Daniel Tn

Yes the bashing is horrid on the Facebook groups.  I answered a question last night regarding the D2 and Manticore.  All I said was that IMO, the two compliment one another but if I had to choose only one, it would be the D2.  The amount of hate that comment brought on was astonishing.

I've never found the selectable single frequency machines to be the equivalent to a straight forward single frequency machine of the same kHz.  For example, 12 or 15 kHz on the Manticore, Nox, etc falls way short of the 13 kHz Fisher F75 and Whites MXT.  The first thought is: they should be similar. But I much prefer straight forward single freq machines vs selectable freq.  I've never ran into a situation or place when using a SMF machine, where the selectable single freq does better than Multi on the same machine.  I played with it some this morning on the D2 and Manticore.  On both machines, multi freq ruled.

Woo hoo!  I may have tracked down a 11x13 coil for the Deus 2.  Hopefully can get it by this coming weekend and go really give it a workout.  I'm off tomorrow and would like to go dig but...I've also not caught a fish since January so I can decide between fishing and digging.  Or try to squeeze both in.

I have a pair of the Threshers for the Manticore.  No complaints. Volume is plenty and sound is good.  I will probably get a set for the Deus 2 as I hate the bone phones.

It seems like a good time to tell the Brandy Rock Farm story. By now, most people that relic hunt and have been on the internet for a while, know that Brandy Rock Farm in Culpeper, VA is legendary. Used extensively by Confederate and Union troops, and housed thousands of dug in troops for the winter camps, and also saw action during the Battle of Brandy Station.  When organized relic hunts were first beginning, the Farm was selected as a site to be surveyed by the hunt committee from Texas.  Locals knew how epic it would be if they could get a hunt there...but the committee of Texas "experts" that did the site survey on it, came in there with only knowledge of hunting sandy non mineralized soil, with Tesoro machines.  They passed right through the fields and hills that would later be infamous and nicknamed for the relics they produced....and didn't dig anything.  Why?  Mineralized ground and detectors that were reading everything in the ground as iron...coupled with inexperience to mineralized ground.  They passed on the site.  Later down the road, Diggin' in VA would hold numerous hunts on that farm. Including several I was a part of...and hundreds of thousands of bullets were found, probably well over 100 belt plates, thousands of buttons, artillery shells, bottles, etc from surface hunting and huts.  Even after as many times as it has been hunted now, I could still go back there and find display cases full of relics.  I dug 3 belt plates there and all 3 were iron signals in the ground.  I've experienced minie balls that would still read as iron in the dirt clumps/piles after digging them.  In fact, when the pulse machines started catching on, one of the things we noticed was the amount of good relics that were in other people's dig holes and such.  They had dug them and the signal disappeared so they left it for trash or simply couldn't locate it again.  One of the plates I dug, was in somebody's dig hole that they gave up on.  It always throws people for a twist that have never hunted in soil like that.  Especially when their favorite machines "back home" all of a sudden won't produce signals and people are coming behind where you just hunted, and digging all kinds of stuff.  A Minelab Explorer/CTX will just null out as soon as the coil gets within a foot of the ground.  

Rick -- Nobody can answer that question for ya bud.  You're curious about em though or you wouldn't be in here reading haha.  For me, that's all I need to push me to buy and try....I am curious and always have to see for myself because I've learned what works for somebody else, might not work great for me.  By comparison...I've had several Tejons over the years. I revisited one not too long ago actually, and tested the 8x11 DD coil for it.  In my soil here, a "hot" Tejon with stock 9x8 concentric coil will get ya about 3-4 inches tops on something like a Civil War bullet.  It did seem to hit buttons better though. With the DD coil, it made it about another inch better on bullets.  If you ran it with the disc on the F in Foil, you'd walk over so much stuff and all you'd hear is the occasional pop from the disc circuit.  In fact...the very site this thread is about, was found by me when I had first got the Tejon.  I walked through the 30 acres doing zig zag patterns and never found a bullet or anything.  The landowner told me of a rock wall in the woods so I went to check it out before I left and found a few shallow 3 ringers in the woods. Came back with the Shadow X5 and started popping more bullets in the woods. For the longest time I thought there were only bullets in the woods and none in the fields.  Ohhh they were there...by the hundreds.  I just hadn't learned that I was walking over them.  Those pops and clicks I was thinking was iron...were bullets.  

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33 minutes ago, Rick N. MI said:

Do you have any reason to keep the Manticore when you have the Deus 2? It just seems Minelab didn't get the Manticore quite right. I doubt they will change things on the Manticore.

That's a good question.  Neither one are perfect but each one has things I like about them vs the other...BUT neither one has that edge that makes it a TKO over the other.  If I had to pick one to sell today it would be the Manticore but that's because I could sell it fast and get more for it vs the Deus 2 due to the availability of them. I could always get another one when they become more available down the road. I've actually been thinking on doing just that. I've got a big week long trout fishing trip coming up in a few weeks in Arkansas and extra $ wouldn't be a bad idea. *hint hint for those looking for a Manicore*.  

Yep, that's what I meant by you'd have to run an open screen to hear them.  There's a lot to unbox with the Manticore settings for customization.  They made most everything simple and straightforward for people that like turn on and hunt but with enough room for tweakers too.  So yes it is possible to open that area up...but at the same time you're gonna let in iron too that falls in that block.  

17 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Dan - did you see my question whether the Minies were showing up OFF/above the 2D centerline such that they were being masked by the ferrous limits?  Was that the case?

The shallow ones were on the center line and painted an egg shaped dot.  The deeper ones were NOT on the center line.  Here's a couple screen grabs of some videos I did while going over a deeper one and a shallow one. You can see the blob up there in the upper ferrous zone on the deep one. The shallow ones that read good will be directly below that, on the center line.  

I'm wanting one of those 11x13 coils pretty bad!

20 minutes ago, BigSkyGuy said:

Daniel,

Getting back to MC vs D2. Not sure if you saw my earlier post, but did you try lowering the sensitivity on the MC? Thank you!

Yeah, but I was confused about you saying a Sens of 29.  I never had it that high.  I started out with it at 25.  This place is similar to how it is in Culpeper, VA in that the fields are extremely mineralized but the woods are not as bad.  In the woods I could run 22-25 sensitivity. In the field, I was getting too much mineral blow back so I dropped it into the teens to get rid of that.  

I thought the Axiom was basically the GPX in a waterproof housing?  

Speaking of weight...I just recently re-acquired the first target ID machine I ever owned. The Fisher CZ-70.  Back when it was first introduced, it was cutting edge. I've not had one in over 2 decades now. I put the 10.5 coil on it...and you want to talk heavy and unbalanced?  Wow. That joker is a wrist strainer.  I fired it up and went outside. Ground balanced it and it will only beep on 1 target in my test garden.  1 out of 7 targets. *Most* all the newer machines will get them all.  

I agree though...I'd love to have Deus 2 performance and adjustability, with a Minelab menu and screen. And Minelab's coil attachment area.  I didn't buy the Deus for the wireless stuff; I bought it for the outstanding reputation for hunting iron and the newest SMF technology for hunting beaches.  For the record, I wasn't a big fan of the Deus 1. It was mostly an audio thing for me. If the D2 wouldn't have offered the Square tone audio option, I probably wouldn't have bought one.  As odd as that probably is.  

17 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Reading your account of this accidental head to head hunt made me wonder a few things.

So, when I am hunting for small sub gram nuggets in 4 to 5 bar F75 dirt with Deus 1/ORX Goldfield or with an Equinox using Gold 1 or Gold 2, I am setup wide open, all targets accepted, 1 tone VCO audio and reactivity somewhere in the middle like 2.5 on Deus and 5 on the Equinox so I can get less of a look at the ground and more of a look at tiny ferrous and non ferrous targets in the surface to 4" or so depth range. Most of these gold targets will read like they are mostly iron unless they are on or near the surface.

You instead, are hunting for 3/4 to to 1 ounce targets at 4" or deeper in 4 to 5 bar F75 dirt. 

I don't know much about the Manticore at all. I just look at the features and the default settings in the manual. I know plenty about Deus 2, especially its Relic and Goldfield modes.

Manticore All Terrain General default disc pattern is +5 to 99 with the entire iron target range and the borderline ferrous/non ferrous IDs 0 to 4 rejected, 5 tone Normal audio and recovery speed 5.  If I used those settings at my 4 to 5 bar F75 gold prospecting sites I would not hear a peep on sub gram gold or anything else unless it was big and near the surface.

Deus 2 Relic mode even with disc set at 4 (still have 4 to 25 which are all iron IDs and the borderline ferrous non ferrous IDs 25 to 30 accepted) is already a big improvement over Manticore's All Terrain General defaults, and reactivity is 1, audio response 5 and audio is one tone VCO. With those settings, I would hear larger targets easily at my 4 to 5 bar F75 gold prospecting sites and might even hear one gram to multi gram nuggets. Bullets for sure would be easy to detect unless they were way deeper than 4 to 6".

I did a little testing using some target free dirt that shows 10 of 12 bars on Deus 2 so really bad dirt iron wise. 

Deus 2, 9" coil in default Relic mode and Equinox 900, 10X5" Coiltek coil in Field 2, all targets accepted, depth tone audio (2 tone VCO) and recovery speed 2 had almost identical results on a 3/4 ounce Maxi Ball at 7" depth. There were plenty of 4 way iron audio and target ID responses with intermittent non ferrous audio responses with jumpy target IDs between 50 and 99. When I bumped up Equinox Field 2's recovery speed to 5, the audio was much weaker, really choppy and sporadic. Equinox 900 in Gold 1 with all targets accepted, 1 tone VCO audio and recovery speed 2 or 3 had similar results to Deus 2 default Relic mode.

I also tried Deus 2 in default General and got next to nothing over the Maxi Ball until I opened up the discrimination pattern to add all of the iron target IDs and lowered reactivity to 1.

I hope you will try the Manticore again at that site with settings that are more similar to Deus 2 Relic mode just to see if there is any hope of improvement.

I never had many good results with a CTX 3030 at highly iron mineralized sites. Maybe I was just not adept at using it correctly. Anyway, I have had very little interest in the Manticore based on my CTX experiences, so I am definitely not being an apologist for Minelab's Manticore by writing all this. I am very happy with my Deus 2 and my Equinox 800 and 900. 

Don't think I kept either detector in one mode without trying other settings or search modes.  After all, it is a giant 160 year old test garden. That's where I like to go to learn. 

In the Goldfield mode, the audio is different but the default ferrous upper limit is 6. The bullets want to come in at the upper ferrous zone. If you run All Terrain General, the default upper ferrous limit is 9.  The bullets want to come in at what would be the 7-8 upper ferrous range.  You can open that up and hear them but your also opening up all the iron that falls within that range too.  On the D2 I used Relic mode as a starter program but then figured out General mode was just as good. I was more impressed with the ID than anything without having to do any elaborate setting changes.

5 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

You just nicely summed up Daniel why most serious gold nugget prospectors have a PI. I agree on the F75 all metal also by the way - best all metal VLF mode I have ever used. If a person wants an alternative to PI at a low price and super ergonomic, they need look no farther than using a F75 in all metal mode. It won't handle hot rocks like a PI though so beware that.

Few people have ever disputed that the Deus is the better dense trash hunter compared to Equinox, and looks like the Manticore vs Deus 2 story is playing out the same. Which kind of sucks for me as I'm not a fan of the XP system in general when it comes to menus and wireless coils. I prefer the Minelab wired coils and menu setup. Don't try to convince me otherwise - everyone has preferences and those are mine. But when it comes to performance and audio the XP and I get along just fine, and end of the day that's the way I swing.

I agree!  I'm actually not a fan of the wireless stuff. If the Deus 2 had the menu and screen layout of the Manticore, along with a wired coil, I'd be one happy dude and have just 1 machine and no real need for anything else.

55 minutes ago, JCR said:

Thanks for the detailed reply. I appreciate hearing from someone that is experienced with similar hot dirt conditions like I have.  I have done the same thing using the Tarsacci to find the targets for testing the settings on the Legend. It has really helped to fine tune what works best.    Did you do better with the new coil & Dimitar's settings?   Was that the New Zealand bad dirt coil Keith Southern has referred to?

That was actually the coil Dimitar sent to us to try. No, it did not seem to help any.  In disc mode there were too many high pinging false signals. The only way to really hunt with it was to use the Mix mode audio and listen for the all metal "ramp up" sound to a target.  The Deus 1 was horrible at this place which is why I really was surprised at the Deus 2.  The best VLF machine for it though is still the F75/T2 with aftermarket coil.  A coil like the 13" Ultimate and those machines in Motion All Metal is probably the deepest I've had there for a VLF.  You can't go by ID though...you have to just hunt by audio and dig a lot of iron. The trick to it was that 90° turn in which you could pass up most nails and wire by simply ignoring the rapid double beeps.  The bullets would sound good all the way around but the ID might only be an 11-13 down in the iron range.  Even though that was a great technique, it still pales in comparison to how much superior a pulse machine is in dirt like that.  I'm glad not all of our dirt here is that severe. If it were, a pulse machine would be all I would have. Fortunately it's just places here and there and more common in fields than in woods.  I was hoping the Manticore would be better than that, as it seems to really handle well in our more common soils.  

21 minutes ago, JCR said:

Comparative field testing detectors in difficult sites is one of the best ways to learn for sure.

Did you ever run the Tarsacci on that site?

Yes we did....that's how long ago it has been since I've been at that site. The Tarsacci had JUST came available to purchase.  We didn't do so well with it and Dimitar sent us a prototype coil to try at the site, and some setting suggestions so we revisited it with that coil and a new arsenal of settings to try.  We had about the same result as the first time. My buddy owned the Tarsacci at the time and I still had the GPX.  I'd locate bullets with the GPX and then we'd try to come up with settings to check out the Tarsacci.  Pulse machine still reign king of the heap in that stuff...matter of fact, it is shocking at just how many bullets you can locate with a pulse machine at that place that the VLFs give absolutely zero indication of something being in the ground.  And not all of the bullets are deep either.  It's always an eye opener for sure.  But....was quite impressed with the D2 today.  Of course there's no telling how many I walked over and had no idea of them.

This started out as *not* a battle between the two.  The site I like to test detectors recently sold and I was finally able to get in touch with the new owners and re-acquire permission for it.  I have about another yr before it gets turned into a housing development.  What it is, is a practice range from the Civil War.  There are minie balls everywhere on it...the problem is, they are in 4-5 bar dirt and on most every VLF machine they will read as iron.  We figured this out years ago and it has just always been my place to test new detectors in a 150+ yr old test garden.  

I started out here with the Manticore.  All Terrain General with Normal audio profile, 5 tones.  Sens was at 25.  Long press noise canceled and ground balanced...off I went.  Observation number 1...it behaves a lot like the Equinox in hot dirt in that it is real chatty and falses a lot.  I hunted with it quite a while and found 2 really shallow bullets and a whole lot of non digging time between them.  I just wasn't locating signals 😕  My plan was to try and get back on the bullet site...and if that had failed, I was going to go down the road to a farm I have permission for, and hunt some iron patches with the D2 and 9 inch coil.  After hunting about an hour with the Manticore, it dawned on me that I hadn't had the D2 at this place either and I might as well give it a try since I was there.  

I went back to the truck and got the D2 out.  I went to the factory Relic program and bumped the disc up to 4. Ground balanced it and started swinging.  Right out of the chute I noted it was very quiet.  I probably didn't go 20 feet and had a really good 70s signal.  Banger signal.  Out came a bullet.  Filled that hole...4 feet from it another 70s. Another bullet. Both of those were relatively shallow...4 inches or so.  Then a few yards away, another great signal but a little weaker audio.  Still 4 way repeating.  At this point I walked to the truck and got the Manticore.  I wanted to see what it would do on this signal.  To my surprise it was crap. On the graph, it drew a smear up in the upper ferrous range and would occasionally blip about every other pass across it.  So we had one machine saying non ferrous all the way...and one that was mostly sure it was iron.  I dug and a mid depth bullet was in the bottom of the hole.  By mid depth I mean from the tip of my Garrett pinpointer to the on/off button. I'm not sure the exact measurement of that but 6 inches would be a fair guesstimate.  And this is how it went for the majority of the rest of the bullets I found.  I tried different modes on the Manticore...the only way to locate and find the bullets with it, would be to hunt a totally open screen and dig EVERY THING.  So in that regard...the Manticore *IMO*, falls into the lump of the vast majority of other VLF machines for hot dirt.  Remember I said that it was "well rounded"...well that still holds true.  It can do a lot of things pretty well...but hot dirt is not one of its strong suits.  

What is surprising to me is how well the D2 ran in it.  I started in Relic mode but quickly found out that General mode hit them just as easy with a bit more pleasing audio.  I did NOT dig any deep ones...about pinpointer deep was the deepest but I had several in that range. All were great signals and this being with the 9 inch coil is even more impressive.

Right now...if you told me I could keep only one machine. I would keep the D2....despite hating that stupid antenna for hunting in water.  The Manticore is well rounded...but the D2 has a bit more strengths in the types of hunting I do.

3 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

I agree that out-of-the-box/DOA issues for "established" detector models (e.g.  the CTX or Nox 600/800's, etc.) should typically be handled by the dealer as an exchange from dealer on hand inventory. But I know for a fact that ML keeps a short leash on dealers with newly released ML detector models such as the Nox 700/900 and Manticore.  ML requires dealers to instruct buyers to deal directly with ML North Americas Detector Center Support in Naperville, IL. In fact, the ML repair facility is seldom involved during this phase as ML Support in Naperville typically handles the exchanges directly.  The reasons are because: 1) ML HQ wants a detailed accounting of these "infant mortality" failures to determine root causes (e.g.  design flaw, manufacturing flaw, material defect, shipping damage) so that corrective actions can be quickly developed and implemented and 2) the dealers and ML repair centers typically do not have replacement stock on hand to deal with these early phase issues.  I had a defective pushbutton on.my brand new Nox 900 and went through the replacement process.  Since it was within 30 days of purchase they said I was entitled to a brand new in box unit so I shipped the defective unit and all accessories back in the original box and upon receipt they sent me the new one.  I detailed the process here. FWIW

In my CTX case, the same cause of death info could have been achieved from the unit. It wouldn't have mattered who sent it in...the dealer or me.  They did much the same with me as they did with you...they sent me a return label and it went to Illinois and upon arrival, processing, etc they sent me a new unit. Yes it was resolved: but I was still without a machine I'd paid over 2 grand for, for around 2.5 weeks. In my mind, I would have rather drove 45 mins to the dealer's shop and swapped units to a working one and only had about an hour or two down time.  Especially since I knew he had one in the store.  That's probably a good thing I'm not a dealer.  I'd feel terrible about something like that and end up giving the customer a free coil, pinpointer, or something just as an apology gesture.

1 hour ago, Ridge Runner said:

I can’t are won’t say when I got a bad case of heat rash that I may do the same thing.

 The biggest problem I see if you got a question 🙋‍♂️ Relating to that detector you just put your hard earned money on you will more than likely hear I don’t know but you will find the manual in the box.

 If I buy from Gerry are any other dealer on here they going to say what can I help you with. I’ll go beyond that even if didn’t get it from Gerry I still believe he will try to help you. I believe Rob has done just that in the past of helping a non buyer.

 I don’t like paying sales tax and being a vet of the Little Big Horn I also want to get my 15% discount. The two can add up to a fair amount of money.

 Chuck 

True.  But if you have a bad machine and or warranty issue, most dealers are going to deflect you straight to the manufacturer warranty department. Meaning you do all the legwork, and a dealer is of zero assistance.  I ran into it with a CTX 3030 that I had bought new. It had a bad display out of the box. Naturally, I contacted the dealer I had bought it from and he was like "sorry to hear that but it's out of my hands, here is the number for Minelab's service".  I won't lie. I was pretty ticked off. Definitely not how I would have handled it had I been a dealer. I would have swapped that unit with another one I had in stock (which he did have others in stock) and made sure my customer was up and going, then dealt with Minelab on my own about the defective unit. But, it is rare to find service like that. That's why I don't hesitate to order from Cabelas and such. I go by whomever has it in stock at the time I want one.  

I did.  Paid for it and had it the next day.  My dealer still hasn't received any, to my knowledge.  

Some people can be control freaks.  They think it's THEIR world, and we are just privileged to live in it.  It was such a Karen that single handedly took out gold prospecting in the national forests here in TN.  We used to be able to get a free permit and where good to dredge, pan, etc.  Nobody ever had an issue until Karen and her entourage were visiting the river and didn't like the noise from some guys that were dredging.  This actually happened to a couple of guys that were in a local GPAA claim that I was on.  She confronted them and they told her they had the right to be there. They got into it prettt bad from what I understand. She just happened to be a control freak Karen that knew some people and didn't stop climbing ladders until she got her way. 

When I am detecting in public and on public ground, I wear a bright florescent safety vest.  Don't ask me why...but for some reason this seems to satisfy the Karens and Kens that you must be a worker.  I used to have some approach me and or call the police on me for detecting a park that has a popular walking sidewalk route on it.  The Karen walkers would see me and not like me there.  Once I started wearing the vest, I never had another issue.  

7 minutes ago, Badger-NH said:

You won't find much with that attitude.

It's not an attitude or state of mind. Having a different mindset doesn't magically make what isn't there just appear. You must not know much about rural Tennessee and its history.  

Yes!! My top 4.

1. Tesoro Eldorado uMax --  I had a Bandido 2 uMax and loved that little machine. The Eldorado was to be the replacement for it. So naturally I had to have it. I hated it from day 1.  Was just something different about it. I always had plans to get another Bandido 2 but by then, they weren't cheap and still really aren't when they come up.

2. Minelab Quattro - My first FBS machine.  It and me...did NOT jive well. 

3. Fisher Excel ID -  Was a spinoff of the CoinStrike, which I really liked.  I was one of the first to get one and immediately it had bugs in the display.  Fisher sent me 2 of them and both were the same way. I ended up just getting my $ back. 

4. Nokta Impact --  I bought into the hype. Meh.  

I tried watching one of dude's videos before I was able to get my Manticore and I couldn't finish it, despite trying to soak up what I could about the detector. He annoyed the crap out of me. I saw the ones titled above and just kept on scrolling.  You can tell he definitely likes hearing himself talk.

I don't have to worry about it where I'm at.  Folks around here were so poor they couldn't tell the depression was going on.  If they had a dime to lose, they spent all week looking for it til they found it.  If I find a silver, it's normally always a 1940s Merc or Rosie that barely made the silver years.  That is unless I travel away from this immediate area.

I know this is an old thread but I started thinking back to all the detectors I've owned and sold.  I've been detecting for 30 years now and have had nearly ever top of the line machine produced from every top manufacturer in that time.   That's a lot of machines.

I've not really *regretted* selling any of them though.  Steve said it best IMO...there's been a few that I remembered as being better than they actually were. Meaning when I bought the same machine later on down the road, it wasn't as good as I remembered it being. One machine I feel absolutely outmatched by not having any more is a GPX for relic hunting.  If I did more of it and had more places to go, I'd definitely have one still.  Unfortunately for me and this area, it came along much too late and most of the sites I could have used it and to its fullest potential, are now covered with subdivision homes and or buildings.