MDCHIEFSH

1) how about a 3 to 6 frequency collapsible V systems that can be used for all use cases.

2) 2nd how about a voltage boosted(40-80V) hybrid system to compete with the minelabs high end detectors of the world

Big shocker...i will miss my friend ...it was a pleasure hunting and designing and testing detectors with you bob...

Tyler

I have been wishing this to change for a couple decades now. But i dont know of any component makers for electronics in america any more. Worked in electronics market for many decades . So i would assume that everyone in any electronics area is "assembling in america" rather than "made in america". 

In the 80's made in america was a big thing but everything left first to mexico with nafta and then next to Singapore, Taiwan and finally china.

There are some military places in alabama i know of for a higher price that have limited suppliers. There are higher end power electronics chips and processors still made as well in the US. But for general consumer components those are all made abroad and shipped into the US for folks to use at pcb houses that source to all US "mfg'rs"--actually "assemblers". The tooling for the plastics in consumer electronics is almost completely made in asia then shipped back for molders to use for all the plastics everyone uses today. 

The "assembly" i have been told by numerous folks is the next to go. Fischer, XP, Garrett and others have either shown folks or done videos of machines/robots doing most of the key tasks in their "manufacturing". The key areas by law in a metal detector to still have a chance to be interpreted as made in america are those pieces that make the system a metal detector. These would include the coil and electronics. The casing and mechanical parts are not key. So when 70% of the components are made outside of the US  for everyone. Then no one can say they are made in america. Instead everyone is actually assembled in america.

The metal detector "mfgr's" are mainly  snap fitting things together and doing limited testing with the workers in the US. At the point of machines/robots taking over the bulk of the job with foreign components being the contents within. It would be hard for me to understand the "made in america" label holds the same water except for maintenance support of the robots and user test.

The original pride in made in america i remember of the 1980's and prior was because we were supporting american jobs. Made by hand with the sweat and effort of american workers. We shall see over the next 4 years if more onshoring happens to reverse some of this trend. But even then i expect more machines/robots to take over and still have it be "assembled in america" given the majority of components will still be made from overseas. As long as the majority of some key components are made overseas then metal detectors will at best be " assembled in america".

hoping for change....

please get them to ship us some

Khouse what type of toilet paper is first texas using now adays?

A useful idea for professional gold/relic metal detectorists from indiegogo

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/goblin-the-world-s-first-metal-detector-drone-smartphone-gift#/

Wish number 2 i listed would work well on something like this...after all this stuff is almost sixty years old..

https://www.google.com/patents/US3105934

And look at these kick starter anti landmine ideas....that could be adapted for professional gold/relic hunting..

I am just waiting for someone to figure out on indigeogo or kickstarter something like wish 2 on these systems with some of the modern GaN devices used for wireless power tech in the airfuel standards. With this technology you can totally shape and control the energy delivered and how that effects the ground and its response. 

Someday folks i think will also figure out how to split up the emitters after that and direct energy similar to what is done in beam stearing devices for 802.11ad through 802.11ay wifi router technologies. Then you will be able to sum energy to a point in the ground without effecting the ground between it that you pass the individual beams through. I would imagine those folks working on those mining asteroids projects will have this running first.

http://www.planetaryresources.com/

i think its much more than a listening and focus group issue. All the companies have experts that know what they are doing and give direct input. 

Its more so a basic money investment, return on the investment. and a competition problem. It takes a lot more money to get the higher end units out that the expert gold detectorists want. Look at minelabs quoting 10 million in research for gpz. Where the money is you have a lot of cloning going on. Build a high price unit and somewhere in china in less than a year a clone is built and dumped into every major WW sales market they can get into. Most of which dont have IP protection easily enforceable so there goes a companies returns. So it becomes a race to the bottom in such efforts. Makes no sense to rush into a race for the bottom and empty ones funds or resources on such an effort. You have to pace yourselves and make sure what you release is competitive and or very tough to clone. Minelabs worked hard on the gpz to make the latter the case. Its one of the only anti counterfeit/cloning metal detector designs on the market. So i expect them to make money for a while.

But more than likely these other companies without such anti counterfeiter efforts only have 1 or 2 years on such new releases to make their money back before the prices drop out on the big stages for gold detection. For minelabs you have Africa  pushing some good sales at first. But how anti counterfeit proof they are and how long before the market is eroded makes gold detector mfg'rs wonder should they compete and build radically new detectors, versus cost cut and do slight improvements on what they already have. Also why not go after  the mid to high end of the coin/relic hunting spaces which doesn't touch these markets and face the level of challenges or investment.

In addition to the cloning race to the bottom challenges there are a lot of good detectors out there already from numerous competitors that know each other well. So the competition can be fierce for what's left over in the protected markets.  

Also the smaller metal detector companies are not like the big companies many folks work at that have the means to afford a fail,  or two, here or there and can invest millions into a project. Especially if less than a year later the chinese cloners have replicated units all over the world and take away 80% of the sales as they did with mindlabs during the big gold rush a few years back prior to gpz.

There is  of course therefore a hearding(geotech's words) that i would argue not just with the engineers but with all parts of said small companies to deliver on these technologies that is very hard to do. There is always in a small company someone telling you they know best and can sway a smaller company with money or influence the majority of their resources that they have. They maybe right for their immediate need and their use case. But for the expert users  that are the early adopters and will buy if there is a reason to buy. They dont need or want units that are functionally basic units that add on top of them waterproof function. This defensive design affords such mfgr's future planned erosion and access to rainy and dry areas in Africa.  But does nothing for the expert user that 20 to 30 years ago had access to that level of technology and has scrubbed clean the ground with said technology. 

For the high end detectorists to  buy a new gold unit they must be buying units that are better, much better, or the Steve's  and similar gold hunters of the world have no reason to buy them. There has to be some advantage over the other systems. Else as Steve notes these users are set with what they have. This will be the case until something new can literally come along with the next big thing. As was the  case of the recent mindlab gpz systems. They find the gold that other detectors couldn't find in areas they thought they scrubbed clean or couldn't detect in.

It's complex and its risky for the small mfgr's in the gold areas of metal detecting without partners and help. Thus if folks want something in the high end of the gold/relic space i think the era of kickstarter and indiegogo is here and actually needed. The small metal detector mfg'r needs to save their monies for anti counterfeit design work. Else you flip this problem around and have everyone partner and fund anti counterfeiting work, or best of all do both.

Looks like they are listed on amazon for prime members at 99.95. 

amazing

On 12/18/2016 at 0:03 PM, jasong said:

Odd strategies abound in the low end market:

National Geographic selling a detector for families too, which some may recognize.  

amazing

Tieing into what daniel TN is saying for the only drawbacks...that is why i made those two wishes(see below).

I could use my Wish 1  V series(multifrequency) unit for most everything but really tough ground where i would want my wish 2 gold/relic unit.  It's all about customer demand and numbers for these small manufacturers in the metal detecting space. I think often we the metal detector customers dont call the owners and let them know what is going on. Other causes call the owners, collect numbers online that show support, and gather money support online which always directs and causes change. Personally like many of you folks i get tired of waiting for the best machines to come out. Especially gold machines which can pay for themselves. I also get these companies are small and don't have infinite resources.

But i think in the new online modern age WE can change that model. Like many folks today we can put up money for a kickstarter or indiegogo effort if white's would agree to such a crowd sourced development effort. Just like all other kickstarter/indiegogo cases those that invest larger amounts equal to the unit price get a free unit and more.

For instance a 1000 investor/customers for each would be worth like...

Wish 1 unit cost~2k-- available funding=2 million dollars

Wish 2 unit cost-4k- available funding=4 million dollars

I dont know if this the amount they need, less, or more to develop these units, it would depend on what White's said. But if minelab took 10 million for development of GPZ  as folks are claiming online.  i think 6 million dollars could get the job done quickly for whites on these two "wish" machines or something similar!  And they would get out the top 2 machines price/function wise on the high end for all metal detectorists.

Steve--maybe this is something you talk to White's on and co-lead with White's the online/partners effort for? 

Reminder of wishes...

Wish 1---ultra-ultra rugged/water proof design(leupold like casing) for the V series. Shouldnt be too hard since leupold makes their stuff in newberg, oregon at 3D plastics not too far from whites electronics HQ. Want it to be chest mountable. Would love it if they could do what depar and xp are doing and add that fourth frequency for gold hunting! Then all of my gmt and mxsport coils could work on that unit. 

Wish 2--same type of cased design as wish 1. But i want a super high power--nautilus level voltage(44Volts) + TDI level current--multi channel pulse gold/relic detector. I want more power to punch deeper into rough ground! I would also like some type of auto ground tuning to check strength, phase and other properties. While asking for my holy grail i want it to optimize the channels/pulses/machine to reduce the effect of the ground and environment around the machine based on profiles i setup on the fly or ahead of time. Also how about some ultra light weight accessory coils to compete with mindlab's new GPZ coils! Miner john, Coiltech or Detech could build these for white's if they think they are too low volume to make themselves.

Looks like whites xventure kids detector is being sold on ebay. Neat idea for christmas for children and grandkids to start to learn to hunt with.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/White-s-XVenture-Kid-s-Metal-Detector-800-0348/142271187819?

Forgot to mention i agree with daniel The 7 inch DD is a better coil than the 6X10 coil DD. It seems to run surprisingly hot for its size.

online link from warthog

7 inch coil from DJDigs

7 hours ago, Jackpine said:

Something similar to the Fisher X series and CZ's.  Solid epoxy and bullet proof.  I have thousands of hours in the water with them on Fisher machines with not one failure.

yah a spider coil with solid neutral bouncy epoxy like the detech DD coils. Sounds a like a needed coil that i would want as well.

57 minutes ago, Daniel Tn said:

The MX Sport has quickly became one of my favorite VLF machines.

The 7 inch DD is my favorite coil on it.  You wont believe this but I also have a CTX 3030 that I had the 6 inch and stock coil for.  In my ground, the MX Sport with 7 inch coil, will out perform the CTX 3030 in depth and ID capability.  I know that sounds like a tall tale but it is true.  This is on real world relic and coin hunting targets; lots of hours testing for my own use and knowledge.  It is one incredible combo with 7 inch coil.  The 10 inch is okay but the 7 inch really makes that machine shine.  I've not tried the 13 Ultimate or the 950 concentric.  Generally, my ground is too bad for the concentric coils to do much good in.  The 6x10 coil, I just sold mine.  I like the 7 inch better; the main complaint about the 6x10 is that it floated in the water.  I also feel the 7 inch was deeper than it too.  The only place I have found thus far that the CTX will beat the MX Sport is on the salt water beaches.  The MX Sport can do OK in the wet sand but not as good as the CTX and the MX Sport will want to overload in the fast moving water too unless you back the gain way down.  On the dry sand, the two are about equal in depth but I do feel the CTX gives the edge there in ID capability on trash items.  My bad ground changes all that though. In it, the CTX tends to call things iron that aren't iron...coins past 6 inches will start to read in the bottom right corner of the screen. On the MX Sport, they ID much better.  

Its amazing that a unit much lower in cost can perform equal or nearly equal to a unit far more costly. That is white's history. Maybe not always the first out. But they get you 90% of minelabs tools in most cases, and better than minelabs tools in other cases, at a fraction of the cost. What would be interesting as i noted in my wishes is to update the V for professionals into a rugged waterproof case. I think this would take out as the 3030 as the prime unit in the market. Not to mention that unit is heavy compared to a unit you could chest mount. 

14 minutes ago, Jackpine said:

I'd buy the MXS, but the only thing holding me back is the 9.5" concentric coils design.  That thing looks like it would be a huge drag swinging in the water.  Should have been an open spoke design. 

Sorry White's you ain't got me on board until you come up with a properly designed concentric for fresh water use.

Tom

probably need to make one similar to their treasure series concentric coil for water useage

On 9/27/2016 at 6:06 PM, Ridge Runner said:

Great price great looking coils but that small DD coil just don't tickle my fancy. I'd take a mono or a concentric in the 7 inch size. I'm just not a great lover of DD coils for coin hunting. I do know they have a place in detecting but that's not what I want now.

Chuck

It really depends on where you hunt and how you hunt. White's makes some good stuff if you know how to trick it out. It's definitely the best detector(s) for the money.

The Treasurepro with the detech 7 inch coil is a perfect trash hunting machine. Love this machine for basic coin hunting in trashy areas. Great machine for the price!

Mxsport for me has so much power compared to other machines in its class that the 7 inch DD is best fit for trashy hunting areas, very fast response, can be very close to larger metal items unlike concentric's(6 inch included), and honestly for me it goes plenty deep enough with 7inch DD detech coil. For faster coverage i can move up to concentric 950's on weaker mineralized ground on eastern seaboard. Then the default DD coil for mineralized ground like western USA. Finally the 13 inch for beach and large field coverage. I have them all and use them as i see fit for the circumstance that matches.

The V series is best if i was back east in the relic areas. Always loved all the ground strength tools for figuring out my environment i hunt. Can't say enough to how powerful this is to understand the proper methods to hunt back east. But i would go with a 13 inch detech coil on it. Else some specialty coils i would like try like bigfoot(steve turned me onto this coil) or some of the new ones from detech.

I also really like the tdipro modded units out there with miner john's coils. I tried those side by side with sdc2300 and thought geesh got most of everything i needed for a WHOLE LOT LESS MONEY than mindlab's. And its easy to mod the frame to be chest mountable, which i prefer, to carrying those minelab beasts around on my arm.

Personally i have two wishes for the future from whites....

Wish 1---ultra-ultra rugged/water proof design(leupold like casing) for the V series. Shouldnt be too hard since leupold makes their stuff in newberg, oregon at 3D plastics not too far from whites electronics HQ. Want it to be chest mountable. Would love it if they could do what depar and xp are doing and add that fourth frequency for gold hunting! Then all of my gmt and mxsport coils could work on that unit. 

Wish 2--same type of cased design as wish 1. But i want a super high power--nautilus level voltage(44Volts) + TDI level current--multi channel pulse gold/relic detector. I want more power to punch deeper into rough ground! I would also like some type of auto ground tuning to check strength, phase and other properties. While asking for my holy grail i want it to optimize the channels/pulses/machine to reduce the effect of the ground and environment around the machine based on profiles i setup on the fly or ahead of time. Also how about some ultra light weight accessory coils to compete with mindlab's new GPZ coils! Miner john, Coiltech or Detech could build these for white's if they think they are too low volume to make themselves.

On 9/27/2016 at 6:06 PM, Ridge Runner said:

Great price great looking coils but that small DD coil just don't tickle my fancy. I'd take a mono or a concentric in the 7 inch size. I'm just not a great lover of DD coils for coin hunting. I do know they have a place in detecting but that's not what I want now.

Chuck

its actually the best coil for general use on the mxsport in my opinion

should be interesting to watch and see if they are seeking 7 years of back damages...could really hurt xp if that were the case. And going forward if they get a high license rate...would really hurt them again...helps to have millions to write patents all day long

also liked this one

nicely done carolina coin hunter...

maybe its just best for folks to suggest key features then i guess from v3i or other top units to roll down into the lower units...seems like the beginner/pro sw switching isnt an easy path

9 hours ago, Bill_S said:

The V3i is about the closest detector I can think of that will let you change just about everything but not like your are suggesting. I think that would be pretty cool.  Got to have that master reset option though.....;o)

yes i was thinking about the v3i...but its big challenge for a lot of folks is that it has only one software option so it tough for beginners to use.

In most industries electronics folks get access to developers kits to build in their own tools and special features. By the time a product goes to market all of this control is stripped out to simplify the unit for general users, who are not usually experienced enough to use it.

I was thinking why dont metal detector companies release two versions of code? One for beginners and another set for expert users. It would be easy i would think to pay a fee, get a key to plug in, else reprogram the units for a fee and get all the control i would ever need to work around any issue, gnd, etc out there.

I am curious if other folks would like this and would pay for it?

So has anyone tested out the 6X10 search coil on the mxsport?

A lot of folks should just call the factory and hassle them.

I saw the facebook photos on feb 16th for the 950 and 6X10 search coils. So they have the search coils.

Squeeky wheel is always the thing that moves things along