diggindaboot

22 hours ago, cudamark said:

Models get obsoleted all the time, even before Equinox, but, I think we can safely say that the Nox put nails into many coffins. Not all, of course, but, why would anyone buy an AT of any model over an Equinox? Fisher model.....please. Is there one thing an AT or F? can do that a Nox can't do better, or, at least as good? Brand loyalty maybe? Regardless, even if you don't think Minelab has obsoleted any particular single frequency machine, they've sure obsoleted a couple of companies (Tesoro and White's) and put one or two others on life support.

Terrible leadership closed those companies down. The Nox had nothing to do with it. Look at the prices some are still willing to pay for Tesoro detectors. 

16 minutes ago, palzynski said:

Not ahead of the game in terms of lightness . A Rutus Atrex weights 1,6kg from what I have read in this forum . This is more than twice a Deus ( 750/800g with the CB in the pocket ). More than an Apex at 1.2kg.

It is a pity because I like the Atrex audio even I ve never used one . If they want to sell more detectors they should pay attention to this ergonomy aspect and lighten their machines .

Weight is something that could be easily corrected. Would like to see an American company purchase them.

11 hours ago, phrunt said:

I think Chase is right, the Legend if it works as well as they say it will obsoletes the other Nokta detectors, except possibly their specialty gold detectors although it might as the Equinox is VERY competitive with any single frequency VLF specialist gold detector on the market and often has features that puts it ahead of them like notching out hot rocks target ID numbers and even recovery speed adjustment.

I think the Gold Finder 2000 which is even more of a duplicate of the Gold Monster 1000 than the Legend is to the Nox was a massive flop, I'm not seeing or hearing of anyone using it and I've been told by a very trusted source who has one that it's not near as good as the competition other than of course build quality which Nokta excels at.

The Simplex will eventually be replaced with a Simplex MF unit, it has to or it won't keep up as other manufacturers are also making multi frequency detectors their entry level machines too. 

It's very short sighted to think Multi frequency isn't going to obsolete single frequency detectors, of course it's not instant where the Nox comes out and all other single frequency machines self destruct, it takes time however in the coming years I would be surprised to see manufacturers releasing new single frequency machines and that's what I believe Minelab meant by it obsoletes the single frequency machines, it does...   It's already put to rest Minelab making anymore single frequency machines.  Other manufacturers are scrambling to stay in the game now by making their versions of multi frequency, those that don't or have little success doing so will no longer be relevant, they'll join Fisher.

Fisher has a great example of a single frequency machine that's stood the test of time, the Gold Bug 2...  it doesn't mean it's selling like hot cakes though, it's now a niche machine that's now become very niche with multi frequency machines replacing most peoples need of having a GB2.  Yes, people will continue to use it, but nowhere near as many that used it in the past. 

IMO, the Rutus Atrex is ahead of the game.  The ability to change software in the field via an app is Star Trek esque. It broadens a hunter's options. Too bad they aren't in the US. I really wish they had larger financial support. Atrex in a waterproof housing would be a huge success, I think.

10 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Perhaps obsolete was a poor choice of words by ML - I think the more accurate term is relevancy - or more to the point, the irrelevancy of high priced, single-frequency detectors. 

Now this right here, I agree with 100%. They changed the cost game and if the legend is as good as expected, NM will have changed the cost game again as well. There was no reason for some models to cost 1100 or 1200 dollars.

Very solid post, full of fair and valid points. There will be however, a large portion of detectorist who prefer SF over SMF. For certain applications I still prefer two of my SF detectors over my Nox. I have fantastic soil. On my 75 rarely does the fe meter hit 1 bar.

I am looking forward to the new offerings from Deus and NM. I find it interesting that Deus is able to kind of snub their nose at the other companies regarding cost. Which proves there will always be a McLaren over Corvette crowd though neither are exactly slow. 

22 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

Cherry-picking may work well in metal detecting but cherry-picking your definition to support your point while ignoring other definitions doesn't.

Many words have multiple meanings or at least variations which share some of the principles with others yet have their own subtle or not so subtle differences.

I see you are new here.  It might be appropriate for you to search back through the last four years of posts.  (Googling 'detectorprospector.com' and the word 'obsolete' will probably find the threads I've referred to.)  This isn't your typical social media site....

There is no initiation program for new members here but a bit of discretion and humility is always a good idea, at least until you've established yourself as someone worth paying attention to.

The definition hasn't changed and ML failed with their claim, which also hasn't changed. Nothing has been obsoleted. If you can prove they've obsoleted other detectors besides their own X-Terra and Go Find line, I may give your conclusion some consideration.  

2 minutes ago, phrunt said:

obsolete

adjective

uk 

not in use any more, having been replaced by something newer and better or more fashionable:

 

Seems to fit for me.

not in use any more, Appreciate you validating my point. 

Replaced: They replaced their own line of detectors but NOT everyone else's detectors.

Better: In some applications but not all. See Deus.

Fashionable: I mean yea you can color accent your Nox now. That's cool, I guess.

2 hours ago, phrunt said:

I think they did make single frequency detectors obsolete, sure companies are still making and selling them because they have to, they don't have a range of multi frequency detectors to sell, we're at the cross over point now and it takes time.

 

SF detectors will never be obsolete in your lifetime. Deus is a single frequency detector. People are chompin at the bit to get a used one, once the fire sale begins. Forums represent a minute number of people who detect. Seasoned detectorist have detectors they will never part with because they may be good at doing just one thing. That one thing is enough to keep the detector where as an SMF might not work so well for them in that one application. So no. Minelab hasn't obsoleted anything. It was an arrogant claim. FTR, I have a Nox and use it for one specific application.

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

We've been through this at least a couple times in the neary 4 years since the ML Equinox was released.  (And actually they started that 'obsolete' claim at Detectival in September 2017, I think.)  You may want to dig deeper into the definition of 'obsolete' before getting too adamant.

Arrogant?  IMO, yes.  Pompous, no.  (The difference.)  Time will tell which, if either of these adjectives applies to recent claims by other manufacturers.

18 hours ago, UT Dave said:

Indeed.  Business has always been a contact sport.  Perhaps more brutal today than ever before.  Social media has added so many new dimensions, many of which, are not particularly useful or appreciated by customers.

The availability of well done tech media is one dimension that we can all appreciate though.  As mentioned, I'm not going to pay much attention to anything else about the Legend for now, myself.  I want docs, manuals, white papers, video of OS nuts and bolts.

I like to root for the companies who's true north is delivering more value, quicker, and with better outcomes for their customers.  They deliver on that, I kind of don't care who's feelers they hurt or which competitors were forced to live in smaller houses in the process.  Those companies don't always win though.

At the price and feature set of the Legend, if it performs, it has the potential to actually grow this market - a rising tide lifting all boats and all that.  But it also has the potential to rip a hearty chunk out of the existing market - a necessity for growth in a market that is relatively stagnant in size.  

- DAA

THIS !! All the people boo hooing will be in line to get one at that price point. It will also force the hand of ML with their price structure. ML raised their price on the 800 and NM absolutely crushed that price point. The Legend doesn't have to be better, just equal to turn the fortunes in their favor. ML and their arrogant "obsolete" charge is foolish. Obsolete by definition means no longer produced or used. Many detectorist and their single frequency machines are still out there making great finds and having fun. Furthermore, single frequency detectors are still being made and sold. NM build quality is far and away superior to the Nox detectors.