palzynski

Thanks El Nino77

No I do not have the vanquish 340 , I have just the 540 pro pack. I currently have 3 machines that I can compare together:

- a vanquish 540 pro pack , so with the V12 and V8 coils

- an equinox 800 with the 11inches coil

- a deus with an 9 inches white HF coil

After 4 hours of testing the 540 , I have the feeling that the V12 9X12 coil is really a great coil because it does even a little better than the equinox 11 coil, very deep and  accurate on the field . It looks like it confirms the results of Simon(Phrunt) on his football area in NZ.  

Comparing Equinox 11 and vanquish 340 I do not know , I suppose that the V10 coil is a little less powerful than the V12 ,  so perhaps the Equinox could be a little better than the 340 .

One more important thing , all I have said above applies only to low/moderated iron trashed areas. I have not yet tested the 540 on a very high iron trashed area that we have in Europe ( old/very old sites ). In such a situation the Deus will still be the best I think because it is  ultra fast and ultra reactive, and very few detectors can equal the Deus on such areas,.  

Also take care of yourself El Nino , this corona rubbish can be everywhere ...

Yes I confirm the Vanquish is an excellent detector .  I received my Vanquish 540 pro pack 10 days ago. For info I am an official tester for 2 shops in France and I have a very stict testing procedure, combining static tests and field tests. I have spent around 4 hours on the field with it up to now .  I will give more details and pics in another post later  but I already have a good idea of the machine and you will find below a comparison between the Vanquish 540 V12 coil and the Equinox 800 11inches coil.

Important I on only detect inland , I am not a beachcomber , this test only applies for inland detecting .

1 ) The Vanquish plus :

- Static depth test on a big copper coin 10g , 3cm diameter at 12inches depth in moderated mineralized ground:

   The Vanquish 540 V12 is better than the Equinox 800 11coil. The sound is definitely sharper . There is not an enormous difference, say 1inch depth difference , but there is definitely a difference. I use the Jewellery mode.

- the Vanquish telescopic shaft is far better than the Nox shaft , you can adjust it very accurately on the field. It is much more compact in a rucksack. Also the S Vanquis shape is more ergonomic and it feels lighter than the Nox on the field, although the weight of the machines are similar.

- The Vanquish is much easier to use than the Nox , just a few buttons thats all. I find the Nox too complex and I do not like the side buttons of the nox which tend to auto activate when the Nox is in a rucksak. On the Vanquish I simply swich on the Jewellry mode , sensiitivity to max , thats all.  Also the noise cancel is automatic. On the nox you must go in the menu for noise cancel too complex ….

-  The Vanquish V12 elliptical coil is much easier to pinpoint than the 11equinox coil , I very rarely use a pinpointer with it.

2 ) The vanquish cons :

- a fear I have with the Vanquish is that the electronic card is not protected against humidity , no IP protection , this could be a pb during wet atmospheric conditions . I will test this as soon as I can .

- no lithium battery , just basic AAs batteries for power. A lithium battery would have been lighter and more reliable then the AAs. 

3 ) Conclusion :

An entry level machines better than their top level ones , only Minelab can do that … :-)

More seriously I think that Minelab has learnt a lot with the Nox and they improved a lot of things that can now be found on the Vanquish.

I understand now why Simon ( Phrunt ) is so happy with his Vanquish in NZ… :-)

Again I will send an other post with pics and a more details as soon as possible

Apart from this everybody is at home over here in France with the corona , so I have to stop the tests for the moment , I hope it will go better in a few weeks  ...

GB_amateur , I am not saying that the simplex is a bad machine ,  look my detailed test at https://www.metaux-detection.fr/nos-tests,fr,3,65.cfm ( sorry it is in French only ,and you will see I have graded it 14/20 ) . I am just saying that the Simplex main drawback is a weight /balance below the average .  May be for some persons the weight is not an issue but for some others it is an important criteria so it is important for me to inform potential future users . In my tests I just trying to tell the truth, this for each machine whatever the brand  . Actually it seems that people appreciate this  , because these online tests are quite popular and often read over here. I know there are many  tests tending to hide ( or not tell ) the drawbacks of the detectors , always giving a high grade for all the detectors . This is not my case I prefer to be frank and tell what I think , the good things and the things that could be improved , even if it sometimes generates  discussions on forums ..😊. 

Btw you will also see in my tests that I have graded the Deus 18/20 , which is normal , in France and Europe the Deus is a best seller  , because it is very well adapted to the European terrains , which are iron trashed ( more than in the US I think ) due to 2000 years of important human presence, also because it is very light and very reliable.

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Chase ,  re read my post , I am not complaining about the Vanquish weight  , but about the Simplex . If you read my online test above ( perhaps Google can translate it in English ) , I explain that the Simplex below average balance  mainly comes from the Simplex  coil weight at  480g . An Equinox 11inches coil is 420g. A Deus 11inches coil is 410g , a Deus HF is 320g , so the Simplex coil weight is not the best  , this is just a fact  .  The Vanquish V12 at 1,3kg is lighter than the Simplex at1,42kg , and I think that the Vanquish weight can be reduced to 1,26kg using lithium AA batteries instead of the Ni MH stock batteries . Also I think that the V12 coil will be lighter than the Simplex 11coil ., giving at the end a quite good balanced machine. This has to be confirmed as I have not yet the Vanquish.

Otherwise , of course I understand that there is a need for detectors at 200 or 300e. When I have started in the hobby, it was in 1998 with a Tesoro Silver Sabre micro max,  it was not a 1500$ machine … 😊

Btw fortunately I have no major health pbs , I just find that swinging a light machine is an important part of the pleasure when practicing this hobby.

I will let you know, if you want ,  my opinion on the Vanquish 540 as soon as I receive it .  

Happy Hunting  to all …

My opinion is that health has no price . If 200$ more can prevent me to have back , arm or shoulder issues in the future, then it is a very good Investment for me . For example a friend of mine has been  using a minelab Advantage with a quite heavy 11inches coil for several years and he finally got a kind of "tennis elbow" ( I am not sure of the exact words in English ... ) .At a moment he could even not prospect any more due to this arm pb . I suggested him to buy a Deus and since he uses the Deus the pb has disappeared ... I have many friends in the detection hobby and several have such kind health issues , because the swinging of a detector is not a symetric motion , especially when using heavy detectors  , and when it is repeated thousands of times.

Otherwise your advice concerning the 11inches deus coil running at 4khz is good  . But using it I will loose a lot of sensitivity on small and very small targets, . Using a Vanquish V12 coil I should keep very good perfos on both big targets AND small targets, even with the big V12 coil. This is the reason why I have ordered a Vanquish 540 . Also the V12 vanquish coil is elliptical so it should perform  better than the round deus 11inches coil in iron trashed areas. To be confirmed of course I have not yet received my Vanquish.

However I am interested by the Vanquish 540 + 12inches coil because it is multifrequency , then it should be better than my Deus HF  on deeply buried big coins 

I am not sure that the cost difference between a Deus/Orx and a Vanquish/Simplex only comes from the electronics micropackaging.
The Xps are designed and assembled in France while the Vanquish/Simplex are assembled in Asia. This may be an important part 
of the cost difference . For info at the moment in France the best price for an Orx is around 600e , there is only 200e difference 
with a Simplex . While the simplex is a good machine the Orx is far better to me in terms of ergonomy and electronics , I am 
not saying this because I am French … 😊
 

I will make a video soon, I detect in the wet sand, a gold ring 18k of 2grs at 25 cm below a bag of 10Kgrs of volcanic sand 325,000 x 10 ^ -6 SI + 1 Kgrs of 100% iron powder in bottle + a few iron nails.

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Alexandre , if you add small bits of nails to your mix , say  5, 10 , 15 , 20, and 30mm length , will the AQ recognize them as ferrous or as good targets ? I ask the question because I think that the conductivity of such bits of nails is close  to a gold ring conductivity. In summay ,the AQ éliminâtes iron powder and nails this is ok , but what about intermediate conductivity targets like bits of nails ? Thanks for your answer 

On 1/30/2020 at 2:07 AM, GB_Amateur said:

'Heavy' is of course a relative term.  1.42 kg (3.13 lb) is not heavy even in 2020.  Yes, there are lighter detectors.  I think the XP Deus still holds the record, but as has been discussed here many times, balance is more important than weight and the ergonomic gold standard Fisher F75 is ~3.5 lb (1.6 kg).

If you meant 'toe heavy', then yes.  But the Simplex would still share that feature with most detectors under 3.5 lb, assuming attached to a moderate sized coil.

 

GB_amateur , the weight of a detector  is not a relative term , a weight can be measured and it gives a very good idea of the ergonomy of a machine ( ease of swinging ). Have you ever tried an XP Deus or Orx ? If not , compare the Deus(0,85kg)/Orx( 0,74g) with a Simplex+ ( 1,4kg ) , you will see that there is a huge difference in ergonomy between them. With an Orx I can spend several hours detecting without any pb. With the Simplex+ I have to use an harness otherwise I am sure to have issues with my back in the coming months ..… All the efforts done by the manufacturers to reduce the weight of their machines are welcome . Fisher for example who will propose their new Impulse AQ at 1,5kg instead 2,4kg for a GPX. 

Hi

I have tested the Simplex+ during several hours for a shop here in France .  It is good machine with some drawbacks however  , it is front heavy 1,42kg and there are no optional coils available other than the big 11inches stock coil.

I have not yet tested the vanquish but it is seems  lighter ( 1,3kg for the 540 , 1,2kg for the 340 )  , 3 coils available. But it is not waterproof  this could be an issue in some situations ( high hygrometry in the air for example )

I think that the Vanquish will be better than the Simplex , but this has to be confirmed , I will inform you on my tests as soon as I have the Vanquish

Yes I agree with you El Nino , static tests on bed tests are important , because you can compare with them different machines in the same conditions : same ground , same target … It is very important to keep the same conditions during the time , and not change the ground  or change the target . If you follow this rule then the depth measurements are very reliable and repeatable . And I finally ended to the conclusion that the VLF performances are very similar whatever the brand is, for a given coil size and frequency . For example 12inches max depth on a big coin in my local low / medium mineralized ground for an 11inches coil at 5 or 8khz.  Another thing I could see with these tests that the VLF detectors do not progress any more in terms of depth performance , this is why I am very interested by the new "AQ" technology.

Of course field tests are essential, Dewcon I agree with you . But be careful with user "feelings" , because this is a very subjective way to analyze the things , and I rather prefer a "scientific" approach by doing measurements , then field tests. For example once a seller asked me to test a detector , he told me that the machine could see a coin at 16inches or more depth. Finally I tested the machine on my "boxes" , and at the end the results were very similar to the other machines , no improvement at all. He was just "psychologically" convinced that his machine was better than the others , but in fact it was not the case ... 

HI , it is always the same with detection measurements , they are very subjective if done on the field with approximate measurement tools. If you want to have an accurate idea of the performance of a machine , you must test it on static dedicated bed tests , with always the same conditions , and not on the field because the conditions ( hygrometry  ) can  change depending on the season. We have discussed on this with El Nino and Alexandre in an other discussion on this forum , see below  . On my own test ( a big box filled up with ground  )  I  think I have an accurate idea of the max depth  of a VLF machine.  I have tested a dozen of  VLF detectors  since several years using always the same bed tests  , and actually the max depth is always the same around 12 inches on a big coin say 10grams using  a 12inches coil size. This test is very reliable and repeatable.

It would be very easy for me to test the AQ on this bed test , I would evaluate  the difference between a VLF machine and the AQ in a few minutes ...

Oh yes I have also a box filled with sand mixed with salt water to reproduce the see beaches conditions , I mean the French ones, not the volcanic sands like in Hawai  ...

So if somebody wants to send me an AQ for measurements , do not hesitate …  😊

On 1/16/2020 at 3:00 PM, EL NINO77 said:

We already know the coil prices  for  Minelab Vanquish..

The small V8 coil is approximately  -104 euros..
The midle V10 coil is approximately -127 euros..
A large V12 coil for about -139 euros ..

Thx for the info El Nino . Actually I have ordered a vanquish 540 plus a V10coil because this medium sized coil is  NOT available for the Nox. On the Nox you have a very small 6 coil and a 11 big coil , and nothing between them , I do not speak about the bigger 15 one which is unusable for what i am doing , coin shooting in often iron trashed soils .  It is strange that ML does not propose an equivalentof the  V10 coil for the NOX , considering that  this intermediate size is a standard for all the other detector manufacturers , look at XP for example ... 

https://www.metaux-detection.fr/xp-orx-disque-circ-22cm-hf,fr,4,TEST-XP-ORX.cfm

And for info , an example of a test done for a French shop / Chateau Numis in Château Thierry North East of France . Here the detector tested is the XP ORX with a 22cm HF coil. The test includes static tests on boxes and field tests at different locations ( In French only sorry ) ...

Hi Rick , if I understood well, you are the owner of an AQ , did you do some tests with it ?

thx , Alain

18inches on a coin with a GPX I did not had these results it was rather 12/13 inches for me , this with the standard 11coil. But I did these tests a long time ago , 10 years ago and perhaps I should redo these tests. Also there is the GPZ that  seems to be more powerful than the GPX but its price is astronomic at 9000euros and no iron disc at all ...

Alexandre , yes it is not simple what you are doing , I thought that this was "just" electronics but it is more than this , so it takes times for the machines to be produced in an industrial way, this is normal. I am looking forward to see the AQ on the field during the coming weeks ....  

Ok 2000 kgs impressive , I have almost broken my back when filling my "little" 50kg or so boxes … 🙂

Otherwise yes I agree , for high mineralization testing  you have to use a big volume of ground. For low mineralization I think my boxes work quite well because the air mineralization is not so far from the low mineralized ground I think …   

I imagine that you will fill  your 4 holes with different levels of mineralization true ?

With these tests you will have a precise and repeteable idea of the performances of your machines . The only thing is the hygrometry of the ground which could change the results depending on the season. I have not this issue with my boxes which are covered with a plastic top all the year 

very interesting discussion , thank you for your post Alexandre ….

Yes Alexandre and Steve , I agree with you , the more it is mineralized the more difficult it is to go deeper
this is what I wanted to say , probably I was not clear in my prev post.

Thank you Steve for the diagram , actually I did some measurements with a GPX4500 a few years ago and I could not get much than
13inches on a big coin in the air , a little less in my low mineralized ground. And you are right Steve this is not
far from a VLF machine which takes it at 12inches

But if we come back with the Manta video we are not talking about 13inches on a coin , but about 20inches which means a 54/100 increasement!
Even if there is a loss due to the mineralization , I would be happy with "only" 16 inches in my moderated mineralized ground,
this with a correct level of iron disc of course.

It looks like the AQ has something special to go so deeply, probably the delay to 7micros however I am
not a specialist.

thx again for your infos Alexandre and Steve 

For info my bed tests here :

The depth performances of a VLF increases while the ground mineralization decreases.  Better explained this way ...

From a video that I saw it was a Manta if I remember well , it was able to detect a 2euros coin at 50cm ( 20inches) in wet sand of a sea beach , this test was done on a beach of Northern France . With a VLF such a coin is taken at max 30cm ( 12inches ) in moderated mineralized ground from my own tests . So you mean that a PI like the AQ could not go deeper than 30cm on such a big coin in moderated mineralized ground ?

I would be quite surprised with this because a VLF works exactly the opposite way, the depth performances of a VLF decreases while the ground mineralization increases. Nevertheless I have no real experience of PI prospectng apart a few tests done years ago with a GPX4500 , you know better than me on this subject …    Thanks for your answer again ...

And below my own bed tests :

2 plastic boxes filled up up with ground , and a coin put under each box, no iron under the boxes  :

- Box 1 ( the closer one on the picture )  :

       . 15cm of dry moderately mineralized ground / a 3grams bronze roman coin put under the box 

- Box2 : 

       . 28cm of dry moderately mineralized ground /a 10grams copper coin ( 10centimes napoleon 3 ) put under the box 

These bed tests are very simple and very reliable, the results are always the same whatever the season. They push the VLF detectors at their limits , either for the  10grams copper coin at 28cm or for the smaller roman 3grams coin at 15/16cm. When I test a new detector these tests help me to find the best settings before going on the field.

The other picture shows the Nokta Simplex+ that I am currently testing with its 28cm coil in action on Box2. As the other machines  , it detects the 10gr copper coin but it is the maximum and it cannot go deeper for this target . And its limit in the 2nd test is 15/16cm ( the small 3gr bronze coin ) like the other VLF machines again .

Just wondering how the AQ would perform on these tests ….

and in dry low/moderated mineralized ground ?

Ok Steve but I think that your initial idea is good , such a detailed chart is very interesting because it is very simple to understand so I think that fisher labs should provide one in the AQ user manual , so that people know exactly what the AQ can do ( or not do ) . This will avoid a lot of misunderstandings and frustations . Also from what I read here the AQ is a new generation machine that works differently from the previous ones and everything must be very well explained. 

BTW unfortunately for me , it looks like the AQ is not adapted for moderated mineralization ground prospecting  ( I am a coin shooter, inland  ) , so I will have to wait the future Fisher RELIC machine , I hope it will come soon because the VLF machines do not evolve any more in terms of depth performance since several years and I need some extra depth    :-) ... 

Thanks for everything , Alain

Steve , back on your diagram page 6 ( the modified version of a Minelab Equinox chart for the AQ), there is something which is not clear to me with this chart :

In summary , this shows shows the PI detection scale like this, from left to right :

1. Small ferrous /     2. AQ detecting range /   3. Iron nails , screws  /  4. large ferrous

I do not understand why there is an "iron gap" between 1.small ferrous  and  3. iron nails, screws.

Why no ferrous in this 2. AQ detection range?

There should be some ferrous of intermediate sizes between 1.small ferrous and 3.iron nails,. And no void as it is indicated in the chart. And at end I think that the AQ will accept some ferrous , just my opinion … 

thanks for your answer , Alain

El Nino your post is very interesting thanks. On my bed tests I have 70% reach , for example on a french 10cent Napoleon 3 10grams copper I can detect it at 40cm in the air , and it reduces to 28cm in the ground, this , it is true for all brands of machines that can run a low frequency under 10khz. For example 5khz or Multi with the equinox. 

So this is my challenge , it is very simple , go deeper than 28/30cm with a 10C Nap3 coin  …. 

Actually I am wondering it the impulse aq can be used on moderated mineralized soils. If this is possible , then an AQ will probably go further that 30cm in the ground . But from what I read in this forum it looks like that the AQ has been designed only for salted beaches  . But wait and see , the real tests will answer to the question ...