Willy

On 8/31/2020 at 3:56 AM, deborah195412 said:

Back in the water today with my new replacement coil. I was unable to get into the Gulf due to the rough water. I was able to get into the sound and check out the new coil. There was definitely a difference today. I went through testing all the different modes and settings. Still was not very stable in the all metal mode. Settings - Sens 3,Pulse delay-11.5, ATS- 10. I was able to get the most stability in the Volcanic Sand Mode. Sensitivity- 5, ATS-9, Pulse Delay - from 7-11.5 uS Usable over the full range. The higher the pulse delay setting, the more stable it is, I can hunt in this mode just fine. Still cannot vary the coil height much while sweeping the coil,but better than the other modes. All of the modes were a little better this time out. Another factor that may be involved is we have had lots of rain in the last week. Im looking forward to trying it in the Gulf when the water calms down. I am still unable to use the full capability of the machine in the other modes. I still think a smaller coil will help in the other modes.

We have proven that the AQ in normal operative conditions works well in salted water even if there were some doubts about that.

There are now a number of AQ users operating the system in sea waters without any problem.
Also, the sea water in Florida is not much different from other parts of US coasts and Northern Europe coasts.

Thus, we must conclude that there is a specific problem on YOUR  system (and maybe on another one, who knows?) .
 

Making a diagnosis of a problem needs a systematic procedure to eliminate the potential sources one at a time. The one left is then the probable reason why it does not work. it is then still time to find the cure.

Let's make an elimination procedure together:.

1. With the old coil, you have reported that the AQ was unstable even over wet sand. Do you confirm?

2. With the new coil, what is the behavior of the system over wet sand? Is it different from before?

3. Same when only the coil is submerged and swing  in sea water?

4. Same when the coil connector and enclosure  are submerged in sea water?

5. If the AQ responses in conditions 2 and 3 are  good and the one in 4. is bad, then there could be a problem with the coil connector or its fitting. In order to confirm that, you could plunge the whole system in sea water for a few minutes, then take it out of water and immediately make a test with the coil connector in the air. If there was some salted water ingress in the connector, the system will also badly respond.

6. If the procedure 5. show that there was no water ingress in the coil connector, then there must be a problem with the  system itself. It should be returned to FTP for further study.

7. If there was water ingress, the fitting of the connector was incomplete or the connector is faulty.

In the latter cases, a 8" coil would not be a solution to your specific problem.

8. If the system makes faulty signals when slightly changing the coil height during the swing, there could be a fault somewhere in the ATS circuit. If the system re-calibrates too fast whatever the ATS setting, that triggers a constant re-adjustment. If the system does not re-calibrate fast enough, there are false detection's on every slight changes of ground conditions.  In those cases, there is no other solution than returning the whole system to FTP.

Do you see any change of system behavior when changing the ATS from minimum to maximum values?

1 hour ago, Skullgolddiver said:

Reading this post, I'm happy to realize they are healthy in business and with solid plans for the future... Unluckily I'd say there's another problem for me actually not so little.Communication.

I'm in Europe and if not for this forum, Steve, Alexandre and the information channel we have on this pages, it seem like the AQ never existed...I mean dealers, advertising, promotional activity...Nothing.

Seriously?Minelab, Nokta and every other brand can do so much noise for the minimum release of a gadget and with a similar bomb ready to face the market all this silence overseas?

I clearly asked to be part of the promotional agents for the Italian market and despite the dealer we have here, everything is so silent since before the lockdown time.

Rick Kempf is the only one person I had the pleasure to deal with...I suppose He's a dealer...

I just hope to never be in the need of assistance for my AQ...I just don't know how to keep a contact with the headquarter ant this thing scares me!

 

 

Do not worry about that, in due time and if needed, you WILL get good support from us (euroteam)

1 minute ago, Rick Kempf said:

Just for clarity - Alexandre, when you write “when only the new searchcoil is in the water” do you mean when the coil is submerged, but the control box and coil connector are not - 

YES, just the coil.

45 minutes ago, Carolina said:

Willy, thank you but this is puzzling to me. I live on the US east coast of Virginia. With sensitivity at 4 or 5 ATS 8 1/2 and reject at 3>4 tone mode is very stable in the surf knee deep and sometimes deeper when a wave rolls in. Occasionally a wave hitting the coil cable or increasing the depth of the water by a foot or so the detector will sound off. It is a little and I mean slightly chatty in tone and quieter in AM. More of a EMI issue than salinity. I do swing east and west at times but prefer to face the waves and work in and back out swinging north and south. I have zero complaints and my salinity is shown the same as the gulf of Florida. I really thought Deborah was having issues in deeper water so thanks for straightening me out. I knew of Joes issue as he scans his basket with his coil at times. I will use a pin pointer. He has cured his issue with a cut off switch for his phones. 

If you feel that you could get some EMI problems at your locations, you could try to change of pulse frequency at startup of the system.

We think that Deborah has a problem specific to her own AQ system.
Nothing to do with Florida waters.
After reading her last (doubtful) report after exchanging her 12.5" coil, we do not know whether there is still a problem on her system (outside of the exchanged coil) or if it is a swing procedure problem.

A PI system automatically re-calibrates when swinging with varying heights during the swing. It feels this as a change of ground conditions and adapts to it.

Alexandre has clearly shown this on a specific video.

17 hours ago, deborah195412 said:

Yes, According to what I read. The 11.5 setting was actually a last minute change to 15uS. Because of this last minute change, I'm assuming they knew a problem existed for working submerged in salt water. Out of the water on the wet sand beach, this machine is great.  Working here in Pensacola, in the water, A lot of the modes are not able to be used to the fullest extent with the 12.5 inch coil. I'm looking forward to trying the 8 inch coil when it is available to see how much of a change it makes. I do realize this machine was designed for use in the wet salt sand at waters edge. the capability of the machine is limited when you enter the water with the 12.5 inch coil.

" I do realize this machine was designed for use in the wet salt sand at waters edge. the capability of the machine is limited when you enter the water with the 12.5 inch coil."

This is a wrong assumption.

If the AQ aggressively reacts with the coil in the sea water, the only conclusion is that there should be a fault in the system, most probably a shield discontinuity in the coil or in its lower cable plug.

In that case, one has to report the case back to FTP.

Note that the average salinity of sea water around the world (with a few higher or lower exceptions) is between 34 to 36 ppt

Also, note that there is no exceptional salinity conditions along any coast of USA or Northern Europe.

The only places where the salinity is high are the waters closed for a long time as the Dead sea, Mediterranean sea and some heavily salted lakes as well as the ocean where there are constant large winds which evaporate the water (Northern and southern Atlantic and Pacific)

Alexandre will show the reactions of the system in waters of 42.7 ppt.

4 hours ago, Joe Beechnut OBN said:

Thats the New Model AQ I believe....dual Souriau connectors.....on the control pod, One Coil..One Headphone..looks different what I can see from the handle back..only black..Limited that area is white shaft showing, . 

Right!!!

Prototype of the final version.

Only change from the LTD version is the mechanical configuration of battery pod and enclosure.

Electronic circuits, Coil assembly  and Firmware code are strictly the same as on the LTD.

49 minutes ago, Beach Pirate said:

Thanks for sharing the videos Alexandre, 👍

The machine appears to scream with every swing towards the current, even with sensitivity down to 4. This would make hunting the surf unbearable. Is this something that will be corrected before the official release version? 

Note that the reactions in the surf are only when the coil emerges in the bubbles. This is a normal re-calibration reaction of the system.

Also, large changes of height over the ground due to the surf trigger re-calibrations. Alexandre shows that in the third video.

5 hours ago, Carolina said:

I’m not sure but I think the issues show up in waist to chest deep water with control box submerged as Joe uses his machine in the upper Chesapeake Bay. I have not had an opportunity to submerge my unit in the lower Chesapeake Bay. 

The only issues in that condition have been reported by Joe and others, it is when the coil enters and leaves the surface of the water and also when the coil connector is partly submerged. When both are submerged, there is no problem.

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

Might be easier if everyone dropped the reference to 11.5.......I wasn’t sure if it applied to all released AQ machines......hence the question 👍

Call it fully clockwise and that's it😉

53 minutes ago, jimpugh said:

Nice 

take a sharpie and block out the 1and point or period will give you the 15

since it is algorithm it would be easy to program a two- ten turn directional counter or a detent directional counter ten clicks = 15 freq.delay ......16 clicks =16 micro seconds one left or right click = different binary latch .....7 us  to 25us like a two turn CCW=7 two turns CW = 25 us every detent past 15 CW = a 1us increase in delay to max increase of second landing on 15 = 25us......most two -ten turn analog pots do not have a stop you just feel a deference in tension the program would be a simple update on micro USB port with water tight covered Plug next To head phone jack or back control panel with a walled off second safety So no way to flood board unless you run over with tank

Happy Trails

jimpugh

 

Are you planning to apply for a designer job at FTP?😉

Your proposal seems to re-invent the world.
The delay and frequency control of the AQ is implemented as a rotary SWITCH, not as a rotary ENCODER, nor a POTENTIOMETER

6 hours ago, tvr said:

What is the tactile response on the Delay / Freq knob? Meaning: are there detents as it is moved? How hard (or easy) is it to bump off a setting?

If there aren't detents, how do you know when you are set at 11uS vs 15uS (or the upcoming 20uS)? If no detents, is the adjustment a continuously variable setting based on algorithm or mapping related to knob position?

That's a rotary switch with 10 well-defined positions

7 hours ago, Joe Beechnut OBN said:

Thanks Willy for sharing.

Souriau connector for the head phones?

Probably, the same as the one used as coil connector on the LTD. (TE Connectivity)

7 hours ago, Joe Beechnut OBN said:

As crazy as it may sound...I can see someone putting the batteries in backwards...⚡

I've had one customers remove the larger O-ring I used on the excalibur endcap I sold him..and swap it out with the smaller stock O-Ring...Then installed the endcap before his island vacation......😬 disaster.

In backward position, the button of the cell is also at the back of the cell and would not enter in the corresponding hole at the front of the shaft making the positive polarity. In any case, the BMS integrated in each cell should protect the system against putting the cells backwards.

Also, we thought about people using NON-protected cells with buttons. Since they are shorter, there will not be any contact with the spring of the end cap making the negative polarity.

2 hours ago, The Seeker said:

Rick,

FT fixed the potentiometer problem like they were supposed to. I did an air test and it seems to be working properly to me since I can pick up a nickel better than when I sent it in. I still need to do the coil pinch test at full sensitivity to try and narrow whatever problem there is, if there really is one. I will keep everyone posted as I go a long and report my findings.

The pinch test should be made at low pulse delay (7 to 8µs)

• Headphone connector --> same connector as coil connector but in plastic, will be located at the back of the enclosure in parallel with the coil connector
• I would suppose there will be a choice between 8" and 12.5" but not sure, I am not in the decision circles
• What I already know is that the 8" coil will be an option.
• 4 x 18650 battery cells. Can not tell about autonomy at this point.

7 hours ago, The Seeker said:

I’m located in Southern California. I was the one who had problems with the sensitivity potentiometer and FT took care of it nicely. FT said it was a bad potentiometer from the supplier.  I hope the problem I’m experiencing now is another bad part from a supplier.

If you are still not happy with the responses of the AQ after the repair of the potentiometer, you should report again about it to FTP (through Rick)

21 hours ago, dewcon4414 said:

Do you believe the small coil will resolve the salt water issue that you mentioned?   I assume the small coil that will come out next month has been tested here in Florida where the problem occurred?   Did it work..... and what kind of depth will we loose in each mode on say a 5 gram gold ring?

Cable connector.... which connector are we talking about....... headphone, battery, coil?   If its the headphone one will it be so unique it wont be available to us to make our own phones?

Are you saying you are going with a tube style for the batteries that isnt going to be enclosed and allows us to use Lith batteries......if so will be get 6 hours run time?

Thanks for addressing these concerns some of us have Alexandre.

As Alexandre said in the previous post, the salt water issue reported by Deb is currently under close scrutiny. We still do not know whether it is a problem of shielding discontinuity on that specific coil or a more general problem (specific to Florida?😢).

A smaller coil will probably better react under the sea water than a larger coil but it will also cover less surface per swing. It will also be more sensitive to smaller targets but less to larger targets. This is a general rule(well-known cake sentence!!).

'Cable Connector' is the COIL connector to the enclosure. This is indeed very specific to the coils designed for the AQ. No question about replacing these coils with other types, they would not work at all under the stringent conditions defined  by the short pulse delays of the AQ. There is no problem related to the headphone connector.

Yes, the Li-Ion protected battery cells (18650) will be inserted inside the upper shaft and replaceable by the users. The autonomy will depend on the modes of operation and on the TRUE mAh of the 18650 cells.

56 minutes ago, deborah195412 said:

Delays range from 7-11.5 uS. I think a smaller coil would solve the problem. 

It could be but that would still not correct the problem on the 12.5" coil if it happens that there was one inside that coil;

We think that this problem is not a general behavior of the system with whatever type of coil. That was thoroughly tested by Alexandre,  Le Jag and Carl Moreland before in the same conditions.

However, the tests at the end of the production chain are currently only made with the 'COIL PINCH' procedure and not  in a real mass of salted water.

We should know for sure if your coil is faulty. Thus, we have asked to send you a new coil and yours will need to be returned for further testings.

NOTE that an 8" coil with the same internal default (incomplete shielding) would generate the same bad results.

1 hour ago, Rick Kempf said:

No customer has two that I know of - of course two owners could get together but I am not aware that they have done that yet.

Willy can chime in as to what the “Impulse Team” has done in that regard

Just use different pulse frequencies between the two users.

Quote

If you do not get this result there is potentially a problem with the searchcoil.

Given the few posts on this forum reporting about a unusable AQ system with the coil submerged in the surf of sea water even if the settings are as recommended by Alexandre, we need to poll a reporting from all the current users on that important subject.

Could you please precisely describe the conditions and settings you are using and the results you get in terms of background noise.

If you do not have too many troubles in the same conditions, please do report as well.

Even if you do not usually go into the surf, please make a try to help us diagnose any potential problem.

A supplementary test much easier to do is to set the system in full sensitivity and ALL metal and pinch several times the coil sides with your finger. if there is a default in the internal shielding of the coil, the system should react by a clear beeping else no problem. In the latter case, the coil should probably also not react under the salt water.

As shown by Le Jag on the short video above, the system should not react at all when the coil is submerged in f moving sea water . If any one AQ reacts, it could be that its coil has a problem of inside shielding continuity.

Rick, 

Can you help us gathering the results of this poll?

Thanks

2 hours ago, tvr said:

Mike,

The forum thread that discusses the AQ prototype change from metal to plastic connector follows. On the first page, Willy posts details of the decision to replace the metal connector with plastic and the consequences when the water movement crosses the connector. Thread link follows:

Impulse AQ Coil Connector - False Signals

 

Given the various reports on this forum of noise generated by the dipping of the coil connector in salt water, there is a possibility that FTP decides to use the SOURIAU coil connector made (stainless steel)  planned for the GOLD version also for to equip the final AQ version.

Just an educated guess, I am not in charge of that decision.😉

On 7/22/2020 at 6:11 PM, Joe Beechnut OBN said:

They make magnets for that job....strong little guys... I did notice you can't drop the batteries in ....more of a slowly let them fall, for they will dent the next battery you drop in..And they have different sizes for different batteries.

Good to know, I did not know that little detail.

However, it seems that these cells are not protected and thus, not certified. They  could not be used as such for any commercial system😢

With the BMS PCB, they would still be longer.

59 minutes ago, Joe Beechnut OBN said:

Pjrough those would be a great option for the New "AQ"! I may do another drop in using them, maybe start my Carbon shaft project? Thanks for sharing!  

Those are flat-top. They need to be soldered together and not just dropped in the shaft.

I do not know if there are some with button top.

8 minutes ago, cudamark said:

IMO, forget using that sample "nail" they give you. Find a common one where you are detecting and use that in your test and adjustment procedure. I found there was quite a bit of difference between the two in my settings. Deep, rusty and bent nails still sound good in my tests regardless of settings. Same with hairpins and bottle caps if you still want good tones and depth on small gold (in my tests only. still haven't found gold in the wild yet). 

Whatever iron target you use, execute the procedure I described to adjust the iron reject.