cjc

13 hours ago, dewcon4414 said:

Also running at 6+ eliminates those pesty iron/mineral falsing that fall in that second bin if you arent running AM.   What i like about 2 tone is it can really be adjusted to your hearing as well...... the really high tones are a bit much for me.   Once you reduce the volume in the iron range you are just listening for targets.  F2 is a real good dry sand option.... but i had to do some tone adjustment over the default.   But depth is very good.   Here at least, if the sand is damp....... most of the modes will really talk to you.

Glad someone agrees with me on the 2 Tone.  Kind of pulse like--gets rid of any warbling between bins. cjc

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Agree Clive - B2 for salt (will have to give 2 - tone a go sometime) and G (unlike the other modes I think (i.e., a theory we have on the forum)  Gold 1 and 2 are the same just with different settings) for freshwater.  Would like VCO as an audio choice for the non-gold modes.

A little off topic, what do you think about Field 1 - 2-Tone.  I really have no idea what to do with that mode.

I'm still figuring out the Field modes too very sharp and clean did a great iron seperation test (crossed spikes over a gold ring) with F2 a while back.  Had it out today in iron but there was just nothing there to determine how well it cancelled iron inthe field.  Lot of info in that single tone VCO it would be great in the salt.   It's my beach go to.

cjc

On 9/10/2018 at 11:21 PM, midalake said:

Bringing back up for clarification by the OP.......

Have you tried this block in salt water? Would you be worried it would also reject small gold chains?

#2 If I am digging anything with a good repeatable signal say 7 plus, why should I run more than one tone? Just pick one tone and run the "tone volume" all the way up?

Also you call it "coil control" maybe sweep speed? My opinion as a beach hunter: I do not like how sensitive this detector is to sweep speed. 

Dave 

 

 

I try to avoid the multi tones--the lows are just to weak underwater.  This is why I like 2 Tone "20".   When I say coil control I mean for target testing not acquisition.

cjc

On 9/11/2018 at 2:50 PM, Bob'ke said:

Bought the book from Amazon.com and am presently reading it for the 2nd time. Won't be the last time. ?

If you have an Equinox and like reading the posts on this forum you'll like reading/owning this book! ?

For me the most important point I took away from this book is (so far), that the Equinox is a "high gain" detector and therefore it reacts and handles differently from my other (more of an "entry level") detector. I just have to stop comparing the Equinox to the other detector, start from zero and take the Equinox out and detect, detect, detect...read the book again....and detect, detect, detect, etc. ?

Thanks for writing the book Clive.

Greetings to all.

Thanks for your kindfeedback Bob'ke. That is a key point and a ton of things follow from there.  I see videos of guys not even using the cross sweep and going from one bit of junk to the next.  It's not just the shape that we are tryingto determine--it's the consistency of the relationship between target and ground.  This tells us if theres any rust or corrosion in the target.  That's not to say that 4 way responses are the only good ones--but being able to make these simple determinations will give your accuracy a quantum boost.  Then if you prefer--dig everything.  Good Luck Clive

Some great info.  For sure a bit more fidelity to be able to run the best features of B1, B2 and G2 would be nice but there it is.  The testing Im doing is to run B2 in its rawest form--2 Tone.  This makes up for the low weighting a bit so you have a stable deep, LOUD (key point--hate the weak 5 and 50 sounds-- underwater forget it) salt mode.  Maybe it's just were I hunt but B1 was just bad--a "bittyness" to the signal that is very hard to work with.  The "problem set" is to stablize it--depends how optimistic you are about smalll chains and earrings but a slightly higher bottom TB works.  Gold 2 is an amazing thing.  Also the machine at it's rawest--it's a showcase for just how well this machine processes.   Where you have steel diverse alloys or something too big it stutters--great ID--kind of like higher standard of what a clean signal consists of.  Kind of tells you the density of an object in a way that no other machine does. Great tool--now I go straight to the junk in fresh water.   The tradeoff I make is to run up at Disc 6+.  Ya ya, but it's worth it to have this nice high foil cut off--chains and earrings be dammed.  (never found a no pendant chain  in 40 years)  This is also where the stabiltiy comes from--targets are assigned on one side or the other.  (1 or 2 might accomplish the same thing) If I were somewere high end B2 would be the mode of choice anyhow as G2 would never tune for salt.   Also try running B2 in 2 Tone with the 2 at Pitch 20--seems to be a good range for hearing gold. 

cjc

On 8/19/2018 at 10:01 PM, NAGANT said:

Had it with me today at a river swimming beach.  Practiced  interrogating signals and dug more clad and junk jewelry then Bottle caps and pull tabs, had fun.

...WHERE were you on the night of....?   ...sorry.

Glad to see  that the book has helped your accuracy--thats the main purpose of it. 

cjc

...guess we can take that as a no....

cjc

On 9/6/2018 at 11:13 AM, midalake said:

Have you tried this block in salt water? Would you be worried it would also reject small gold chains?

#2 If I am digging anything with a good repeatable signal say 7 plus, why should I run more than one tone? Just pick one tone and run the "tone volume" all the way up?

Also you call it "coil control" maybe sweep speed? My opinion as a beach hunter: I do not like how sensitive this detector is to sweep speed. 

Dave 

The reject block is more of a learner method just to be able to settle the machine down so as to be able to hear it in it's rawest form--rejecting iron and alloys.   In any event this dig a million foils in the hope of getting a small (no pendant) chain or earring is over rated.  

I've never seen a detctor where coil control was more important for accuracy.  It helps you sort though those high gain sound offs--very important area of skill building.  The idea is to identify targets by how they realate to the ground's signal--how well they are  connected to it.  Anything with steel or iron will lack symetry or ID (a lot) differently on the cross sweep.  

cjc

The first thing I would point to is coil control.  With this detector--coil control is the activator of all the other target info coming in.  When you learn to use the coil to perform tests (sweep direction, length, speed) the results will be there in the audio and on the meter.  Try some hunting in G2 with a low block rejected (0 to 6) to settle the audio down.  Test each signal on the cross sweep and note how caps and anything odd shaped will "stutter" and hesitate.  Smooth responses will be clean metals (not alloys or anything with iron / steel content like caps).  Using this method has upped my beach accuracy by miles and at the most heavily hunted site in Canada--I now look for the areas with the most junk to pick though using this method.  (Take the volume down a bit--it's sharp and loud). This is also a good way to learn to listen for responses with extension in the tone.  The Equinox's gold field quality noise reduction and iron rejection are amazing tools with some practice. 

Two Tone in Beach 2 is interesting to experiment with as well.  B1 is a lot harder to stabilize but it can be done--certainly in fresh water but in salt there is this "bittyness" to the tone--its harder to listen for extension in a good response.   B2 has great stability in salt.  Not crazy on how the low tones stand out in 5 or 50 but if you run a Tone Selection of 20 (T2 in Two Tone) gold sounds off really well and carries better-- deeper--try it!   Kind of like the Jays Gold Program middle tone for the CTX--perfect. You can also custom tune the Tone break (both models) to up above the seabed ground noises. Running 2 Tone is also a better deep water method --louder all around. 

Good Luck Detecting clive

On 8/11/2018 at 3:24 PM, phrunt said:

Do you know if your warranty starts all over again for the control pod when you get the new control pod? It seems in some countries it does, others it doesn't due to local laws.  Hopefully it does ?

 

Good bit of info--thanks.

clive

2 hours ago, BeachHunter said:

I have Clive’s book and as always a great read. Highly recommended.

Thanks kindly, Beach Hunter.  So where's the loot??

cjc

Thanks again for finding the time to read my book, Steve.  Hope you are finding the time to hunt as well.  Kind Regards,

clive

On 2/21/2018 at 8:55 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

This illustrates part of the issue. This new video compares modes on a nickel and dime and a quick look would seem to confirm that there is a difference in the Park and Field modes. However, those differences can be attributed to the setup as much as any possible underlying difference in the processing.

The vast majority of the videos I see are by people who still really don’t understand the detector fully (I am not referring to this one specifically). As I have tried to point out it is imperative that each mode is individually ground balanced. Yet if anyone is doing that in their comparative videos they are not saying so. There are numerous fine differences in Detect Speed and Iron Bias that are not being accounted for. The blocking or modification of target id 1 and 2 alone can change the results of nail board tests. I could make a full time job of pointing out issues with videos but I do not have the time, and as much as I would be trying to be helpful I would be seen as another unappreciative critic, so I am not going there.

Anyway, this video shows results with default settings. To truly try and see if the Park and Field modes are equivalent the settings in both modes would have to be identical.

One thing I learned from all this is that target id 1 and 2 are not only blocked by default in Field 2 but have had the tone modified to sound as ferrous. So in Park 2 you just have to unblock them to find tiny gold. In Field 2 you have to unblock them and be sure the tone is set back to non-ferrous. I have been accidently sidestepping that issue by always going to 2 tones when prospecting (the default in Field 2 is a modified 50 tone). That all being the case it may be easier for me to use Park 2 as my alternative prospecting mode to eliminate a step in setup, assuming they might be the same otherwise.

Yes, I also have things to learn still . Equinox can be deceptively simple but as you really dig into the settings it is rather more complex than one imagines initially.

 

On 2/21/2018 at 1:02 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

Interesting as I just made a similar but slightly different observation here. Like everything the ground calls the shots but I have observed the strength of Beach mode on silver myself.

Good point about the Ground Balancing, Steve.  It's a basic fact that different fq's apprehend the ground differently and separate targets from it differently.  Any cross comparisions would be skewed.   I'll say it--kind of like the "caps" thing--too may hackers laying out the half baked as fact. cjc

that flowable silacone sealant is a great product ive recomended it a lot.  got a nice jumper to dodge the proprietary plug thing and was not thrilled by the volume of my CTX yellows on the EQ.  HR's are better but back when i got mine they had terrible structural issues.--wish something was available--audio is so critical with this machine.

cjc

A machine with the sophistication of the Equinox is much more readily able to identify iron by how it responds on the cross-sweep. This is because iron is more like the ground than a non-ferrous target. You could say that it is fully “grounded.” Many larger iron objects will sound off well from the standpoint of the first target sweep but when you check them on the cross sweep they lack consistency. In effect the detector is reading an interaction between ground and metal--rather than just metal. This interaction is not stable or “complete” in the same way as a solid, consistent target like a coin or ring. You could say that the detector is reading a changing “process.” With a high gain detector like the Equinox, understanding this one simple bit of theory will save a lot of digging. 
Another basic method to get a better idea if a signal is iron is to simply compare how loud it is with the depth meter reading. A blaring response that reads full depth is probably something larger than a coin or ring. 
As well, where you see a response that seems to change location or needs to be “coaxed” to give a response--suspect iron. In that some of the Equinox’s more complex iron muting features (Iron bias) can reduce depth, having a good command of these inherent, checkable differences between an iron signal and a non-ferrous one can help your accuracy a lot. 
Picture Caption:
Basic signal quality differences: ferrous (L) versus non-ferrous (R). This is how the well-known bottle cap ”tell” method of removing the coil to produce a low tone works. Whereas a good target is either heard or not, a cap has a surrounding field that produces a low tone.
From: “The Minelab Equinox: From Beginner to Advanced”
By Clive James Clynick

Thanks Elf--really looking this one over given the price.  

cjc

On 4/18/2018 at 10:38 AM, Chase Goldman said:

Clive 

Good explanation of iron bias but I wish you spent a little more text addressing the potential tradeoff of utilizing iron bias as the quoted phrase below is rather vague.

Specifically, empirical testing by Equinox users here, has shown that even low levels of iron bias tends to preclude unmasking of desirable non-ferrous targets hiding amongst thick iron.  So there is not just a depth impact to using iron bias as implied in your write-up, there is a target separation impact as well.  Your statement above does not contradict these test results but it also doesn't provide a clear caution to the reader of specific situations where applying iron bias might not be optimal.  The "no free lunch" axiom I apply to any sophisticated filter features MD manufacturers incorporate into their detectors like the "Silencer" filter setting on the Deus almost always applies.  After all, ML apparently shied away from iron bias default settings other than zero for most modes. 

Now that I am getting used to the Equinox target audio clues, I now like to run it at or near the default for a given mode, and that means I am mostly running it at 0 even under circumstances where the iron is spread out.

Appreciate your feedback as you are obviously very knowledgeable on the topic based on the book excerpts you have graciously provided for our perusal.

Thanks.

That's true, Chase it's not much of a warning especially when you compare any bias setting to something that's wide open in the iron like an Impact.  I do give a more direct warning about using the pre-set of "6" in either of the Beach modes and suggest looking for other ways to accomplish stability or in iron definition.  It's a "cheat" like Auto Sens on the CTX--no substitute for good audio recognition and target testing.  

Thanks for your feedback first I've had!  Want a comp?  Shoot over your address. 

regards

clive

On 4/16/2018 at 6:48 AM, SittingElf said:

Thanks for posting this. I'm convinced...and ordered!

Hope you like it--Im going to send one to Steve and see what he thinks as well.

Regards,

clive

Book Excerpt: "Iron Bias" 
(Settings X 6 + long press, “+” or “-“ to adjust, “Detect” to exit).
The need for an Iron Bias setting on the Equinox derives from the operating characteristic of a high gain detector. While the Equinox’s sophisticated electronics act to inhibit inconsistent responses like iron, at the same time because there is so much Sensitivity going down into the ground there is still the possibility of iron falseing taking place. This involves iron objects that have very unusual properties such as a spike nail upended, or something large enough to mimic a non-ferrous response by overwhelming the machine’s circuits and coming in at the top of the discriminate range (termed “wraparound”) While these are usually recognisable by target testing (cross sweep for one), at the same time there is a need for a control that regulates the level of consistency in a target which is assigned the audio (rougher or broken tone) of iron. This feature is also useful to relic hunters or anyone wanting to hunt for coins in dense iron. You have the choice of trying to knock the iron out by way of the Equinox’s software, or opening up the machine to get cleaner, fuller responses on iron in order to hear what’s mixed in with it. 
In effect, “Iron Bias” is a filter. Whereas the ground’s signal represents a large, unstable, response, a good target can be seen as a small, narrow and consistent response. “Iron Bias acts to mediate the “line” where this distinction is made. This doesn’t just include iron—but any object which contains multiple metals. So “Iron Bias” can be used to change responses from bottlecaps, corroded coins—anything that’s not “clean” metal such as silver, copper aluminum or gold. It’s worth noting though that with some targets that are comprised of both iron and non-ferrous metal, “Iron Bias” may act to “clean up” the signal—making it sound better. This is similar to the way that many rusted targets will sound better after several passes of a BBS detector (Sovereign / Excalibur) coil. The machine’s built-in bias is removing the inconsistent parts of the signal. Conversely, a lower setting can emphasise the alloying of an unwanted target--effectively “breaking it up.” 
It’s worth noting though that because all metal in the ground “mixes” with it’s signal (corroded or not), using high levels of “Iron Bias” acts to reduce detection of all targets. 
Understanding how “Iron Bias” works is an important lesson in how detectors work. In effect, they don’t just “punch down” though the ground to detect a metal target. Instead, what a detector does is to assess both the ground and any metal that’s in it and then separate the two—based upon this consistent / inconsistent scale. This is the scale that an “Iron Bias” control operates on. 
“Iron Bias” can also be used a tool to moderate the effects of “black sand” by changing the machine’s response to the large, scattered inconsistent response it produces and promoting any “clean” metal targets that are mixed in with it. It also has the potential to stabilize the detector in “black sand” by reducing the Sensitivity to this erratic signal. This may require a higher or lower setting depending on the conditions.
When many hunters want to get the maximum depth with the Equinox, they take the “Iron Bias” right down to “1” or “2.” With this setting it’s generally agreed that frequent “Ground Balancing” of the machine helps to reduce the response to iron. 
The “trade-off” here though is that you will still be “fooled” by more iron false signals. 
From: "The Minelab Equinox: From Beginner to Advanced" 
by Clive James Clynick

Thanks for a great forum Steve!

cjc

note that the stock 5 tone ( B2 = 20)lets all parts of a screw cap ring in together.  if you were to take that cut off up to 22 or 24 they are more likely to break up.  50 tone also adds more detail to the alloys in a screw cap.  in the stock 5 tones they do sound pretty good though. cjc

It's great to see others at the exact same stage of testing this machine--and reaching the same conclusions. For sure A/M is the way to go--in Park 2, 50 tones has a nice fluid transition that tells you a lot--more than disc actually in that you already have the (A/M) bad news (corrosion,  no symmetry, doesn't stand out against the background) right there.  Very nice way to run the Eq.  Really alerts to the deep low conductors well that way--gotta experiment with the speed and "gap" next.  Hope to hell it does that in salt although those modes  with the low weighting seem kind of muted by comparison to P2.  Anything with rust is much more obvious this way.  cjc

A legend and an inspiration to us all who swing a detector. 

cjc

This is a concern of mine too in that all of  the wide / narrow / size / shape info that all-metal provides seems to be harder to come by with the Eq.  PP does the funny muting thing when you get in to close, and a/m via the horseshoe is just a blank version  of the current search.  Maybe a toned down Gold mode User set-up is the way to go.  With no all metal mode my skill set is crippled. 

cjc

..compared to 1989 it is.  the "stick beeper" days...its the spikes that would have read then...

We're in a digital world of wonders here...

cjc

what's next?