Argyris

21 hours ago, PPP said:

I read somewhere that this silicon cover you put on the display making the detector warm inside and it damage the unit,don't know if t was a bull or right??

In general, having the detector seating under high temperatures and direct hot sunlight (beach) and then suddenly expose it to lower temperatures (water) is not good...

The sudden temperature change could cause something like a vacuum inside the control box which tends to "suck" water inside if it finds even a tiny passage. Furthermore, the sudden contraction-expansion of the housing due to the temperature changes may also weaken the waterproofing and seals. Having a silicon cover in such hot conditions will just worsen these effects to a degree...

In any case, I don't believe that a simple silicon cover can be so well fitted to the box to be able to watertight it further anyway, and can't watertight the battery compartment also. Maybe a "heat shrink" polycarbonate bag would do a better job but the plugs would be still a problem.

The "watertigth enclosure box" that we're talking about some posts ago seems like an effective modification, but even if it works, it will require many conversions for the plugs, charging, mounting etc, and will also make the box very bulky which will worsen the underwater ergonomics and compactness of the machine, and will also cancel the settings adjustment ability while underwater.

If you inspect the housing and sealing of a Multi Kruzer vs Equinox for example (equal price tag, same IP rating), you will immediately see how better the MK design is regarding underwater use in shallow depths...it's built like a tank and with far less possible water passages (eg, battery is inside and not in the exposed to the shaft handle with just a paper breathing filter cap, speaker sits in its own extra watertight compartment etc) and as a plus, MK is extremely easy to open the box (it's not molded, has screws & orings in the perimeter) so you can immediately ispect the electronics if needed and service the housing after some underwater sessions (something that all underwater equipment needs anyway). Haven't heard of a single one MK drown yet, and I'm already considering selling the Nox and buy myself a MK as a do it all machine...even if it's not multi simultaneously freq. Afterall, we bought a machine rated as underwater (shallow) capable so we shouldn't have such issues to discuss and multiple drowning reports from the start...Nox is excellent, but not for underwater use and advertising it as such was unfortunate...good to have such a nice guarantee, but better to have equipment that wont need a guarantee.

That's my 2c

ps to Joe: if I remember correctly, you also own a Pulsedive with the larger 8'' coil.....such a great little PI for snorkelling....small, ergonomic, instant target recovery, easy, "stealthy"... and very "ring/coin" capable so far...if we could just make it a liiiiittle more sensitive to detect at least the medium-larger sized chains/crussifix etc (eg with shorter pulse delay but not so much to react to salt) it could be a really nice option for snorkelling fun.....but unfortunattely can't happen...and without iron rejection could be also a nightmare to chase tiny iron bits....anyway...just thinking out loud here.

Enough said, I have to stop posting and reposting... have a nice day everyone! 🙂

"Equinox Condom...better safe than sorry..." 😆😆😆

(in fact, is not such a bad idea....if we just insulate the battery cover eg with removable silicon, then the "condom" option could work...? hmmm.....But again...we have the cables.....not good...)

Anyway, I'll think seriously of the watertight box solution to see what can be done.

Thanks for the nice conversation guys! ❤️

Yeap, I remember the post 'cause in my head was imprinted as the "condom solution" !!! 😁

7 minutes ago, Joe D. said:

   I have another item that i bought some time ago off of ebay! But i can't find them anymore! Its a silicone cover and battery plug for the nox! Thr only problem with it is you cannot see the screen through the white silicone! But it does make the pod waterproof!👍👍

 

Yes Joe, I remember that you mentioned something similar in the past...I have kept the original thread of yours: 

Not so optimistic that I (we) could advance this into a full specs product, but maybe worth a try at least for anyone who wish to satisfy the underwater need since is a pretty easy solution as descibed by Pimento above (thanks again mate!).

Just to remind you, something similar has already hit the market in the past (search for "Sea Ghost Housing") but unfortunatelly requires sending the original unit abroad (I think in Ucraine) since it is a much more advance modification (a complete new housing, electronics relocation etc.)

In any case, If I decide to give it a try, I'll keep everyone posted 🙂

Clear!

Thanks Pimento, a great food for thought and not so difficult to apply...If I decide do go this route I'll let everyone know of the results!

Thanks for the info my friend....seems like a great idea to think of, since I already have a capable detector and the only problem is the better waterproofing of the control box...should save me a lot of money if I could make it work safelly underwater.

Just to be sure that I completelly understand the whole idea (and to answer to the battery question)...: 

1) the original Equinox' control box has its battery inside the handle...and the handle is molded with the control box at its base. I assume that the modification we're talking about is putting the equinox control box as is with no further mods (=without exposing the inner electronics, screen etc) in an external "open/close" waterproof enclosure like the ones you linked, but without the handle...right? So we have to cut and discard the handle part at the base point, which leaves us with only the square control box to put inside the new watertight enclosure. So if that's the case, we must also put the battery inside the encolure...that's what I meant. Another option is to leave the handle connected to the control box as is, but then we'll have to adjust and connect the waterproof enclosure around the handle's cylindrical base also in a watertight way...don't need to do so I believe..

2) regarding the coil & headphones connections: if I understand right, the new waterproof enclosure will have 2 permanent outer attached chassis-mounted plugs for the external connection of the coil and the headphones cables. These chassis-mounted plugs will be glued watertight on the enclosure, and further connected internally to the control box with 2 short extension cables to the original control box plugs...Am I right?

3) practically, if all works, we'll finally have the original equinox control box unmodified inside the new watertight enclosure: We'll just have to open the enclosure to make our settings before diving, then close the enclosure, connect the coil & headphones in its external plugs and go hunting...Same when he want to charge the battery...open the enclosure and charge via the original control box' magnetic charger. The enclosure can be either mounted on the shaft somehow or we can simply chest/waist mount it...

4) Do you think that the increased working temperature of the control box will create any condensation or blur problems inside?

Pimento thanks, in fact just today I discovered the Sea Ghost housing solution that maybe you're aware off... a complete new waterproof housing for the electronics etc.... However, the modification requires sending the unit to Ukraine to get it fixed, and also total modification cost must be high...I guess >200€

I am a mechanical engineer so I really trying to think of a similar DIY solution to make myself...I believe that even an "open/close" waterproof box (without any buttons or original control box modifications) could be a solution, since I could have my settings already preadjusted before going in the water and no need for further adjustments while snorkelling... The think is that 1) I have to find or somehow make a suitable sized box,  2) to pass & re-screw the coil's & headphone's sockets ον the box in a watertight way...and 3) to put the battery also inside the box (that's the easy part)*

*I understand that the Sea Ghost solution is really nice since it has the screen and all controls & electronics reconnected to the box itself, but I wouldn't dare to try such a total mod myself in my control box... many electronics will need mods and I don't have the knowledge to do it

ps. Regarding the shaft, yes...I have already modified a second one in order to be shorter for underwater use, and I also use the smaller 6'' coil a lot

ps#2: If you have in mind any affordable watertight housing that I could buy and easily modify for the cables, I'm all ears! But it has to be something like some underwater cameras use...easy to open to adjust settings before going underwater, for battery charging etc, and easy to close with o-ring in the perimeter to waterproof it..I'm thinking out loud here...maybe is much more complicated than that, but maybe not...have to think about it...

Thanks again! 🙂

Damn right Joe...if you wanna see the rainbow you gotta put out with the rain first! I just need a little patience for everything to get back to normal!

Thanks mate, I'll keep you posted!

Thanks guys, indeed no matter how many searches I tried, I didn't find any leaking issues reported for Multi Kruzers....That was my main concern and fear, so I assume that they must have way better waterproofing than the Equinox which has numerous drown reports....

Afterall, snorkelling is all about 2 to 3m max, with most of it at even shallower chest level depths so I don't need a 200' (and expensive) rated machine.

Anyway, I'll read as much as I can before any decision, but both machines mentioned are good options. Seahunter is way cheaper and well proven to do the job. On the other hand, Multi Kruzer will need underwater headphones so total cost will be higher, but it's much more versatile and discrimination may prove a huge plus, even in my clean underwater areas. 

Don't wanna stretch this thread more since I already have some good advice and options.

Thanks again 🙂

Yes wltdwiz thank you, it's one of my options as discussed in this thread and I'm already considering it as an alternative as you can see above....but my main concern is, is it real waterproof or is it like Equinox???? Multi Kruzer is IP68...same as Equinox....and many MANY Equinox drown (including mine)....So is Multi Kruzer tested to be real watertight in snorkelling depths or it will eventually fail like Equinox does?

Bottom line: I don't wanna make the same mistake again and buy another machine that will drown while snorkelling like Equinox did.....in my eyes and whatever marketing says, an IP68 is not a real submersible device for continious underwater use, even at very small depths...but this is my opinion so correct me if I'm wrong.

Kac & nickeldNdimed many thanks to both of you....I read very carefully your sugestions regarding both machines.

I made a quick comparative table between the two, to help me decide which would be better for snorkelling.

Based on this, I think that Garrett's Seahunter Mark II is closer to my needs...real scuba capabilities, enough sensitivity for small gold underwater, very easy to use, scuba friendly setup (short shaft, box can be hip mounted), includes scuba headphones, excellent salt handling. Furthermore, since I already have a multi vlf (Equinox), I think it would be wiser to also have a Pulse Induction machine vs just another vlf in my arsenal...

Overall, seahunter seems a really good and very affordable choice with only two key-points to consider before i make my mind:

- Practically, I understand that it cannot be used in discrimination mode since it will also cancel small targets of interest (as Kac pointed out), so it will be a "dig it all" machine. Most underwater areas seem to have a very good trash/treasure ratio so far (based on my Equinox experience), so this may be not a problem at all... HOWEVER I have to state that I have never used such a PI machine, so I'm not aware of its power/sensitivity vs Equinox sensitivity in super tiny junk...based on my experience with Equinox in Beach 2 mode, sens at 17 & full open (could hear iron at lower volume), underwater iron was not so much...BUT, if you believe that a PI such as the Seahunter is way much more sensitive than Equinox, then please warn me before I'll go insane chasing micro sized iron. If it's like Equinox, it will be really fine in my areas.

*In either case, if there is any other real scuba detector for 2-m depths to recommend, in the same price range, which also has a descent iron discrimination and yet sensitive to small gold, I'm all ears! 🙂

- Its Ground Balance is preset....so non adjustable. Question is, will it handle black sand and/or hot rocks or it will go crazy if there is any black sand underwater? If it's still ok  in black sand or there are ways to make it run steady there, then not a problem. My beaches are medium mineralized anyway...equinox didn't have any problem there.

10 hours ago, Joe D. said:

Hey Argyris,

  Where you been man!! Haven't seen a post from you in some time, but glad your back! 

   I understand your frustration with the Nox! Ive been through two pod failures, and three coil tab failures! But still and all, a great land and very shallow water detector!

   I think Kac has laid it out nicely for you (and me) for an alternative water detector that doesn't break the bank!

   Don't be a stranger!! I want to hear what you pick, and how it does for you!

  Good Luck!! Get some sleep!!👍👍 

Hey Joe, glad to hear from you again my friend! Indeed, it's been a while since my last activity in the forum, but this year is killing me man (lost my job due to this Corona virus joke, broke up with my gf, a total mesh overall...). Anyway, I'm still trying to find my steps again but I'm slowly reactivating myself to my favorite hobbies....hope this nightmare will end soon for all of us..!

Gonna take some sleep for now (it's 02:40 in Greece :p)....but thanks again for helping me out....I will definetelly check the Multi Kruzer (which in fact, after re-reading your posts, you run it the same way I'm running my Nox...fully open - no disc, and only using "audio" discrimination with lower volume for the unwanted notches). For now, it seems to fulfill my needs...if its trully waterproof at 2/3m then maybe it's the winner combination I'm searching for and not too expensive also...

Thanks mate

I'm watching some youtube reviews on the Multi Kruzer right now and as you confirm it can pick thin gold chains even in deep saltwater and even stretched out, and it seems pretty stable too in beach mode... 

...However I have to check if it's trully waterproof to decide if it's a good candidate for my needs

Interesting results......so the Multi Kruzer picks up the chain in the 5khz Beach Mode?

Then, If it can also handle salty underwater conditions and remainss stable, it could be a very good option.....but I have to double-triple check some reviews regarding its waterproofing true capabilities at 2-3m depths...

ps. Edited my previous post regarding SH specs...I thought it didn't have disc

Very informative....many thanks! 

Overall, I hear you very carefully regarding discrimination...Indeed, the only PI type detector I have ever used is the small Pulsedive I mentioned, so I have really no true experience in PIs but I thought I could handle it underwater...But, if a PI is so much sensitive to tiny iron to drive me mad with no disc, then I may have to reconsider my options (sea hunter has disc?). Regardless, Garret Seahunter Mark II is well proven for underwater use (as I also read in many reviews), and its price is awesome for my budget...

- Multi Kruzer is also not extremmely expensive so it could be an option..., nice features incl discrimination, nice reviews overall, but I'm afraid if IP68 rating gonna be enough for snorkelling depths...Equinox was also IP68 but MANY drowned them (incl me)...don't wanna make the same mistake again! 

pfff.....my options are more complicated that I thought....thanks again for your informative responses!

Yeah...Pulsedive is awesome for what it does, but even with the small dive coil which I have, not a chance in gold chains..even the mid-sized ones....not enough sensitivity to see them.

Excal is indeed popular but a little old...and also out of reach for my budget.

Now...regarding the rest, I don't mind to use a PI since underwater I dig everything anyway, and trash/treasure rate in my areas is very acceptable...so a Pulse Induction is very welcome as a proposal... In general, I think that I need either a PI, or a Multi VLF in order to handle the salty conditions....

Ps. I have to take a look at the detectors you mentioned (TDI Beach hunter, SeaHunter & especially the Multi Kruzer). For the Multi Kruzer I have already some thumbs up but still I'm a little puzzled if it can handle salty conditions like Equinox does...If I remember correctly, Multi Kruzer uses either 5/14/19Khz but not simultaneously...so at 5Khz will it be sensitive enough for small gold ??? (not talking about super tiny staff, just the average gold chain). (And this time I must be sure for the waterproofing...it must be much better than the Equinox)

Anyway, I'll have a look at them to see if something fits!

Thanks for the response! 

🙂

Hey guys, it's been a while...hope you're all doing well!

I need your advice before making any decision to buy new equipment...

A great (and most favorite) part of my treasure hunting is underwater (salt water) for jewelry...Until recently, my main underwater detector was my Equinox 800 with really good results... but unfortunatelly, whatever safety measures I took or mods I made, I didn't avoid almost drowing of the control box. Thankfully I got it fixed, but no more Equinox for underwater use...can't risk a second drowing. 

Long story short, I also have a pretty nice Makro Pulsedive (small coil) which has produced some nice underwater gold rings, but I can tell that this small PI hasn't the power and sensitivity that Nox has, especially in small gold (chains & crusifix)...If somehow I could make the Pulsedive more sensitive in small gold, it's compact size would be all that I need while snorkeling...Its new larger 8'' coil could be a good option for some better depth and coverage, but unfortunatelly can't make it more small gold sensitive......The Nox instead, even in the very low weighted Beach 2 mode was far more sensitive in small gold than the Pulsedive and with great stability in salt water. 

So...what would you do? Underwater hunting is one of my favorite activities but what options do I have regarding a trully waterproof equipment for snorkeling depths (max 2-3m)?

I need something compact enough, with a descent small gold sensitivity in salty conditions and a real waterproof design for 2-3m snorkeling depths....Underwater trash/treasure ratio is pretty low in my areas so I don't mind a Pulse Induction machine with no iron etc discrimination.....but I'm looking for the most compact and budget friendly option here since I already have the Equinox for all my other hunts and don't wanna break the bank (Excalibur is an expensive option)....any thoughts?

I think you'll be very impressed with their sound quality and volume underwater Joe....! Mine also came with some behind the ear additional earplugs to stay put but don't seem to need it....if you use the right size in-ear plug they won't come out at all...at least in my experience so far!

ps. Make sure you bought the ones with the normal lenght 1m cord (cause I remember there is a short cord version also)

Can't wait for your opinion when you try them underwater mate! Other than that, only time will tell if they last..so best of luck to both of us with our purchase!

16 minutes ago, Joe D. said:

Good pics!! Love the workaround! Too bad the wireless module doesn't work underwater, then you could do the same thing!!🤔🤔🤔   👍👍

Joe indeed...everything would be so much easier if we could go wireless underwater!

Anyway, I may go a step further and buy the bungee wire extension you proposed (or use and modify my minelab's yellows cord to use with the H2O earphones)...not only for better sealing, but to also have some extra length in use while underwater, and also strengthen the first cms of the connection due to the thicker cord of the bungee/yellow's cord (in order to handle the continious bending of the cord to avoid any breakage etc)

PPP, is a really simple mod...

First, you have to pierce the original plastic screw cap in the same diameter as the 3.5mm earphones jack elastic body. The smoothness of the hole itself is not critical (I know I could do much better drilling), but the "face" of the screw piece has to be smooth and even in order to have good complete contact with the o-ring when you connect them. (see below)

Next and most important, you must find an o-ring that fits perfectly to the earphones 3.5mm jack elastic body, and is wide enough to be almost the same diameter as the plastic plugs "face". 

When you insert the earphones 3.5mm jack in the Nox jack with the above o-ring in it's body, you then screw the modified plastic plug until it's face comes flash with the o-ring and that's it. The screw will move forward the 0-ring against the jack and it will watertight it. Now the water and-or sand can only insert between the plastic screw's hole margin and the o-ring, but cannot insert the jack hole itself.

*Joe D above gave a much better alternative (bungee wire extension that has a ML waterproof end and a 1/8 plug end) that I may try also, but as you know, the Nox jack itslef is waterproof inside the tiny hole and the extra o-ring I used is already a step up. Don't forget to rinse after every use and it should be fine!

**Another option would be to use the cord and jack of the minelab's yellows that I already have (that would be a perfect solution regarding sealing and strenghtening of the earphones thin cord also, but don't wanna mess with the yellows since they are brand new and nice to have a back-up in my backpack)

Thank you all!

I have miles and miles of virgin shorelines here to keep me busy for a looong time (all the finds above where recovered from just a short 100m of beach...and with same target intensity every day..will return next week there to find more staff), and also can't wait for some trips to our "hot" Greek islands (mykonos, santorini etc) in the end of the tourist session to see if I can get any "international" gold there!

The main thing that gets me so excited, is the luck of aluminum junk underwater...I mean, almost every signal is a coin or lead (ooor something even better..gold..silver..even relics) and not aluminum at all...obviously, people dont use/through aluminum junk underwater, and even the minimum amount of aluminum is so light that the waves take care of it....And of course not to mention the easy recovery underwater also (just some fanning) witch helps with time efficiency! If you remember my older comments, I had a really hard time in the dry part of my pebble beaches with all these aluminum junk and difficult recovery diging through the pebbles...the underwater conditions are completelly different and remains for me to see if other alike old beaches will behave the same.

ps. Chase thanks, indeed..the temperature issue was my only real concern before sealing everything and I was already alerted by a post of yours in another thread regarding the temperature issue..however, when underwater temp is not a problem indeed due to water-cooling effect as you say, and I really don't hunt in the daylight (dry beach or inland) in summer days..only night hunts in dry beach in summer so I will be fine I guess. Furthermore, when I reach to the beach, I try to submerge the machine asap and not leave it in sunlight in order to not have expansion/contruction issues due to extreme temp differences..And of course, same as everything that's used in salt water, a full water rinse after every hunt and some silicon sprey where needed is a total must. However only time will tell if the mods I did will give any side effects, I believe not but will see.

Best to all,

Argyris

Hey guys,

I've been using my Nox 800 underwater (salt water) for some days now (7 underwater hunts total, about 2 hours each), and thought I could share some first results, plus give a nice and cheap alternative to the minelab yellow headphones for underwater use if anyone interested.

My first ever snorkel-dive with Nox in my usual pebble beach was by using just the speaker (no headphones) with my head submerged, and as expected, I soon realized that this wasn't enough...even with my head underwater was very difficult to hear through the speaker due to extremely low volume even in calm sea...(however, as already posted in my first topic in the forum, I was still able to get my first whote gold ring with Nox using just the speaker 🙂). Anyway, in my second hunt I bought the Minelab's yellows, but to my experience with them, again I wasn't able to hear the signals good enough underwater due to their low vol especially after some minutes underwater when the soft earpads and the space between was geting full of water. Furthermore, the yellows are huge headphones and I need to be more descret in my beaches this time of year. In my last hunts however, I tried something different and wanted to share my experience...I bought a pair of 100% waterproof and submersible swimming in-ear headphones especially designed for swimming and watersports that had some quite good reviews from athletes around... the product is the "H2O Surge+ waterpoof headphones" (company is "H2O") and bought them for $40 through Amazon...(arrived from amazon UK). Well guys, in my last underwater hunts with them, my experience is tremendously good....their sound quality underwater and their volume is honestly out of this world, and I'm not kidding...especially when comparing to Minelab's yellows. Volume is high enough to hear even the tinniest faint signal and you feel the tone inside your ear like hell... their earplugs completelly seal the external sounds also, and their sound-tones & bass quality is very immpresive for such a small pair of headphones. These small earbuds come with a 3.6ft straight cord so at least for me were comfortable enough while snorkelling and still able to leave the Nox in the bottom (chest depth max) while relaxing in the surface with my mask waiting for the "recovery fog" to leave. Their speakers are 100% waterpoof (IPX8 rating) and can be submerged to 3.5m depth no prob. The company states that maybe sometimes they need equalization (blowing air inside them) but sinnce now I didn't need it. However the cord is thin so you mast be carefull not to stretch it, and if you feel to you can make an easy mod to seal the hole-plug of the Nox where they are inserted (I made a simple yet effective mod by drilling a small hall to the original plastic protective threaded plug of the nox, and used 2 perfect fit o-rings inside to seal the 3.5mm jack connection while screwing the plastic plug...you already know that the nox is waterproof in that point also, but better safe than sorry and made the extra mile to seal it better). As already stated, the H2O earbuds are designed for athletes (especially designed for swimming and watersports) and come 5 sets of earplugs to fit perfectly in every ear...in my ears they fit so nice and they completely seal external sounds and water from my ear canal. Don't wanna say much more about them, and waiting to see how they handle overtime, but as for now I'm totally impressed with them and their volume and sound quality, and my finds went immediatelly up.

Furthermore, In fear of flooding the Nox in the future as many other members experienced, and in order to make it more usable underwater while snorkelling, I made some extra mods. I totally water-sealed the machine by: a) using silicon paste inside the battery compartment inside the handle (removable if needed but should be a pain to remove)...b) used marine epoxy paste to seal the control box and screen perimeter where the plastic parts join together, and also sealed the point that the control pad meets the handle (critical point there).... c) completelly sealed and eliminated the external speaker (will never use it anyway)...d) made a custom shaft by modifying the original lower shaft to shorten it and also drilled a small drain hole near the bottom...I know I may void the warranty with my mods, but took the risk and now I'm using the machine underwater with piece of mind.

Results: As already said, I have used my Nox underwater for 7 hunts till now...about 2 hours each. Attached some photos of the finds. In these +/- 14 hours I have:

- 4 gold rings: All are solid gold (14k & 9k the smallest one), except the large and heavy one wich is bi-metal silver with 14k gold piece on top. (ps. the top white 14k gold ring with small diamonds is the one I posted some days ago)

- 1 crusifix (silver with gold Christ) 

- Almost €22 in change

- 82(!) old clad coins (all are pre-euro drachmas..no worth unfortunatelly, but yeap 82 of them in these 14 hours)

- Good amount of lead sinkers (including some huge ones)

- 2 spoons, 3 keys, a jank pin jewel piece, a junk watch, and a live HXP-95 military cartridge (strange to find it underwater though..!)

- Aluminum junk: MINIMUM!..we're talking almost no junk comparing to dry hunt!!! I think I gonna love this underwater thing!!!!! 😄

Ps. My Nox settings if someone's interested are: Beach 2, Recovery @5, Iron Bias F2@0 , 2 tones only (pitch 1 for iron / pitch 23 for non-fe), notch only -9 to -7 to avoid ground/ceramic rocks underwater (all other is open and able to hear iron from -6 to 0 in low vol pitch 1), tone break @0, sensitivity @17, GB manual by pumping sideways (have uneven bottom), no threshold.

That's all 🙂

Happy hunting everyone!

Argyris