Monte
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Posts posted by Monte
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oor?
I coined the term 'OOR' about fifteen years ago when Tesoro Electronics came out with the 8X9 Concentric to replace models that had been using a round 8" Concentric. The 8X9 wasn't a pronounced 'elliptical' shape, just kind of an 'Out-of-Round' shape ... 'OOR.'
I used this term occasionally in discussions more in Tesoro groups, but it didn't really catch on with others until I started using the Nokta FORS CoRe last January and Makro Racer in February. Both of those 'brands' came on the market very impressively and I used the term 'OOR' to refer to their small 4.7X5.2 Out-Of-Round DD coil. Rather than always type the decimal measured coils size, it was/is much easier to refer to those coils simply as an 'OOR' coil, and I still refer to the Tesoro 8X9 the same way in discussing that brand and coil.
Just one of several terms I have coined since the seventies for test scenarios, search techniques, or setting maneuvers, such as 'Quick-Out' and 'EPR' (for Edge-Pass Rejection) to help audibly and visually classify probable ferrous trash. I started using 'EPR' in the '70s because it worked well even with the old TR's I used, and later 'Quick-Out' by '82 when we started getting slow-motion/quick-response VLF Disc. models.
'NBPT' (for my Nail Board Performance Test) which is an actual, in-the-field encounter of four iron nails surrounding a US Indian Head 1¢ coin in a very iron nail infested ghost town where the school used to be.
Another I've used an instructed in seminars since 1981 is 'Power Balance' which is a technique to manually Ground Balance for the Discriminate mode (in models that provide that functional ability) so as to have the best ground-handling performance in the Discriminate mode.
The result can be less falsing from a too-negative GB, but more importantly, perhaps, is to retain the best responsiveness from some high-conductive targets like a US Silver Dollar or even Half-Dollar, or a small sample of a possible lost or hidden 'poke' of silver coins.
For example, I have 5 US silver Walking Liberty Half-Dollars stacked on top of a silver Peace Dollar, and these six coins are together in a plastic container. It represents a possible lost or hidden cloth or leather bag, or glass container, of a few high-conductive coins without any other metal, ferrous or non-ferrous, involved. You might be surprised how many detectors have very poor performance on this sample, and even more surprising how many are basically non-responsive!
So now if you or other readers should encounter these terms I have coined and used over the past four-and-a-half decades, you might know the source and meaning, just like I am now up on what 'Zed' means. Thanks!
Monte
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On 12/15/2015 at 0:13 AM, sjmpainter said:
Interesting both you and Steve recommend the small coil. I was actually looking for coil info and what is compatible with the F19.
I have been looking at the NEL Snake coil 3x6 dd. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
I have, years ago, owned some after-market search coils. I have friends who have tried them, and in my seminars I often get to work with those participants have. Personally, I am not a big fan of most after-market search coils, preferring to use those made by the detector manufacturer that fit the task at hand.
I have my 5" DD coil from an early version Teknetics Omega 8000 that I keep around, and I used it on the two Fisher F19's I had a year ago. My suggestion would be to get one of those and, as with any detector and coil change, put in ample time to learn it to benefit from it.
I know some people question smaller coils as it seems a very popular trend the past decade or two for people to want a bigger coil to go deeper. The thought of any smaller-size seems scary to those who haven't worked a good dinky coil on a good detector. I keep this particular 5" DD coil on-hand partly for memory sake of how it performed for me.
On June 22nd of 2010 I fell off a ladder. Fractured skull, two cracked vertebrae in my neck, severe concussion, ruptured right ear drum, broke ribs 5, 6, 7 and 8 on the right side. I spent two months on-the-mend only able to tinker with some air tests, clean coins and targets, and do some research. The last of August I was determined to get out detecting to start to move around as the healing improved and pain decreased, but I couldn't deal with much weight, so I grabbed the Omega 8000 and switched to the 5" DD to set out on September 1st.
I have mobility issues anyway that slow me down, and I still had to stay on more even ground so working my preferred old sites was out. I just hit parks and schools, but I ended that September with 895 coins, 2 gold rings and several sterling silver jewelry items ... all using that little 5" DD coil.
I have 6" Concentric coils on my Tesoro's, the 4.7X5.2 'OOR' coils on the FORS CoRe and Racer, and the 5" DD for the Gold +. So, based on my personal preferences and past successful experiences, I think you ought to take a look at the 5" DD from FTP.
Monte
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On 12/14/2015 at 7:50 PM, sjmpainter said:
Steve, I bought the F19 thinking I could hunt around Anchorage for silver coins. Did you have any luck in that area?
Interestingly, I found four rings, two necklaces, several ear rings and pendants, few hundred in clad and lots of cash.
And not one silver coin. Not sure if I should be disappointed by that?
I've only been to Anchorage twice on flight lay-overs about 48 years ago, in late November, and never had an opportunity to do any detecting. If I were to venture there today, with my modern and very efficient detectors, I might give it a shot (weather permitting), but I can assure you that even hoping for some silver coinage, I would definitely not be anticipating it.
As Steve mentioned, the location lacks a sufficient period of activity for there to be much old silver coinage lost, and as one of the early adventurers in this great sport (started in March of '65) I will assure you that there USED TO BE a lot of older coins lost, and with a smile on my face as I pause to reflect back on the "good old early days" of detecting, I know for a fact that many coins were recovered by the adventurous back then.
For the last twenty to twenty-five years I only hunt very old parks, or very old and likely untouched out-of the-way fringe areas of parks, to try and find silver and other older keepers. Instead, I have concentrated on renovation sites, vacant lots and private property in urban environments.
The other exceptions are tot-lot playgrounds at parks and schools because they are easy and quick to work, and in larger, more populated cities I have averaged 12 gold rings per year, plus other gold and silver jewelry. I also hit sports fields, when in the mood, because some have a better history of gold and silver jewelry loss.
The bulk of my detecting is at non-urban locations, such as ghost towns, RR depots and stage stops, old encampments. logging or mining towns, and other places more likely to have .... OLDER COINS and other forms of excitement.
Let me also add my personal opinion which also is one Steve mentioned, and that is to rely on a smaller-than-stock search coil (such as the 5" DD presuming you're using the stock 5X10 DD on the F19) because you'll have an improved opportunity to find coins and other non-ferrous targets that have been/still are masked by nearby ferrous junk.
Also, be sure to use the least amount of Discrimination you can tolerate to help curtail masking. Also, if you are serious about looking for old silver coins, and in an area where you might search an old mining or logging camp, hunting or fishing lodge/camp, or other out-of-the-way location where folks were far from a bank, keep in mind that it is very possible to luck across a small cache or a 'poke' of hidden coins.
Sometimes they were in a small leather coin purse (yea, guys carried those in their pockets) or a small leather bag, so you might want to check your detector, coils, and settings using a similar test scenario. I've used such 'test samples' for a few decades, especially the past dozen or so with all of the newer digital-designed (and 'programmed/preset') detectors.
My current 'evaluation sample' is short two silver half dollars I donated to a club for prizes, so it now consists of 5-Walking Liberty Half-Dollars stacked on top of a 1922 Peace Dollar. I have used this to see how many makes and models 'pass' or 'flunk' the detection ability test. I've thinned out quite a few detectors the past two years that I have evaluated.
This is comparable to a small 'poke' of silver coins that could have been lost or hidden. and I can't tell you how many modern detectors struggle to give a decent response (audio as well as a lock-on TID) to this test scenario. That's why I like to have a small but functional set of detectors in my carry arsenal that complement each other. It's also a great example of why I do not rely on only a visual display or audio response from a direct-sweep of an encountered target in such sites.
Today, my four primary-use detectors are a Nokta FORS CoRe and FORS Gold +, and a Tesoro Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX, each equipped with the main-use search coil I like on them, but I do carry accessory coils for each of my FORS units.
Anyway, I am sure Steve left a few silvers hidden here or there and I wish you the best of success in your searches ... as long as huntable weather holds out.
Monte
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.... but using the prototype Gold Racers it was more obvious. The angle has been softened considerably and the grip has also been changed. It feels a lot better to my hand now but I have smaller hands. S rods people like or dislike and nothing fits all hands perfectly, but this is a definite improvement in my opinion.
I am one of those who didn't like the original Racer grip angle, but it was more noticeable when using the 5½X10 DD or 7X11 DD coils. I favored the 4.7X5.2 'OOR' coil most of the time on the Racer, using the Nokta FORS CoRe w/stock 7X11 DD for more open territory searches, and with the smaller coil it's not as uncomfortable.. I agree with the new Makro Gold Racer grip angle as being an improvement, and I think the majority of users will prefer it.
Monte
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Dear Valued Members:
The Gold Racer is now available for pre-order.
We will start shipping dealers early January in the same order the orders are received.
A 'Thank You' to the Nokta/Makro folks. This ought to be a gleam of enthusiasm to surpass the gleam off a wet and shiny 11 ounce nugget!
I think between relic hunting old sites and working in more time for gold
hunting, I'll be spending more time away from home in 2016, guaranteed.Monte
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In Gold Mining Towns or larger active Camps, like other active habitations, I do luck onto some occasional older coins and trade tokens, along with a few interesting 'keepers.' However, so far I haven't been too excited about man-made finds from the Gold Prospecting areas I have hunted.
Working some old RR ghost towns, homesteads, and dug up areas behind old general stores, however, has produced gold for me. One was a 1913 $2½ gold coin, and another was a rather large-size gold bridge that held only one tooth. That one a friend search right over in her earlier days of detecting when she used too much Discrimination.
Maybe 2016 will bring me some surprises when I head out to some1860's/70's gold prospecting areas? I could sure use a change.
Monte
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Steve,
I definitely agree on the XLT comments. It is one of my all-time favorite White's detectors for Coin Hunting. It actually had a few adjustment functions it didn't need and could have been 'simplified' and still been a top-end performer. A proven operating frequency and very good product advancement for that era.
And you're also correct that the Signagraph was also very functional. I prefer it to most of what White's offers on their upper-end models today. Finding a clean, proper working XLT can make a very good companion model to anyone's detector arsenal, if they want a good urban Coin Hunting model.
Monte
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These are the kinds of questions I get most often, by mail, phone, in person and when doing seminars. Steve's provided very good basic answers because while many makes and models might work okay for "Coin Hunting," it really boils down to the individual, their types of sites selected, and patience level to put in adequate time to learn the detector and coils they have.
And, as a very avid detectorist, I do encourage anyone who takes this sport serious to own at least two, and possibly three (or more), different types of detectors to complement each other. Also, to make sure they own and use the best search coil for the task at hand.
You know, I would like to know more about coin machines(park hunters). What makes the good ones good, and what makes the great ones great.
Urban 'park hunters' who concentrate on typically grassy, manicured sites, definitely need to do their best to master their target recovery techniques. For maintained sites, this is equally as important as learning how to hunt the coins up in the first place.
I would guess than in my fifty-one years of detecting parks, schools, private yards and other grassy places, 90% or more of my targets have been recovered using a screwdriver with a rounded-off tip. Most coins and other lost and discarded items are within the upper 4" so it can be done more quickly and with less time spent and a messy appearance from 'plugging' the target spot.
After that it is also important to find a detector and coil combination that works best for you and the types of sites searched. Then it is a mater of whether a person wants to find most desirable targets at a location, or use a more selective approach to employ visual and audio TID features and limit their recoveries to only the most likely-to-be targets signals.
As Steve suggested, there are many makes and models that can get the job done when it comes to finding 'coins.' As we use them and learn them, we can discover that some seem to be a better 'fit' for what we want and need, or maybe they provide a little better end result than others, and that let's us make our personal decision.
I know that for over five decades now, I have owned and used a lot of detectors that can find coins, and along the way I let some go when I have too many hanging around, or when I notice I seem to prefer one or two far more often than many others. It doesn't mean I get rid of detectors than can't find coins, although some are less spectacular than others, it means I just find more pleasure in the features and performance of something different.
I gave up "park hunting" many years ago, but when I used to work grassier areas a lot, some models I favored were the White's XLT and XL Pro, the newer MXT Pro and Teknetics Omega 8000 a bit towards the end of my 'park era,' and several favorite Tesoro models, such as the Bandido, Bandido II, Bandido microMAX and Silver Sabre microMAX. I did use others, but these were the primary units during the '90s and into about 2011.
As for what made some models 'good' and some models 'great' for me, was how they felt, how they worked, the search coils available, and the results I had and enjoyed. I like to enjoy the sport, find stuff, and have fun.
let me make my question more specific, I'm up in gold country often, highbanking , I am also slowly learning to md for nuggets. I have done some research, I know of an area that was a gathering spot for miners during the glory days. I have a gmt,(thanks to info from your site)(many thanks for that), what detector would you swing in that situation, searching for coins from that era, and maybe relics?
Being "up in gold country" and "often high-banking," and slowly "learning to metal detect for nuggets" has little to do with your Coin Hunting detector selection, unless you wanted a multi-purpose detector that can effectively be used to chase gold nuggets as well as search for coins.
The fact that you "have done the research" is good because you found "gathering spots for miners during the glory days," and it is very good to get involved in doing research. Research should help you learn the era, when a location was active, learn what type and amount of activity there was, the population or transient population and business activity, and the general size and placement of any dwellings, businesses, churches and schools, etc.
I hunted my first ghost town on May 4th of 1969 and obviously remember the experience well as I learned a lot that day and even more since then. If I'm stuck in an urban environment, I prefer to look for renovation work, old older neighborhood vacant lots, building tear-down sites, etc., because I am mainly after silver and other older coins. I also work heavy use playgrounds where I have averaged twelve gold rings a year, plus other gold and silver jewelry, for the past quarter century.
But if I am not limited to 'city shooting' available locations, I have headed out to hunt any older-use site. Ghost towns, logging and mining camps, pioneer and military encampments, homesteads, and all sorts of other places man has occupied for a while. And one thing I learned in early May of '69 was iron, especially nails, can be one of the biggest challenges we can face.
So, if you plan to seek older-use locations, in search of silver coins, the rare gold coins, and all sorts of early mintage coinage, then I believe you need to select a detector(s) and smaller-size search coil(s) that will help provide you with the best overall performance when dealing with a lot of iron trash. Oh there will be an ample supply of non-ferrous debris to hear and recover as well, but it is the nails and other ferrous junk that can cause you more grief and good-target masking.
Finally, if you are implying you want a detector to "do-it-all" and also work reasonably well should you also encounter a gold nugget at such a trashy site, or just extend your coin search off into some gold nugget potential areas, then you have to be a bit more selective in what detectors and coils you will consider.
The MXT Pro, in my opinion, is probably the best all-purpose detector in current White's offerings. I have used it with success for old coin hunting as well as some nugget hunting, and almost all of that was with the 6½" Concentric search coil. About on par with the MXT Pro for old-site/old-coin searches I used the Teknetics Omega 8000 w/5" DD coil.
There are other makes and models you can consider from Teknetics, Fisher, Garrett, White's, Tesoro and other makers foreign to the USA, I have my own assortment of favorite detectors that I use for 'Coin Hunting' in urban settings, but when I am away from tot-lots and manicured lawns, I shift my think-mode to 'Relic Hunting' techniques.
In short, that means I use a detector and coil combination best suited for the location, and with settings that allow me to hear any-and-all non-ferrous targets, and never use a Discrimination level higher than just enough to reject a common iron nail. With some models I set the Discrimination low enough to hear most iron present, but rely on the Tone ID feature to let me listen for any possible non-ferrous target close to iron junk that might be partially masked.
There are many makes and models out there to choose from and we should all try them out, if possible, to learn them and know what works well for use and out needs. My current 'working arsenal' might serve as an example, not as a suggestion to use what I use, but an example of what might work for you.
From oldest offering to newest it includes these: A Tesoro Bandido II, Bandido II microMAX and Silver Sabre microMAX that each has their own 6" Concentric coil mounted. A Teknetics T2 'Classic' w/5" DD mounted and the stock 11" BiAxial (DD) coil along should I need a bigger coil for an open, sparse-target area. Nokta FORS Coin & Relic w/4.7X5.2 DD 'OOR' (Out-Of-Round) mounted more the majority of my searches and a 7X11 DD for the occasional open area needs. Makro Racer w/'OOR' coil mounted as the only coil I enjoy on this model for the sites I use it.
Best of success to you in hunting any of these older locations you are researching. Be patient, be methodical, keep the Discrimination low and use a slow sweep in and amongst the trash. You'll recover a lot of targets, some desired, some interesting, and some junk. All the while, be alert to learning more about your detectors and search techniques.
Monte
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On 11/23/2015 at 5:51 PM, Steve Herschbach said:
Masking is not my problem with the CTX, it is lack of depth on a clear target in the open. Single frequency just packs more punch in my ground, and all the hours in the world won't change that.
To readers and especially Dilek, note Steve's post that I called attention to in color above because that is exactly what I have found, those are my personal preferences, as I have explained in a letter.
Like Steve, I have no problem if someone likes a CTX 3030 or an Ace 250, a Delta or Cortés because if THEY like it and feels it provides a performance level they like or that's in their budget, fine.
For my wants and needs, they fall way short so those won't be in my personal battery. Yes, I have owned and/or used them just to get to learn and understand them, but there are certain levels of standards I have in the way of weight, balance, and especially in-the-field performance, that they just don't meet.
I use terms, like Steve, to lump people into one of two groups of metal detector users. They either fit the group of 'Traditional Coin Hunters' which is more of what Steve leveled many models from USA manufacturers at. The folks who like to use a lot of Discrimination, often employ Notch Disc., and they try to very selectively reject a lot of trash and limit their target recoveries to targets most-likely-to-be a coin. Generally they ignore targets with an 'iffy' audio response or a visual TID or numeric VDI read-out that is not a 'lock-on' response.
The other group is simply the 'Avid Detectorist' which includes those who put in more time and effort to learn their detectors, to master the settings for improved in-the-field performance, and they are more attentive to the search coils selected for the task at hand and work in a more methodical manner to best cover a dedicated site. Generally they use no more Discrimination that just barely enough to reject a common iron nail, and quite often (with the right detector design and performance settings) will hunt a site while accepting iron and rely on a quality-designed audio response to help identify problem ferrous trash.
I have acquaintances who use V3i's and CTX-3030's and the like, but only a few of them I consider 'hunting buddies' and they also happen to have different detectors like I use when they work the very iron infested Relic Hunting sites I enjoy working. I noted several years ago that some of the newer 'Gold Nugget' and 'Relic Hunting' models worked better for my personal needs and site choices than the 'popular' Coin Hunting detectors that are so fashionable.
I used the Gold Bug Pro and especially the G2, and even put in some time with the F19 but while they work better, in some ways, than general Coin Hunting models, there's only one USA manufacturer's modern detector I keep in my arsenal, and that's the Teknetics T2. I favor it over the F75's I had, and with the round 5" DD coil it is a very impressive performer. Surprising depth and ability to pull non-ferrous targets out of iron littered sites.
However, the Nokta FORS and Makro Racer performance with their 'OOR' coil still seems to handle the overly abundant iron littered Relic Hunting sites I work a bit better. They are the closest in performance for that task to my favorite Tesoro models, and have set a standard that I don't see other detector makers (referring to US makers) coming close to anytime soon.
I'm happy there are detectors others enjoy, but more concerned about the models I have and use because, for me, I feel they are better for my needs.
Monte
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I was happy to have a new toy arrive today, the Fors Gold+!
Hopefully I will have some time next week and give it a whirl.
I trust you have some huntable-weather sites lined up. 'Thank You' for the post and looking forward to your updates from the field. Two days ago it snowed where I was planning to head next week for some nugget shooting and relic hunting here in Eastern Oregon.
I might be forced to plan a winter trip southward now. Best of success to you.
Monte
Detecting Silver Coins In Anchorage, Alaska
in Metal Detecting For Coins & Relics
Posted
I've had my 5" DD 'Greek-series' coil for six years this coming March, and I have used it for urban coin hunting, a lot of relic hunting in old town sites and such, and even some water work in streams and I have never had a problem with it in any way.
The 5" DD Teknetics/Fisher search coil is just a fraction under 5" and it has worked for me in confined spaces. I've never used that smaller-size NEL coil.
Yes, I definitely think you should give the 5" DD coil a fair chance to prove itself. In a Threshold-based All Metal mode you shouldn't have a concern, but if hunting in a silent-search Discriminate more, I suggest you make sure of the allowable sweep speed for the environment you're hunting. If it has a lot of rocks, black sand, or iron trash, a slower, more methodical sweep speed might prove much better than a fast-motion sweep speed.
Best of success with it.
Monte