Lynk

30 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I'll have a like brand new with tons of warranty GPZ 7000 for sale but am not quite done using it yet, some things I need to do before selling it. So if you are still looking by maybe around August at latest I'll have one available at a good price.

Thanks, Steve. I would be using it in July, but if I don't get one by then it's likely I will still keep an eye out. 

9 hours ago, jasong said:

 

Thank you for your reply. That's an impressive setup and if I could use it for more than a couple weeks per year it would be very tempting. 

I generally get out west for two weeks and really don't get the full two weeks to hit the fields.  With my time limited to that one trip per year I get a little FOMO with regards to what I might be missing and am talking myself into a Z. But also because of those limitations , I am mostly focused on the basic package.  I actually bought a used one a few years ago and sold it later in the summer after my trip.  Every once in a while I try have cost of capital discipline. 

Thank you for your thoughts and advice. I have purchased a number of detectors from members and items from each dealer.  It's a great community. 

Unfortunately I am in the Midwest, not the bastion of GPZs 😁 otherwise the GPAA forum is a great idea. 

I am looking for a used, but fully operational GPZ 7000.  Without stating a price, my expectations are in line with units that have been sold through the classifieds here or the price implied by completed eBay transactions.  Please PM me if you have one for sale. 

Thank you. 

28 minutes ago, AirmetTango said:

Ok, I’ll play devil’s advocate. I count 20 VLFs on Nokta’s site…what’s your point about focus again??

 

It's a fair point and, as you show, it seems Nokta has the same issue. The global metal detection total addressable market (TAM) is small at only $1.6 billion in 2023 per this report:  https://www.360iresearch.com/library/intelligence/metal-detector

That includes consumer, government, and specialty.  It is tiny. 

Every product line will have some fixed cost and require a variable amount of resources from management, engineers, marketing, etc.  With a small TAM there are fewer resources to allocate to each product, which also means fewer resources for quality control and R&D.  The smart phone market is much, much larger and how many iPhone models does Apple have? 

To keep the thread on topic, the X-Terra Elite seems like a very incremental product and it's not clear what market niche it addresses that isn't already served by other Minelab products. Ultimately, the lack of differentiated products will tend to confuse consumers. It seems we have been a bit confused here and this is group of enthusiasts who can parse out technicals and features much better than the average consumer. 

Minelab's site shows fourteen VLF detectors, not including "packs".  That seems like a lot of models where the differences can become very nuanced. The company feels a bit unfocused. 

Good call....

It did work quite well, I think.  Not surprisingly the two things that cause issues are iron (negative numbers) and very low positive numbers.  A couple gold nuggets were off by 5 or 6.

(Not sure why these don't paste smaller!)

The square nail was by far the largest issue. Ex that the standard deviations come in a far amount.

Thanks for the inspiration @BigSkyGuy. Here is a very similar chart to yours, but done in Excel, for the 800 vs the 900.  There were 40 items tested with both using the 6" coil. The settings are below. The 900 had lower than max sensitivity for stability purposes. 

(Sorry if the pic is huge. I couldn't adjust it.)

A couple of notes:

• The one iron item was a square nail.
• The stack at 1 on the 800 is foil, a 0.054 g flake, a 0.65 g nugget with host rock, and a 1/2 vile of dust.
  • A chunk of graphite was 1 on both.
• The stacking of data points for the 800 may represent more perceived stability, but versus the larger scale could just give that impression.

To test the last bullet, here is a chart of the 900 TID divided by the 800 TID vs the 800 TID data point.  It's not surprising on the low end (1 or 2) the multiple gets out of whack as a 4 on 900 would obviously 4X a 1 on the 800, but that extreme doesn't carry through.  The chart does provide another way to look at and, I think, confirm the attempt at a higher resolution mid range. 

That's a great chart. Thanks for sharing it! The fit of the scatter plot is tighter than I would have guessed. 

Definitely makes sense and I wish my hearing was more tone/pitch sensitive to entirely hunt like that.

The Minelab charts are mostly interesting to me as a conveyance of intent, either marketing or design, and I like to see them for that information. 

Ah. Thank you. Seems like a good chart to release when the detectors were released in order to help guide to a framework on how to think about the expanded TIDs. Maybe it was around, but the company didn't widely publish it. 

Again, thanks.

Where did you find that, Simon? If it's a newer release I am almost more interested in the intent (ie, why now). 

Thanks for your report. I was out yesterday with the 6" coil on the 900 in an area with EMF and it ran fine.  

So maybe the 10x5 may not be as stable/too sensitive on the 900. That makes me wonder if anyone has experienced that with the other Coiltek coils on the 900?

The 900 is controversial. I have both the 800 and the 900 and feel way more confident in the 800.  

So depending on the mineralization  of that area, I would recommend the 800.  It is an excellent detector for gold and, of course, general use. The water proofing should suit your needs and there is a wide section of coils.  While a new one is already less expensive than a 900, you also may be able to scoop a quality used one and have even more money left over for coils.   

They are spending, but they said Minelab spend is largely "consistent" and I would read that to be flat. Much of the overall increase is coming from M&A, which is largely comms. 

It would be great to see a modernized SDC. The could also put the MF5 in a new form factor at the same time. 

In the call an analyst asked about new products.  Management said they are "heavily" focused on the next generation of "probably" the gold products.   They said they need a refresh in gold and that we will "probably" see those in FY2025 (July 2024 to June 2025). 

There is a commercial I keep hearing that says "probably" is the most disappointing word in the English language.  I don't know if it was management's intent to sow doubt, but they did not instill confidence.

They go on to talk about technology spend and that a lot of the segment spend is on development of e-commerce and B2C. Said another way, they have been spending research and development dollars on market share and not new products. 

I imagine we will see something gold related next spring, but I also imagine it will be very incremental and not revolutionary. Hopefully they prove me wrong.

I have some concern my Coiltek 10x5 caused my 900 to act squirrelly, so it's interesting to hear your experience.  Winter hit and have not been able to go out and verify, but I have actually bought another Minelab 6" coil just in case it is an issue. (My other 6" coils are on Nox 800s)

The same Coiltek coil was fine on my 800, so it's not a bad coil at all.  Again, I need to confirm all this as the weather warms, so take my comments with a grain of salt for now.

Thanks for sharing that crazy story and congratulations on a successful go with the Algoforce! 

Quite an exciting report of the detector's potential. I hope all the competition is reading it. 

Such a small world. We met Mindy in our neck of the woods through a completely different channel than metal detecting.  I have had the pleasure of seeing some of her finds and hearing some of her stories. Really wonderful. 

Good to see her post and thanks for sharing the picture.

Fun find!  Those are really sharp points. Wow. Would be cool up in a cabin or den.  

Thanks for sharing!

Spot on, Jeff. In fact, I recently picked up a used 800 and now have two.  If you find the right seller and price, they are really great values and still very relevant.

Jeff's original post was April 25 and very thoughtfully highlighted the 900's issues with numerous examples driven by many hours of experience.  As mentioned, we know Minelab reads the forum.

So we are a year past the release, about eight months past Jeff's post, and past the Manticore update.  So what's going on, Minelab? Even a verbal acknowledgement you understand our concerns and are doing your best to address them would be constructive.  I very well understand business decisions are made from the point of being economically rational, but damaging your brand value has real economic consequences.  It leaves people assuming you can't or you won't. Both are losing propositions.  So again, what's going on Minelab? A company's reputation has to be built every day on the foundation built yesterday.  It's a new day Minelab. Start building. 

I use and really like Doc's Stalker pick. The weight is great, the narrow pick end let's you get in some crevices, and I really like how sharp the shovel end comes. 

While I use gloves, I often refinish the handle to a burnt finish and did with Doc's too. 

The Apex I own is really heavy duty, but the weight and profile just don't fit most situations for me. 

Chase, Thanks for the suggestion.  I was having the same random erratic behavior while using the 6 inch coil hunting nuggets.  I generally push sensitivity and then back off when it becomes too chirpy for me.  I was hunting the same area, so I wasn't facing variable ground conditions from day to day.  There also isn't an EMI issue there. I have a 6k and that ran well and there are no power lines or even cell signals for miles. 

I ultimately need to send it in, but life and work keep distracting me. Ha. 

I have the same issue with my 900. I had it on its first trip where it started fine. A few days in it became erratic and I switched back to the 800 I also had with. 

Please let us know what Minelab says.