Chase Goldman

I hear you but a lot of folks are just stuck because they paid up front, have to go through the hassle of cancelling, and will have to wait 7 - 10 days before the money ends up back on their card or in the bank.  So they sit and wait.

Dan(NM) said: "I think your right about the backlog being more less filled..."

Tell that to folks still on the Kellyco waiting list.  Yes it still exists.     They are just now filling orders from March.

I got Tony to make me a pair of Frankenphones based on GG amphibians that were unterminated.  He added a WP Equinox connector plug to them and noticed the dB was pretty low so he put his speakers into the GG's and that raised the dB level considerably.  I also now have a pair of ML WP phones for the Equinox and Tony's are still louder and have better external sound isolation.   Great work by Tony, highly recommended.

2 hours ago, staffydog33 said:

I just turn on all metal and pump the coil. Tells me straight away if it's a bottlecap.

So bottlecaps are easy again.  Good news, because back in June it was a dig everything machine...glad we got that sorted out.  I still get fooled by the occasional bottle cap even with the above tricks.  After getting warmed up to digging a few early in a detecting session, then the "softer" audio starts to also clue me in as well.  But it is definitely not going to be a 100% solution no matter what.

On 7/6/2018 at 11:37 AM, staffydog33 said:

I got lots of gold here that rings in the 12-19 range....so i would be losing a LOT of gold with that discrimination.

 

Matt

True but I think he was solely hunting for copper metal.

I have not noticed tracking slowing the machine down and I find it hard to believe that considering what it has to do to process the multi IQ signal.  But may do some tests to confirm.  Tracking will not work well if there is not mineralization or salinity changes for it to grab onto.  So even if you have high mineralization, as long as your GB reference is steady there is no need for tracking.  GB is site specific.  Asking users across the globe what they prefer regarding GB defaults needs to be put into perspective with detailed descriptions of the user's local soil conditions.  I detect in mid-Atlantic region of the US - just about every soil condition you can imagine is encountered here because two continental plates smashed together to form the Appalachians.  So I can run with the defaults, in some places, get away with an Auto GB in others, and HAVE to run tracking in others.  Also GB is search profile dependent and you will get different GB numbers ON THE SAME PATCH OF GROUND depending on the search profile mode you have selected when ground balancing.

Just trust what the GB numbers AND YOUR EARS are telling you.  If they deviate significantly from 0, you should GB.  If you are hearing a lot of ground noise in ALL METAL (high minus numbers on the display) then you should ground balance.  The key to Equinox is getting it to run quiet without OVERLY silencing the machine by applying too much filtering (especially iron bias) or too little sensitivity.  Less is more when it comes to Equinox as the default settings are pretty good, but DO adjust them as necessary, in small increments, if you find the machine is chatty due to EMI or ground noise.

5 hours ago, Andy2640 said:

Many thanks, you have really given me a wake up call and pointed things out that i didnt consider.  Its particularly interesting what you said about the nature of elliptical coils.  In essence,  it is a 12 inch coil with more ground coverage ? .  So in short ,this new larger coil will give me a very small increase in depth, but the main thing is that it will cover more ground.   Got it!

The thing about the elliptical is it gives you the larger coil ground coverage but at less weight than a 15" round coil, so that is the primary advantage with a slight depth compromise.  15" round gives you perhaps additional depth, but not so much that it is worth the extra weight.  Another way to look at it is giving your 12" coil 15" ground coverage without all the weight.  Small elliptical coils give you the advantage of being able to swing side-to-side in tight spots with only a slight sacrifice in depth vs. it's "round" cousin with a diameter the same as the elliptical long axis.  Also some folks have the mistaken impression that the elliptical shape gives you more "separation".  But target separation on a DD coil is determined by the width of the active coil area (which is the center spine of the coil whether it is round or elliptical) ignoring coil edge effects which typically only come into play with surface or very shallow targets.

14 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Long story short the reason I personally consider large coils is for better ground coverage with extra depth, if any, a bonus.

Exactly!  It's a 15" (round) ground coverage coil with 12" (round) coil depth. (i.e., about the same as the 11" round, depth wise).  Great explanation.

5 hours ago, foreverteachable said:

Great thread! I have not learned how to disc or notch out numbers with the 600 yet so have been using stock settings in park 2 and field 2 with either recovery speed of one or 2 since 3 seems to give me more random signals that often  end up as iron so 2 works for me and I switch to horseshoe if in heavy trash and it locks onto targets just as well as recovery speed of 3. I also use 5 tones . I am having so much fun just digging 12-13 and sweet signals that bounce between 18-20 or higher that I have not messed around much with other numbers and my pull tab collection has not increased much at all. I am hitting my first old field that has been mowed in an area dating back to early 1700's tomorrow so I will dig all non ferrous signals and see how it goes. I am interested to see if it works better then my buddy's idx Pro which is the large cent King when it comes to searching old fields.

Don't feel that you have to notch or play with custom tone breaks to be successful with the Equinox.  Sounds like you are doing just fine.

I have had the Equinox for 4 months and have not disc'd or notched anything above ferrous + 2 nor changed any tone breaks or tone pitch from their defaults.  Thought I was going to customize the non-ferrous segments and all that for cherry picking etc., but 50 tones clicked for me pretty quickly and using the simple tools provided for target interrogation (primarily ALL METAL, Pinpoint, and quick switching to an alternate program in user profile) are about all I use now.  I'll still dig pull tabs.  There really is no magic bullet for them because I have found their VDI to be variable and unless they are bent, they are "round enough" to give a very coin like tone.  But bottle caps and large aluminum (e.g., crushed cans) are rare now.  And I pretty much can choose to dig big ferrous if in a probable ferrous relic situation (cannon balls, bayonets, knives, barrel bands - which are telltales of potential deep non-ferrous goodies) and can easily recognize small ferrous (nails).  I prefer to run with no iron bias except when lazy and the odds of missing a masked target are low (e.g., when I feel like just running with stock Park 1 for casual coin shooting). 

Notching/custom tone breaks are a personal preference thing (kind of like running with threshold) and are only "necessary" if you want to cherry pick certain targets as Happa is doing with success or if that is your preferred style of hunting coming from another machine, or can't afford to dig trash due to site time constraints or don't want to dig that many holes due to landscaping concerns.  You will leave stuff in the ground, regardless.  I personally prefer to let my brain do the discriminating with the audio because the multiple variables that affect what VDI finally gets processed keep me from picking precise notch regions with the confidence that I won't cancel out a desirable target.  That's just me.  Oh, I will definitely leave stuff in the ground too.  Not many of us can truly say that our coil sweep discipline is such that it is covering every square mm of ground, believe me.

On 7/4/2018 at 4:47 PM, Happa54 said:

If you look at my pic, I have 18+ opened up so I don't miss the silver war niks and injuns.

I need to have numbers not blurry pics through a case.  Lol.  Frankly, even a clear pic wouldn't help because I am not going to count tic marks, too lazy.  But point taken.  Like I said, though, the Wars can be anywhere (even 15, 16, 17), and most of the gold I've found was 10 +/- so you take your chances with notch.  But I think you know that and have decided to play the odds.  Nickels are fun to go after.  Glad you found my advice useful and I had to read it twice myself.    HH

If you want to focus on mid conductors (gold, hammered silver, and relics) and small stuff go with Field 2.  Go with Field 1 if you are looking for high conductors (silver) and deeply buried large objects or caches.  Note that Field 1 is two-tone so adjust the tone number to your preference, if needed.

On 7/3/2018 at 8:44 AM, Andy2640 said:

For a site with iron on every sweep, what iron bias would you suggest?  Iron bias is the only thing that puzzles me with the nox, even after reading numerous articles etc.

If you are sure it is iron with every sweep  (can be confirmed in pinpoint mode) and not ground feedback (i.e., -7 to -9 VDIs when in All Metal which is telling you should ground balance), then you are in a bed of nails situation and I would advise against running any iron bias whatsoever because it will tend to keep you from hearing masked non-ferrous targets.

1 hour ago, midalake said:

Turn it around?  They are going to junk it. Saltwater in the case. IN FACT. If it was mine I would make a small mark on the case and make sure it does not come back.

 

Dave 

I was referring to the warranty replacement turnaround, I never said anything about a repair.  Believe me, I know these are throwaway units after failure.  

29 minutes ago, dewcon4414 said:

I dont know why anyone who has ever used the yellow would think these would be different....... they just changed the plug.   They had low volume on the CTX as well.   BUT...... id have to say they are dive ready/sealed very well.   As a water guy..... im kind of used to having to change out a shaft and phones...... so the price of this machine REALLY helped.   Bummer on the machine...... second one like this....... just wonder where the leak is....... it must be the seal used for the screen?   

Well because I have now seen, first hand, two sets of ML WP phones that have registered 45 on a db meter and 2 sets that have registered 75 on the db meter from two different friends that have the Equinox WP phones.  So yeah, that tells me something is amiss with ML WP phone quality.  I do not dispute that overall ML has a wired phone volume  problem with the Equinox, but that seems to be a function of weak amplifier design or impedance matching issues combined with subpar overall ML water phones design as you stated.  But there are definitely defective ML WP phone batches being delivered out there to go along generally poor design ML WP phones.  Just saying.

2 hours ago, Thegoldenone said:

Stock shaft.  I've never even took the Pod off to look at it...

I hope your right on the head phones!

 

Yeah, the weeping problem was with the stock shaft.

1 hour ago, Thegoldenone said:

Already got an RMA... I will put it in the mail on Thursday! But what a horrible time to go down right on 4th of July weekend!

Doesn't really help now and I know a lot of folks can't afford to do this, but for that very reason, I purchased a 600 as a backup to my 800 and as a dedicated water machine because salt water hunting is just tough on detectors.  The price of the 600 with my dealer's loyal customer discount enabled be to get both detectors for less than I would pay for a single Deus.  So I thought it was worth it.  For salt beach hunting the 600 is just fine, and I can use the 800 for more challenging relic hunting situations where the extra features and wireless accessories are beneficial.  If the 600 goes down vecause of a water problem then I can go to the 800 as backup.  I really have no suitable "other" detector for wet salt beach hunting. 

19 minutes ago, Nuke em said:

The biggest problem with what your saying is that the UK is not the US's 51st state . We have £ not $ and most prices for our stuff are near enough the same price but for the different currency sign . 

I have bought a few adaptors from Amazon / Ebay and already 1 has failed . Its a pity the socket on the Nox wasn't 1/4in instead of 1/8in .

Also we dont have any Military discounts but do have VAT "Value Added Tax" which is an EU thing . Sad day when we joined that bunch of c... . And getting out will be a bit painful so prices may even go higher here after we leave . 

 

Understand, the price you were quoting was very high so I thought you were referring to the ML accessory, LOL, not to a generic adapter.  My apologies for the prices, taxes, inferior product quality, incompatible accessories, and euro zone headaches, etc., and didn't in any way mean to suggest the UK should be a 51st state especially since we are ironically doing our annual celebration of our little colonial rebellion today on this side of the pond  while you cheer your football team's victory over Colombia.  Cheers and hope you get some beach hunting in this morning.

You got good advice above.  You always take chances when you "play the odds" but I think this whole coin on edge thing is just way overblown. 

I recommend that if you DO get a one way chirp you use one additional tool in the Equinox toolbox.  You never actually said what program you were using, but assuming you were using Park or Field 1 to optimize for high conductors (the modes that seem to "suffer" the most from the coin-on-edge tests, then simply switch from your main search profile (e.g., Park 1) to a mode that has a different conductivity bias (e.g., Park 2 or Field 2).  The "2" modes have been shown to hit harder on the on-edge targets so if you still get a one-way chirp after pivoting, going to All Metal, and after switching to an alternate mode, you have even more information to make that dig/no-dig decision.  The easy way to set this up is to save an "opposite" program in your user profile slot and then just select your "main" search program from the detect menu.  For example, set up Park 2 with your preferred user settings then save it into the user profile slot.  Do your field searching with Park 1 and then if you get an iffy one-way, you can instantly switch between Park 1 and Park 2 (in user profile) or vice versa if you prefer to hunt in Park 2 (or Field 2).   Since each of the modes sort of emulate a different detector through the "magic" of Multi IQ, switching modes on the fly like that is almost like asking your hunting partner with a different detector to come over and swing their coil over your mystery target. 

If you are going to use this "switch modes" target interrogation method I recommended, you need to also make sure you noise cancel and ground balance (if necessary) the alternate search profile BEFORE you first use it during your detecting session, so it is ready to go on demand.  Not only does the Equinox act like different detectors when the search profiles are switched, each search profile/mode needs to be treated like a separate detector when it comes to noise cancelling and ground balancing because these adjustments are dependent upon and unique to the MultiIQ profile of each mode.

In the mean time, regardless, I agree the best way to learn what the machine is telling you is to dig it all until you get comfortable playing those odds.  Some never get comfortable and go by the "when in doubt, dig it out" rule. And will only leave targets they are 100% convinced are junk in the ground.  (I have never been 100% convinced of anything when it comes to metal detecting, lol).

I only have a couple of comments:  First, I think its ok and to hear the iron too if you can tolerate it because that tells you a lot about the site, whether you need to do a ground balance (lots of "false" iron (as opposed to iron falsing) variable -7 to -9 vdi's on a sweep with no targets indicates excessive ground feedback and is telling you to GB the machine - I just do that regardless because it only takes a a few seconds, but that is one way to know you need to), and also whether you are swinging your coil over a non-ferrous target or a mixed ferrous/non-ferrous target indicative of rusted junk like a bottle cap.  I will say that the way ML appears to be running the disc filtering on this machine that discing out the iron segment -9 to 0 does not appear to have any adverse effect on detection depth of non-ferrous targets and neither does notching out segments.  In fact, I suspect the ML seamlessly incorporated disc and notch to have no depth effect on the non-filtered targets (on some machines if you run disc too high, then you will affect depth and the notch filters are typically just audio filters - ML does not differentiate between disc and notch which means there must be some post-processing done that does not affect "raw" detection depth for non-filtered targets).  Iron bias on the other hand is a definitive tradeoff.  You can use it to cut down on iron falsing (false high vid's and tones or wraparound on round iron or nail heads or big iron) but the drawback is that you will definitely lose unmasking capability to find keeper non-ferrous in thick iron, so I really have backed off on using iron bias other than in "safe" situations in low ferrous dense sites where I am cherry picking coins (not because I "like" iron bias under those situations but because i am generally just running Park 1 for the high conductors and am too lazy to change the defaults).  That leads me to my next comment...but first a comment on your notching out from 14 to the low 20's.  I get it but am adverse to notching anything just because I have seen keepers pop out of the ground that I never expected based solely on the VDI.  So live by the notch, die by the notch.  If you just can't stand digging the aluminum trash, etc. then of course play the odds, but discing out that range may keep you from digging the odd war nickel which has an unpredictable VDI due to variations in composition, thin tokens, obviously a number of gold targets (again depending on composition), etc.  If you can live with that or if the pull tabs are just unbearable, then go for it otherwise you just may be missing out on the targets I described.

Great program IF you goal is to snag nickels and "easy pickings" silver, as you have stated, but I would run with the exact same settings in Park 1 if you want to occasionally tip the scales to deep silver, and you will still hit nickels but not as deep as your Field 2 program.  Also experiment with the same settings that you have programmed into Field 2 on Park 2, if you haven't already,  to see what you think in terms of nickel snagging capability.  For some reason (I mainly relic hunt vs. coin shoot with the "2" modes) I find Park 2 to sound "harsher" on non-ferrous targets and like to hunt in Field 2 but I wonder what the performance difference is between the two when everything in the user settings is set up the same and ponder whether the harsher sound just means Park 2 is hitting harder than Field 2 on the mid-conductors and therefore might be a little deeper, but I have not run any testing to confirm.  In any event, I did not see any reason to switch to Park 2, but have always wondered what the difference is, Multi IQ wise.

Anyway, if its nickels you want and the occasional gold jewelry, and of course silver targets of opportunity, your program appears to be a winner but you may leave some of the less common keepers in the ground (e.g., war nickels) based on your aggressive notching.

HTH, HH.

Bummer.  Hope they turn it around quickly.  Was it mounted on the stock shaft or did you transfer it to an Anderson or something like that?  It shouldn't matter but I have seen reports of water intrusion into the battery cavity area through the mounting notch hole on the stock shaft (plus the issue of water/sand collecting in the lower shaft as there is no accommodation for drainage) which shouldn't matter because the battery and internals are still sealed by double o-rings, but who knows what happens with corrosive salt water just sitting there in the cavity eating away at stuff where it can't be easily flushed without removing the control pod after each detecting session.  Seems something might deteriorate over time.

Re: the headphones, I have seen people receive several that are only putting out 45db and others that are putting out closer to 75 - 80db, so I think ML may have a QC issue with their h/P supplier.  You might want to look into that with ML and ask for an exchange as part of your warranty repair.

2 hours ago, Nuke em said:

It limits choice of headphones if you dont want to pay over £34 for an adaptor cable . 

You don't have to use the ML adapter cable to adapt 1/4" plugs to the WM08, most any 1/8 to 1/4" pigtail phono adapter (<$5US) will work even with the recessed plug on the WM08.

21 hours ago, Ridge Runner said:

Steve

Full price 899.00. Military discount 764.00

Less         259.00.                                259.00

Equal.       640.00.                               505.00

We haven’t subtracted the Bluetooth headphones that also came with the Equinox 800 .

Minelab can ask any price they want but that don’t make it’s worth that. You may have sold it for 37.00 more that what they cost Minelab.

Chuck

PS That’s business 

 

Actually, I still think the 800 detector itself is WORTH more than the asking price based on its performance compared to other detectors, ridiculous WM08 module prices not withstanding. 

Another (headache inducing) way to look at this is if you subtracted the WM08 and BT headphone prices (Total about $400) from the MAP price of the 800 that would be about $150 LESS than the 600.  Yeah, that makes sense.

It is getting harder to find coins an d jewelry.  That's why I focus more on the hunt than the kill (find). Beach hunting for me is relaxation.  Of course I may chase a storm and look for cuts, but since I have limited time at "real" beaches, it is hard to be consistently successful.  However, if it becomes work for the sole pursuit of valuable targets vs. the occasional serendipitous surprise find, then I will take stock in whether I am in it for the joy and relaxation of detecting or the self-imposed stress of producing "results".  I get it it that for many doing the hard work necessary to be repeatedly successful at producing valuable finds, itself can bring joy and satisfaction, that's just not my objective.  I like those surprise finds, valuable or not that make you say to yourself, "how the heck did that get here?"  I do, however, enjoy the detective work that comes with researching the history of sites associated with relic hunting.

Nice features and light weight but only APTX not APTX LL (Low Latency) so the lag may not be tolerable to some users.

Great saves. Believe me this is different than any other Minelab detector that came before it.  None had this level of recovery speed, and in trashy areas, that makes a big difference.  Since you couldn't get your hands on one before Feb of this year, you really have not been missing out.  You picked a great time to get back in.

Well, that sucks.  While you send them back for replacement, you can plug some wired phones into the WM08 module and remain untethered from the detector, at least.

For future reference, the number is on the quick start guide included in the box.

630-401-8150

2 hours ago, Dubious said:

After Minelab has had a chance to incorporate bug fixes into the units leaving its assembly line,

Not clear when this is going to happen, though.  ML has been dutifully collecting data on known bugs such as the User Profile settings reset issue, but has also been mum on any timetable for a factory-based or user-released firmware update.  Since there do not appear to be any fatal performance-based flaws out there other than what can be characterized as annoyances (from ML's perspective, not necessarily the end users' perspectives), and taking in consideration a thorough and robust firmware test period so ML can assure the "fixes" solve the issues and don't introduce other unintended consequences, it could be fully several months or a year or more before a firmware update is released for production units and/or for user installation.