amergin

I am very impressed with the High trash setting, and am trying to figure out how it is weighted

you would think it had low sensitivity and high discrimination therefore would lead to less dept and more iron masking in thick iron areas at homesites

but it actually performs to the contrary of my expectations.

it goes very deep up to 12 inches and the discrimation level dose not interfere with separating iron from small non ferrous items

I was using my equinox in all metal mode and my friend had his MX Sport high trash mode, we  where at a colonial homesite, he has getting mixed signal of iron and a high tone and number

he dug 5 big hand made square nails up to 6", and was still getting the good signal , when i cam over with the equinox in multi frequency  all I was getting was iron, minus signals, with a flash of 11

but no enough to want to dig, and I predicted it was probably a false from a bent nail

he kept going and eventually t 10" deep amongst more nails he pulled a penny

My equinox never sensed this coin, yet high trash on single frequency spotted it at the onset and stuck to it like glue until it was finally retrieved.

I would love to know the set up and weighting behind this mode some i could apply some to my equinox.

On 3/11/2018 at 3:37 PM, jessadr said:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076X4P9N3/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I ordered it > It works great

if you got it

just wondering if 52"  will cover 15" coil attached ( detector should be 51") ,

also can you use it as backpack with handle son on one or two shoulders thanks

On 12/4/2018 at 11:51 AM, EL NINO77 said:

Amergin.... I have devoted some time to this problem to test : On Park1, Park2, and Beach2: I have set the usable setting: 

On  coarse iron  ... you have to set the Iron Bias to a minimum of 7-8 to remove phantom tones .. and from the high recovery rate 6-7,8 settings, keep the separation acceptable to a small 6 "coil.

option1. Program Park1, sense 15_20, iron bias 7, recovery speed 6-7, discrimination accept -3do40,

option2.Program Park2, sens15-20, iron bias 7-8 .., recovery speed 6-7, discrimination accept -3do40 ..,

option3.program Beach2: sens 20-23, iron bias 7, recovery speed 6-7, discrimination accept -3 to 40 ...

Thank you so much for all this, a lot of time and work much appreciated

I will run each scenarios over the hunted out site and see what happens

On 12/4/2018 at 10:54 AM, Chase Goldman said:

Amergin - have you rolled back and confirmed the sites are producing again?  That would basically be a confirmation of your theory.

Thats what others have done to great success, I have resisted on the principal that the manufacturer has to address it, but I want to find stuff so I plan to do it this weekend

 with current upgrade on Tuesday went back to my hunted out (11" coil) site and went over it using all the tips and tricks etc that this forum advised, with no luck.

this was one of the sites I mentioned earlier       "I did upgrade and  had about 30% left on  each of the 2 sites and BLANK, just sold nail signals,"

the next step is to roll back and do it again and see what it produces if it picks up where I left off prior to upgrade then it proves the problem exists,  my friend just did it and said 

"Yeah it was pretty bad. I would say ~75% of my high tones were iron in all shapes and sizes. I almost sold my 6" coil, but decided to try rolling the software back first. After that, the 6" works great."

On 12/1/2018 at 12:06 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

I have not even posted on this thread and still you take a swing at me? That’s ok Matt... my opinion of you is very low also, so the feeling is mutual. If you think problems get buried on this forum then your ignorance is on clear display. I would nuke threads like the one we are posting on if that were the case.

As far as never having a negative thing to say about Minelab...

Steve thank you for this forum, and all you insight, it is a great help

On 12/1/2018 at 12:29 PM, Chase Goldman said:

Amergin - I have some comment/questions on what you are calling "2 directional falses" but it has nothing to do with pre or post update.  Since post-upgrade experiences are all you want posted in this thread, then I will hold my tongue.  Let me know, however, if you want to talk about your setup (5 tones - wouldn't necessarily be my choice if falsing was an issue), what you consider a false, what other information you take into account when you hit a questionable signal (e.g., tonal quality not just tone, TID stability, etc.), how you interrogate the target (AM, pinpointer, hit it with single frequency, hit it with a disparate mode, etc.).   It is not JUST about high tones in two directions, that is really just scratching the surface and without the additional information I discussed above, not sure why ML would really bother with the report as is.  Not encouraged by their recommendation to just have you do a factory reset.  I would frankly be insulted if they told me to do that.  Finally, it is great you are tallying up all the positive and negative experiences, but DO take time to listen to what other people here are saying to you regarding your setup and don't dismiss those that are having success just because that experience does not match yours or contradicts your premise that the upgrade has made things significantly worse with the small coil. Not saying there isn't an issue, post update.  Let's be clear.  I just have not had enough experience side-by-side to say one way or the other.  I perceive there may be more "falsing" but I deal with it like any other falsing and make a dig decision accordingly at that moment in time..  What I do know is that is was not something that jumped out at me as a wow this is really something that has changed post update, until others mentioned it and I paid attention to it.  I've probably said too much, but just thought I would put that out there.  Cheers.

Thank you so much, I will gladly respond, your posts are always very in-depth and I learn a lot from them

here is my current set up

 am running Field 2, 5 tones , recovery speed 6/7, no iron bias and all metal on sens 20

I drop sensitivity to 15 and go over again

When referring Iron, I am talking about primally Nails at colonial cellar holes

when I get a good tone or VDI mixed with iron I interrogate changing to 5/10/15 khz, if the signal still holds hope, I test it in gold mode and pin pointer and watch the VDI and if positive number rings longer and consistent I dig,

I check consistency from multi direction with all of above

(for more and better information I do have to venture into 50 tones, but haven't  yet)

I have a lso tested some pointers i got from this discussion on  2 new nail invested sites i had searched before, but unfortunately  no encouraging news so far

I know it is site specific, and also depends of course on what is in the ground, but after the update it stop sifting through nails and finding items,

I am also aware it is no walk in the park and iron masking and metal detecting technology to-date is limited 

I had great success with coil at a the start, I could not believe how it delivered on hunted out sites exactly as promised, I had 2 sites I was working back over with 6" and each day on each site was better than the next, I did upgrade and  had about 30% left on  each of the 2 sites and BLANK, just sold nail signals, and an increase in large iron objects which was a good thing that included axes and colonial Cutlery etc. that did not ring previously.

I still take it out at every nail invested site  and Since upgrade had no success whatsoever cherry picking, it was as if part of the machine went missing. Rolling back seems the best solution, but finding a silver half dollar 1905 on edge at 16" on the side wall of the plug hole cant be ignored with my 11" on an area I had check 4 times before in both park and field mode

I posted on Treasurenet and did a search and noticed others where posting about the exact same issue, I have invited them to share there experiences on this forum , but the ignorance here has turned them off

I had to stop posting on this site because of the ignorance, and defensive tone from some users, if you read my responses I was very interested in what everybody had to say, I never disagreed with anybody just lost patience when people did not read my initial question and started ranting about other things ,  just got turned off when I was being attacked by people who did not want to accept Me and others where having genuine problem.

The engineers have taken a great interest in resolving this, despite what people said about how wrong it was to go to them, I have a  saying"the squeaky wheel gets the oil" I don't put anybody on a pedestal and if I am a paying customer I feel the right to point out flaws to make the experience better for all users, and will continue to do so. I don't care about there time being wasted, and they didn't neither, when I seen others experiencing the same issue, and not me alone it was time to report.

 I just want a better machine for us all , which is more important, rather than mulling around saying nothing and being miserable.

 As this is about a specific issue that I want to stay focused on

Moving forward I am not reading or responding to anything except good advice, and past experiences I can feed to engineers that don't involve ignorance or off topic nonsense

 "please post your experiences here, if you've experienced bad 2 directional falses after upgrade with 6" coil in Iron

1 hour ago, dsrtdwg1 said:

I read the entire thread this morning. My 800 has the update,with the 6 on it I am digging a bit more iron at depth.

The flip side is that it finds previously missed high conductors in high trash areas, thats a fair exchange in my book. There seems to 

be a difference in tone quality, a slight shortening or clip when it falses.I am keeping mine as there are no cellar holes or CW battle fields

here in Southern California.

great thank you, good to know

On 12/1/2018 at 6:20 AM, Alluminati said:

You know, somehow this was so predictable, that you would turn out to be a blow-hard, when approached with a bit of common sense.

Perhaps it was a slip on your, when you revealed that your ultimate goal with this thread is to be "right" about something, rather then just an average detectorist going through a iron spell.

These quotes you posted don't correlate what you are saying,  first thing they do is roll back the firmware?, not one of those people specifically stated they even tried to turn down the sensitivity. For Pete's sake the last quote is from this forum and says it does the same thing with the 11" lol.

So now what, engineers contact all these people to make sure they weren't running 20+ in iron?
Engineers go and dig up your site and make sure your not hitting flat iron and horseshoes all the while claiming 2" straight cut nails?

The benefit of the doubt has been lost on this one. Telling me to stay focused, as if I was off topic, is rude. It's one thing to disagree, but when you start playing these games you lose some credibility.

 

 

can you not read what i originally wrote 

"I am running Field 2, 5 tones , recovery speed 6/7, no iron bias and all metal on sens 20

I drop sensitivity to 15 and go over again"

again stay focused and read the question in my original post , 

also regarding being right or wrong  as i have previous posted and you did not read?

so stay focused and read all posts in detail

Clarification

This discussion is not about who is right or wrong, or if you are not experiencing it it cannot exist

I simply said   "please post your experiences here, if you've experienced bad 2 directional falses after upgrade with 6" coil in Iron

as I want to pass it on to them, I appreciate all the advice and reading others experiences, Lets stay focused,

The discussion on Dectector technology and Iron in general or users expecting a free luch is not this discussion

its great that some people are not experiencing , but some people are, but it would be no reason not to buy coil

here area list of comments from other forums from people having similar issues:

10 minutes ago, Alluminati said:

My point is you had a problem with the first firmware, so what are you comparing it too? Do you have a time machine in which you've tried a future version?

I said I haven't used mine much, but you haven't asked me how many hours. Having a debate about who is entitled to have an opinion about a coil without that information is silly. Like going off half-cocked to the engineers.

If we are 5 pages in and still isn't apparent what the problem is, how do you expect the engineers to do anything for you with such poorly explained information.  Bunch of rumors, I read this, and this guy did that, wheres the beef?, give them/us something to work with.

 

who had a problem with original factory setting, can you go back read original posts

if your not reading properly no wonder your upset, 

its great others are not having  a problem, and also great you don't want to believe others are,

its a nice day out and I have better things to like swinging my machine  

as i am not interested only if you are having problem

4 minutes ago, Alluminati said:

In your first post you said you were "still" having problems with the 6" coil after update.

 

yes its not working for me and others ,  whats your point in relation to the inital question at the start of this discussion

, you said you haven't used yours much so when you do let us know if its fine, hopefully it is

Thanks

Clarification

This discussion is not about who is right or wrong, or if you are not experiencing it it cannot exist

I simply said   "please post your experiences here, if you've experienced bad 2 directional falses after upgrade with 6" coil in Iron

as I want to pass it on to them, I appreciate all the advice and reading others experiences, Lets stay focused,

The discussion on Dectector technology and Iron in general or users expecting a free luch is not this discussion

its great that some people are not experiencing , but some people are, but it would be no reason not to buy coil

here area list of comments from other forums from people having similar issues:

User 1
The promise of the 6" coil seeing through nails was true, I experienced it myself first hand on sites i already cleaned out with 11" coil, but the upgrade turned the now obsolete 6" into an Iron lover

User 2
I've found some nice silver with the 6", but I can't handle the constant nail falsing. Iron Bias or not, it happens too frequently with it. So I had to ask myself, what am I really gaining with the 6"? The only positive for me is the phenomenally light weight and balance. All else, the stock coil seems to separate near equally when adjustments are made to recovery and swing speed. Also, I have to swing twice as much to cover the same ground with the 6. So I've decided to ditch the 6". I wanted to like the coil so badly, but it's been mostly a $180 nail finder for me. YMMV.

User 3
pre upgrade I found the 6" great when I got it on Iron filled colonial cellar sites , I had already hunted out with 11" it did as it promised find smaller good items amongst iron that I did not detect with multiple visits with 11" in many different modes and settings now after the upgrade, it falses badly on iron and sequels high pitched loudly only big iron I seriously thinking of reversing the up-grade before using 6" on a site I hunted out with 11" and then loading up grade when starting at a new site with 11"

User 4
Roll it back! I experienced the same with the update, that the 6" falsing was to the point of absurdity. It would also high-tone on moderately mineralized rocks. Rolling it back cut the 6" iron falsing down and eliminated the rock falses completely, but it still falses on nails too frequently here in my ground. I think I mentioned it elsewhere, but it's almost like the 6" coil needs its own dedicated program. Not sure that is possible, but one can wish.

User 5
Not sure what they did with the upgrade other than fix the obvious issues, but we need another version to cure these iron problems we are now having.

User 6
I sold mine,      it worked great pre upgrade, Now its useless, falses, even when I go over signal from multi directions signal is solid, I dig and it’s a nail

 User 7
 Thanks I agree , it would be nice to have a dedicated program for 6" with upgrade as I am very happy with 11" after upgrade,  11" definitely sharper especially when you run back over a spot you've hunted at low recovery and high sensitivity swinging slowly the smalls pop sort of acts like a 6" should

 User 8
I'm having a love/hate relationship with the 6" coil at the moment. I love that it is a deep laser beam, but hate that my nails have increased dramatically. I've tried to mitigate this with iron bias, sens, balance, and all other settings, but there's just no way around it. I'm being very picky too, but these are solid, consistent, repeatable VIDS in all directions... I've had my Nox since February and use it regularly, so I know my machine very well. It's enough of an annoyance that I am replacing my ProPointer with a Profind 35 in hopes of taking advantage of the pinpointer's iron disc. Otherwise, curious to hear other's experiences in regards to the 6" and nails.

User 9
I have the current update and only used the 6" once pre-update, and didn't dig any nails on that pre-update outing. I'm wondering if the update has made the 6" a nail magnet. The weird thing is that the nails I'm digging aren't just your typical falsing nails (bent 90's, square head, etc). They are ALL types including small 1" straight pieces. I am mostly a park1 one hunter, but have tested it across all park/field modes.

User 10
Bummer. Not sure I will keep it in the long run. I dunno. I went from digging 1 or 2 nails per hunt with the stock to ~25% nails with the 6". It's almost absurd, really, but I love the weight, balance, and depth.

User 11
The other new annoyance of the 6" is that it hits certain hot rocks as good high tones at my salt beaches. GB or not. Luckily they have a very short/crisp tone so I can usually tell. But it slows me down. Stock coil never did that.

User 12
It's almost like the 6" coil needs its own dedicated program, tailored for its size. Not sure that would ever happen, but maybe another update will resolve the crazy falsing.

User 13
Yes , sold my 6 inch coil. Gonna try another brand with a small coil to fit that part of my detecting. Thought I had it covered with the Nox 11 ,6 and Deus 9 hf coils but the 6 was disappointment after upgrade .

User1
Yes, the 6" with update is horrendous on two-way iron falsing, in my experiences. The falsing is so convincing of a good target that it is impossible to ignore. It also gives crisp high tones on hotter rocks at the beach that sound like small silver. I couldn't find any way around it, so I rolled the software back and haven't looked back. The 6" with the stock software is killer. Yeah, the depth meter is iffy, but after 9 months of using this machine, I've learned to listen for depth vs staring at the meter. Yeah, I might miss a large silver sitting perfectly 90 degrees vertically, but I'm ok with that. I'm having my best year ever using the stock software with both 11" and 6" coils. Roll it back, my dude.

User 2
As an engineer, I love the science behind this theory, but since I have two Equinoxes, I have purposely kept one dialed back to the original firmware for comparison purposes and while I have not had a chance to do exhaustive, controlled A to B comparisons, I have observed the falsing (or should I say high tone ferrous affinity) associated with the small coil and even the stock coil to be relatively slightly more pronounced with the post upgrade machine vs. pre upgrade at the same site under the same environmental conditions.  Again not scientific, I did not walk around my iron field site carrying two detectors at the same time, just observed switching off between the two over the course of back to back multi-day hunts at the same sites and my qualitative observations. The effect you describe, however, is real and affects ground noise feedback, ground phase variability, and the ground balance tracking algorithm, as well.   The enhanced halo effect in moist ground can definitely result in more falsing overall, but there is something definitely different in the way Equinox responds in this regard post upgrade.  

On 11/30/2018 at 2:52 PM, Tiftaaft said:

I have the 6" loaded on my 600 with the original firmware... hunted with it today... found a 7" War Nick in difficult soil in a trashy area next to a baseball field concession stand (you can imagine the noise there).  While I am switching back and forth between the stock and 15" on my 800.... this 6" never fails to uncover something I didn't expect.  Do I dig some iron?  yes.  Is that different than any other of 15 machines I have used... resounding no.  Your mileage may vary... but I am in no hurry to take the 6" off.  Tim.

Congratulations, thats exactly how it worked for me before up dating Firmware, I was delighted that it did as promised and found items missed after multiple visits with different settings with my 11" coil,  As the focus of this discussion is seeing who has noticed a difference after firmware let me know if you up grade and see if it all changes, it appears some people are fine and some have really seen a difference, I will post comments from another forum also I know another user sold his due to the same problem I am having

Keep up the good work

Byran well done, I happy you haven't experienced what me and other are going through

On 11/21/2018 at 12:07 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

MX Sport did not make the cut for my list of 21st Century Metal Detectors due to the lack of built in wireless headphone capability. An arbitrary requirement on my part for sure, but one I think a lot of people would agree with. In my opinion it is past time that any top end detector include wireless headphone capability as a standard feature.

Very good point, and if you buy a wireless set up for MX sport your paying close to Equinox 800 with headphones and all the benefits of new tecnology

On 11/26/2018 at 9:51 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

Hi Amergin,

I hope a lot of other users that detect in colonial sites will post something soon. I tested the oldest nails I have (late 1800s to early 1900s square nails from Colorado mining sites) with the 6" coil and did not notice any falsing or iron wrap around in either zero discrimination Field 2 or preset discrimination Field 2 with the settings you posted. On modern nails the story is completely different. In zero discrimination Field 2 I got some very minor falsing or what I think is more likely iron wrap around or alloy detection on every third or fourth sweep, single beeps, in the 18 to 21 or zinc penny range. With factory preset discrimination Field 2 I got fairly constant two directional beeps again in the 18 to 21 range. All of this testing was done at 2" depth in my 4 bar, 85 ground balance dirt test container. I know a lot of people wouldn't bother with the zinc penny range. For me though, I think I have found some of my most interesting and unusual finds in that range! Hope this helps.

 

Jeff

Thanks Jeff Good write up, if you have time test 6" coil with up grade and rolling back upgrade   it at a location with over 150 year old discintergrated iron and nails in soil

On 11/28/2018 at 7:02 AM, Chase Goldman said:

Randy,

The reason why many relic hunters here in the US shy away from using any iron bias is that it has been shown to exacerbate iron masking of non-ferrous targets in thick iron situations.  I think the downside is that you will then get a lot more falsing and just have to take your medicine then and dig all repeatable falses.  Or you can take the iron bias route and take the chance of missing a masked target.  In these tough bed-o-nails situation it's a pick your poison proposition. 

Amergin-

So the message I have for amergin is, no one said treasure hunting is easy.  The hobby is really all about managing tradeoffs whether it is machine performance quirks, soil conditions, or trash.  Sounds like your best solution (aka tradeoff) is to just roll back the update when using the 6" if you found the perceived pre-update performance to be acceptable and hope 6" performance improves at the next update.  HTH

 

Thanks good advice, it is a pick your poison situation when dealing with various setting working against each other, But a marked change of performance before and after upgrade is the subject here and making Minicab aware of the situation

 a lot of people have rolled back for that reason, I am planing on rolling back and forth when interchanging coils when I find the time to do so in the field. But having Minelab so responsive to issues welcomes the opportunity for us users to seek a possible cure rather than a band aid

54 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

As an engineer, I love the science behind this theory, but since I have two Equinoxes, I have purposely kept one dialed back to the original firmware for comparison purposes and while I have not had a chance to do exhaustive, controlled A to B comparisons, I have observed the falsing (or should I say high tone ferrous affinity) associated with the small coil and even the stock coil to be relatively slightly more pronounced with the post upgrade machine vs. pre upgrade at the same site under the same environmental conditions.  Again not scientific, I did not walk around my iron field site carrying two detectors at the same time, just observed switching off between the two over the course of back to back multi-day hunts at the same sites and my qualitative observations. The effect you describe, however, is real and affects ground noise feedback, ground phase variability, and the ground balance tracking algorithm, as well.   The enhanced halo effect in moist ground can definitely result in more falsing overall, but there is something definitely different in the way Equinox responds in this regard post upgrade. 

Frankly, overall I have not seen anything that tangibly compels me to go solely with either the post or pre upgrade firmware versions.  I like that the known User Profile reset bug has been addressed in the update and low profile, high mass, high conductive coin target ID (aka as the quarter on edge issue) response has been improved but perhaps with the subtle downside of falsing being introduced, but I don't think they "broke" anything.  To me, the upgrade is kind of a move sideways from a performance standpoint rather than a full on improvement.  Perhaps that is a function of the Equinox performance being pretty damn good and dialed-in out of the gate, so all ML can do with SW performance tweaks is nibble around the edges which just results tradeoffs while fixing fringe "issues" like this low probability on-edge coin thing and depth meter performance which is inherently unreliable outside of dime-sized targets, anyway.  Regardless, looking forward to the next upgrade.

Thank you this is great, and on subject,   I am in communication with the service in Au and they asked me to do factory reset and do some tests,    

I welcome any new tests from users with 6" before and after upgrade in Heavy colonial iron nail situations

so I can send all feed back to them:

Hello

I have spoken with our engineering team in regards to this, they are currently doing some testing and if you can, can you please try a factory reset on your detector (turn the detector off then push and hold the power button for around 10 seconds. The screen will show the letters FP once it has been reset.)

If you could please try this then do some testing and email us back if there are any changes in performance or not?

 

 

Kind Regards,

 

Minelab Service

Hello GB

This is the the set i bought

maybe seller on eBay who i think is the author  can explain the differences etc

let me know what you find out

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Forgotten-Coins-of-the-North-American-Colonies-25th-Anniversary-Blacksmiths/253989092083?hash=item3b22edfaf3:g:ht0AAOSwB3BaRa~m:rk:1:pf:0

I just came across this Book "Forgotten Coins of the North American Colonies" on eBay
So I decided to buy it with the CD. 

It just arrived yesterday and I am floored at this extensive study of colonial counterfeits, the book is nearly 1" thick and the coins are reproduced over sized, it a great inexpensive reference guide, and an in-depth education into how raw it was to have to manage during those early years

"One of the design engineers said a Sov would be like using 6IB.  So I kind of use that as my guide since it really hates iron.....any more IMO is over kill for most hunting. "

Please explain  Thanks  SOV, 6IB,IMO

Randy

thank you, I will definitely try all that you advise,

see my answer above to EL NIN077 that notes all the other precautions and tests and object unmasking techniques i run on site.

I dont agree with your advice on Iron bias or recovery speed, Both i have field tested and get better results the way i run it

see this explanation of Iron Bias , which is exactly as i Experience it, and recovered coins at 0 when i previously went over at 3 and missed

http://thesilverfiend.com/minelab-equinox-iron-bias-explained/

And lowering recovery speed makes the masking worse, even if I gain more depth.

using "shifting Technique at sensitivity 15 is tried and tested method to go back over already searched area on same day, as it cuts out the exaggerated sounding of iron and lets non Ferrous peak through which I  then investigate using Gold 1 VDI

i am open to all advice as I far from Know everything, but as you can read I have been quite thorough with my field testing, object inquiry and un masking techniques  to date which enabled me to be  successful with 6" up to upgrade, now it has become obsolete to me, that is why I have brought to the attention to the engineers at Mine lab In AU.

EL NIN077

thank you,

I will definitely try all that you advise,

in addition to my set up posted earlier

I only do test on location at cellar hole where the noise cancel, ground balance and set up is true and the ground is full of mineralized aged Iron,     I run my iron Tone at 1  ,  

Even low settings of Iron Bias masks coins with a lot of nails around them and as it is only a filter I don't use it, I want to hear all the ground has to give, I also when presented with a mixed signal from iron and flashes of repeat good numbers

I test it at 20-40khz and Gold 1 both with the VCO define the metal type more accurately on VDI and expand the good signal if the object is non Ferrous

I test recovery speed between 7-4, but am aware any less makes Masking and fallsing a must.

Please note I go through all these tests and phases each time I am at a Cellar hole, with 6" coil before and after upgrade, the 6" to me now is over sensitive to iron after upgrade and has become obsolete without a patch from Mine lab

can you explain your reasoning behind using Beech 2

"edit User program: Beach2: Iron bias 9, recovery speed 8, tone break 0-2, discrimination accept from 0-2 to + 40 ... sensitivity 17-23,24 "

for me and others the 6" with update is horrendous on two-way iron falsing, in my experiences. The falsing is so convincing of a good target from may directions that it is impossible to ignore.

pre up grade
I found the 6" great when I got it on Iron filled colonial cellar sites , I had already hunted out with 11"

it did as it promised find smaller good items amongst iron that I did not detect with multiple visits with 11" in many different modes and settings

now after the up grade, it falses badly on iron a

I seriously thinking of reversing the up-grade before using 6" on a site I hunted out with 11"

and then loading up grade when starting at a new site with 11"

My current settings

I am running Field 2, 5 tones , recovery speed 6/7, no iron bias and all metal on sens 20

I drop sensitivity to 15 and go over again

When referring Iron, I am talking about primally Nails at colonial cellar holes