Bill (S. CA)

Love this, George. What is that one detector called the Pirate?

Also love the old Garretts with the square arm cuff.  Looked cool but what a dumb design (at least for me).

Let's see the closet dwellers, floor standers and under bed hiders next!

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

Sorry Bill, my apologies, I don't watch many videos at all so I was taken by surprise in the few seconds I watched.  I'm sure I had bad swing technique often, especially as the day gets hot and I get lazy, its only if I find a good target my swing technique improves later in the day so I'm glad nobody follows me around with a camera 🙂

I've been thinking more about this new Garrett, they make a good quality build of detectors so that seems to come naturally to them, and the Apex demonstrated a modern design I prefer over the mobile phone pod style others are taking up.  I like the nice big screen, other detectors from some manufacturers are so difficult to navigate and complicated due to trying to cram too much onto a smaller limited display screen.  A design like the Apex with its large screen allows for easy configuration of settings so I hope they stick with this with their SMF especially if they're adding a lot of configuration options and not copy the others, a point of difference and if you rowed up a few machines and asked someone with no idea about metal detecting which is the most expensive out of a few SMF models, they may possibly pick the Apex as it just looks expensive with that design.

No problem, I know you didn't mean any offense.  I just wanted to put a lid on commentary about a YouTube deal before it got out of hand, that's all. 

As to the detector itself, I am with you on the Garrett screen being a much better design than all of the Equinox-based pods.  The Apex and Axiom screens are super easy to read and navigate, plus for me they are more intuitive.  My Legend menu structure makes my head hurt with all of the sub-menus.  Personally, even though my Apex really isn't a match for a Legend or Equinox or Deus II (except at a saltwater beach where it will hold its own against all 3 to a point), I still reach for it first just because I like using it.  It is light, well-balanced and has that great display.  Its expanded TID does help with nickels inland but in the trash it takes some work. 

If I were to guess, I would think that Garrett will use the AT moniker and apply it to a new top of the line detector to compete with the high end multi's.  I would agree with several posters that the Apex now is positioned at a weird price point due to the battle between Minelab and Nokta with their super inexpensive mid-range detectors.  Sort of like the Vanquish.  I don't know where Garrett will go with it but as we all know they do keep older detector models active for years as opposed to discontinuing them. 

Thanks to everyone for contributing to this post.

Bill

I'm so glad that my post prompted a lot of discussion about the upcoming Garrett detector.  For me personally, I just want to wait and see what they come up with.  The Axiom proved that they can make a great machine if they put their minds to it.

I would like to ask one favor.  This discussion was about the detector and was not a forum for discussing Dawn or her detecting methods.  Like many Youtubers, she is a bit of an entertainer.  But she is a pretty good hunter and finds a lot of interesting stuff.  If she had a bad day swinging her coil too high, just leave it alone, okay?  I doubt if there is anyone on this forum who hasn't done the same thing.

Not looking for commentary here.  Just keep the discussion to the new detector please.

Digger Dawn, one of the YouTubers who is actually watchable, dropped a little hint in her latest video.  She says a new Garrett detector is coming this year.  She mentions it at 14:40 in the video.

Maybe it is the flagship machine we have all been waiting for...

It is an excellent coil.  I have a Reaper coil but prefer the Viper.  It is easier to swing and gets great depth and very good coverage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZZm9Z8wC4g

The man doesn't just know science.  He finds really cool stuff.  The video is well worth watching.

Bill

Marvelous post, Chase.  That 1923 SLQ is gorgeous!

Interesting that you feel the Deus II is the machine to go with.  I concur.  Not that I own one yet (scraping together the $$).  But it doesn't matter where I go, inland or the beach, the Deus II beats me.  I'm pretty good with my Equinox 800 and Legend and they are wonderful detectors.   But neither one can beat a Deus II.  Right now I use the Legend which for my money does beat the 800 inland due to its expanded TID range.  On the beach it is about the same.  I do go to my Axiom every once in a while at the beach.

BTW, I'm not looking to start a debate.  Just commenting based on my experience in the field. 

Thanks again for sharing your finds with us, Chase.

14 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Why do VLF guys have to drop in on every PI thread to declare it’s not what they would use? Don’t. Nobody is telling you that you should. You obviously have never been in a place where your VLF gets 50% depth and calls anything past that as ferrous. If SMF was so great every gold prospector would be swinging one but fact is they are lackluster second cousins for performance compared to a good PI. The OP was asking for advice on a PI, not about anyone’s opinion on whether a PI is worth using or not.

Steve's point is a very valid one. I like to think of my PI as a situational machine.  Yeah, most of the time I use a multi on the beach.  But there are times where the multi struggles (heavy black sand for instance) and then I go to the PI and it shines.  Here's an example for you.  When I was field testing the Axiom for Western and Eastern Treasures, I took it to Zuma Beach on the S. CA coast.  There were a bunch of us out there, easily a half dozen other guys. Everyone but me was swinging a Deus II or Equinox.  They were all struggling with their detectors due to the heavy black sand.  All I did with the Axiom was basically turn it on.  Right in the middle of an area they had all gridded I pulled out a honking very old silver ring. 

If you don't use a PI, so be it.  But don't judge what you don't understand, okay? 

If you don't need the detector to be waterproof you might consider the Axiom.  It performs very well in the wet salt.  I had a TDI Beach Hunter and the Axiom beats it hands down. 

Bill

Nice of Jeff to bring this post back to life.

I think that revolutionary detectors vary by the era.  You can make a case for many machines over the years, a number of which have been mentioned here.  For me, I think the ultimate game changer was the Minelab Sovereign.  It changed the industry as far as I am concerned.  BBS opened up inland sites and allowed us to hunt salt water beaches without having to use PI's or gold machines on the dry.  To this day I have never found more good stuff then I did in the early days of my owning my Sovereign XS.

18 hours ago, King-Of-Bling said:

In regards to the European vs you 2 (known) US testers and them giving the greenlight on prototypes and you seeing major problems : Do you think some of their results vs yours could be the result of locations at all ? Specifically , soil and sand , mineralization , them being across the pond ? Or maybe it didn't matter and they were more biased , idk. 

Not back in the day. Shills have always been around, clowns who want free stuff for being yes men.  In my case, the detectors i was testing were so bad that it didn't matter where you hunted.  They just didn't work until actual testing was conducted. 

Jeff,

I'm shocked. Why on earth would you do a test with actual dirt like you would find when you are really hunting?  Don't you know that you can only do testing with multiple levels of wood blocks on your patio?  Boy, rookie mistake buddy.  You need to watch more YouTube videos and get educated.

Bill

Garrett customer service is run like it should be.  I've never had a bad experience with them.

Here's what really hurts.  I'm 5' 6".  Yeah, proportionality was not a consideration when I came off of the assembly line.

9 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Like many have said, why didn’t Minelab slightly expand the target ID range of the Equinox 600/800 to give the low to mid conductor range a few more IDs to prevent so many common targets from piling up on target IDs 11, 12, 13 and 14 (at least that’s what happens in the USA). Fixing the shaft quality, redesigning the hand grip and control box and improving the lower shaft to 11” coil connection were fantastic. 

How could Minelab be so far off the mark with what I was told (by a Minelab Equinox design engineer) was a conscious decision to take the Equinox in a “new” direction. What a screw up direction is all I can say as far as the original Equinox’s vaunted target ID stability and versatility.

The only big improvement for me has been my recovering a ton of US nickels and a few gold rings that I had walked over using the 800 because I just missed them due to target ID 11, 12, 13, 14 fatigue burnout at some really aluminum trash filled park sites.

Jeff, I think the answer is the same as always.  Shill testers.  Yes men who want free stuff.  Years ago when I worked with Minelab they would hand me units and tell me that their testers had all signed off on them.  In several cases the prototypes were disasters.  I honestly don't know who they use anymore but back then almost all of their testers were in Europe.  In the U.S. there we only two of us.  

I'm afraid now that Minelab (and Nokta for that matter) are locked into using YouTube idiots to test their products.  They are the new version of shill testers.  The last straight up tester I am aware of was Steve Herschbach on the Axiom.  

If Minelab had any brains they would sign you to an NDA and get you involved. Pfrunt, too.  That is, if you guys wanted to be.  Testing is a lot of work and I don't know if I would do it nowadays.  I spent hours on the phone with engineers in Australia, downloaded dozens of fixes, spent days in the field and wrote up reports after work at night.  All for no pay.   A the end I was allowed to keep one prototype.  The reason I did it was to get a good machine to use (I bought one) and also to do our hobby right so to speak.  

To sum up, I'm bummed like you that the target ID scale isn't better.  That's why I won't buy a 900.  I love my 800 but I really don't use it much in the parks because of the 11 -14 range issue you mention.  I tried to use my Apex instead but it's a tough go in the trash. Actually, right now the Legend is my favorite park detector.   Its TID range is excellent and the numbers are stable.  The bummer is that my Legend is going in for service (won't charge fully) so I am out of options.  I wish I could afford a Deus II but I just can't justify that kind of money.  Gee, maybe I should charge up my old Etrac...if I can lift it!

On 11/8/2023 at 5:12 AM, George Kinsey said:

It has iron discrimination and the holster will turn the pointer off when inserted, and on when removed. Very affordable price. Will post my results later. Thanks, George.

So George, what were your results?

Bill

3 hours ago, George Kinsey said:

More information coming today.

What exactly is this new gadget of yours, George?  

5 hours ago, Sinclair said:

I sold my 15"..

Pros:
- it is very sensitive to even small targets (I credit that to MF)
- it covers more ground
- it goes a little bit deeper

Cons:
- it is noticeably heavier, even with CF shaft
- you have to extend the shaft, otherwise it picks up your shoes. Extending the shaft makes the weight feel even worse
- you have to lower the recovery speed and walk a little bit slower
- it's harder to get the coil parallel on uneven ground
- unusable in the water due to drag

While I really liked the coil, the Cons outweighed the Pros. It felt like I've covered as much ground with the 11" in the same time, but with less fatigue. I detect a lot of dry sand, which is often uneven - doesn't make fun with the 15". It really works well on flat beaches (after a storm, or if you have tides).

Good point about having to extend the shaft.  I had forgotten that I had done that because I have size 11.5 feet.  It was annoying as heck clipping the end of the coil with my toes when I was walking.    I also agree that despite its larger footprint, I feel like I cover just as much ground with the 11" and I'm not blown out when I'm done hunting with it like with the 15".

3 hours ago, midalake said:

Hi Bill

I have had the 15" for at least three seasons. I agree with you no extra depth and outstanding coverage. The 15" is very sensitive to small items and always surprises me.  

As for fatigue?  Most of my beach time is 3-4 hours. I do not notice too much more fatigue. Have to tried to counter-weight?  Many said it works wonders?  Me, I am not adding extra weight to my set-up. 

I think there are days for the 11" and others for the 15".  I only use that 15" about 20% of the time when large waves cause more wet sand to search.

As for which detector? I cannot stress enough to bring them both and bury a gold ring at 12-14 inches.  Get you wife, buddy, son, whoever it takes to get that testing done.  Good hunting!!! 

Hey Midalake.  I can always count on you for a reply my friend.  I am with you on weight.  More weight is more weight, you know?

I have tried multiple tests using your single beep/double beep method and despite my best efforts I just can't get my Equinox to beat a Deus II on my beaches.  Maybe it's the beaches, more than likely it's me, but I just can't beat it on deep coins or gold.  Mind you this is on wild testing only.  I have a buddy who was an 800 user for years, maybe the best guy with it on the beaches I've ever seen.  He finally caved and went with the Deus II and says it does go deeper.  He only used single tone all metal Beach 2 with his 800.  

Don't get me wrong, I still try it every time I take out my Equinox.  Maybe I'll bury a ring next time like you suggested and my buddy try to read it with his Deus II.  In the meantime, if you ever get a camera on your testing with those machines I'll bet it would go viral!

Take care.

Bill

I think it was roughly 5 years ago that Minelab introduced the 15" coil for the Equinox.  I'm curious if any of you folks have any long term observations on how you like/don't like the coil vs. the 11".

I'll share mine briefly.  I like the coil but as a beach hunter I have not realized any additional depth vs. the 11".  Yes, it covers more area, but I think that is all relative.  For me the biggest drawback is fatigue.  Even though it only weighs a little over a quarter pound more than the stock coil, there is a fatigue factor if you hunt for many hours. Generally I hunt 4 - 5 hours and I suffer with the big coil, especially if I'm not stopping to dig many targets.  With the 11" I'm tired but not gassed.

To be very honest, I am considering switching to my Legend full time for beach hunting.  I love my Equinox and know it really well, but the Legend with the new lightweight shaft, arm cuff and coil, is super light.  Plus it seems to do well at my beaches.  I can't say that it is better or worse than my Equinox but its performance to me is similar.  I'd compare signals to another Equinox but no one out here on the West Coast uses them anymore.  Everybody I hunt with uses a Deus II.

Let me know what you think.  If the majority says stay with the big coil and the Equinox I'll stop whining and do it.  But I will be soliciting donations for my chiropractor...

Bill in Los Angeles

Chris,

An interesting series of questions you have raised here.  I wish I could address them all but I'm at work and don't want to get fired (HA!).  I will give you a few bullet point responses:

• Here on the West Coast, no one uses BBS or FBS detectors on the beach anymore.  We've all had them and done well with them but the Equinox changed the game. The older detectors do not have the same depth and sensitivity to small gold like the newer MF's.  Plus they are just too darn heavy.
• The Deus II rules the beaches out here.  You see an occasional Manticore, Equinox or Legend.  Maybe a PI in the hands of some geezer who wants to argue about how PI's will beat anything.  We have all tried GB'ing and none of us have found it to make a difference.  With that being said, if you use a Garrett Apex you will need to GB in the water or else it will false a lot.
• Personally I hunt with an Equinox 800 and a Legend.  I don't have a Deus II yet because I have two children in school, an ex-wife and 7 cats.  Yeah, I'm dumb.  But I have never had a falsing issue with either of my detectors on wet sand or in the surf unless I run them too hot.  This, I find, is still a common mistake among detectorists I meet up with.  They are scared to death about missing anything so they automatically run their sensitivity at max. 

Thanks for positing this interesting topic.

Bill

No commentary here, I stopped watching this guy a long time ago.  But a curious decision by XP nonetheless:

I think an updated full collection picture is in order, George.  Be sure to use a wide angle lens.

Bill

Hey Jeff, pretty cool of you to put up this video. You kind of have a knack for it.  Hope you can do more if you can survive out there!

Bill

For those of you who are fans of older "beep and dig" detectors (like Tesoros, for example) and love hunting with them, I'll bet you there is one aspect of them that you hate.

Corded headphones.

Remember those lovely accessories?  How they would be yanked off of your head if you set your detector down wrong.  Or get tangled on a bush, or caught on your belt or a million other things.  But back in the "olden times" you really had no other option except to run with no headphones and use the speaker.  That also had its drawbacks. Things like background noise, or children following you like the Pied Piper every time you got a hit. 

Yes, wireless has spoiled us all.

I found myself confronted by this corded headphone issue recently.  The GPAA Magazine, who I freelance for, had approached me to write an article on older beep and dig detectors.  Having just picked up a mint Tesoro Sidewinder from a good friend, the timing was perfect so I agreed to write it (it will be coming to the magazine in January if you are a subscriber).  The only drawback for me was going back to corded headphones.  Oh well, I thought, if it has to be it has to be.  I remember thinking at the time that I wish there was another option.

In rummaging through my box of headphones, looking for a pair to use, I discovered that very option I was seeking.  A box i had long forgotten about containing The Garrett Z-Lynk Wireless System headphones and module.  Now that Garrett builds Z-Lynk into their new detectors, i had totally forgotten about this product.  I pulled out the box and wondered if this would solve my corded headphone issue.

Thankfully it did.  I'll be brief here because I could write an entire article on just this Z-Lynk system.  By connecting the WT-1 wireless transmitter to my Tesoro, I could now use the MS-3 headphones and be totally wireless.  Suddenly my 25+ year old detector was refreshed with wireless technology!  And here is an added bonus: the Garrett Pro Pointer AT pairs with the system as well!

If you have any older detector that requires corded headphones, toss them in the trash and get the Garrett Z-Lynk Wireless System.  Next to using an old beep and dig detector it's the best old school/new technology decision you can make.

Bill

https://garrett.com/accessories/z-lynk-wireless-accessories/ms3-headphone-propointer-at