LowTide

2 minutes ago, danielbecerra said:

If anyone knows something that says number of months? before you go for a walk

Many years ago Fisher supposedly had a detector project with the name Mosca under development.  People kept waiting for it to appear but it never did.  Fisher may have run into a problem with this current project, and it may or may not enter production.  Testing prototypes plus talking about their features and performance is NOT a guarantee that the product will ever be produced.  Throughout the world there are electronic prototypes sitting on dusty shelves that never made it to market.  You may be waiting for a product that will never be sold.

1 hour ago, Goldpick said:

That's a pretty incredible list of features that is going to be hard to match, and may cause some real grief for those companies that have sat on their hands for way too long.

Well if it turns out to be a loss leader then things are going to be interesting about a year from now, and not just for other companies but for NokMak themselves.

So.....will the Vanquish series have the equivalent of the Nox FE1 or the new FE2?  Or possibly a hybrid?  I suspect that there's better than a 50/50 chance that this new FE improvement was realized during the Vanquish development, and ported to the Nox code with increased adjustment range.  A low priced detector with good bottle cap rejection would be a boon for sales.

On 9/22/2019 at 11:57 PM, Goldpick said:

There is some closer shots of the control box in the link below (scroll down a few posts).

Text below bottom pix says two frequencies but not simultaneous.  I don't know if that is accurate as they seemed to have made a real point of splashing the coil around in saltwater in their video. 

A little more info on the 6000.  But no transmission info yet vis-a-vis frequency(ies).

• Super fast switch on and go. No tuning etc
• Main settings visible on screen at all times without delving into a menu.
• Detect and adjust at the same time.
• Manual and Auto Ground balance plus Auto Ground Track.
• Built in LiPo rechargeable battery – Up to 3 days use on a single charge.
• Bluetooth APTX L built in. Low latency, no delay. Comes with wireless headphones but any APTX L Bluetooth headphones can be used.
• USB C port for charging and software updates.
• Pinpoint – Single button press no need to hold.
• Currently the control box is weatherproof but C.Scope hope to make it fully waterproof before launch.
• 2 Years Parts & Labour Warranty.
• Estimated launch first quarter 2020.

The Vanquish is simply an update to the X-terra lineup.  They've added Multi-Freq since they planted that flag and are going to defend it.  They also added some water resistance and wireless.  So they are not the Nox 400, 300, 200 as maybe some had hoped.  Likewise the Simplex is not the Anfibio Lite.  I do find the screen Iconography of the Simplex interesting, kind of Nox-ish.😊

The Nox 600 is still the mid-priced Bully that other manufacturers are going to have to take on at some point.

Both companies are following the old marketing maxim of "Good, Better, Best".  They are wedging into the lower tier market with Minelab using Multi-Freq, and Nok using an enhanced feature set to poke the competition.  As most online forum participants are more serious hobbyists I doubt that they will find these releases as interesting as the models in the flagship tier.

Their price points might make them interesting as loaners, but with the prices in the used market what they are, more economical choices can be found.  Unless of course you are a Kiwi and purchase a unit as a Phantom detector for the wife.  😉  Those Kiwi's can be quite clever!

It looks like C-Scope has something new on the Horizon.    What I found interesting was that twice in the linked video they make a point of showing the coil in saltwater, the second shot shows it being moved quite vigorously apparently to emphasize resistance to fals-ing.  Could this be a Multi-Freq or PI?

While we are on the subject of Dilek...........firstly I have never purchased a product from Nok/Mak and therefore I am agnostic about what they offer.  But I have read many forums and posts about the company and to/from Dilek herself.  She has always comported herself very well in her public dealings with customers and I would believe that it likely carries over to private communications.

I do have one concern for Dilek in her position at Nok/Mak and that is burnout.  I was in a similar position in Consumer Electronics for several decades before retirement.  Being on the road for multiple days per month in a high stress trade show environment takes it’s toll.  Trying to juggle family life especially as a young mother simply magnifies that stress.  I would hope that once a month she takes 15 minutes to clear her mind and re-assess her priorities as we all get to make life’s journey one time.

Welp.....if they make it "too good" they'll undercut the sales of their higher tier(margin) products.  So it's time to thread the needle and be competitive against similarly priced products without cutting their own throats.  Meanwhile back at the ranch they need to keep looking over their shoulders at what Minelab is going to release from the chute.  This Fall looks to be interesting!

I thought Gerry had a Batphone on his desk with a line straight to Ozland.?

5 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

 There can be great benefit in learning where the "traveling hole" is and how it affects certain targets, because in most ground the TDI is very forgiving of a ground balance offset. In other words, for certain targets you want to purposefully move the ground balance setting away from the target response to get the best depth.

 

This is a matter that I have been considering since the announcement of the Manta.  With the various Eric Foster variants there has not been a free lunch with this issue  So is there still a traveling hole or other gotcha with the Manta.  Is it simply a warmed over Foster design which accomplishes an improvement to certain targets but has unknown weaknesses?  The amount of time that is being spent to bring it to market points to some technical issues that are turning out to be difficult to resolve.

Likewise as you stated Saltwater is essentially liquid metal like mercury but not quite as conductive.?  So you can GB it out which is essentially just a discrim filter for the ground.  But get down into the 5us-7us territory and conductivity response of small conductors gets lost in the salt fog.

And the price point(s)?

Perhaps this is the fabled "Mosca"?  Alas the "Minelab Mosca" with dual simultaneous frequencies, lightweight, and waterproof.?

10 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

It appears the system tracks very fast when out of whack, but the closer you get to wherever the machine wants to settle it gets slower and slower to track.

This is very much the way the X-terra ground tracking worked.  Adjust to one setting extreme and add in a stopwatch, then you can characterize the algorithm on different soil types.  It slows down when approaching optimum to make sure that you don't track out targets as you are moving over homogeneous ground.  The one place any type of tracking system will have trouble with is Hot Gravel Beds since there are hundreds of variable pieces of ground under coil.  Best to go into manual GB and do a power ground balance along with an adjustment of sensitivity to achieve stable response.

They had a chance to sell out over a decade ago when the company was in a midst of an internal crisis but let that opportunity sail on by.  Now like Tesoro would anyone even be interested?

Since this product(Manta) was first announced I have been waiting to see any U.S. "Patents Applied for" to show up either in Mr. Tartar's name or First Texas and have found none.  C. Moreland has recently filed a Multi-Freq patent which looks interesting.  But if there is nothing novel about this PI to be protected, holding a +2K USD price point may be an interesting challenge.

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I copped a lot of heat when I made this post and Minelab picked it up as a Treasure Talk blog. The “shilling for Minelab” rhetoric got bad enough I abandoned the other forums. I really don’t need the abuse.

Well it is a wonderment isn’t it from around the time the Nox was released and forward in time.

A  whole series of Kruzers are released and no one is thrashed as a shill.

The Anfibio is released and no one is thrashed as a shill.

White’s MX7 is released and no one is thrashed as a shill.

White’s Goldmaster 24K is released and no one is thrashed as a shill.

White’s TDI BeachHunter is released and no one is thrashed as a shill.

Tarsacci MDT 8000 is released and no one is thrashed as a shill.

And now a French detector the Manta with a Fisher sticker on it is being released and no one is thrashed as a shill despite the fact that this thing has been shill-ed to death!

Purchasing decisions are based on what works in the ground or doesn't work.  Not on how it works!  If Dong Fong based in Shenzhen China makes a detector that is 25% deeper no one is going to ask(except fanboys of certain brands), how it works or complain about advertising....they will just buy it and be happy it is 25% deeper.

One factor, the significance of which is open to interpretation, is the filing of patents.  Minelab has consistently churned out patents from basically day one.  If a competitor has a long development cycle they may find a patent has been granted to another company before their project has matured enough to seek their own patent.

Minelab has demonstrated more than once that they will defend their patents and have the deep pockets to wage those battles.  There were rumors long ago that I have not been able to confirm, that Minelab licensed a form of multi-frequency to White's.  

This coming new year provides an interesting contrast between two companies who’s fortune rests on technology.  One company quite established that has either by choice or constraint had a rather stagnant new technology history.  The other a new startup that feels that it has a new technology. And is entering the marketplace at a price point that would be considered by most as a Flagship statement model.  

While the Minelab Equinox has pressured the lowering of prices for some competitors, Tarsacci has demonstrated the confidence to offer a product at close to double the price of the Equinox’s.  If Tarsacci were a new company with limited experience in metal detector design and manufacturing, then success might be more tenuous.  However the principal engineer has a strong background for the task at hand.

On the other hand if Tesoro had the engineering horsepower then I would place my bets on them, as standing up a new company is usually riskier than re-invigorating a known entity.  I’m really sad to say that Tesoro evokes a woulda, coulda, shoulda of Technology from me.

Tarsacci MDT 8000 Data & Reviews

phrunt

Here’s the reality of why First Texas is in El Paso without all of the flowery rhetoric.  “Cheap Labor” and a Free Trade Zone.  After the North American Free Trade Agreement was signed manufacturing in the industrial center of the U.S. was hollowed out, and good paying manufacturing jobs were shipped across the border to Mexico.  That is why the states in the center of the U.S. are referred to as the “Rust Belt”.  Because the factories were abandoned and left to rot, along with the people who used to work in them.

I was the Engineering Manager of a Consumer Electronics Manufacturing Company about ten years after this occurred and did my best to specify as many U.S. based parts as possible.  At the time our company was the largest consumer of a particular part line from a U.S. based manufacturer.  The failure rate on that product line was in the 0.5-1% range depending on the Lot.  Suddenly we were getting a 90%+ failure rate!

We immediately called in the company’s Manufacturers Rep, VP of Sales, and VP of QC for an emergency meeting.  We discovered that the company had closed their factory in the state of Indiana and shipped the machinery to Mexico.  But the V.P. of QC assured us that they were doing 100% QC.  I took him into our raw parts area and showed him what Mexican 100% QC looked like.  When they left I made sure that they were not happy campers because I was furious!

We were between a rock and a hard place because we had dozens of printed circuit board designs that were laid out for a particular footprint, and could not ship product because we were getting scrap from Mexico.  So we had to source a product from Taiwan because it was physically the only thing that would fit, and then scrap thousands of printed circuit boards and re-layout new ones.  A couple of years later the V.P. of sales approached me at a trade show and asked if I would give their part line another chance.  His reason.....they had moved manufacturing from Mexico to China after two years in Mexico because they could not straighten out the QC problem.  But hey the labor is cheap!

The wireless coil for couch potatoes.?

Land drone with wireless coil + GPS logger + physical marking chit(drop plastic poker chip) etc.  Folding lawn chair with umbrella and beverage holder(very important!).

Useful for athletic fields, flat beaches, and golf courses(night time only). ⛳

If you were a Full Line Dealer with one to show and one to go then you would be stocking 38 detectors.  Taking the Gemini out of the mix puts it at 36.  And then maybe some models are Distributor specific and possibly Big Box only models.

But working a sales counter it's much more efficient to have a Good, Better, and Best scheme with clear differentiation between those tiers.  Training sales people on the minor differences between a dozen or so similar models near the same street price point and feature set, would not be the best use of time.  If the dealership also carries Tek and B&H then even more muddying of a purchase decision is thrown in.

Perhaps working a sales floor while living off of a Commission and Spiffs would provide some important training when it comes to laying out a product line.

One of the disadvantages of many of the U.S. based manufacturers is that they have been closely held family run businesses.  That means that if the CEO makes poor decisions then there is "no replace or fire the CEO".  This has also led to some internal family conflicts which distracts and diverts energy/attention from the business itself.  Then there is the matter of aging and the transition of management to younger individuals.