Edwardakis

2 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

Maybe not right now.  I will have more to say later, and I think others will, too.  I hope that includes you.

Good point.

17 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

For now, I don't want to say too much about this. I am still working with situations like the one described above. I am assuming that by "trash" you mean iron based trash.

So, this quote from the manual has really helped me. I normally use F2=0 or F2=1 unless I am in an area that has very little iron trash but the iron trash that is present are shallow bottle caps in which case I may turn it up some.

"The Iron Bias F2 Setting provides tone and Target ID response adjustment for a wider range of ferrous targets, including some types of crown cap bottle tops that Iron Bias FE is less effective for. Iron Bias F2 is best used in All Metal Mode, with iron tones audible."

I only use iron bias as a strategy for shallower, smaller iron targets. On deeper and or bigger (bigger than coins/bottle caps) iron, I have no field proof that it will help or not.

Jeff

Thank you for the information! I will keep this in mind when I go back out to my trashy practice area 😄 

17 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

Well, if that's the case I've missed it, too.  For me, iron bias is the most confusing thing about the Equinox.  I assume people who have had previous detectors (certain Minelab models, but also some White's models and possibly other manufacturers' models?) with this feature are comfortable with it.  I'm not.  Not even close.  Every time out I experiment a bit and am compiling more knowledge but I feel like I still have a long way to go.

I'm looking forward to more reports/discussions here, and I want to be a listener/reader as opposed to a speaker/writer.  I will say one thing about your thoughtful post though, and it's based upon both my limited experience but also upon what people hear have said previously:  Iron Bias isn't a magic, do all setting.  It makes some things a bit better and some things a bit worse.  If we didn't have it at all (say IB was locked at a certain value, because AFAIK it's always going to be there at some level), I don't think it would make a huge difference.  The F2 settings have a wider range (and FE is in the middle of that range) and I've been playing around with F2=0 and F2=9 (Eqx 800 terminology) and seen anywhere from no effect to moderate effect.

Ok, enough of my ramblings.  Time for others to chime in.

Afterthought:  The subject of Iron Bias has come up quite a bit since the Equinox was introduced.  Here are three threads (not exhaustive) on the subject.

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/5104-iron-bias-what-is-it/

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/6048-iron-bias/#comments

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/13285-equinox-vanquish-iron-bias-bug/

 

 

Thank you for chiming in.

I appreciate the links to other posts. this post seems to be dead probably because it was discussed already, and in great detail!

I dont expect this post to go anywher anymore seeing as it is heavily discussed elsewhere.

Again though. thanks for posting those links for me!

I wanted to start a discussion on F2 again FE in high trashy areas.

I have done a lot of research on the F2 update (I recently picked up metal detecting with my Nox 600 again at the beginning of summer and realized the new update at that time) and understand it has its ups and downs. One of the major things about it, is its supposed to help ignore bottle caps!! that is almost a holy grail in my eyes however in older trashy areas, other objects seem to be the problem most of the time, rather than bottle caps, (for me atleast)

I have recently had the pleasure of hitting a property built in the late 1800s for a whole day and unfortunatley dug up trash the whole day. It was the toughest trashiest place ive ever detected. I have tried changing settings constantly to see if I could pull up the good stuff rather than nails, scrap metals and bottle caps but to no avail. 

I even created a small 3" hole and dropped a dime in there. the Nox 600 could not hit that target, even after playing with settings and trying different things. I understand the machine fairly well but just couldnt quite wrap my head around how to deal with this place that was so trashy that I couldnt even pick up the dime I dropped in a 3" deep hole, with the detector. I assume the 6" coil would fix this issue completely but is it then pointless for me to hit extremely trashy areas like this with the 11" coil? should I just wait till I get the 6" coil and hit less trashy areas?  Maybe I was doing something incorrect.

I have seen a lot of videos in regards to the F2 update for the Nox and it seems to me that the F2 on level 3 will ignore iron more, such as bottle caps but, you will also mask the good targets as well. 

So in a very trashy area, what is the best thing to do. Use park 1. lower sensitivity, and FE at level 0?   I cant see why you would turn up iron bias if it will mask the good items and if there is iron everywhere, then every good object will get masked, am I right?

I am hoping this hasnt been discussed already but I dont have much time to look around unfortunately so I thought I would start my own discussion.

Thanks for reading.  All tips and knowledge is welcome, and appreciated 🙂

18 minutes ago, johnedoe said:

While TIDs are nice they can also cause you to miss a good target.... 

I use them as a rough reference and dig most targets in any questionable range.

We tend to get a little lazy and place too much trust in a target ID...

I would have missed this if I depended on TID as it cam in as a screw cap if I remember correctly........

415 grains of 10k

Holy crap! look at that monster. I would probably faint if I found that. Great find!

6 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I've read some people saying it isn't good at target ID's, I honestly don't know how it could be any better,

That is just insane! I would love to hear what the complaining is all about because I agree, I dont see how it can get any better. Its nice and crystal clear to me. Maybe they got a faulty machine lol.

Aside from the humor. The IDs are awesome.  Besides, the IDs are an additional feature of newer machines! I remember when I was little I would detect and have just 1 tone to play with, no screen or anything. I think I did end up getting better machines that gave me more features when I was little but I had no idea what I was doing and just dug everything up.  But now to be able to accurately guess what you are about to dig up based on a tID just increases the pleasures of the hobby.

I recently purchased the Nox 600. I will say I did a ton of research however my research did not go into the Whites so I guess I wouldnt be able to tell you which may be better in comparison however, everything you mentioned that you are looking for, the Nox 600 wont have a problem doing.

If money isnt a problem, my first thought is, get the fully waterproof machine in case you ever do need/want to go completely under water.  

The 600 has been extremely easy to just start up and go. The first time I took it out, I was able to dig up some change as well as trash of course at the park without much trouble, but my point is, its very easy to use the machine. You will still want to read through the manual and learn some tips about the machine, but as a newb myself, I assume anyone would want to do that no matter how easy the machine is to use because the more you know the better.   One of my favorite things about this machine though is the ease of use. I literally power it on, choose the mode I want to detect in, do the EMI balance, and the ground balance which takes no more than 30 seconds, and then go.

Also the ID numbers are easy to get comfortable with pretty fast. I have identified at least 90% if not more, of the coins my machine has found before digging them up.

In all honesty, I couldnt be happier with the machine and dont believe anyone would be upset with it.

On 8/21/2019 at 7:50 PM, Noah (FL) said:

Best advice is to place some common targets you want to detect near the poles and play with the settings until you can find them. Varying the distance from the poles and sensitivity of the detector will teach you what to listen for. 

Awesome advice, thank you. Good idea!

On 8/21/2019 at 12:39 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

I don't know where you live but here in Colorado the wood chip playgrounds have 6" to 1' of wood chips with a thick fabric weed barrier below that. The weed barrier is stapled into the ground along seams where the fabric overlaps. The staples are targets as are many targets below the weed barrier. I always turn my sensitivity down to 10 or less in these wood chip playgrounds, watch the depth meter carefully and only dig shallow, 6" or less, two way repeatable targets.

etc..

This was very informative and makes a lot of sense. Thank you for that. I will make sure to turn sensitivity way down next time and try again but in park 1.

Thank you!!

1 hour ago, Lacky said:

Could be rebar or something else metallic in the cement 

Yeah I can see that.

5 hours ago, Lacky said:

I'm quoting this from another thread because, why not. I already wrote it once and I'm lazy.

Next time start in park 2, scan for a couple minutes,  then switch to park 1 (remember to noise cancel etc, have to do the startup routine after each mode switch) and you will instantly see the difference.  Park 1 is specifically designed to ignore all the tiny bits of foil etc, park 2 is designed to include it (cause hey, maybe somebody wants  to search for stuff like that). Its actually a good lesson/demonstration on how much the different modes/settings change the machine. I was impressed. 

Same applies to freshwater beaches.  I was having a rough time with tons of phantomish targets everywhere,  every few square feet, none of which stayed in the scoop.  I finally realized I had accidentally switched it into park 2 after a half hour of searching. Switched back and knocked out 90% of the signals and almost all were recoverable. 

No worries about that. Good information.

This makes sense. A good learning lesson about the different modes for sure! quite impressive honestly.

Thanks for the input. I will try again!

6 hours ago, 2Valen said:

I have found if you get within 2 feet of the swings, slides or their frames it will give false signals, so I steer clear of them as much as possible. When going around the swings I hold the chains away from where I have the detector and it seems to do just fine.

Some of the hardware that they use to support the playground equipment may not always be in the area you think it is, as the legs are always further than you think.

Also I turn the sensitivity down to about 15 and my 800 gives good targets, whether it be trash or coin it is still a constant target.

Valen

Yeah I have also noticed that signals would be pretty consistent within a 2 foot range of any of the actual playground equipment, also the cement outline of the playground. Whenever the coil was about 6" away from the cement outline of the playground there was always a signal. Must be something under there around the cement!

I did have my sensitivity down to 16 I think for EMI, didnt think of going even lower. I will keep that in mind. Thank you for your response.

7 hours ago, phrunt said:

I've had the same problem before, it was little bits of tin foil all through the playground from chocolate packaging and bubble gum and so on.  I just had to notch out up to about 7 on the VDI's, that got rid of most of the annoying iffy little signals for me and I wasn't too worried about missing too much below 7... sure some fine gold will be there but most will be over 7 and it was all I could do to detect the area without going insane.

The Equinox is very sensitive to small targets, which is why it's so good for gold prospecting, even in Park 1 it can find tiny gold nuggets. 

You could even drop back to single frequency and see if it helps with the EMI / Signals, try 5 first as it will be less sensitive to small stuff like bits of foil but maybe worse for EMI so maybe 10 will be best but it's worth trying them all.

I'd be in Park 1 in that situation too, it will find jewellery no problems if it's there.  Some more experienced Playground hunters / Nox users may have more and better advice for you.

Gotcha, that makes sense. I didnt even think about cancelling out some of the IDs I guess because so many numbers pop up then leave so quickly that it didnt come to mind.

Thanks for the advice I will try again.

I was in Park 2 due to remembering "use park 2 in more dense trashed areas" so I just thought "oh this must be perfect for a playground that has foil everywhere" haha it makes sense to use Park 1 now!

Thank you for your input

Today I visited my second playground Since getting the NOX 600.  I’m getting comfortable with the machine. After reading quite a bit of the Minelab Essentials gaining new knowledge about the machine I was excited to jump back out today. I decided to hit a playground with the 1 hour that I had. This is the second play ground I have hit as of recently, both were similar, had the wood chips everywhere.

The first time, it was extremely difficult! This second time has been just as difficult even after all the new tips I’ve learned.  What happened is there were so many weak and choppy signals, practically every where. I assume this is due to trash being littered everywhere since you know, kids are there a lot and kids tend to litter more often.  It was strange that I checked half of the playground in an hour and I got not 1 good signal though.

I was on Park 2 since assuming it’s more dense with trash and I wanted to be stronger for gold jewelry, Sensitivity had to be at about 16 due to bad EMI. I made sure to auto balance and ground balance.  Is there anything else I should have done to help myself? The signals I would get would be extremely weak or it sounded as if there were targets everywhere so when I’d find one that I thought was decent I would try to pinpoint the target however when I was in pinpoint mode, it would give me 100% strong signals on an half of a sweep like 2 feet long. This made pin pointing very difficult so I wasn’t sure if it was falsing or if this is just the nature of wood chipped playgrounds.  This happened in my first playground a couple weeks ago as well. I just chalked it up as a very trashy area.

also I would lose signals after finding them. A 13 4” down would pop up for a moment then I am no longer finding that signal and instead am finding a 26 2” deep, nearby, and then that would be gone and nothing appears which was a bit confusing. This is an example of what has happened non stop with different target IDs and depths fairly consistently.

i assume this is what it’s like to run into a difficult spot for newbs such as myself so I wanted to ask, is this a common occurrence for a playground? Are they more difficult due to extremely tough signals?

Are there any tips for detecting in playgrounds that I may find useful and others that are having the same trouble?

Also I’m extremely sorry if there is another topic that covers the information that I’m asking for.

4 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Eventually, when you come across and understand what iron bias does, you'll see a similar thing.  4 settings for the 600 vs 10 for the 800, but the max setting of 4 on the 600 equals 6 on the 800.  Other differences you will notice include limitations on non-ferrous tone settings, limitations on single frequency selections, lack of the user profile button, lack of backlight adjustment, lack of included wireless audio accessories (but the 600 is wireless ready), etc.  These are all nice, but not necessarily essential "missing" features on the 600.  The 600 is a very capable detector in its own right, so you shouldn't be discouraged once you start realizing what you can and cannot do vs.the 800.  Definitely peruse the Essential Info thread and for a more comprehensive look at 600 vs. 800 features see this forum link in the essentials thread and Steve's Minelab Treasure Talk artcle on the subject, here.

Welcome and happy hunting with your 600.

Oh okay. That’s good to know regarding iron bias. Still not sure what it is but have read up on it. Sponge is still a bit to full to soak in more. I will continue to look into the Minelab Essentials. I will also read that article. 

Thank you!!

5 hours ago, Lacky said:

This is a thread on nickels,  but to make it very obvious for your situation, if you have a lake swimming area with lots of old pull tabs you should be digging all the pull tab signals, not just the 12's. Gold rings come in at the same range as pull tabs, small rings around in the 7ish range up to large rings over 20. If nobody has been willing to dig all the old pull tabs no one has dug the gold rings lost by swimmers either.

I feel like maybe we are already thinking alike about it, but as you said you are new wanted to make sure.

Thanks for the feedback,  and yeah, when I was younger detecting I would dig every signal, now that I’m older and are understanding what these machines can do, I guess I took the screen IDs as a way to figure out how to skip more and so I tried, but yeah now I understand that a number in the lower range should still be dug up if it’s hitting pull tab numbers. So that’s good to know.

Thanks!

20 minutes ago, Lacky said:

I was in the same place you are a few months ago. I have learned a ton here as well. My best advice is read lots to learn but keep the actual detecting simple. Just use the default settings, noise cancel, ground balance if needed, adjust the sensitivity down enough so you dont have constant chatter, and just detect. Listen closely to the target, then dig it up and see what it is. Pretty soon you will be guessing what's down there before you dig like the rest of us (and be wrong fairly often like the rest of us 😀)

hahah awesome. 

I will take your advice!

On 3/3/2018 at 1:57 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

I consider aluminum to be a good thing and pull tabs in particular. Why? Because it runs off the faint of heart and it is all hiding good targets from those not willing to dig aluminum of the scale that I am willing to do it. I have no problem just digging aluminum all day. 1970's pull tabs tell me the place has never been seriously hunted for gold rings. The surface layer if nothing else is masking what lies below.

Awesome info. I was actually at a lake the other weekend (my first weekend out, with the 600) and the lake was a bit low so there was a lot of sandy/mini pebble beach area available.  since I was new I of course did by best to learn the machine in a way to ignore pull tabs. I did end up pulling like 10 pull tabs out that looked to be much older and they were everywhere. This as a new detectorist made me think 'ah nothing but trash here'  I still kept hunting and found coins and actually called a nickel out because it stayed on 12 more than the pull tabs did, in fact I think the pull tabs fluctuated from 13-16 and the nickel presented itself mostly on 12, and would sometimes move to 13 so I called it a nickel and it was a nickel. this caused me to ignore 13s-16s more but I didnt realize that seeing all those pull tabs was a good sign that those beaches were not hit as often, or in a very long time. 

Planning a trip to go back very soon because of this new insight I have learned. Thanks for the info!

8 minutes ago, Lacky said:

To be fair it is in the manual,  it just isn't clear enough you didn't  feel like you needed to make sure. So not as clear as it could be. Honestly though, if your new to the hobby lots of stuff in the manual is kinda confusing.  Read lots of the essential Information posts, that will teach you a ton about what stuff does and when the different adjustments help, then just ask if anything doesn't make sense. If we didn't want to chat about detecting we wouldn't be here.

Yeah you are right that its in the manual but I guess for a newb like me it would have been nice to see it written out lol. But thanks to other knowledgeable people I was still able to confirm it!

I will check out the Minelab Equinox Essential Information!

Thank you. 

48 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

No worries, that’s my job, to remember every post made in the last five years  Welcome to the forum!

If you have not done it yet check out the Minelab Equinox Essential Information pinned at the top of this forum. This subject is one of those listed among many.

Well im kinda jealous of all of your Metal detecting wisdom 😅

Thank you. I will check it out.  Been soaking information up for the last 30 or so days.

Happy hunting!

5 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

In retrospect ("hindsight is 20/20"), IMO they should have labeled the recovery speeds on the 600 simply {2,4,6}.  But I suppose then someone would have wondered why there was no {1,3,5}.  FWIW 90% of my hunting has been in the {5,6} region and only recently have I tried 4 (which has produced some good results).  I don't think I've heard/read anyone running with recovery speed = 8 although I know it's been tested and likely some have given it a whirl in the field.  When I run in Field 2 mode (where 7 is the default) I just turn it down to 6.  But just like the gain/sensitivity (where I almost never go above 22), it's nice to know I have the capability of pushing to the extreme.  Minelab kept that option in the recovery speed for the higher priced 800.  One of those marketing decisions...

Yeah I understand now and am okay with being able to match 6. Would have been upset if 600 did in fact only go to 3 in comparison to the 800. 

Now that it’s confirmed the 3 is matched to the 6 I feel like they could express that in the manual. 

Still though. Love the machine!!

6 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

It was covered in detail here some time ago. Bottom line as phrunt said you are just fine.

 

 

Okay, sorry, I tried looking for the answer before asking but didn’t look enough I guess! 

Brand new new to this forum and happy to be here.

6 hours ago, phrunt said:

Hi, Welcome to the forum

Yes you're right, 3 is equal to the 6 on the 800 and 2 is equal to 4 and so on.  They're just done on a different scale and you just have a few less choices with your highest being equal to 6 and the 800 goes up to 8, not really that much difference.  You can just go a little higher and lower on the 800, not something I've ever needed to do with my 800.

Awesome thanks for your time you took to respond.  It’s good to know that 3 matches 6 and that is plenty for the field. 

Recently I have purchased the equinox 600 which I am very happy with. I did lots of research on different machines around the $500 mark and with Reddit’s help I went for the NOX 600. Again happy I did.

When I did some research on the differences between 600 and 800 the only biggest difference was the gold prospecting mode which didn’t seem like a huge desire for me, and some additional features like custom user profile on the 800 as well as different screen brightness adjustments plus a few other things that I didn’t feel like were a big deal compared to the cost. 

One thing I am upset about though that wasn’t really brought up or it was what I would say a subtle difference in reviews, is the recovery rate between both machines. The 600 has 1, 2, and 3 recovery speeds where as the 800 goes from 1-8. It seems like being able to go higher than a 3 recovery rate in my opinion might be worth going with the 800. 

I could be wrong but being able to go to a recovery of 4, 5, or 6 with the 800 takes the cake in trashier areas.  It may be common sense or it may not be much of a big deal but after going through some dense areas with the 600, I find myself wishing I could run through the areas with a higher recovery than a 3. 

What are your thoughts on this, is 3 enough when the next machine just about $200 more can over double the recovery rate? My recent discovery of this is causing me to feel like I want the 800 over the 600 now.

also in the manual I have noticed that when it talks about recovery rate it shows the 800 on a scale of 1-8 and the 600 shows 1-3 however 1 is under 2, 2 is under 4, and 3 is under 6 of the 800 scale. Does that by chance mean a 3 on the 600 is as powerful as the 6 on the 800?