Chase Goldman

2 hours ago, Edsped said:

That volume test is great thanks Chase ?

One thing to consider though is that the loudest 2 use speakers and the quietest 2 use piezos. I know the ml 600 headphones aren’t intended for water use but the LS PELSO are and when using speakers under water they will be very quiet, I know this because I have the ones from Hungary which were on eBay and look identical (I can see the speaker on Kellyco pics)

The hungarian headphones are so quiet underwater and get quieter the deeper you go, piezos aren’t bothered by water pressures so I’m guessing the 2 piezo based headphones will be much better underwater.

Ed,

Thanks.  I agree with you and understand what you are saying.  I don't dive or intentionally dunk with the Equinox when water hunting preferring bay shallows and surf so I just want a pair that will survive a few unintentional dunkings without corroding out or failing outright.  The fact is I spend 99% of my time hunting with my head above water and the surf and other ambient beach noise make that type of hunting practically impossible with the piezo's, especially with the poor ambient sound isolation of the ML Koss phones.  When I am underwater I am concentrating on getting back out of the water rather than listening to tones, lol.  I can see where these would not be good for snorkeling or scuba with something like an Excal, but that is not what I do.  The Pelsos perform well enough that they would be my preferred foul weather phones too since the wireless phones are not weather resistant.

Here are some screenshots from a sound meter app I used on my phone. My phone has mics on both ends of the phone so I just placed it between the earcup on each phone set. I waved a gold wedding band, penny, and dime across the coil (with pauses in between) and recorded the resulting audio graph. The phones tested were: 

The ML wired phones that came with the 600

The LS.Pelso WP Phones from Kellyco

The ML WP Phones

Custom modified GG Amphibians

Results: LS.Pelso's best volume, sound quality, sound isolation, and comfort.

In terms of volume the rankings were: LS.Pelso, ML 600 Phones, ML WP Phones, and the GG Amphibians bringing up the rear at about 15-20 db below the Pelsos on average.

dB numbers on the graph are not calibrated and should just be used for the purpose of side-by-side comparison under identical conditions.

Steve, the only potential issue I see with your lower shaft plan is you knowing what the ID manufacturing variation is on the ML middle shaft which can negate all the effort you put into the precise dimensions you are using for the lower shafts you are making for others.

7 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

might have to see if I could accompany them sometime.

You should definitely do this if you can.  Archeological metal detecting is great fun.

On 8/24/2018 at 1:44 AM, Sasquatch said:

This is exactly what would happen, I like my 800 though and don't want to give it up!

Your wife wont know the difference betwern the two detectors if you get a 600.  Seems more cost effective than two 800's to me and the fewer settings would be less confusing to a newbie.

Ted,

I think Detector Pro is finally listening to the complaints across their entire H/P product line.  They were at or near the top in after market MD headphones for awhile with some excellent headsets.  But perhaps relied too heavily on customer brand loyalty and reputation and maybe also got complacent in design, cheap part selection, and build quality, as a result.  Ultimately got lapped by some stiff competition including improved OEM headphone products by the larger detector manufacturers.  They may be waking up to the fact that they can't "phone" it in anymore (pardon the pun) or they are not going to survive in the MD marketplace without going back to their superior design roots.  Competition is a good thing.

They apparently have an issue with tolerances between the various telescoping shaft components from their shaft component suppliers.  It will be hit or miss as to whether your new shipped parts will fare any better (not sure they inspect and attempt to match them up before they ship the replacements based on anecdotal reports from users who have taken ML up on the warranty replacement parts) but the good news is that you can always have them try again at their expense, if you are unlucky enough to have the issue a second time around. 

The cam lock design is subject to wear over time so at some point we will all have to do something like Alluminati has done or go with a third party shaft design.

Alaska has plenty of history, my friend.  Lots of Russian exploration, conflicts with Native Americans, fur trapping/trading and hunting before "Seward's Folly" (the 1867 Alaskan Territory Purchase) and the Turn of the Century Gold Rush.

See this story on a Russian shipwreck and tale of survival near Sitka and the Archeologists who used metal detecting technology to rediscover and study the survivor's encampment.  I met one of the team members at an Archeological metal detecting expedition at James Madison's restored estate in Virginia.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp%3Fcntn_id%3D136012&ved=2ahUKEwi-mMvkqITdAhVKiqwKHQvgAfgQFjADegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw1QqAjz751fG9v509lS2H-k

Do some research and you might be surprised at what might be near your doorstep besides prospecting claims.  No guarantees, but you never know what historic events predates Alaska as a US Territory and State.

The 600 is the obvious recommendation. 

Makes a great backup to the 800 and a great primary water machine so you don't have to subject the 800 to that type of abuse. 

Even though the Infinium is discontinued, you can probably still find one new in box somewhere, and as a Pulse Induction machine it is perfect for one who likes to dig deep and dig it all...   I have an ATX (the Infinium's younger cousin), it's deep, it's heavy (Infinium is a little lighter), it can get wet, and I much prefer using my Equinox in the water.  Digging deep bobby pins gets old after awhile, not sure if she would enjoy that...

The 600 is the ticket and much less expensive.  Best value of ANYHING at or within plus a couple hundred dollars of its price point (except the 800, lol).

I too have a set for my ATX and found that the volume control has a narrow "sweet spot" where the volume spikes up to make them useable.  But yeah, the volume control on passive headphones is nothing more than a variable resistor (rheostat) attenuator that merely lowers the volume from the theoretical maximum which occurs at the minimum resistance setting of the rheostat.

I had "generic" GG Amphibians that are sold without the volume control and without a connector.  I had Tony Eisenhower mod them to add the Equinox connector.  But the volume was so low, he added his own Tony E drivers, i.e., the ones he uses in his custom made WP phones.  That brought the volume level up to usable levels, perhaps just slightly higher than the ML accessory WP phones sold for the Equinox.

My understanding in talking to some experts who have been working with Detector Pro on other forthcoming projects, is that Detector Pro has recognized the volume shortcomings in the previous GG Amphibian incarnations and has made some design improvements.  Suggest that unless you want to be the Guinea Pig, hold off on these until performance feedback comes in on The New Equinox compatible Amphibians.

Finally, Kellyco appears to have an exclusive deal with a company ("LS.Pelso") to sell a generic brand of yellow cupped WP headphones compatible with Equinox and at $129 they are not a bad deal as an alternative to the ML Equinox WP phones with perhaps slightly better performance and sound isolation based on my experience testing them out.

All of the above will survive a good periodic dunking (which is all I care about) but I usually keep my head above water and go only waist deep or so and have not had the opportunity to check out their audio performance while wet after being submerged (i.e., I haven't stepped into a hole or gotten knocked down yet while wearing them, lol.  I know, I know - then I'm not really trying sayeth you hard core water hunters - ha!) 

HTH

4 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I believe this is backwards.

I was wondering the same thing for all the reasons you cited.  The thumbnail descriptions in the manual seem reversed for the conditions discussed.

I think you are hooked!  I casually beach hunted and Park hunted for clad and the occasional ring (mostly junk) for years until I discovered relic hunting and realized I was in the middle of a colonial and civil war historical artifact region.  Changed my whole outlook on the hobby.  There are so many aspects to this hobby that can keep it fresh and exciting.  I like variety and have tried several different types of metal detecting.  Would like to try some gold prospecting next.

Simon,

Since the Equinox does not noticeably over-modulate on large or shallow targets like the T2 does, those aluminum beer and soda cans do tend to ring up with good sounding audio and id numbers.  That is where I have had some success with pinpoint mode.  Provided the offending target is not too deep, I have been able to differentiate pop cans from good coin targets by sizing up the target in pinpoint mode.  Since it is a non-motion pitch mode it becomes relatively easy to ascertain that you have something too large to be a coin or jewelry target under the coil unless its profile is small because of its orientation or depth.  This technique works well for large falsing iron targets as well in farm fields (e.g. broken plow blades).  Gold mode also works similarly well in thick iron junk situations, but since it is a motion mode (you need to swing the coil over the target to get the VCO variable pitch intensity audio) it is not as definitive as pinpoint mode.  I am a dig it all proponent if you have perpetual site access because digging the junk and getting it out of the way can reveal masked keepers underneath and if you have the time and the site can withstand the digging, dig it all and cover every inch with your coil if you can. However, no sense digging up your own yard or another's pristine landscaping unnecessarily and this method can save on pulling too many junk target plugs or can save some time if you only have limited time at a site.  HTH.

Propjob,

Repeated use and understanding what the audio is telling you by using your brain to associate the audio with the target builds your audio "muscle memory" such that you stop consciously thinking about what the audio is telling you and you just start picturing the probable target in the ground (the audio painting that virtual picture in your brain).  It is important to dig trash as well as keepers for this to take hold.  Don't just listen to silver dimes in your test garden (though it is a good way to reinforce what a good target sounds like, as Mark suggested), but you need to get out there with some real world swing hours and dig all the targets until you can start calling the target before you dig it.  When you can rely on the audio as the primary means of target ID with the visual ID as backup/confirmation, then you will up your keeper to trash ratio significantly..

1 hour ago, Alluminati said:

The second is the wireless headphones and wireless module that come with the 800. Both are very nice items and pretty expensive to buy them separately.

Thanks for reminding me.  The 600 is great because just like the 800 it uses a universal industry standard in Bluetooth, which means that if you do want to go wireless, you are not required to just go with the ML wireless headphones.  There are several low latency (APTX LL) spec'd BT headphones available out there for a lot less than the ML phones including the exact clone of the ML phones, the Miccus SR71's that are less than half the cost of the equivalent ML accessory phones.  You can also find some even less expensive APTX LL BT headphones if you do your research (the info resides on this forum) and shop around.  HTH

A couple of comments.

First, only you can determine whether the 600 is all you need.  I can say that the answer for you is "probably" but I will point out a couple of things based on what you stated your objectives where.

• Note that the 800 has one mode (Field 2) where the default recovery speed of 7 exceeds the capability of the 600.  I am not sure this is a big deal at all.  But it is what it is.  Two modes Park 1 and Beach 1 have 800 defaults that do not match up with the 600 equivalent defaults as far as recovery speed is concerned (Park 1 3 vs. 5 and Beach 1 2 vs. 6).  Again, I do not think this matters much.
• I typically use 50 tones so I do not use the no-ferrous tone custom breakpoints at all (50 tone breakpoints are fixed) other than when I use 5 tones in default mode.  You also have 2 tone mode besides 5 tones.
• Don't sell the user profile button short.  It is very convenient and it is basically the only thing I miss when I am using my 600 (which is a dedicated salt beach machine and backup to my 800) because I like to instantly switch between modes when interrogating certain targets rather than toggling through the whole menu.
• Gold mode is not just for prospecting, I like to use it in thick iron situations because the VCO audio gives me a different take on what is going on underground, and helps to better identify large profile targets than the under modulated tone modes and sometimes help to separate targets better than the tone modes.
• If you goal is to really hit highly trashy sites hard, then the extra recovery speed is helpful because at that point you are not going so much for depth but to separate those keeper shallow targets that everyone else has missed with their slower recovery machines.  Will the 600 at recovery speed 3 do the trick?  Yeah, probably for 90%+  of the situations it will be sufficient, so the 600 is should do you just fine.  It is really impossible to tell what difference those extra recovery speed clicks will do for your specific detecting situations, quite frankly.  I think the 6 inch coil is more important for what you are trying to do than the extra recovery speed clicks.
• Iron Bias - I really don't care much for this filter so the difference between the two units is immaterial to me.

Hope this helps.  HH

6 hours ago, Dan(NM) said:

Thank you.

 

Park 1...2-tones...1st break -9 thru 11 pitch set to 1... recovery 3 ....Iron bias 0 ...sens 18....  Second and 3rd passes I ran Field 2, same settings.  Minelab received my 800 yesterday, I haven't heard when they will be shipping it back.

Dan - thanks for the info.  Doesn't look like the reduced number and range of the recovery speed settings or tone settings on the 600 held you back at all.  Good to know.  I have a 600 as a dedicated "salt water" machine on an Anderson rod and it backs up my 800.  I like that combo.

Nice finds, esp. the quantity of coins and, of course, the Walker.  What search mode were you using and recovery speed?  When are you supposed to get your 800 back from ML?

7 hours ago, BeachSwinger said:

Can someone point me in the right direction to contact Tony to mod a pair of GG amphibians for me?! Thanks in advance!

It's in the upload notes on the you tube video as: tony@idigbeaches.com.  Send him an email.  He modified a set of GG Amphibians I had laying around and collecting dust.  He added the screw-in Equinox connecter and upgraded the GG speakers to put louder WP drivers in the headset.  They work great and he does quality work.

I guess that could apply to the coil too, in principle.  I agree that you should avoid getting the coil connector wet though both the coil connector plug and the  coil jack on the detector should both be internally sealed against moisture intrusion it is best not to let debris get into the connector so I would avoid taking it apart while rinsing off the detector.  There should be no need to physically disconnect the lower shaft as long as you loosen it an slide it while rinsing.  The headphone jack is internally sealed against moisture intrusion into the control head, though water can collect in the jack cavity so it is recommended that it be rinsed and dried as stated above.

Anyway, good questions and info.

I also noticed in the Equinox Detector Care section of the manual  that Minelab advises against putting any kind of petroleum-based lubricant on the o-ring seals (including the battery) and states that applying grease or lubricant of any kind on the o-ring seals is unnecessary. 

"• O-ring lubricant or grease is not required on waterproof seals.

• Do not use a petroleum based O-ring grease as it is likely to damage the waterproof seals."

FWIW This was a topic of back and forth discussion here:

17 minutes ago, Alluminati said:

The manual recommends doing your cleaning/rinsing before you disconnect the coil, mainly to keep debris out of the connector.

Even though the detector is waterproof while disconnected, I would still keep the coil side of the plug  dry on the inside.

 

Where does it say that you rinse/clean before disconnecting the coil?  While I agree with that practice, I cannot find in the manual where that is explicitly recommended.  All I found were:

"•  If water gets into the headphone socket, it must be dried carefully a with a warm air dryer in order to prevent corrosion and/or false headphone connection detection."

"•  Hose the detector with clean water after use on the beach (wading or submersion)."

"Shaft twist-lock seizes 1.  Separate the shafts and turn the twist lock back and forth several times to clear any dirt build-up, then thoroughly rinse in clean water before putting back together."

Killing it.  Nice saves.

Thanks.  No, I did not write the Equinox book that is currently out there.  That is Clive Clynick.  I would need at least a year with Equinox before I could attempt something like that.  I am working on a several page "Introduction to the Equinox", though, that I will post here in the coming weeks when I think it is ready.

9 hours ago, Rich (Utah) said:

Unearth,

I’m impressed with the ability of the 800 to sort through dense park trash. 

The 800 audio can certainly pound the brain unless you do something about the sounds of those unwanted targets. Early on I stumbled on this YouTube video by Dirtfishin. 

I took the ideas and adapted them for my trashy park hunting. It got me started on the right track of taking advantage of the equinox features of changing tone and volumes of various target ID’s to allow me to hunt the trashed areas without getting a headache. I can change tones and volumes on the equinox so that unwanted targets are a pleasant low freq tone that’s also very low in volume, then make the ID’s of wanted targets stand out with higher tones and increased audio.

Good targets literally jump out at you and stop you in your tracks to investigate.

If there is little trash, and my brain isn’t getting pounded, I can go back to Park 2 with multi-tones which I prefer for general hunting and coinshooting .

good luck

Rich (Utah)

 

 

Just for clarity - if you are working in 50 tones you cannot do the above as the breaks and volumes are set other than the delta between the iron and non-ferrous tones and the ferrous to non-ferrous break.  If you want to do this in a mode that defaults to 50 tones (like Park 2 or Field 2), then the first thing you need to do is shift to 5 tones then follow the instructions above.  Other than that, I do not customize tones as I am a 50-tones guy so I am the wrong person to ask on the details to how the above gets done, but the video lays it out pretty well.

3 hours ago, dewcon4414 said:

I think hes talking about Ill shop not PA.   To my knowledge they arent doing repairs there on the Nox.   Aussie land is still gathering information on repair issues.

I thought so too, that's why I asked.  I know the PA guys and they were not doing any Equinox work last I checked.  Dan pretty much confirmed that was the case, EQX's under warranty still going to Napier.  I think Tom was mistaken regarding his 600.  I know PA is repairing the other ML detectors, though.