RONS DETECTORS MINELAB

Good news is the Minelab repair center has a database that can let you know if yours needs the audio updates done.

So I guess this is OK news, ☹️

Just waiting for someone to send one to the states

I have not heard anything regarding any negatives about this detector. It has a great price and a lot of good options not seen before, even if it’s not a large gold detector I still have other options for that so no big deal.

The Axiom-lite package is not available here in the states and is what people should really be waiting for before making the buy as this oz package is a lot more affordable and gives you a better option to buy accessories later that you feel you might need.

Seems like every good pi detector packages available now are in Aus./NZ  as we cannot get the GPX-5000, Axiom-lite, or the Algoforce. I guess I’ll hang on to my money until Minelab and Garrett can provide me with some better products packages.
Algoforce hopefully is working on getting them to the states have not heard any updates from them, so just being patient for now.

On 4/2/2024 at 11:28 AM, jasong said:

I do like having the auto option though, and I believe it will improve in future releases.

On 4/2/2024 at 11:35 AM, phrunt said:

I think it's best to have both.

On 4/2/2024 at 8:17 PM, Gold Catcher said:

You don't loose that much sensitivity for shallow targets when you reduce gain, but the loss in depth is much more profound.

Went out yesterday with my boy and tried to see just how far I could throw out the ground balance and I was surprised on just how well the 6000 does using the auto-sensitivity tied into the auto tracking. I have had hot pockets before where after about three passes on a small bit it did track out. I could not replicate this when trying to make it happen in milder soils though. Really wish we did have a fixed tracking option but IMHO feel the auto-sensitivity/auto tracking is pretty good. I also did a video showing the target responses using several gain settings attached above.

19 hours ago, Slimpickuns said:

 

Hope Fisher is still around to honor the 2 year warranty on this machine, with the potential problems it can have, that warranty comes in very handy

 

They usually offer a 5 year warranty on the other detectors they sell and on the Impulse they only are offering a 2 year warranty.  

9 hours ago, phrunt said:

  Maybe I should get it....  feeds the addiction.... 

I’ll be even a better friend and suggest to you to sell your Gold Bug Pro first then use the money to buy a Fisher f-19 hat for memories and then go out and run your Algoforce all day wearing your new hat. When you get back from having fun with your Algoforce then put your new hat in the closet where your Gold Bug Pro would have ended up anyways and don’t look back. You’ll even have more closet space for more x-coils then. 😉

18 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I searched their store and the F19 has disappeared, perhaps this thread sold them out. 

Just checked! Says 10 sold but more than 10 available.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134989297276?itmmeta=01HTKKN8Z2V9N0EB2ZW7WY8TJF&hash=item1f6dfd367c:g:k7QAAOSw6tRl~ept

Luck

4 minutes ago, phrunt said:

only $230 USD to ship it 😛

Luckily you got friends in the states that can ship them to you for standard shipping cost. 😅

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ssn=firsttexasproducts&store_name=firsttexasproducts&_oac=1&_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l49496

Here’s the link for the whole store including teknetics.

That T2 has got me wanting to start spurge buying which I do when any PI detectors come out.

Luckily I’m giving up on hoarding to many VLF’s for nuggets hunting and I now only use them on quartz dumps anymore. 

16 minutes ago, rexhavoc said:

Can someone point me to the Fisher eBay site? Finding a lot of other vendors but not as above - thx.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ssn=firsttexasproducts&store_name=firsttexasproducts&_oac=1&_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l49496

Here you go! They have been really good at accepting lower offers. 😁

I used my gold bug 2 yesterday to check some lower grade quartz specimens out. It’s the next best thing to the gold falcon 20 in checking for small fly specks.

Fisher has finally lowered the price on these gold bug 2 detectors to less than $500 with both 6 & 10” coils offered on their eBay site when using the best offer option. Even cheaper than the dealers get them for. 😳

On 4/1/2024 at 8:26 PM, phrunt said:

Fortunately for me I don't use the Auto modes, or I'd be nagging Minelab to release a firmware that saves your last used threshold configuration setting.

I also use the manual modes. Interesting that the owner manual does not mention what the difference is from auto+ verses high manual settings for overall performance differences. In my soils which are more challenging I find a small edge on smaller targets using the manual settings. Not sure if benign soils make any difference here but from Nenad’s auto sensitivity description it would make sense.

On the manual gain settings I am also surprised that you can go from 1 to 10 and really do not loose very much depth to targets as you would expect from all the previous legacy models. It seems like the manual sensitivity levels act more like a stabilizer noise filter than an actual gain adjustment, If this was the case then the sensitivity levels are really all automatically set on the fly and also dependent on ground conditions.

The motion speed is somewhat interesting as you mentioned, it can go from a dead to a supersonic signal. This supersonic signal sounds like a modded 5000 or what people refer to as it being on steroids.

On 3/31/2024 at 5:38 PM, RONS DETECTORS MINELAB said:

Dave Johnson

On the White’s DFX and Beachhunter ID I developed the multiple frequency circuitry, and other engineers designed products around that circuitry

Looks like Dave and Minelab were working on the same type technology developments about the same timeframes.

On 3/31/2024 at 5:38 PM, RONS DETECTORS MINELAB said:

Dave: “About 1985 I built a real sweetheart of a discriminating PI unit, not very hot in air test, but it was simple, lightweight, powered by one 9 volt “transistor battery”, ran quiet in bad ground, had no bad habits, and you didn’t have to dig any trash. It morphed into a fully static TID machine which Fisher came close to releasing about 1989, but its reliance on fully static operation which was supposed to be an advantage, was in fact a fatal flaw for a TID machine. Stripped back down, it became the Impulse which was strictly all-metals.

I like that Dave says this special PI he made with the Static TID allowed him not to dig any trash. 

On 3/31/2024 at 5:38 PM, RONS DETECTORS MINELAB said:

Industry insiders know about a PI TID machine which a fairly sharp freelancer has had under development for about 5 years and which is said to be nearing production. Whether or not that one makes it, I expect there will eventually be others.

I guess this has finally happened after all these years but not sure if he’s referring to the pinpointing static TID option.

The three refined GPX-6000 channels would explain its great performance abilities on a wide range of target sizes. And the CTX Auto Sensitivity would explain the ability to work with the varying ground conditions automatically. Guessing SETA is integrated into these complex channel loops also, guess we will never know the secret.

Below is from a couple of articles about the MPF’s refined enhance/fine gold and salt timings which seems about right for the performance we see in the 6000. Also the auto sensitivity from the CTX.

From Minelab’s SDC’s/MPF  knowledge based article:

To improve sensitivity to small targets, the transmit frequency is about 3kHz, which is much faster than a conventional PI detector. This means more averaged signal per second (3000 signals per second) of the weak small gold signals. The faint metal target signals are the same following each transmit pulse, whilst the electronic noise is random. This means that the noise averages to a low level compared to the faint metal target signals , making the target signal ‘stand out’ from the noise.
Reduced Ground Noise.

The SDC 2300 incorporates Minelab’s proven “Enhance/Fine Gold” type of receive processing that minimises mineralised soil signals and false detection of hot rocks, unlike traditional PI detectors. This greatly assists with nugget detection in most gold fields, especially in highly mineralised gold fields. This substantial reduction in ground noise makes prospecting less confusing and more time efficient, It incorporates Automatic Ground Tracking and
Fast Ground Balance so that the detector is always optimally ground balanced.

Performance in Salty Conditions
The SDC 2300 incorporates a Salt Mode for which the transmit and receive timing signals have been optimised for saline conditions found in some gold field areas.

Nenad’s CTX Auto Sensitivity write-up:

 I’d like to explain briefly how Auto works. As you are sweeping, the CTX 3030 automatically measures the ground, and uses this information to set the Sensitivity to the maximum stable setting. Now it is important to know, that the detector can accurately analyse the signal from positive or magnetic mineralisation, but does a poor job on conductive ground, which saltwater beaches are. What happens is that the detector will continue trying to gather ground information, but a primarily conductive ground response can cause the Sensitivity setting to be inconsistent, leading to an incorrect setting. So as the detector struggles to read the conductive ground accurately, the operator ends up with a noisy detector, due to a Sensitivity setting that is too high.

The reverse can also happen, and due to incorrect ground information being read, the detector sets the Auto Sensitivity conservatively low, i.e. 16, whereas if set manually, the operator would find that the detector is still working well on a Sensitivity setting of say, 21. In this instance, the operator who is working in Manual Sensitivity would be getting better performance. 

17 hours ago, Gold Catcher said:

In certain situations the SDC is still the better choice and beats the 6k IMO,

Maybe a 10x5” DD should be a coil the aftermarket companies could make to help with the ground effects.

Teknetics home page and tek files

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

I'm pretty sure this was from one of those although you didn't indicate where you found it.

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

Yep, the only recent patent on it was under his name.

 

These guys were the Einstein’s of the metal detector industry, I guess once they retire replacing them would be quite challenging for these companies.

I am glad Alex is starting to take off very well with the start of the Algoforce company. Seems like he’s has some of the best new inventions and patents for new technology out there recently. 

I was looking though some blogs on electrical engineer Dave Johnson and Bruce Candy and was amazed at how much of our best detector technologies have come from these two inventors. I'm sure there is more people to give credit too also but these two have really left a milestone. 

Here's below is a Q & A from Dave Johnson

Question 5:

DS: Would you mind giving us a list of detectors you’ve had a hand in developing?

Dave: “Old Fisher: 1260, 1220, 1210, 1225, 1235, 1265, 1266, 1280, Impulse, CZ6, CZ5, CZ20, Gold Bug, Gold Bug II, TW6/Gemini, FX-3, and several industrial products.

Tesoro: Diablo MicroMax, Lobo Supertraq.

White’s: DFX, Beachhunter ID, GMT, MXT

Troy: Shadow X5

Bounty Hunter & related products: nearly everything we manufacture. Many of these products are adapted from the original Teknetics which was designed by George Payne. The Teknetics T2 however was an entirely new design.

New Fisher: F75, F4, and everything else since then.

On most of the above I was the lead engineer. On the White’s DFX and Beachhunter ID I developed the multiple frequency circuitry, and other engineers designed products around that circuitry. In addition to the above there are many products on the market which are adaptations by other engineers of products I designed.”

John: “Bounty Hunter : I have had a hand in most of our current line up from the bottom to the top, from Guardian to the Time Ranger.

Teknetics : T2 I was main programmer

The Fisher’s : The F4 and F75”

Question 6:

DS: Are we about “maxed out” as far as how deep VLF units will go? In your opinion, what’s the biggest obstacle for current technology in achieving increased useable detection depth?

Dave: “Getting extra depth out of a VLF, multifrequency, or PI machine is very difficult, because these machines follow an inverse 6th power law relationship between signal voltage and depth. If everything else is maintained equal, doubling the depth requires 64 times as much signal. If this is done by increasing transmitter power, doubling depth requires 4,096 times as much battery drain. That’s the basic reason why depth increases come so slowly in this industry.

The biggest impediment to getting usable depth in the ground, is interference from magnetic and electrically conductive minerals in the ground, which can produce signals hundreds of times as strong as that of the metal target you’re trying to detect and hopefully identify. There are several approaches to extracting the metal signal from the ground mineral signal, but they all have their limitations. That’s why you see several different technologies coexisting in the market.”

John: “Dave points out biggest obstacle which is seeing target through the Ground and Air interference.”

Question 7:

DS: If you had to pick one existing feature on the F-75 that you’re the proudest of, what would it be?

Dave: “If we can include the T2, it’s a tossup between the ergonomics and the target separation. Both aspects of the design were huge leaps forward.

If you mean just the F75: the fact that on the F75 we pushed sensitivity even further than on the T2. As I said a few questions back, more sensitivity is very difficult to get in this industry.”

John: “One of things I like best about the F75 is it has the ability to give I.D. values while in static mode.”

Question 8:

DS: Are TID pulse units the hobby future? Or, what do you think will be the next great advancement in metal detector technology?

Dave: “About 1985 I built a real sweetheart of a discriminating PI unit, not very hot in air test, but it was simple, lightweight, powered by one 9 volt “transistor battery”, ran quiet in bad ground, had no bad habits, and you didn’t have to dig any trash. It morphed into a fully static TID machine which Fisher came close to releasing about 1989, but its reliance on fully static operation which was supposed to be an advantage, was in fact a fatal flaw for a TID machine. Stripped back down, it became the Impulse which was strictly all-metals.

Industry insiders know about a PI TID machine which a fairly sharp freelancer has had under development for about 5 years and which is said to be nearing production. Whether or not that one makes it, I expect there will eventually be others.

The next great advancement in metal detector technology will be….. ahem… we’ll all know when whatever it is actually hits the market and customers say it’s a great advancement. I hope that when that event happens, it’s got our trademark on it. If it’s got someone else’s trademark, I guess we’ll just have to play leapfrog.”

Bruce Candy had the most PI/ZED Technology advancements and is still applying for patents in 2024.

Very nice work Doc, looks like a winner for sure. 😎

The weight goes into the middle of the back or lower body area so it removes most of the side tension probably most of it which has been my biggest problem for sure.

I think if Minelabs lowers the Zed prices a lot of people might reconsider buying one again now we have the  Dalas to attach to it.

You can get the Doc’s screamer system shipped there without the batteries and just buy the NP-f970 camera battery. There is also the NP-550 that has 3000 mah, and weighs less but you’ll probably need an extra battery to get through the day.

The Vermico brand uses the 18650 Samsung batteries inside, so getting good quality batteries there.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z3TGC7B/ref=pe_386300_440135490_TE_simp_item_image

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BZR891KG/ref=pe_386300_440135490_TE_simp_item_image

I glad to hear Garrett is releasing a new model. I would think any large metal detector company releasing a new model would have something better and have an edge over the competitors models or it would be a loss of money to the company if no one was interested in upgrading to it.

I know most big names try to do marketing hype to get sales but I do hope this is a new better detector and that is always exciting to see. With the last statement being said I will be glad to see the proof from the community who first test it out. I do know things have been really at a wall for performance on most detector platforms lately though.

12.5” will definitely start to loose depth on the smaller gold but you could also run your 10x5” DD in mono mode and do pretty well on the smaller bits.

True round coils have the best performance and small elliptical coils are better for tighter areas and larger elliptical coils are better for patch hunting. 

If having around gram sized and smaller gold then any of the coils your looking at should work well.

Spiral wound coils well give you better sensitivity and depth, but suffer from more ground noises, usually just lowering sensitivity can overcome this issue especially if you’re running in Smooth timing on the 4000. Smooth timing is described as having the best severe ground handling with some loss of target strength. So really depends how mineralized the ground is there.

The 14x9” mono would be a good option for picking up most gold sizes around 12 inches in depth or less, a good all around coil.

Do you have a good idea on the gold sizes found there?

I

15 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I should make a video showing it hitting on gold the GPX 5000 is missing.

I am hoping the Algoforce has the one timing that the 5000 is missing for disseminated gold that we were looking for in our imaginary GPX Pro version.

Those are both classic examples of multi frequency has ruined the single frequency vlf market. Hopefully Pulse Induction is also going to go down in price.