Tahoegold

I agree with ya on the wish list. 3 tones would be nice. I'd like to make hot rocks the low tones at about 3, iron the mid at around 20 and high tones for the rest. 

   I have the worst conditions that you mentioned. Mineralization at about 82, aluminium wrappers and tiny bits all over. The GR really likes aluminium. But, it sounds of on gold the most. I am amazed how it can really pick it up. If it's electrum, it doesn't pick it up as well. But, the real gold, yes, it does. 

   You have a couple of detectors that you are comparing. Those are nice machines. Thanks for the comparisons. The fact that I can set up the recovery speed, is really nice. It really helps smooth out the ground noise. I don't notice that function changing the sensitivity to tiny bits, so I have it at 8 a lot of times in this soil here. Otherwise, I have a wierd kind of delayed echo on all metal. I get a signal, then a brief silence, then a fading signal. The bigger the target the more pronounced the echo. I have used this to find tiny targets. Mayby this is normal on all metal machines. I haven't owned anything else except a compadre. 

That's a nice find. You use a good way to go through steps with the GR. I see, all metal has it's place in open non trashy areas. If you're trying to find a place where an old site exists. I found one recently by accident. Just taking a chance and walking through the woods. I didn't use all metal. That would have been the way to go though. Then start bringing more disc and tone break to cherry pick. Etc..

  I'm learn about how to do these processes, there is a method. Thanks, good stuff!

   However, I'm really surprised at how little disc it takes to knock out micro jewelry. Since I started using the tone break as an audible kind of discrimination, I find tonebreak to be more effective at actually reporting micro jewelry through the trash. The Gold Racer has a hi freq. so it gets to hear the tiny bits. And, with tone break, it gives a way to actually use that hi frequency to ferrit out the good signals. 

    I understand now that all metal has it's place in finding anything at first. Or, in the case of gold prospecting, I want to have the whole power of it's capability at use if possible. 

    Good to know about how l can work with just a tiny bit of id filter like 1 or 2 and that even makes a difference. Then rely on tone break to identify good targets. This has been very informative. Love my GR, nice learn it's tools and tricks!

49 minutes ago, kac said:

All Metal has an advantage where you can hear the variations in the ground yet clearly hear a target and be able to better judge it's size/depth. The VDI on the Gold Racer is really good and will id a 10" clad dime with stock dd in low/moderate ground.

The only time I will switch to a disc mode is when there are just too many targets to follow and my brain can't keep up. Overall in moderate/low trash areas the Gold Racer is a fun small jewelry and coin shooter on top of being a prospecting machine but you can easily get overwhelmed in high trash areas. The discriminator is limited as you can only disc out from a set point and below and audio is limited to 2 tones (flat iron signal and vco) based on audio break. I sometimes set my audio break to or below the disc level and run it as a single vco signal machine if I start getting into trash.

Last bit, being a gold machine you have a wider range of iron 0-40 with iron nails breaking at the 19-low 20's range. This leaves a wide mid range for gold and aluminum 40-70 and only leaving a small range for the rest.

Hunting in high aluminum trash areas can be the big downside to this gold machine and probably true for other machines in it's class is that you really have to pay attention to the signals that aluminum give and their jumpy numbers to identify them vs gold. Can slaw and foil will be the trickiest to identify as they have the most variation.

OK, This is the best explanation in my mind, of the difference in the AM vs Disc. The ground variation is the big difference. Which helps decide the size and depth. OK, AM is best in areas with low trash. I'll buy that. I used AM a few times and recovered tiny bits of lead in sand, so I know I can use it. 

    I know what you mean about Aluminum. It hits well on that. I didn't know about the numbers and the spread for Iron and gold areas. That seems like a good thing to me. Coins are all up in the high numbers. Now I have a much better grasp of this detector. Great info, Thanks!

1 hour ago, Mike_Hillis said:

If you follow the progression, the Gold Racer and Gold Kruzer are actually the AU Gold Finder circuit stuffed in different packages with little tweaks to make them different.  The Gold Racer is the AU Gold Finder stuffed in a Gold Racer Package.  Makro wanted one too, so they took the AU Gold Finder and stuffed it in the Kruzer package.

But they are all basically the same detector so you can expect the same performance from all three.  

Want knobs.....AU Gold Finder.

Want a display and like the Racer package....Gold Racer.

Want want a display and like the Kruzer package....Gold Kruzer.

I just wish the Gold Kruzer had the same aftermarket coil selection availability that the Gold Racer enjoys.

HH
Mike

 

 

Thanks for the history on this! Now I'm really glad I have the racer.

    I was tempted to try a Mars coil. But, the sales rep that sees returns on coils said the manufacturers coils were usually designed with better specs. However, now I'm thinking, if I ever need a replacement, there's some interesting options in sizes. Mars coils may be more rugged. I'm not sure. But, that woud be my reasoning to try another brand. At least I have options! 

6 hours ago, Skullgolddiver said:

From my point of view, I surely payed the excess of discrimination in the past.

I hunted for years with a "supertuned" Ctx for a gold exclusive search, bored and tired many times, to discover finally that a well tuned all metal with a gentle treshold can do the job better in most of the sposts.

Useless treshold on a machine like that, but extremely efficient on an Excalibur.

My 2 cents are: forget about trash elimination by your machine and learn as much as You can to recognize environment's conditions.

Go for the weight index, instead of type.Move towards the targets are more prone to be coin or sinker like weighted..Be Happy to dig trash cause this only means to better know the area and how far you're from Gold.

The beach Is for me the most similar place to the hell.

There's other few places on the earth where to begin crazy without a real cause.

 

 

This EXACTLY!! I like to cherry pick at first, grab what I can of the easy stuff and then set up for the tiny stuff when I find a spot where it seems people had been.

   This is where I was trying to find jewelry. I then cherry pick with disc 2 in 10, tone break at 30. I know now I was not tuned because of my test chain results. Now I'll set to 0 on Disc 2 and 0 on tone break. Single tone all metal and go for the tiny stuff. I seem to be hearing the high tone better. My mind is set to be alerted to that tone. 

   The GR takes a lot of confusion out of the beach crazy using it's tool set. Going through the process to all metal, helps me mentally to enjoy. Then, the process in all metal is a hunt to find the tiny stuff, so, tiny sounds are the target. Which, in itself, is a type of discrimination. So, I feel like it's a process of elimination the GR does with precision. It's too bad I wasn't set up correctly until now. But, I'm really looking forward to using it now!

   In All metal, the issue for me is the echo it gives on targets. It gives a signal, the signal recedes, and then theres a prolonged hum which settles down to threshold level. I have a hard time with that. I have been able to find tiny stuff doing that. I did give it my all, working in all metal. However, the Disc response doesnt have the echo. It gives a report, then, silence. That works so much better. Even when I change the iSAT in all metal to mimic the same retune speed, I cant get the all metal to work as clearly as Disc 2 in all metal. The signal in AM sounds so vague comparatively. Am I missing out by not using AM? Or, am I really doing better in Disc 2 set to 0 on ID filter AND tone break? Or, do I need to experiment to find out. Am I the first to look into this?

So, I wanted to ask this again. Will the Disc 2 be just as deep and sensitive as all metal when the ID mask is set to 0? I was not sure. Is the all metal circuitry different? Is there still something reducing sensitivity in Disc 2 even at 0? Because, I sure can hear responses better in Disc mode. I tend to get frustrated with the muted sound of all metal.

   If I don't get a response, I may do a test myself. Which I should do anyway. Maybe NotMac is reading this and can reply. 

    Why would the disc channels have such great signal sound compared to all metal? So crisp and distinct! I don't know much about the circuitry to understand.

   I mean, the Gold Racer is built off of the Racer technology. This is some kind of hybred detector. It has the all metal circutry, with a whole new way of adding features to a Gold/micro jewelery Detector. Nothing has been made like this before.  

   I have successfully used the tone break and ID filter set to 0 to find a tiny bit of brass in a pile of trash in a roadside pull out. I was just experimenting with using only tone break as a discriminator. I could hear one high tone. One tiny high tone. And I recovered it too. Do that on all metal.

   Maybe I just set up my next experiment. I have a tiny bit of gold glued to a zip tie. I'm going to set it somewhere on the river and do this same thing to see if I can figure out the settings... 

To be continued...

I see, that could be an option if I have an issue with a coil like I did once. I got another. That big coil is nice but, it would be nice to have a slightly smaller one. That's for another day when I have money to burn! Or, need a replacement. 

   I think the GR is excellent. However, it probably is niche. It works great for me!

Ok, I see, flat iron. I was talking to a dealer about the different coils. He had the opinion that the manufacturers coils seem to work best on most detectors. I haven't had any experience with after market coils. I think the big coil is all I can handle. It gets a bit tiring after a while swinging it on the beach. It is deeper by an inch or 2. I like that it really covers ground. Mostly, I'm really glad it hits the tiny chain at an inch. I feel that I still have a good chance at micro stuff even with this big of a coil. Amazing to me.

13 hours ago, kac said:

I bought my Gold Racer not too long ago and ended up using it for coin/relic hunting in the woods. You can play with the ID filter which trims out targets below from sounding off and tone break to control the iron audio so it can essentially be a 1 or 2 tone machine. Running the Tone break at the same as the ID filter makes it a single tone vco machine. I use disc 2 for that and keep disc 1 as stock for referencing back. Can make cherry picking copper and silver from parks fairly easy.

Recently snagged the concentric coil which puts bottle caps into the 50's and flat iron in general low on the scale. Handy around places that have a lot of bottle caps but unfortunately being just in the 50's you can risk losing small jewelry.

Small thin chains are tough on any machine so skimming the ground is almost a must.

You may want to keep tracking off when using disc modes and ground balance manually more often. I noticed that if you keep the machine just at the brink of being noisy you can hear if ground balance starts to go off. If it chatters it's getting hot and if it gets quiet it's running too cold. Just do a ground grab every once in a while and you should be good to go.

Thanks again KAC!!

    This is the thread I've been needing! GREAT info. I have the concentric. I never thought the coil type would change the ID. I have the large coil as well for the beach. I noticed on that coil the quarters show up 5 points higher into the 90s. I didnt think about the concentric. 

   So, since the big coil moves the coing numbers higher, I think I need to check all my coils and get familiar with the difference between each.

   I read about the tracking. I keep it off in disc. But, changing the tone break to make it single tone is a nice tip. I kept having to check my numbers when I heard a low tone.     

   Sometimes all I'm looking for is silver or quarters. So I set it to disc out zinc pennys. It works perfectly on that for coins. Except for the nickles. Single tone would be nice then!

I also have the tiny sniper coil. Now that coil really hits this tiny chain. But, it would be frustrating on the beach. The big coil does hit this chain an inch away, amazingly. So, scrubbing is a must. 

    Yes, thanks again. This detector is good for micro hunting AND coins! 

  Now I'm thinking about your tip on making a single tone VCO. I prefer the sound in disc over the AM. Would Disc be the same as AM when set to 0? I could put tone break to zero as well and have the perfect solution. I suppose if hot rocks were an issue in a particular spot, some here are about a 3 on the ID I could use tone break for them. At least I would hear them and decide if I want to dig. Using any disc seems to affect small gold so, this would really help my hearing of the signal in hot rocks or just in general! What do you think?

   This has been very informative. Sensitivity for the right depth of target, id filter off or 1 to 2 for chatter. Find the iron break point. That one about the gold showing 30s-40s but not sounding in the high tone until the tone break is down in the 20s was surprising. All good stuff. I just wonder how much stuff I missed. It's ok, this is changing things for me. 

   My chain would sound off all balled up, but when I dangled it, I had to go down to 3 before it sounded. 0 was clear and crisp. I hunted in 0 today and that was really great. I feel like I finally have the detector I wanted. Now these tips are really helping. Thanks!!

Ok, I just did a test hunt, I was finding tiny bits and parts. I found a few coins too. However, now I seem to be kinda excited to find tiny tiny bits. I didn't care if they weren't jewelry. The ID isn't accurate in this hunt mode. But, I sure can tell that, indeed, it's a target, and it's tiny. Like, a staple, a tiny screw. 

   So, now, I think, I'm not going to disc out anything when hunting like this. 

   Here's my question. To you that have found small earings, tiny rings and chains etc. Do you just dig it all? I'm thinking that's the only way to even know for sure. I finding myself ok with that if that is how this works. 

3 hours ago, Mike_Hillis said:

Hi TahoeGold.

Good post.

Couple of things:

In Discrimination mode, the size of the gold you can detect is directly related to how far down into the iron range you are willing to go.

What part of the chain are you actually detecting, a link?   the clasp?,  the loop the clasp connects to?   When chain hunting you are really hunting one of those parts and you have to setup for that part.

Wrap your head around this:  I found a nice looking 10K bracelet that has a VDI of 43/44 on my Gold Kruzer.  But the Kruzer will not respond to it in Disc mode unless I have the disc set down into the twenties.  All my detectors act the same way on this bracelet.  I have to be really down far into the iron range to hit it, even though it gives a non-ferrous ID number.  I attribute this to the solder used for the links and the really sharp angles where they fold over.  But it further illustrates my point.  Smaller gold requires a really low iron setting and some sites don't really support it.

The key about tiny/small jewelry is that the target is tiny/small so the response from your detector should also be tiny/small.   If you hunt in All Metal for tiny/small jewelry you have to set up so you can key into the tiny/small sounding targets.  The hard part is how much sensitivity is required to hear the tiny stuff in the first place can nix the ability to hear the small stuff in the blast of all the larger targets that respond.   I recommend learning to use the minimum about of sensitivity that will give you a intelligent response at the depth you are most likely to find the item.

That is what I like most about gold prospecting when it comes to jewelry hunting.  It really teaches you how to setup your detector to best hear the target.

HH

Mike

 

Thanks Mike,This is good too!

   I can detect the chain itself. Holding the clasp and dangling the chain. It reads 3!! So yeah, it's in the iron/hot rock range!!

    However, it sure doesnt sound like a hot rock. It gives a distinct but short signal. I do know at that point it's a tiny but valid target.

    I'm ok with the sensitivity and trash, in some areas, there's some trash but not piled together. I just needed to be able to hear it and now I do. I had no way of knowing until I found this chain. It's really tiny. It looks like a necklace for a small person, but it has really tiny links and is thin. I think I weighed it to be just short of a half gram. Really really thin. So, now, I am aware of the proper settings and feel a lot more confident I can detect this kind of jewelry now. Thank you!

Side note, I find it important to be able to hear as much about a target as I can. These settings give me a full tone range on tiny targets. I can actually hear the chain bouncing as I dangle it in front of the coil. It sounds crisp when I pass over it on the ground, not scrachy. My ears tell me, "Hey, thats a tiny target..." That kind of info is what I value most when hunting micro jewelery. I have that now. Thanks!

1 hour ago, kac said:

With all metal mode you need to keep it stable especially on the tiny stuff and the GR will lock on to the target but if your threshold is cutting out you may miss passing over the target again.

If you like the disc modes try Disc 2 and set the gain down until the machine is not chattery.

Set your ID filter to 0 and nudge it up to 1-2 if you get a constantant chatter from the ground if needed. I prefer 0.

Keep imask on 0

Next set your tone break to 19 (this is well below the iron range but where an iron square nail will break at).

I can pick up .06g 10k earling loop at about an inch with those settings.

Thanks KAC!

This is what I needed! I kinda found out some of this. But these settings confirm and add to my understanding. 

   0 seemed to be great in Disc 2. But I didn't think about using 1 or 2 for ground chatter. ( We're talking disc not imask) I could use 1 and 2 and still get a signal. 3 was barely making a signal. I can see how that method would quiet it down. That's a nice tip.

   I had set my tone break at 35 because it would make most iron go to the low tone. I like the idea of making the nail tone break up. I'll try that. 

   I really started to like the sounds rather than the ID. Since I have a compadre, I'm used to hearing targets anyway. I was having a hard time setting it up to work best. I already like what it sounds like, and, the sensitivity now. This is why I got this detector. I knew I was not quite dialed. I couldent even hear this chain at first because of how I had it set up. 

    Now this chain and my other tiny gold bits ring out solidly. Thanks!

So, I really like the Makro Gold Racer. I keep finding more things about it. Recently, I found a really tiny 14k gold chain visually, just lying on the ground.  I had my compadre and it couldnt pick it up. I took the chain home and tried it on my GR. I had the factory settings, 10 on disc, using Disc 2 the deeper one, and tone break at 30. Nothing, I couldn't get it to detect it.

So, while I was waving this chain in front of the 10" DD coil I started lowering the disc, I realized the ID number was about 3. So, I experimented with going one number at a time all the way to 0. At 1 I could get a somewhat clear signal. At zero it was a nice signal. Even the big coil coild pick it up at about an inch.

I have been trying to find micro jewelery with no luck. Maybe this is why. I have not used the disc mode in all metal. You see, I really like the clear signal the disc modes give. I have a hard time "reading" the all metal mode. I can really hear the signals in the disc modes. Why is the all metal mode so hard to understand? So very faint target sounds compared to the really obvious ones in disc.

So, am I searching in all metal when disc is at 0? It sure seems as deep and sensitive as all metal. I get much more audible info than all metal in my opinion. However, I have to state here, I'm not an expert. I know the all metal has a way of indicating a target with thresh hold sounds too, or, the silence of the thresh hold sometimes on tiny targets. But, it's not as easy as this method. I really could hear this tiny chain this way.

Can I hunt just as effectively like this or should I keep trying to learn the all metal mode? What's your opinions? And, please, lets keep this discussion to the Gold racer and those who have one. 

I'm actually really glad to have discovered this. I'm fortunate to have this chain to test.

So, the coil was overloading, then, falsing, then completely stopped transmitting. No sound, unable to ground balance, ground balance numbers frozen. I lift the coil to eye level, then gently move the coil front to back maybe 1/2" and it transmits on then off. I velcroed it in place in the working direction and it stayed working. I hope that I can keep it running for a while. Seems a wire may have already separated... I'm missing that small coil, it was a trash sniper. 

    I figure this is part of the learning curve. Sometimes it costs to get experience.

  I just had my 10" DD do the overload and falsing. Also, it cut out all together. I heard that the wire where it meets the coil can be an issue. I wiggled it there and yep, that's where it was. I wrapped the wire around the other direction around the shaft and it worked. I was able to use it. 

   Now, does this mean I should be looking towards this coil dying now too.?

Ok, great info. Heck, this thread is turning into a "How to care for your Notka/Makro coils". Kinda cool...

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

I tend to agree with the cold seems to make them a bit more brittle, I broke a Gold Monster Coil in the cold in a situation it would never have broken in normal air temperatures.

 

So, is everyone saying this kind of crack in a Makro coil is normal for cold weather? (Monster/Gold Racer)

   I am trying to avoid responses about any other coils please.

Darn! Sorry! I'm really glad to hear of these in order to be aware. 

13 minutes ago, kac said:

Mine broke because I snagged it on a log in the woods and it was in the low 20's F out so I am sure the cold makes them bit more brittle. Tapping into things and scraping shouldn't hurt them.

Are you using a Gold Racer?

4 minutes ago, fredmason said:

You won’t be doing much serious detecting except on smooth grass...like Steve, I use my coils. They get banged and shook and occasionally walked on...never broke any since 1980...

they are not weed wackers....

fred

Ok Fred! That's good info. I guess Paul and I just are having some bad luck with 3 of the same manufacturers coils. I'm sure These are made well. There's not any reports of these coils causing an overload signal except for Paul and me. I'm just saying it appears to be very rare. Even the Makro tech hadn't heard of this issue. If anyone has one, try pressing down on it a little. Let me know if it overloads. 

Ok Paul, I have been moving dirt slightly to make a smooth surface, I haven't been using mine as a walking cane. My 4.5x7.5 is epoxy filled. So I really was surprised when it reacted to pressing down, now the 10". But, it's quite possible I am just having a bit of bad luck. I was thinking, if they put a cross section of pvc pipe right under the pole connection it really could strengthen it!

  The symptoms definitely came when I pressed on both coils. I'm not going to press or bang another coil again! 

1 minute ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I don’t. They are made to be used, not babied. I’ve used hundreds of coils over the last 45 years and had few problems. Seriously, you are just having a little bad luck.

Ok, that's good news. I'm concerned as I have another coil, my 10"DD  that is showing the same signs. Same issue by pushing down very gently. If they are not supposed to do this this easy, maybe I am having bad luck. It's not falsing, it's overloading. Wierd symptoms, Paul's did the same thing... So, that's 3 coils. I will trust you Steve. I know this can happen. The Makro repair guy said he doesn't see many problems at all either with their line. He says the coils are well made and seemed to think all coils have a few issues equally. And, he said the manufacturers coils seem to work better. I'm hoping my 10" DD doesnt get worse. It made that overload sound once already... 

Like I said though. I'm not giving up on Makro, and I'll stick with their coils. I'm happy with their performance. Thanks again. I don't mean for this to sound like I'm not trusting Makro. I just don't have much experience with all this. I appreciate the input!

Well,, all this info is good. I have a far better understanding of the situation now. I saw a major retailer carrying the sister company coil from the Urkrane and they offer a 3yr warranty. Which I know they would honer. 

   That being said, I'm positive my GR 19 coil that is epoxy filled didn't have any cracks. I do know that it happened when I was pushing down on it to sweep a flat spot. Yes, this particular coil only uses a skid plate. The bottom is the epoxy. So, I guess coils are to be handled with care. That is good info for me. The fact that this happens makes me understand it's a must that I'm careful. It's all ok for me.

    I will be getting a GR19 replacememt. I'm sure it's the best match. The little sniper coil really works well on tiny stuff. And in trash. Thanks for the info to you all!

I think that's what happened, I could notice a slight movement when I did it. I suppose any coil will break if pushed on. I'm not a long time detectorist, I sure dont want to keep breaking coils!