with the Apex as it would be the icing on the cake for me. 
 

I eagerly await the “Storm” like a lot of other Garrett fans, and I hope they address some of the (lack of) adjustability of the Apex. 
 

Meanwhile I’ll keep using and enjoying with both machines. Let’s hope it the Storm appears soon. 

Yes, I too wish Garrett would add another menu item for processor speed in high trash in the new release. But remember, the faster the recovery speed, the less depth you will get. Extreme depth is sometimes not that important around old homesites. Maybe they could also give the operator the choice between modulated vs. full-on target response. Add to that user selectable number of audio pitch divisions. Personally, for a long time I have hunted using both audio and visual conductive reference and have liked an infinite range of pitches, low to high continuous. Oh yeah, simulated analog audio tone would be great.

OK, now you got me going... I'd like to see carbon fiber upper and lower rods, infinite camlock adjustment and the rods to have a shape other than round to hold the searchcoil and display in proper alignment to the housing. I'd like to have the lithium power source (replaceable) removed from the control housing and placed beneath the arm cup to add counterbalance to coil weight... Thus producing even better overall balance similar to like what Garrett did with the old GTA 1000. All-Terrain? All I care about is the whole detector is more rain resistant, I'm not an underwater hunter, other than searching streams. The Viper style coil does that extremely well. Rain resistant versus submersible would also be a good cost option for those who need it. I honestly do not care for portrait style, cellphone-like control housings, pods, and the like to be mounted far above the center of gravity. Don't lose the beautifully simple designed Apex display and the perfectly simple menu structure actuated by the current button tactile pad array! Maybe they could make the control "S" rod with two swivel joints that tighten to your preferred angle or slant. Add to that a replaceable foam grip in the attachment style we use to cover hot-water pipes in the home. In short, keep it simple, ergonomic, lightweight, solid, and affordable for all. At my current age, it's all about comfort and the fun I originally started the hobby to have.

6 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Just a reminder - this is the Garrett Forum for people who like and appreciate their Garrett detectors, where they can do so without people telling them that Brand X is better. You want to make brand to brand comparisons, take it to the Comparisons Forum.

I also do not find the Apex to be a powerhouse in my soil and have said so, but I don’t make it my mission to make sure I repeat that on every thread on the Garrett Forum to people who are happy with theirs.

I truly feel sorry for people who own and enjoy a Garrett Ace 150 or a Bounty Hunter. They go out and have fun and find things. Then they find a forum or get on Facebook, and get told what they own is not “the best” by all the people who are sure they own “the best.” There is a general elitist attitude on these forums that can’t tolerate anyone saying anything good about anything other than a dozen detector models. Own anything else and you will rapidly be made into a second class citizen here… and leave.

Great, maybe your car is better than my car, but truth is I like my car and I don’t want your car. Maybe people just like and want to support Garrett products regardless of whether somebody else thinks they should not.

Steve, I'll do better about comparing detectors in a dedicated brand topic. Given the fact I have been comparing detectors for many years both privately and publicly, it's a hard habit to break. But you are right, we don't want to downplay one detector against another because we do well with it. To me, that's about where to take it. I only did so because these were two detectors I owned recently and had experience enough to talk about them. I'm not to speed" on most all the newest detectors. Can't say I want to be anymore. I just want to hunt.

I remember one of the few times my wife actually went metal detecting with me and I gave her a popular non-motion discriminator I was testing at the time. I was using "old faithful". I asked her if she would like me to set it up for her... "No, I'll be fine!" I gave her some brief instruction on how to operate and she was gone across the school field extending the lower rod as she went. After two hours she returned to where I was and I noticed the searchcoil was swiveled around so the majority of the coil surface was under the pole! I started to smirk until she opened her hand, it was filled with coins, many were silver! She said, "How'd you do?" I had "red crickets"! 🙂 You are a good Admin, thank you.

I hope everyone here didn't think I meant the Apex was the do-all, end-all detector, it's not! No detector I have ever owned, reviewed, or tested has been. I think the manufacturers have tried, but none so far have been totally successful... The variance of mineral intensity throughout the world is just too daunting and performance trade-offs will always be an issue. If they were ultimately successful someday, we'd all own it and multi-faceted forums such as this would likely cease to exist!... It might be just "show and tell" from then on or "my coil's bigger than yours"! 🙂

I've only spoke on the Apex's virtues in my own ground context and the comfort it has afforded me. My beloved Teknetics Mark I (too heavy) was a killer in my own ground, take it relic hunting down South in hot ground and it failed miserably. This is the precise reason I tried to initiate a national network of field testing when I worked for a magazine. Retrospectively ironic is my most favorite coin ever found... It was found using my 1979 Garrett ADS Groundhog, a non-motion discriminator! Fond memories, but no depth performance match for today's detectors.

I think Garrett's future in the sport arena of metal detection will rely a lot on this upcoming release. I think they are acutely aware of their competition. The fact that they are heavily invested throughout the world in security detection will always keep them afloat as a company. I also think they were quite wise to purchase White's assets and gain their loyal customer following. For me, I'm looking forward to any ergonomic, lightweight, well-designed interface, high-performing and solidly built detector that will keep me swinging for the future. Oh yeah, it has to work in my dirt and leave me with a few bucks in my wallet! 🙂

49 minutes ago, abenson said:

Having had 3 Apexs at different times since release, I experienced similar issues when hunting target rich areas. This ultimately resulted in me giving up on the Apex for my type of hunting. Not saying the Apex is a bad machine, but target rich environments like ghost towns and relic site are not one of its strong points. I noticed it just has a difficult time isolating good targets in these scenarios and target ID is very unstable. One the other hand it can pretty much hang with the best of them on the salt water beaches.

Possibly your western minerals might be affecting the outcome in target rich locations? For me I've had some really good success with the Apex in areas like the trash embankment above, but I can't be sure all was found... Do we ever know. Most of my targets were buried no deeper than few inches if I remember correctly, but there surely was a lot of iron noise. I tried the Deus II on the same hill in the fast mode and didn't do much better and I know their processor is a lot faster.

Maybe Garrett should using parachutes in a rain storm! 🙂

I got to thinking about my glaze theory and I remember seeing real NYS Indian pottery once and it didn't look shiny. The site was remote though with no (other than the passerby pull-tab 🙂) signs of habitation. What I do know is the human prints were under some sort of shiny hard coating. Almost looked like somebody glazed clay chunks that did not resemble any form of pottery. Maybe they were from a kiln explosion? Any experts out there?  Now I will be looking again for this!

Hey Bill, I always had hoped to be a rock star, but that was with a guitar! 🙂 Seriously, I'm no rock star with a metal detector either. I put my searchcoils on like everybody else does. I'm just lucky to have found some great places to hunt for the last 56 years and the "gift of gab" to talk about it! The real treasures I've found are the friendships I've made in the hobby.

"I don't care about detector colors.  If you saw the mismatched furniture in my living room"... You my friend could be a standup comedian! 🙂 Wait, maybe you're color blind! 🙂

I think you might be correct about Garrett not furthering the Apex, but I do hope they use some of the feature strengths found on the Apex into a new model. You are right again, the Viper is an all-around great coil.

Let's hope all us Garrett fans get a "good kinda soaking" real soon!

The oldest find I made using a metal detector is unfortunately something still lost in my house somewhere! Not sure I would be able to photograph it well enough for you to see it, even if I could locate it again. I was hunting alongside the Hudson River many years ago looking for anything hopefully dropped by early settlers or trappers. When I got down to retrieve a target (later being a pull-tab under leaves 😞), my eye caught partially buried "rock" chunks that were lighter colored than the surrounding terrain, light-brown to be exact. I noticed (long before glasses) a shiny patina... GLAZE! I had found chunks of fired pottery! As I turned over one larger piece, I could actually see someone's palm and finger prints in the clay! Someone (likely Indians) making pottery left their anonymous personal identity! That one still gives me goose-bumps friends!

I second that George Kinsey! I haven't researched it enough, but I'm pretty sure George Payne is responsible for many critical patents we use today such as target ID and audio ID. I spoke to him years back and tried to get him interested in developing a "MicroMark1", but he bowed out gracefully. To that end, he even sent me the schematic to the original Mark I thinking I could have a go at it myself... Yeah right! 🙂 The original Teknetics metal detectors were all designed with stock off-the-shelf parts. I guess custom IC's were expensive back then and he did everything the long way, which is pretty tough to do even so. This is why the circuit boards and detector housings were so large I would imagine. In addition, so would the (14) AA NiCADs it took to power the circuit!

He was most proud of his Mark I model design. I was so excited about its release, I reviewed and tested the detector without compensation for WE&T in 1985. In my soil, the Mark I meter resolution could indicate the difference between clad and silver coins most of the time. I had a hunting partner who wouldn't talk to me for a month because I took all the silver and left him all the clad and penny's at one location... I kid you not. I eventually hipmounted the Mark I to contend with the weight, but that got to be too much even in that configuration. For me it was an incredible detector, very resolute visual ID, near perfect analog continuous pitch audio tone, real slow-motion detection, and fairly deep penetration even with a little 7-1/2" bi-planar concentric searchcoil. The Mark I was a monster on silver coins and gold rings.

The last time I spoke to George Payne he was working in the logging industry designing detectors to locate deep nails in trees to protect expensive saw blades. I asked if he would ever return to the metal detector industry and unfortunately he said, "I doubt it." I believe all the struggles between White's and Teknetics probably had a lot to do with his answer.

One for the road... Let's not forget Jerry Tyndall of Nautilus Metal Detectors. I got to become a close friend with him, he was a kind man, loved animals, and knew how to make a detector to hunt deep relics! Many of my best CW relic finds were made with his non-motion LF Relic King. His DMC motion series was a simple concept that could be used to incredible advantage on coins and relics. I miss our long talks over the phone. I will never forget him.

13 hours ago, DIG5050 said:

Bob, that is a nice assortment of targets you found. It looks like you had a good time at this site.  
 

The bright yellow CB is not to my liking, either.  Soon after the release of the Apex, the Sly Lynx Garrett Apex cover popped up on Amazon.  They had black, camo, and pixel camo. They are nice covers and hide the bright yellow color (!)  as well as keeping the display from becoming scratched, and helps keep the keyboard clean.

I ended up buying the camo and pixelated camo versions, and after nearly 4 years of use, still look like new.  Alas, I no longer see the camo or pixel camo versions available. 

On the new “Storm” release I would like to see black or camo.
 HH, Bob,!

I'd like to add that the site was lived in for many generations and the silver "Rosie" was found at the bottom of the embankment. I added it in for a scale reference to the other targets. The other silver is a pendant found halfway down the hill and appears to be fairly old. As you can see there is many years of discards, including two CW buttons... Calvary and General service. I can only imagine the old worn out uniforms being tossed down the embankment! The "C" is actually gold plated. The wheel at top I believe is from a child's toy cannon. I think it really reinforced my affinity for the Apex that day considering there were a ton of iron "grunts" there!

Thanks for the tip on the cover! I might try one sometime! I never gave them any thought before.

I should have added a comment on the Apex display. I find mine to be at its best in bright sunlight, even in shade it is still clear and defined. I've had other LCD displays on various brands be almost non-readable and especially in shade.

Thanks everyone... Now back on topic and I'll give everyone a break! 🙂 I have two observations/questions for what seems to be our little niche Apex user group!

1) I get myself into "alphabet soup" target scenarios sometimes with the Apex and I have noticed in some tough target concentrations, after about 4 passes over a seemingly good hit, the target audio starts to morph in swing stages and sometimes ends up being turned to an iron "grunt" indication... Most times ultimately proves to be a correct analytical... Usually times a rusted and bent square nail. Be advised I use no discrimination at all generally. It's almost as if the Apex shifts to analyze a troubled target at each frequency (5, 10, 15, and 20kHz in its Multi-Flex platform). This seems to sometimes happen only when the "going gets tough" so-to-speak. I'd love to have a chance to query Garrett Engineering on this. Would it be a glitch with a happy ending, or is this a Garrett proprietary SMF characteristic (?). To best illustrate my success with this nuance, the attached image is a collection of finds made in about one hour on the side of an old trash embankment, about 20 feet from an old home site. Most of the targets sounded off with a hard "blip" to gain a smoother edge tone on multiple passes. Many of the "good sounding" targets got worse and stopped repeating and turned into iron "grunts". Has any other Apex land hunter experienced the same thing?

2) This is getting slightly into the "Storm is Coming" topic... I tend to be very sensitive to color given my career as a graphic artist/designer. While I enjoy looking at the Apex color scheme in photos, the bright yellow rim around the control housing can be distracting in the field for me. I like the new camo Apex, but I'm just not into signature endorsements on metal detectors. I asked the factory if it were possible to order just a camo control housing for my Apex and they declined naturally probably in fear I would void my warranty. To be clear, I don't need to disguise myself to disappear into the woods, I just want a housing that doesn't contrast my natural surroundings and doesn't distract me. I'm hoping the new Garrett release is either all black or total camo. I actually like "digital camo" most of all like their older caps... So much so that everything in my kit has now become "digital camo" - my backpack, molle pouches, dig bag, cell phone pouch with spare 9V pocket, Winter coat.... HELP! 🙂 How does everyone feel about distracting bright colors on metal detectors and what would you like to see on the new Garrett release hopefully coming soon?

17 hours ago, palzynski said:

3x ? Not exactly ..   Here are the local ( French ) prices :

Garrett Apex :  549 E
XP Deus2 WS6 master : 899 E 

==>  899/549 = 1.6x  

 

https://www.metaux-detection.fr/fr/

 

 

Hey Palzynski... I owe you an apology. I thought you were picking up on something I wrote earlier about price comparisons. When I hit submit, I then (duh!) looked up and read you were replying to I think DIG5050 instead. I didn't mean to pick on you. Being a diabetic, I just get a little feisty when I haven't eaten lunch yet! 🙂 The Deus II was actually a good detector when I owned it. I'm basically a closet "gadget person" like everyone else and was attracted to it... But, because of my declining eyesight, I've never been a fan of cascaded menuing and tiny displays, at least for my eyes! You can hit me with a "Bagel" anytime you like! 🙂

Exactly, Jeff, Chase, of course! I hope you both read my post 3 up from bottom on page 2. It really sums up what I've been trying to present most of my life. I'm sure the Apex works not so great in stronger mineralized regions in the country, but fortunately for me in mine it's been heaven. I was lucky to escape some of the early coil issues.

I only wish the magazine I wrote for years ago would have let me orchestrate my national comparison system so we could all learn the strengths and weaknesses of each brand/model in real ground conditions in different areas of the country... But advertising revenue was bread and butter back then and hurt ego's might have been an issue for the magazine. When comparing detectors, we also have to compare customer support and service, and for my time owning Garrett's, I've never had more efficient and quicker service than theirs, even to this day.

My only retort at comparing prices was to give point that in the end you don't necessarily need to spend a lot of money to enjoy yourself and be comfortable. This was for two detectors I owned and had actual experiences with recently. I'm not talking here to make Garrett sales or hype the "Storm" or even hurt XP, they are all doing just fine without me! I guess on the surface though, it sure looks like that I bet! 🙂

I only hope the new Garrett appeals to me, if it doesn't I'll be just fine still walking behind the Apex or any other detector for that matter that earns my praise.

11 hours ago, palzynski said:

3x ? Not exactly ..   Here are the local ( French ) prices :

Garrett Apex :  549 E
XP Deus2 WS6 master : 899 E 

==>  899/549 = 1.6x  

 

https://www.metaux-detection.fr/fr/

I dug into my records... I bought my Apex first (USA) on 8/26/2020. It did not come with the MS-3 phones or the Pro-Pointer AT, I already had those from previous Garrett detector purchases. My price was $424.95. Then I purchased the Deus II 11" (USA) on 3/17/2022.  It came with the WS6 headphones and MI-6 pinpointer and cost me $1758.00.

$1758.00/$424.95 = 4.1369572x EXACTLY

Oops! My bad, you were correct, I should have said 4 times as much! OK, so let's play fair and not compare apples to croissants, I'll add current retail prices (which I bet have changed upward from when I got my Apex) of the MS-3 Phones ($107.05) + Pro-Pointer ($144.95) = $252.00

$424.95 Apex + $252.00 Accessories = $676.95 total

Revised... $1758.00/676.95 = 2.5969421x EXACTLY I'd say I estimated fairly close to 3 times as much.

In reality, all I know is what came out of my pocket in the USA was 4 times as much for the Deus II than I paid for my Apex. I had purchased the Deus II to see what all the fervor was about and possibly replace the Apex. I used the Deus II for 6 months to give it a fair trial. Verdict was in, I later sold it in favor of keeping the Apex which I have now used exclusively for nearly 4 years. The Deus II just wasn't my "Croissant"! 🙂

I think we are all addicted to having the next best detector. For me to love one and dis others is a bit unfair. I don't mean to influence anyone's decision, because another person might not see and feel the same way about a detector. But, I think constructive comparison is good informative talk for forums and free critique for the manufacturers. Everyone has their favorite brand, I'm no different. Right now we are mostly left with the big three... Garrett, Minelab, and XP. We should be all glad we have different manufacturers to choose from and not just one. We used to have a lot more! My only intention here is  to help those who chose the Apex themselves and not make anyone buy one because I like it. I've owned a lot of different detectors over the years and tested even more. I would have loved to settle on just one and had it become my "right arm", but there was always something I didn't like and it shoved me to look further. I have known people early in the hobby that stayed with only one brand and model and learned it well. Well enough to often times outperform the latest gadget detector. It's only because they long-learned how to operate and interpret signals with incredible accuracy. Many years ago, I tutored an older women club member who asked for my help in how to better use her detector. She had an incredible place to hunt, but did poorly her different times out. After she was shown the right way to use it and got more comfortable with her detector (old White's non-motion), she came to the next meeting and plopped down a medium-sized jar of silver coins! I swear I could almost hear jaws hit the table! To be honest, the art of the hunt is a little more than just the detector!

4 minutes ago, DIG5050 said:

I, too, was hoping for Garrett to release an update to refine the code of the Apex as well.  The core program is good, but could use a little tweaking to make it even better.  Tweaking it would be a great way to increase the value to the current users and lure prospective buyers to consider the Apex.  Simply allowing limited adjustability of the recovery speed, audio enhancements as mentioned in this thread, toggling the backlight on when changing detecting modes etc., would be beneficial to the all users. 

That notwithstanding, I have spent many hours with the Apex in the last 3+ years too, and found  many, many desirable targets with the Apex, some of my best.  As Bob and others mentioned, working slowly around iron infested sites can yield some nice non ferrous targets. With the Apex, one has to spend a little more time working amongst the iron sounds to hear the non ferrous targets. The D2 can locate these  targets a little faster due to the adjustable recovery speed. 

Recently I was at an old homesite where there was plenty of metallic trash in the ground.  I went over the sight with the D2-9”  and was able to recover 5 coins and some relics.  Then, on another afternoon, I went over the same area with the Apex equipped with the Ripper  coil and extracted two more coins, a key lock, and more relics.
 

In my Ohio soil, I find the D2-9” hits an 8” buried dime sized target better than the Apex with the Raider coil. But, again, the D2 cost 3x as much as the Apex.  Both machines offer great performance and easy-on-the-arm and shoulder swinging for extended periods of time.  

I'm still using Win7 SP1 and although Garrett says the update interface can use Win7, I have issues with it. I have to use my wife's Win10 notebook to actually do any updates. One thing I think Garrett could improve is the USB interface on the control housing. I had mine easily slip out during an update accidentally and "brick" the screen! It required a visit to the factory to resolve.

When I owned a D2, I took it back to a lot of sites I worked with the Apex and found little more for a detector costing three times as much. In all fairness, you can never be sure you ever get it all in big areas. I sold the D2 in favor of keeping the Apex and never looked back. There were other things I didn't like about the D2 that made me let go of it.... Long list actually. I once forgot to charge the 11" coil battery and it flat ended my day out. Another example... Before I realized (more like I couldn't believe) the old Minelab Sovereign didn't have a waterproof coil, I dunked it in a cold stream only to have that day end abruptly too. "Little" things like this irritate a guy! 🙂

My soil must be less mineralized than yours because I can hit naturally buried dimes and pennies easily at 8". I think the 8.5 x 11" Raider coil will see more of the ground minerals than the Viper, even when both are 2D configured. I find the Deus 1 and 2 (stock coil and 11") very coil heavy depending on how the rods are extended coupled with the lightweight remote. All detectors, unless counterbalanced, exhibit some nose dive, but the Apex surprisingly has much less. I once contemplated a backup field charger for my D2 coil, but that is just more money to spend after you learn to charge things when you are supposed to! 🙂

1 hour ago, kac said:

Toss a Steve G carbon middle and lower shaft and Apex is very well balanced. Not a huge weight difference but the machine feels better swinging than the D2 with 9".

Apex does handle wet salt sand very well. Extremely quiet machine. Hopefully the new machine will add tracking so transitions between wet and dry sand are smooth.

I did exactly that, although I would have preferred a triangular cross-section to the carbon fiber rods to maintain coil alignment to the control housing. Round tends to slip sideways occasionally if the cam-lock loosens. I also replaced the hard rubber grip with an AT-PRO foam grip. I did so because I just prefer a more "flat slant" to the "S" handle and the foam helps dampen the angularity I'm not fully comfortable with. I do prefer infinite length adjustment over preset "button and hole" adjustments.

Weighing my Apex with the Viper coil before and after the mods yielded a 0.2 lb. decrease on my parcel scale... And for someone who does not have a young arm and back anymore, that little weight reduction just made the Apex even better.

I'm not a fan of "coil heavy" detectors, no matter how light they may be. The heaviest searchcoil I ever used was an early Garrett "Co-Axial" on a Deepseeker, but man could that detector get close to chain-link fences and metal poles!... However, the 6 - 9V batteries at the end of the control housing did help with balance on a "U" handle configuration... Move forward to today and put the Ripper 5 x 8" on the Apex and now we're talking "swing all day kinda comfort" and maneuverability. The Ripper coil has decent depth as well. Tough one to beat in cellar hole hunts, but the Viper does surprisingly well overall.

Wait a minute Bill, maybe we should have keep this all a secret! 🙂