cjc

On 1/17/2022 at 7:05 AM, Chase Goldman said:

So...I get why we haven't seen an Impulse AQ bake off against D2 to date, but where has this comparison vs. the Nox been all these months?

Looking at Alexandre's 7 point list, my swag is that D2 is going to represent quite well.  Would really like to see those results...

...about 8 inches deeper--contest over.  Maybe more...😆

cjc

I can't help thinking that some kind of a semi-circular guard would protect these delicate connectors on the Limited.  Im developing a short lanyard / clip / loop system that will attach the machine at the handle to my belt for digging in surge.  Still to coin a phrase--"performance is everything-"-and this is a full on dream machine.   I think what I would  like to see is a SAT control  that goes higher to accommodate the stock coil in fast high saline / high EMI conditions--although im still testing--where Im hunting could be exceptional.   My first unit had problems with a pot  and some plastic--but FT service has been excellent and kept me in the game long enough to see past the detractions and get down to business...good luck--spring  is coming...

cjc

On 1/13/2022 at 11:54 AM, Bill (S. CA) said:

I'm going to throw in a different take on the AQ since, like Steve, I've had it with First Texas.  While I agree that the AQ needs a major redesign, I blame the need for this on one thing.  "Shill field testers."  How many times have we heard about new detectors that are being tested worldwide by supposedly qualified field testers and right when the machines are ready to come out there is a sudden and abrupt halt?  The reason is always the same, something to the effect of "minor changes, adding useful features, etc."  Baloney.  The problem is that most guys who test these units are just looking to get free stuff so they rubber stamp units.  I'll give you a perfect example.  A number of years ago a very prominent metal detector manufacturer contacted me and one other detectorist in the United States to test out a new detector.  We were told that it performed flawlessly in the lab and that a team of European hunters had all signed off on the detector.   To make a long story short, it took each of us less than an hour to determine that the detector was impossible to hunt with.  It took over three months of our testing various software upgrades and changes before we were able to get it working.  All of that was done for zero compensation and no free stuff.  And it was worth it because the detector became one of the best selling metal detectors of all time.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not beating my chest and bragging.  My point is that if these manufacturers were serious about building detectors that work they would use genuine, honest testers instead of these ass kissing shills they go to every time.  On this forum alone, a number of you would be ideal candidates.  But for some unknown reason the manufacturers simply don't seek out the honest types of testers required to really evaluate new detectors.  I mean, come on, the mechanical problems of the AQ have been visible from the start and verified by users.  First Texas could have hired Joe Beechnut to fix everything, right?

And so it goes.  I'll be honest, I think the AQ is dead.  And even if it does hit the market, who cares?  The Deus II has taken any buzz that the AQ had and squashed it.

Bill (S. CA

Bill --Im not a shill field tester--Im the harshest one out.  But this detector has brought me around--it does what it's supposed to do very well.  The rest--the physical  problems are (to me) secondary.  As long as it gets  me the gold and  my carelessness doesn't break it too easily--Im good.  Overall--given some battery life, maybe some kind of a guard for the connectors--this is the best beach machine out--and probably will be for a long time.   I appreciate the risk FT has taken to bring  this tech to market and there's no way Im going to begrudge them for these minor issues.  That would be pure ingratitude.  Based upon my 40+ years of swinging--this is a gold getter if ever saw one. 

cjc

On 1/13/2022 at 7:05 PM, tvr said:

So here are some of my thoughts on what "useful discrimination" is related to the AQ LTD:

Back when I got a CZ20 to start getting serious about finding gold at beaches, it was tuned so that nickels were mid-tone. I could choose to detect and dig only the mid-tones with the theory that doing so could maximize return on effort at the beach by only digging the range where most of the gold was. Thinking back on that recently, I was inspired learn what I could with the AQ LTD with respect to useful discrimination.

 

I've been hunting nearly all in all metal mode with the AQ LTD. Shortly after I got the AQ LTD I took a trip to one beach specifically to see how the AQ handled a beach filled with hot rocks and learn a little bit on how I could handle them using its discrimination capabilities. I had not done much with discrimination since then until the last two weeks. Had a long trip to a wide open beach and I figured it was time to really learn the discrimination capabilities. One thing I previously figured out is that it is difficult to get rid of hair pins on any setting; I still found that to be true, yet they do give that classic double beep that makes them easy to walk away from. I decided to pick a couple of targets and set up to hear the tone shift in tone mode that would tell me to walk away from those targets that otherwise do not give a lot of clues.

 

The problem targets I picked to set up with were some small screws that I had dug while thinking they were going to be good targets, but were not. Setting up to identify those screws as "no dig" in tone mode had me at Reject = 7; ATS just shy of 9. I spent a few days tweaking the settings but staying pretty close to those; ending up with Reject 7 and ATS just a hair above 8. If I chose to just dig the sweet high tones and none of the warbles or grunting sounds then about the only iron I was digging was the occasional hair pin and a couple of round washers. The hairpins were still walk-away signals because of the clear double beep. I was not digging tent stakes. I also wasn't digging pennies, dimes, quarters, lead sinkers or soda beer cans! I dug most targets for nearly a week to see what the audio was like. With those settings, zinc pennies, small fishing sinkers and most of the tent pegs were a warbling mid-tone, copper pennies, big sinkers, dimes, quarters, soda and beer cans and the rest of the tent pegs were low tone grunting. The biggest problem target remained bottle caps. I’m not doing well identifying them for what they are.

 

After the last couple weeks I think I'm pretty confident that the AQ LTD does have useful discrimination and that if I want to just focus on the most likely gold range and not dig coins, cans, sinkers, tent pegs or .50 caliber shells; I can do that. There is a chance I will not dig that huge monstrous gold ring when set like I'm set, but the focus will be squarely on looking for the majority of gold jewelry and not digging otherwise. In the middle of fresh drop season, I think it could be a productive way to go!

 

I agree with you 100%TVR.  With practice, with very careful handling of the back connectors, this machine has a lot of  potential.  If you have used a lot of other pulses and  know what to listen for (peaked, centered, narrow responses) the audio of this detector can be very good to you.  It has the accurate characteristics of an Eric Foster circuit and because of that smoothness and detailed reporting--tells you a lot.  The discrimination may sound off on some iron and some wire but the information to avoid these targets is there.  Ive had problems with stability in salt conditions.  These may  or may  not have come from corrosion on the coil contacts.  I've just invested in a small  coil with the hope of running this machine successfully under  fast salt conditions. Fisher First Texas has made a good try of making this detector despite its problems--I feel that the potential outweighs the problems.  It has TDI Pro depth, great target information and  something that closely resembles discrimination.   Alexandre's refinements to Eric's circuit do tell you what's iron and what isn't.  He has also responded to my enquiries--something I appreciate a lot.  More so than any of the new VLFs coming out--this machine is a true "secret weapon"--the one I had hoped my waterproof TDI Pro would be.  Point being that when I pick this detector up---turn it over--give it a shake, look at it closely--Im forced to admit that it does what its supposed to--quite well in fact--and can be used. FT has responded to the physical problems Ive had with this machine fast and with exactitude--they have stood behind this product as constituted. That's enough for me and I would buy another if I could. 

cjc

On 2/20/2022 at 9:14 PM, phrunt said:

It kind of makes this testers nail board test video seem a bit odd.

 

If you are going to give any street cred to this kind of testing--this one seems to show the Legend in a more accurate light.  Nice audio and clean transitions amongst the spikes.   From my "iron cross" testing days I will say that these high resolution machines operate on a ratio--that is---there  is a limit to how big or a chunk of iron they will "see  through".  These tests are more telling IMHO--but still not definitive of in ground performance.  Anyone who wants to see the Impact and NOX perform  this remarkable test can take a look at my YouTube channel.  

cjc

18 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

You lost me Clive.  The nailboard test does not test the effectiveness of iron bias, it tests recovery speed and can inform on the adverse impact iron bias can have on recovery/masking.  Good Legend performance on the nailboard test, does not mean the filter is effective against what it is supposed to do, which is to mitigate mixed ferrous falsing.  Or have I misunderstood your comment above?

Well, really I posted that video to show  that with machines with that much fidelity--these side by side tests don't mean much.  One day its one machine looking better in iron--the next day its the other...

c

11 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Nokta has actually won here because nobody is talking about how good the iron bias implementation is on Legend, they're just clamoring for it to be a   djustable as if it's a given that it is an effective ferrous anti-falsing filter. 

Looks and sounds pretty good to me...

cjc

In practical terms, Iron Bias controls how much extension you will hear in the signal tone when you swing the coil over alloys.  Iron is the ultimate alloy--a highly diverse signal thats also magnetically connected to the surrounding ground.  Another way to see Iron Bias is that it's the "grain" of the signal tone over iron and adjusts how cleaner metals will stand out.  To use it effectively it helps to have a basic understanding of signal types:  "clean" metal--that is composed of only a few metals, diverse alloys, like aluminum slag or a screwcap, versus magnetic type alloys--such as steel or the ferrous, non ferrous combination of a bottlecap.  While I do trust N/M's judgement in selecting a single setting for the Legend (especially from a beginner's standpoint)--Im in the "yay" camp in that I like the extra fidelity at cap infested shorelines.  Fine tuning this control lets me pick out aluminum and gold from these caps while others are digging everything.  Im very excited about this detector and can't wait to see how it operates in these types of conditions.  Based upon what I've  heard of the audio--it sound like a great dense junk gold hunting machine. 

cjc's

That's a no--different wiring. 

cjc

Tadpole: http://clivesgoldpage.com/

Regards clive

This is pretty much my one big problem with the NOX--that the funky modulation just won't let you tell what is what size.  With wired phones--the soft audio is a bit annoying too.  My only suggestion would be to branch out a bit and use your pinpoint to tell size.  I also go back and forth to Horeshoe to tell more solid objects by which side of the line the assign to.  You might also try G2 as a checker with some rejects in to make the signal jump over.  This sizing thing is critical and those who don't fancy using Pinpoint or the cross sweep pay a price in frustration. 

Hope this helps. 

cjc

9 hours ago, Lance said:

 I was in the Dive Program, and did try the  beach program for a short while but it was noisy with the standard settings. This coming weekend I am planning on trying to run the Beach and Beach Sensitive program with a few changes. Hopefully I can get a little more depth in the water.

 

...and this is a great question. With the NOX--in fast salt all the beggar tricks (higher disc, higher 1st tone break, low Sens, fast rec--won't let you run beach 1.  (Great signal balancing practice though).  Maybe the D2 is different....

cjc

On 2/16/2022 at 4:11 AM, Lance said:

I was  was testing the D2 with an  11 inch coil  in salt water over the weekend. On wet sand it was giving a clear signal on a 14 inch low conductor coin (Program- Beach Sens).  In chest deep water it was was struggling on the same target at 10 inches (Program -Dive). The Ctx gave a slightly clearer signal, which might be due to the fact that I am more familiar with Ctx  . I will try some more testing this weekend

, 

This is exactly the kind of simple no nonsense testing that's needed.  Laughable hearing Calabash going on about how it beats a way overtuned NOX with the Coiltek 15" --25 Sens --ya right...

As itchy as my trigger finger is--that's the hard dope--thanks, Midalake.

cjc

57 minutes ago, Steve Andrews said:

Oh I see.. Beginner mistakes. You should have said.

You've inspired me to try cranking that big coil once more--thanks!  And sorry  the original  blog post did  say  "beginner." http://www.clivesgoldpage.com/top-minelab-equinox-mistakes/ 

c

55 minutes ago, Steve Andrews said:

 I can tell all that without using the pinpoint function, or the "depth meter"

No basic skills 😀

In fact, I make a number of your "mistakes". Large coil with sens at 23, iron bias F2 0.. It's a wonder that I find anything at all!

Its easy to say all this stuff--context notwithstanding.  It's like the old " I dig everything" lament that conveniently misses the  part about "where".  You're having a conversation with yourself....

Im just saying  that inland., or in iron and junk infested  locations--these  skills will help if you chose to use them--especially (as stated--holy crow) if you  are a beginner. 

I gave up debates and hot dogs--for much the same reason--case in point. 

cjc

On 1/26/2022 at 1:42 PM, Badger-NH said:

My only interest is watching the drama as it silently unfolds. I don't care about the AQ anymore. It has proven itself a flop. They need to start over, scrap the target ID idea and just make an awesome PI.

And while they're at it, make a new CZ machine for the beach.

I don't agree with this--the AQ might have a a few opening night jitters but overall it does as advertised and has TDI Pro level  depth while doing so.  Huge potential. 

Also, initially, pins where the number one problem target with the AQ but as I've trained  my ear I can hear the weakness and non-centered character of the tone.  This is the level of hearing (and not over tuning) that's needed with a pulse of this caliber in order not  to dig caps and iron.  

cjc

3 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Saltwater beach hunting with the Equinox in the surf, wash, or  wet sand I rarely use the pinpoint function or pay much attention to the depth meter. The audio tells me enough to dig or not.

Gold prospecting....again, I rarely use the depth meter or pinpoint function.

Freshwater beach hunting or any kind of turf hunting for coins and jewelry and even relics, I am constantly using the pinpoint feature and the depth meter and any other form of target locator and target diagnostic feature available.

My list originally  started with |"...not using.." --changed it to "never...." for that reason. 

cjc

On 8/20/2020 at 9:45 AM, okara gold said:

No Ears Here Either! LOL

"...Its all in fun  until..."

On 2/14/2022 at 5:49 AM, Steve Andrews said:

I can honestly say that I never use the pinpoint function, or the depth meter - and I'm not about to start now 🙂

"Hunting with no basic skills is great if you don't mind not having any idea what size and shape your signals are, where they are and if they are iron or not... "

cjc

On 2/14/2022 at 6:52 AM, diggindaboot said:

I ran my buddies D2 while he used his Nox 800 yesterday at the beach. It's really not close. The 800 is a better beach detector by far. My D2 is coming in Tuesday. I paid 1300 dollars. I'm not even going to remove it from the box. I'm going to sell it. Very disappointed after having such high hopes. 

Xp will need to do something with how the vdi screen is constantly changing when swinging over a target. It's a major annoyance. 

you are always better off testing with that kind of a target--not a solid loop. that said, I get the sense that because the metal is competing with the grounds signal--and not that different----it's being biased out--that is the difference is seen as an alloy--just as would a weak, flat bottlecap signal. there's a lot going on with the fidelity of this machine as well. signal balancing becomes much more complex. the adjustments you were making might just not be the right ones...😆 I was  similarly shocked  trying to run the CTX big coil in salt water--it was  missing all  but surface targets.  But after MUCH fiddling--low Gain, super slow E/W sweep, some disc lines to clean up the target assignment, tests that alternated between fast and slow retuning --I was finally  getting green rings at 18" +.   

It's almost like signal balancing has become some "forgotten secret" that everyone thinks these  new machines full of presets will  make unnecessary.  They wont--and when you  add  in these complex audio, bias and salt balance features there's  even  more testing needed to get specific desired  results. 

cjc

On 12/15/2021 at 3:58 PM, dewcon4414 said:

There are bottle caps that read iron period..... then there are those that like on the Nox hit right there in the gold range..... AND others in the upper range like corona or WRAP AROUND on some machines.  So i wonder which is being disc and how it will read those deep ones EVERYONE digs?  Im not a fan of disc for non-ferr..... id rater learn what the machine is telling me over time.  As a gold hunter...... a miss can cost you a really nice yellow sparkler.  

I seen a short dive video too..... but it was fresh water not the same.   Soooo when one of you guys in Fl Gulf gets one let me know.  Id like to see it work and bring a few gold items and see if it does the same to my gold chains.   Im from MO when it comes to a VLF hitting a gold chain at 12" in salt water.

We are in the same wait and see  boat on this one Dewcon--waiting for someone to go past in Dive mode...I don't know about you but my trigger finger is getting itchy...😆My problem with the NOX  is that it often drops into low TX doing who knows what.  Also, if the D2 is losing depth in salt with the 9" coil, the big coil can only be worse.  Even the mighty CTX has this problem--just can't process  it's own big coil with out some PHD level signal  balancing....

cjc

4 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

I use it for determining if a target is a medium depth or less coin sized non-ferrous or deep aluminum can sized non-ferrous. 

Sometimes the depth meter will read shallow for a deep aluminum can sized non-ferrous target but also shallow for a non-ferrous US coin in the surface to 4" or so range. Often the audio response is very similar. Raising the coil is a quick way to determine if it is a smaller coin sized non-ferrous target......signal response ceases fairly quickly as the coil is raised while swinging over it or the signal response continues even with the coil 6" to a foot of the ground if it is really big aluminum.

Thanks--I'm going to use that.  Hunt one place where there are just the can ends--they sound great on the NOX. 

cjc

Thanks GnshpCSO  These all relate to basic skills and without them a super sensitive machine like the NOX is a lot harder to get the hang of. 

cjc

56 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Clive, those are definitely all very valid "mistakes" that the Equinox will bite one back for making.

I would only add the old maxim of raising the coil while swinging over a potential dig or not dig target it if there is confusion about a target being coin sized or much bigger. 

I am sure there may be more that people with tons of experience can add.

 

Great topic!!!!!!

Ya, thats an old pulse hunter's trick--to feel around for the "point" of the field shape of a non ferrous targets--whereas  the wider flat top of an iron field drops out abruptly as you lift  the coil higher. 

cjc

TOP MINELAB EQUINOX MISTAKES

(I know ‘em, cause I’ve made ‘em...)

1/ Not using cross sweep to determine how consistent a signal is. This results in a lot of elongated targets that sound good in one direction getting dug up.

2/ Not using pinpoint to determine how solid, what size and shape a target is also iron wide / narrow.

Pinpoint can also tell you when the machine is responding to part of a larger object—like wire. The machine’s high Gain causes you to dig too many “flyspecks.”

3/ Not using the depth meter to get an idea of target size and location in the strata. The depth meter can help to correlate the other information you are getting to give a better idea of where and what size a target is.

4/ Sensitivity too high (targets don’t stand out), or small surface targets dominate the signal. Target tones become clipped sounding, machine loses depth.

5/ Bias too low (targets don’t stand out), dig alloys.

6/ Recovery speed too fast, targets don’t stand out.

7/ Using a large coil with too much sensitivity—targets don’t stand out from the larger detection field.

8/ Using a large coil with the recovery speed too fast—machine does not have time to process the information from the larger detection field.

9/ Large coil, black sand or high saline, (or fast salt) sensitivity too high --less depth than  stock coil.

cjc