Wayfarer

15 minutes ago, Tnsharpshooter said:

Comparing the 800 model to 600 model, one will notice the different span of setting here on the 800 vs the 600 model.

So, question are these settings the (0-3) the same actually performance effect wise between the 2 models the same, or is the span with each model reflected different with the 800 model allowing for more fine tuning (more in between settings from highest to lowest)?

Or does the 800 model offer actually 5 additional settings (higher) here over the level 3 setting for actual effects the 600 model doesn't?

My guess would be that like with the Recovery Speed settings, it gives both a wider range higher and lower as well as finer in-between settings.  So 1=2, 2=4, 3=6 or something similar. 

My other guess is that the Iron Bias setting is a filter setting that allows some of the iron signal to bleed through even though it is being discriminated against.  When slow hunting for deep coins, for example, you might want to opt for a higher level of "bleed through" to get stronger signals on deep high conductors that have both a tendency to wrap and read as iron.  The opposite situation would be cherry picking in heavy iron where depth is not as important and you can adjust to make sure the iron gets fully disc'd out.  Just a guess, of course, but it's probably something along those lines.  This would be a very useful adjustment.  This is yet one more reason to choose the 800.  

With the V3i and MXT, I'm covered for urban park/school/old house hunting.  But I spend a lot of time in the Idaho backcountry, hiking, jeeping, exploring, and didn't really have a detector I could bring along for when I come across a possible detecting spot, like swimming holes, campsites, old homesites, or just any interesting site.  For backpacking, weight and breakdown size are important, as is being waterproof so I can check around natural hot springs and other freshwater swimming areas.  Waterproof also means I can hose it down at the end of the day from riding around in the back of my Jeep getting covered in dust.  And when I'm down on the river, like when I'm rafting, trying a little nuggetshooting, or just messing around, I can have a detector that can get wet.  

I have that little 4x6 shooter coil, and it's V-rated.  As soon as I get a chance, I will redo that comparison test between the V3i and the MXT that I did with the 6x10 but with the little shooter coil instead.  The V3i did well on tiny gold, it's just that the MXT did a little better.  At least with the 6x10.  But heck, with as little as you can pick up a V3i these days, if it does well with the 4x6, you might as well hunt with a V3i.  The prospecting screen info on the V3i is particularly nice to have, with the graph showing how the ground changes over time.  

I agree with Auminesweeper.  I don't really prospect much, but I do hunt for gold micro jewelry, and the MXT is actually a little hotter than the V3i on small bits of gold, even with the V3i in 22.5 single frequency mode.  I did a comparison test once where I measured air test distances of the two detectors on tiny real gold nuggets.  Both detectors on highest sensitivity, no disc, and using the same White's 6x10 DD coil swapped between the two detectors.  I was expecting to find the V3i a little hotter on gold, but the opposite was true:  the MXT was slightly, but measurably, in repeated tests, hotter than the V3i.  This was a very surprising result, but that's what I found.  I have a printout of the test results here somewhere in my office if I can find it ... 

Steve, thank you for the great writeup and taking the time to share with us your spectacular finds.  Your haul is positively amazing.  That's about how well I do on old coins in an entire season of hunting my hunted out parks here in Boise. 

Like you and others in this thread have expressed, having experienced what it used to be like, it's hard to get excited at all anymore about finding any old coins.  Back in the early 80's when I was out hunting all day several times per week, your haul would be typical for me in a day.  I digress, but many sites I hunted had been hunted before, but usually very incompletely.  I could even usually tell what pattern previous hunters had taken at the site by where the patches of virgin ground were located ..and there was always huge areas of virgin ground remaining at every location, even city parks.  Oh, to be back in time at those locations again ...  Anyway, nowadays with every square inch of every park and school having been covered many times over, I focus on the outdoor exercise benefit and meditative serenity of metal detecting and don't have much hope, or care, of finding anything very good anymore, other than occasional recent jewelry drops.  Judging by many posts I read, this is probably how a lot of us guys look at the hobby these days.  You have to have a whole change in mental attitude otherwise you will be very frustrated, especially for those of us who can remember 10-15 silvers (or more) in a day being the norm.  Nowadays, if I can start hoping for even one silver a day, I'll be in heaven.  It sounds like the Equinox's strength is unmasking and Target ID, which could very well unlock at least a few of what have to be many remaining but heavily masked goodies left in those "worked out" spots.

What the Equinox is bringing back is a little of the magic of the early days, when you could actually expect to find at least a few old coins and artifacts with every outing.  And your writing (very well done!) is really helping stoke those old magical feelings again.  Even if it helps bring back 1% of the old magic, the Equinox will be well worth the very reasonably purchase price.  

Thanks again Steve for your great writing and for bringing back just a little of the old magic.  

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

So technically speaking all Minelab has to do is EQUAL single frequency for raw depth while delivering the extreme target id accuracy for which multifrequency is famous.

Here is a key quote from Minelab:

Also, expect no performance downside running in "Multi" compared to a single frequency. Unless in Gold Mode, we recommend "Multi" as the best frequency option. 

I think we can agree that what we want here is better target id at depth, and by depth I simply mean in such a way that other detectors are currently not doing it. 

What three years of detecting locally did for me was show machine after machine hitting an identical wall 

Thanks for clearing up which statement by Minelab you were referring to.  That statement is very significant, since it asserts that with the Equinox you are getting all the benefits of multi without the downside of reduced depth. 

And yes, we are talking about Target ID at depth.  I can hit the deepest of targets all day long in G.E.B. Max mode with my old White's 6000, but that, of course, is in all-metal mode without any ID information.  But ID at depth is the current holy grail for VLF.  If we could get accurate ID at the depth the old 6000 in all-metal could hit targets at, then we'd be cleaning up at all the old worked-out sites.  I have to believe this potential can be unlocked by better implementation of multifrequency with faster processors and more finely tuned and better written DSP algorithms.  Sounds like that's what Minelab has done with the Equinox. Even if it's not quite at the max depth of all-metal, if they have made significant improvements at getting closer to all-metal max depth with accurate Target ID, that will be a huge leap forward.  

And I totally agree with you that all Minelab really has to do is EQUAL single frequency flagship depth as long as it also has better Target ID at depth.  

34 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I have to admit that after years of rumors about new patents and truly new designs, the latest round of repackaging kind of broke this camels back. 

I'm totally with you on that, Steve.  It's very frustrating to see promises made time and again only to have them not live up to the hype, or never get released at all. 

It appears what Minelab has done, is bring together ALL the possible and desired capabilities of current VLF state-of-the-art combined with modern processor power into one detector.  It's not really any "new" tech per se, just a complete total package of everything that is possible with today's technology in a thoroughly well thought-out design.  Any detector company with a sufficiently large R&D budget and bright engineers could have done that, it's just that Minelab beat them to the punch.  

35 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Not for me. It only remains to be seen for those who have not seen it or who just don't want to believe what Minelab is saying. The secret sauce with Equinox is Multi-IQ, not single frequency. Anyone can build a great single frequency detector and if that's what people crave there are plenty to choose from. Only Minelab will be building Multi-IQ and the Equinox is going to live or die based on it's multifrequency performance, not it's single frequency legacy modes.

Admittedly, I have not seen it, but I *do* desperately want to believe what Minelab is saying.  By "what they are saying" I assume you mean their statement that the Equinox "obsolete all single frequency detectors."  If they actually have a detector that can, in multifrequency mode, beat the raw depth and power of any number of flagship single frequency detectors, then they will truly have a winner on their hands that will live up to the hype.  

From a technological point of view, if the Equinox Multi-IQ uses some sort of a rotating frequency transmission, like pulses of each frequency in rapid succession, then that would make it more likely to achieve the goal of matching single frequency raw power, since essentially it's operating in single frequency but rapidly changing and then combining the info into a single output via powerful processing.  The V3i, in contrast, is *true* simultaneous multi frequency, in that it operates in all three of its frequencies literally simultaneously, so it must split its output power amongst the three frequencies.  The Equinox, by contrast, if it's rapidly (talking milliseconds)rotating through each of the single frequencies, wouldn't have that limitation.  

I'm a beleiver, as I've had my 800 on preorder, and prepaid, since the first week it was announced in September.  

34 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

the latest 13 - 15 kHz single frequency detector dressed up to look new is the past.

Ouch, MX7 and F75+!  

It remains to be seen if the Equinox will have the raw power in multi-frequency mode.  I suspect it will, but that has been a shortcoming of other multi frequency designs.  With the White's V3i, for instance, you do get noticeably more power and depth out of a single frequency than you do in multi frequency.  Multi still has the advantage in every other way, but if you are looking for depth over all else, single frequency still is the best choice usually.  With the CTX, we never really knew what the potential would have been in single frequency operation, since that was not an option.  

That's one of the many questions I can't wait to see answered in the next month or two:  whether the Equinox in multi frequency is as deep as it is in single frequency.  

So there it is.  Late January.  Hooray!

Holy smokes, that's some nasty stuff!  You are really putting the Equinox through the ringer then, and if it can handle that stuff about as well as any VLF, then that's good news.  Not expecting miracles, but it's nice to know that at least the Eq doesn't completely choke in that tough sand.  Soon we'll be reading about your first nugget finds, let's hope.  Thanks for the report.  

Welcome to the forum Randy.  Seems like you'll be a good fit.  Lots of us here try to make our posts worthwhile, staying positive, and making a contribution to the hobby.  That's the idea, anyway.

Steve, great shot of Lake Tahoe. That's my idea of paradise!  I just flew over Tahoe about an hour ago on my way to SFO.  Beautiful sunny day, turquoise water, and snow in the mountains.  Shoulda waved out the window to you.    How'd she do on the freshwater sand?  

Gerry, great to see you on the forum.  Ah ha, so there is an Equinox in Boise...I know that location well, in fact I think I cleaned out all the rusty bottlecaps around that very tree, just watch all the goose poop.    Good luck at the training, I can't wait to learn what the Equinox is all about and I know you will pass on everything you learn.  And those are two lucky staff members!  

Darren

12 hours ago, Gerry in Idaho said:

I feel the 3 Star Rating on the DISCRIMINATION is because the $1550 E-Trac and $2500 CTX 3030 have way more intel.

Exactly.  All you get with the 800 is Target ID #, but with the etrac and ctx, you get ferrous number and target trace with the visual plots.  So you can see more of what the machine is telling you.  But with the 800 you're "stuck" with just one 2-digit number.  It'd better have good audio.

That, and they have to give they're higher priced machines more stars.  It's only the marketing dept speaking, not engineering, though.  We'll know soon enough, just as soon as there are lots of them in our hands.  

28 minutes ago, Mark Gillespie said:

https://www.minelab.com/usa/metal-detectors/treasure-detectors/equinox-600

 

 

Simple glitch.  Fixed now.

So, no release likely 'til after Christmas.  OK, by me.  Better to get it right than fast.  

Looks like there is no new content, Equinox still "coming soon," no announcements, and nothing new posted on any of the pages about the Equinox.  

Awesome, thanks Steve.  This is another huge advantage of the 800 then over the 600.  It would've been nice to have a true all metal mode with the other frequencies, but it's most important in the 20 and 40 prospecting mode, so I'll certainly take that.

Does Gold mode have a S.A.T. and is it speed adjustable?  

And I'm wondering about a separate question:  Does Target ID display in pinpoint mode?  That could be a workaround to get non-motion all-metal in the other modes.

Thanks again Steve.  I'm just trying to get our minds of this whole release date/Minelab's website being down thing.  

This may have been answered somewhere already, I searched and couldn't find an answer, but my question is:  Does the new Equinox have a true all-metal mode?  Like when you press the Horseshoe button?    By "all-metal" I mean non-motion, non-disc filter, unfiltered all-metal audio.  

There is kind of a "hybrid" all-metal mode that bypasses the disc filter circuits (not just disc set to zero) but requires a small amount amount of motion because it has a self-adjusting threshold in all-metal.  Is this how the Equinox operates?  Or when you press the "Horseshoe" there isn't any S.A.T. and you are in true non-motion all-metal?   

I've been spoiled by all my true non-motion all-metal detectors because of the large depth gains that usually come with non-motion all-metal, so I hope that is how it works with the Eq.  Thanks.

3 hours ago, Tom Slick said:

On the 600 you have a choice of three single frequencies plus MF which is five frequencies.

On the 800 you have a choice of five single frequencies plus MF which is five frequencies.

The difference being that the two additional single frequencies available on the 800 (20 & 40 kHZ) are not selectible or available on the 600. 

Thanks for the clarification.  That's what I thought too, but Steve's post made me think that maybe the 600 was dropping off 20 and 40 kHz completely, both in single and multi.  Re-reading his post, I see that "MF" is separate from the three single freqs.

How the MF works is what I am most interested about the Equinox.  It would be nice if ML gave us another installment on Multi-IQ, in particular, how (or if?) the MF differs between the modes.  

12 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

 

Equinox 600:
Park Mode – MF, 5, 10, & 15 kHz
Field Mode – MF, 5, 10, & 15 kHz
Beach Mode – MF only

Equinox 800:
Park – MF, 5 ,10, 15, 20, & 40 kHz
Field – MF, 5 ,10, 15, 20, & 40 kHz
Beach – MF only
Gold – 20 & 40 kHz single frequency modes only

So, I wonder then if the 600 will actually be superior for coinshooters since the search frequencies are concentrated into the three low freqs rather than spread out over all 5 as with the 800?  

September 23rd, and paid in full up front.  Hopefully that will put me near the front of the line.  

41 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

That is proprietary information that Minelab does not share in detail and I will be surprised if they do. It is in effect the highly secretive and protected "secret sauce". To this day Minelab has cloaked just what it is exactly that BBS and FBS machines are doing. People argue about number of frequencies when that is a red herring. What is Minelab doing internally by way of algorithms to compare and process the multiple frequency information - that is where the real magic is. It is telling that although the BBS patent expired long ago that nobody else has produced a BBS knockoff. The frequency info is easy to determine with a scope, but that tells you nothing about the internal processing.

All information about how Multi-IQ works comes direct from Minelab and nowhere else. What you read, I read, and with just as much interest. Minelab will be doing more Multi-IQ information releases that will no doubt shed more light on the matter, but certain details will remain secret no matter what.

Naturally, we would all like to know as much of the secret sauce behind Minelab's new technology.   At least the question about relative signal strength of the different frequencies ought to be easy to answer with a scope and spectrum analyzer.  Of course, the digital processing that goes on will likely remain a mystery.  

It would still be nice if Minelab explained a little as to *why* Park mode is better for parks and in what way, Field for fields, etc., so the operator can understand better what the mode settings are influencing rather than just a "trust us."  There may be some conditions where the operator may want to select Field even though he isn't in an actual plowed field environment.  The more an advanced operator knows how his detector works, the more he can get out of it, and I hope Minelab pulls the curtain back at least a little on the inner workings enough for advanced users to get the most out of the detector.

Thanks for info on the ferrous wrap, too.  So there is enough room between ferrous wrap signals and actual silver coin ID's.  Great to hear!  With the non-ferrous tone options on the 800, especially since they can be adjusted in 50 tone audio mode, we ought to be able to do some decent tweaking to remove the ferrous wrap signals yet retain the true high coin signals.  Of course too much and you lose coins.  Everything is a compromise, but hopefully Minelab left these settings in the hands of the users to decide, at least on the more advanced 800.    

2 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

There is a lot to experiment with here. Four base operating modes with multiple frequency variations and reactivity/recovery speed/detect speed options from extremely slow to lightning fast alone mean more combinations than you can shake a stick at. And nobody should think the names of the modes are more than rough guides. Field Mode is hot on small stuff (think thin hammered and cut silver coins, small gold jewelry) and so may find use with dry sand and tot lot jewelry hunters. It rivals Gold Mode as a potential prospecting mode. And Beach Mode, which runs in Multi only, has potential use in difficult ground mineralization for all types of detecting. Equinox is basically a detector toy box 

Really great report and info, Steve, thanks.  You are really starting to get at what a lot of us have been super anxious to hear about for the last couple of months:  how the detector "feels" in a true real world environment specifically with regard to audio and target ID.  The repeatable coin ID "squeak" is a term you may have coined (no pun intended) that we'll be hearing a lot once this detector gets into consumers' hands.  

One question about the Multi IQ that hopefully you can answer is about how the frequencies operate in the different Multi IQ modes.   Specifically, what parameters change when you go between Park, Field, and Beach?   Do the relative strengths of each frequency change depending on mode?  Even though it is still in Multi, do the signal strengths change among the individual freqs?   When in Park, for example, is there more  energy put into the 5 kHz frequency than the other freqs?    On the V3i, for example, you can operate in either multi or any one single freq.  When you are in multi, the signal strengths of the three frequencies are always the same and are not adjustable.  If on the Equinox, the relative signal strengths are different for each mode when in multi, this would give the operator a huge new adjustment capability never seen before.  Maybe I'm just dreaming, but that would be awesome.  

Maybe there is some other tweaking going on too between the modes, like Beach having a faster auto ground balance tracking?  Can you shed any light on what is going on under the hood when you switch modes but stay in Multi?  Thanks.  

Great information.  Thanks, Steve, for taking the time to put this together in such a coherent manner.

There has been a lot of talk lately that the 600 is the much better bargain, especially once Minelab said that multi freq will operate exactly the same on both units.  But imho the adjustability on the 800 is well worth the price difference, especially once you throw in the wireless headphones and WM08 module.  Sort of like the clipped wings of the VX3 vs the full-featured V3i.  

Besides the 20 and 40 kHz single freq modes, the only big differences between the 600 and 800 are the tone adjustments.  Your explanation ought to really help out anyone trying to decide between the 600 or go all-out and order the 800.  

I think you just sold a bunch more 800's.  

Steve did a nice job on this little video.  I, for one, really like the looks of this MX7.  It's basically a lighter non-waterproof MX Sport (with the bugs worked out), which is basically a MXT with more adjustability and a modern housing.  At a street price around $500, the MX7 is a better value and should have equal or better the performance than the MXT All-Pro, and ought to do well for White's as a solid mid-range detector.