gollum

I live in Woodland Hills, CA. Last July, the TV Show "Legend of Superstition Mountain" flew me out, it was 111 and raining like hell. HAHAHA At the time, the working title of the show was "Dead Man's Gold". When they found out there were many more treasure stories in the Supers than the Lost Dutchman, they renamed it so they could take advantage of more than one story. I won't fly out there again. Makes it damn near impossible to bring weapons. I drive whenever I go now.

The Rendezvous is open to everybody that wants to show up, and there is no charge. There are usually a few speakers that talk Dutch Hunting (Greg Davis, Clay Worst, Bob Corbin, Tom Kollenborn, Jack San Felice, MK Roberts, and on, and on, and on. You can find updates on Treasurenet once things have been finalized:

Lost Dutchman

or on Ron Feldman's Lost Dutchman Forum:

Dutchman Forum

Depending on how long you want to go out, you might check with Ron Feldman and his OK Corral. He is the only person legally allowed to pack anyone into the Superstition Wilderness Area.

Ron Feldman's OK Corral

Can't think of a better way to see the Supers, and Ron is a loooong time Dutch Hunter. Ron is the guy on the lead horse in the splash picture on his web page. His two sons Josh and Jesse are the Cowboy Hat wearing guys on "Ice Cold Gold".

When you are out there, I highly advise a trip to the old mining town of Goldfield. Its owned by Bob Schoose (his son Gator is also on Ice Cold Gold). Very nice guy and knows everything you would want to learn about hard rock mining and the Supers.

Goldfield Ghost Town

I know I sound like a member of the Apache Junction Tourist Board, but I get no kickbacks nor am I associated in any way with any business in the area. I just love going there and for the small amount of time I am not in the mountains, I like to visit a few places and people.

Hope to see you there - Mike

The Lost Dutchman Rendezvous is usually the last weekend of October every year. You should make it out this year. The really old Dutch Hunters are dying out every year. In the last couple of years we have lost Tracy Hawkins and Ernie Provence. They were the last two people alive that had actually seen the gold bar that Harry France showed them as proof of his finding a cave with stacks of gold bars, to get them to help him find it. They never could find it.

Tom Kollenborn and Bob Corbin are still with us. Tom always shows up for the Rendezvous. I think Bob said he might be there this year.

Mike

This is from the MineLab Manual (read the manual) GPZ 7000

 

Page 62

http://www.minelab.com/__files/f/262220/4901-0176-1%20Inst%20Manual%20GPZ%207000%20EN.pdf

 

Type Li-Ion Rechargeable Battery Pack

Output Voltage Li-Ion: 7.2V DC

Capacity Li-Ion: 72 Wh

Run Time 8 hours

Weight Li-Ion pack: 370 g (0.82 lb)

So, at 72wh and a run time of 8 hours (maximum), That's about an 850-950 milliamp current draw. Any electronics with a 1amp current rating would work, but 3amp would be bullet proof. 

That part is easy, but we still need to find the sweet spot where we can input the highest voltage possible without tripping the breaker.

Mike

Steve Herschbach Edit 5/3/2015 Official Minelab Statement on Battery Options for GPZ 7000 http://www.minelab.com/emea/customer-care/product-notices?article=271570 Copy Below

More than just the specimen. Like I said in the story; Imagine a vein of that same ore, 18 inches wide that went for 210 feet before pinching out!

Mike

Tom,

I will tell you that there is NOPLACE too difficult to hike into or detect. There are difficult places, but everywhere is accessible. Dowsing silver in the East end of the Supers is not hard to do, since EVERY Silver Mine near the Supers is on the East end of the Mountains (Silver King, Silver Chief, etc etc etc), I could take my finger and point to any spot East of Miner's Needle and probably find silver.

Yes, since the 1800s, a couple of hundred (known) people have died there (even recently), but guess what? THOUSANDS of people hike all through the Supers every year with no problems except maybe snakes, bark scorpions, heat, lack of water, 

I know Bob Corbin. He was the longest serving Attorney General ever for the State of Arizona. He was a long time Dutch Hunter. His best stories are about Celeste Marie Jones that had a feud with a guy named Ed Piper both of whose camps were at the base of Weaver's Needle. That eventually led up to the only known REAL western style gunfight in modern times. One of Jones' men named Robert Ste. Marie ambushed Ed Piper on a trail. They both drew, but Piper (who was waaaay older than Ste Marie) got the drop on him and killed Ste Marie. After that, when Corbin and his aide were visiting Jones at her camp, she asked him to find a hit man to kill Piper. Being a State Prosecuting Atty, Bob never had anything more to do with her after that.

Mike

No need to worry about torching the GPZ. When Steve hit his with 8 1.5v Alkalines (12volts) it would have immediately fried if there wasn't an overvoltage/overamp circuit breaker built in. 

Use something like the regulator I posted. Start at 7.4v just to make sure everything works, then creep up the voltage something like .2v at a time until you get to the point that trips the circuit breaker, then back it off, and you know the voltage limit (or you could just call the techs at Minelab and ask if they will tell you). HAHAHA

I would be very interested to find out the voltage specifics and the amp draw for the GPZ. With that knowledge, I could easily put together a spare battery or maybe even a super long duration battery for it. Pretty soon, a new battery technology will be taking over this kind of thing. Aluminum Ion Batteries. Each cell is 2volts. A full charge in about 60 seconds. Because of the new chemistry, ZERO chance of fire or explosions as with Lithium Ion or Lithium Polymer. Can't wait.

Mike

G'Day Dave,

Sometimes companies are in a hurry to get a product to market, and don't initially provide a good source of ancillary equipment. I think that might be the case with the GPZ. A $10,000(US) detector hits the world market with NO accessory coils available? You would think they should provide several coils in varying shapes and sizes to accommodate the type of detecting and terrain almost anybody would encounter. Where is the 4"-6" elliptical for those heavily brushy areas?

When that happens, its up to the end user to find ways to make things work in the interim, until the factory catches up.

Take Care - Mike

this story is completely worthless with out directions to said mine.

Maybe you missed the name in quotes? (Rogers Spring)? 

Mike

There has been a very neat story floating around about a little mine found in The Superstition Wilderness Area. This is a story that got no publicity until a writer and Lost Dutchman Mine Hunter named Jack San Felice wrote about it in a book a few years ago. Jack has always said he believes this mine was The Lost Dutchman. Very few details have ever been made public about the dig. 

The story goes, that the area was located in the 1950s but for whatever reason was not exploited for many years (as so many other incredible lost mine stories go). It was a pit mine that ran about 90 feet deep. It was smack dab in the middle of an area that had a bunch of working silver mines in the late 1800s. Because it was in the SWA (Superstition Wilderness Area), and closed to claim location since 1984, any exploitation had to be VERY secret. This mine was supposedly secretly worked during the Summer months of 1997-1999. They dug the mine from its original 90 foot depth to 300 feet deep. Most people thought it was just a silver mine like all the others in the area (Roger's Spring). Over the years, little tidbits have leaked out. Things like some of the people THOUGHT to be involved claiming they had found the Lost Dutchman. If true, that COMPLETELY discounts the silver mine idea (except we all know gold is often found in pockets in silver veins/mines). 

All a very interesting story, UNTIL a few days ago, when a picture started making the rounds:

This cabbage ball sized chunk of rock that dreams are made of is claimed to be from this Pit Mine. 

Jacob Waltz claimed that his mine contained two veins of material:

1. 18 inch thick vein of white and rose quartz shot through with about 30% gold content.

2. 8 inch thick vein of gray volcanic tuff with visible gold that was very soft and could be scraped out with bare hands. 

You miners imagine how much money is involved if they dug 210 feet of ore like this in an 18 inch thick vein!

Just a little something to get everybody's mouth watering!

Enjoy - Mike

Exactly what I was thinking. From the looks of them, the GF60 looks to be very similar to the Xterra 305. Probably a little overlap there, but the GF will be much easier to stick in a rucksack and drag around.

The GF60 will in no way come close to the XTerra 705 as it doesn't look like it will have any prospecting specific operations. Just very good and very packable general detecting machines.

Mike

You can also use this (my absolute favorite) USGS Circular #1178:

1998 Assessment of Undiscovered Deposits of Gold, Silver, Copper, Lead, and Zinc in the United States

Download the 180MB FULL REPORT

It explains most of what you want to know about the different geologies in the United States that hosts the five biggest paying minerals (Gold, Silver, Copper, Lead, and Zinc). It has maps and goes into as much detail as you could want.

Mike

Here is a good site for information on batteries:

BATTERY UNIVERSITY

Mike

Folks,

Here is your easy remedy;

It is a 22mm x 17mm DC Voltage Regulator. It has a little potentiometer to adjust voltage from 4.5v - 28v DC. It will handle up to 3amps of load. My guess is that the GPZ has a little circuit breaker built in that trips when voltage over a certain level is applied. Because it is adjustable, you can play with it until you find out exactly what that threshold is.

DC Voltage Regulator

Very inexpensive and will 99% fit inside the battery holder..

Mike

One thing to keep in mind about military footwear is that several companies manufacture footwear for the military, but they also manufacture for civilians. For a Military Contract, everything must be USA Made. Several boot makers have separate sections of their websites for military and civilian sales. So, one person's Converse Rapid Response Boots may have been made in China, while someone else's may have been USA Made.

Military Boots made for the military will have labels stating "MADE IN USA". The same company will make the exact same boots in China. The biggest difference is the Quality Control. The Military Contract "Made in USA" boots will cost considerably more, but that is the difference between the same "LOOKING" boots wearing out in three months and three years.

Best - Mike

I put eco-friendly stickers on mine, so BLM Rangers think I am a tree hugging hiker. 

"LEAVE ONLY FOOTPRINTS"

"SAVE OUR WILDERNESS"

"EARTH LOVER"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Mike

Thanks Steve. Just wondering if anybody had ever seen it done.

I was actually going to get an SDC, but since I see that they are being combined with GPXs for sale, I put things off until I find out more about the 7000. 

I have had my original SD2000 since 1997, that Ismael modded. I got a stock backup about ten years ago. The mods did two things that made it easy to use:

1. Got rid of the warble (running it at 8 volts)

2. More sensitive to smaller gold (adj freqs)

Thanks Again - Mike

After reading a quote from Steve that older VLF Detectors will perform much the same as newer ones (just without some bells and whistles), I jumped and got a Goldmaster 4B for $250. 

I know the adjustable frequency control is there for the detector to play nice with other White's Detectors in the area. Has anybody ever (to y'alls knowledge) ever modded one for a lower frequency range so that it would (conceivably) go deeper? 

One of the popular mods for a Minelab SD2000 was to add extra frequencies so it would perform better on smaller nuggets. I would be interested in going the opposite way on my Goldmaster. 

Any information is greatly appreciated.

Thanks - Mike

Guess I can't ask for much more than y'all have all given.

Still in a bit of a quandary though, as the ground I hunt in runs the gamut from low to extremely high mineralization (like I said, I hunt from Norcal down into Mexico). I guess that since the SDC (by all accounts) is worlds better than the XTerra in highly mineralized ground, that is where I am leaning. I don't always hunt in highly mineralized ground, but when I do, I want the best possible chance for success at what I am doing.

Thanks All - Mike

Fred,

No offense taken. I guess that if it boiled down to a legal description, it would technically be a hobby for me as well. I have a normal job that allows me to get what equipment I need to do what I want. It has paid off pretty well for me from time to time though, and I have been fortunate enough to have met several people whose great great grandchildren will never have to work because of finds made. That's what keeps me going this during the long stretches that I work sites before making any decent finds. Depending on the site, I have a lot of research that has to be done: mining claim history, mineralogy, geology. All that helps to pinpoint (as much as possible) the portion of a mountain range that is most likely to contain the old mine/ledge/etc I am trying to locate. Then sometimes I spend several days a month for a few years wearing out boot leather. Sometimes I get lucky, sometimes I don't. But all that said, I still look at this as more of a business than a hobby. My definition of what I do is basically: If there was not a reasonable chance of making a lot of money doing what I do, I would not be doing it. 

GS,

In theory I agree with you 100%, but in practice I think an in-situ test would have to be done in a good producing patch so as to have a large number of hits to test on. I think a nice patch can be man made by placing pieces at different angles and under varying depths of rock, littering the patch with hot rocks, etc.

Thanks - Mike

There are a few people that have been around the forums for a long time, and I trust their opinions (ChrisR, SteveH, Eric Foster, Carl Moreland, and the like). I mostly post on TNet and Geotech. I peek in on Finds and several Aussie Prospecting Forums. Been a member of minelabmods.com for a long time as well, and correspond with Ismael from time to time. Since Minelabs are so much more expensive in OzLand, they usually have a good take on things.

Thanks - Mike

 

I think your question has been addressed as far as possible on a forum. Chris has indicated that there are highly mineralized / hotrock areas where this unit will improve small gold detection over a VLF unit in such conditions. 

 

The X-Terra’s versatility, comparably lighter weight, and lower price are secondary considerations if it doesn’t get the job done to your satisfaction. By comparison, the SDC 2300 is more a niche instrument… but it is designed to deal with higher mineralization / hotrocks while improving the detection of small gold, character gold, and gold specie compared to other PI units currently on the market.

 

In addition to the comments above, I suggest you contact a reputable dealer such as either Rob Allison’s Detectors at 623.362.1459 (office) 602.909.9008 (cell) or Arizona Outback at 1-928-777-0267.  Discuss your concerns and see if you can get a side-by-side demonstration of these units over some planted targets at one their instruction outings. This ought to help you decide whether or not the SDC 2300 looks like a worthwhile acquisition for what you are doing.

 

Jim.

 

Thanks Jim H,

A buddy of mine is a Minelab Dealer. Bought my original SD2000 and Excal from him in 1997. 

The reason I posed the question on a forum in the first place was just to see if anybody had actually worked with both (either side by side or individually), and was willing to come out and say either "Spend the extra money, its waaaaaay better!" or "Save your money. Its better but not that much better."

Thanks - Mike

Chris,

It meant "I understand you" as in "I got your meaning". In rereading it, I see that it might be taken in a different light than intended. Sorry.

Makes all the sense in the world though. Just because money is not my main and final deciding factor, does not mean that it doesn't play a role in my decision making. I could spend $80,000 on a Land Rover Defender 110, but my County Classic and Discovery will take me everywhere the 110 would at 1/10 the price (and I don't worry about getting desert pinstripes). Most of the places I hunt have either never seen a human, or the last people there weren't using electronics to look for gold/silver. That means that I am not detecting beat up patches like Rich Hill or one of the many well known GPAA/LDMA Claims. If I were trying to squeeze stuff out of places that have been well detected before, I would have a GPX5000, because that would be necessary to get what is left in those places (IMHO). As it is, I have a modded SD2000, and a factory SD2000 (backup). They do well at getting gold at depth. Am I missing gold? Probably, but nobody I know has gone behind me and gotten anything significant. If someone had gone over my tracks with a GPX and dug anything that I would have been embarrassed to miss, bet your a** I would have to upgrade.   

Shelton,

The ATX is an option. I just don't have a lot of experience with Garrett products. I am waiting to see some more long term owner reviews. 

Fredmason,

Maybe to you, detectors are toys. To me they are simply tools that help me make money. I don't coin shoot, and I don't relic hunt. I mostly chase down old Spanish/Mexican Mines in the desert and mountains. My main tools are my eyes, a gold pan, a rock pick, and a selection of metal detectors. 

Klunker,

The "But Minelab Says..." was a joke. I know what they put on their website, but I also know the difference between advertising hype and the truth. I know that the SDC will outperform the XTerra (especially in highly mineralized ground). I understand PI and VLF, and the advantages PI has. 

Again, my simple question:

Its a given that the SDC will outperform the XTerra. So lets plant some different items (flakes, pickers, nuggets, specimens) at the limit of the SDC in mineralized ground. How many of those will the XTerra see? If the difference is that great, then I will jump on the SDC. Forget all the extraneous info (how often do I detect, where do I detect, budget, etc). Lets just look at the SDC in the MOST favorable conditions for it, then see how much better it is than the XTerra. If it is THAT much better, then so be it! I'm in!

Mike

HAHAHA I gotchya

But Minelab says:

 

The specialised Prospecting Mode has improved sensitivity making the detector more sensitive to small target signals. The Prospecting Mode can be used in highly mineralised, 'difficult' areas. The high frequency Double-D coil that comes standard with the X-TERRA 705 Gold Pack offers advantages, as its great at handling these conditions.

HAHAHA

Budget is not that much of a concern. In this price range, if the SDC would considerably outperform the XTerra, then I could rationalize making room for it. I guess what I would like to see is a head to head evaluation between the two. Take a variety of nugs, flakes, and specimens, plant them at the extreme depth the SDC will see them, and see how many the XTerra will see as well. For that matter, it would be nice to do a kind of "King of the Ring" Test. Plant a test patch and run all the gold machines over it. See what finds what. I know that the GPX5K will kill, but how different are the Eureka, SDC2300, and XTerra705? Just a thought.

Mike

Thanks Chris. 

I understand what you say completely. I do hunt fairly often. Mostly in the California, Arizona, Baja, and Sonora Areas. The reason I got my old XTerra 70 way back when, was because it was advertised as a way to avoid carrying around my clunky SD2000 (its an Ismael modded SD). I mostly used it for carrying around and exploring new areas due to its' weight. I would bring a pan as well, and if I found some little stuff (with a pan or detector), I would come back with the big gun (so to speak), looking for bigger and deeper targets.

I haven't had to completely submerge it, although I do dunk the coil and it gets rained on sometimes.

I have seen nugs from the places I hunt from tiny flakes up to thumb size (biggest are mostly in Northern Mexico). Although I haven't spent a whole lot of time in Mexico of late! HAHAHA

My main concern is if I bought the XTerra 705 Gold Pack, would I miss a significant enough amount of smaller stuff to warrant buying a machine that costs $3000 more? I have to admit, that I will try about anything that I believe will do what I need, I am a "Minelab Guy". I've had a few Excals (since the original horseshoe coil to a 1000), Quattro, XTerra 70 GP, and 2 SD2000s. If Minelab made a Two-Box, I would not likely not own my two Fisher Geminis.

Just for a second though, forget all the extraneous details. Just look at head to head performance differences between the XT705GP (in Prospect Mode) and the SDC2300. Let's say I am wandering the Clipper Mountains in Mojave, Ca, prospecting to find the Lost Schofield Gold Ledge. Too hot to dry pan the washes (115+), so I decide to swing a detector. Would the SDC2300 outperform the XTerra 705 so significantly, that I would say to myself "WHEW! I'm glad I spent that extra $3000"?

Thanks - Mike

I have seen a ton of ATX vs SDC2300 and ATX vs GPX5000, and a lot more. What I have not seen is a comparison of the SDC2300 and the XTerra 705 Gold Pack.

I had an XTerra 70 Gold Pack that I just sold. I was planning on getting the SDC2300, but when I consider all things, I wonder if the SDC2300 is worth the extra money? I know the XTerra will have an edge in a few areas:
 

• Versatility: Xterra can use multiple coils for different types of hunting and varying depths (with different frequencies)
• Price: Depending on performance of SDC2300, does it REALLY warrant a $3000 price difference?
• Weight: XTerra= 2.5lbs vs SDC= 5.1lbs

The reason for this thread is that I have a couple of SD2000 Gold Machines. I love them, and have learned all their little idiosyncrasies over the years. The XTerra with Gold Pack (10x5 18.75khz coil) was designed for prospecting small gold at shallow depths. This seems like the same thing the SDC2300 is designed for. I know all about the differences between PI and VLF. I am even willing to accept the SDC2300 as being superior in performance, but would I REALLY be better off spending almost $4000 for a machine that seems to be designed for the same purpose as a $1000 machine?

HELP!

Thanks - Mike