phrunt

I hope Jasons onto something, and I'm sure if he's onto it the engineers at Minelab and a few other places have been thinking along those lines too.  

Regardless of the lack of competition for the GPZ, if anything in recent years was going to inspire them into releasing a new GPZ it would have been the birth of X-coils, they don't want them around, a way to get rid of them or severely distrupt them is discontinue the detector and bring out the new model, the crowds generally move onto the new model and of course the new model would be harder to modify for aftermarket coils, yet they didn't do this, and I believe the reason is unless they want a massive flop and a lot of customer backlash the detector has to show reasonable real world improvements to justify people buying it.   If people go out and buy it and it's doing little over their current equipment that's not going to go down well, social media will spread the fact like wildfire and Minelab will be in trouble.

I tend to think any performance gains will be in relation to ground handling which in a way the 6000 lacks with its inability to handle many hot rocks, perhaps some depth can be gained with better ground handling on the GPZ too.  EMI is a tricky one to overcome, as the detector can't tell EMI from signals, maybe it could use processing power to check for patterns and try filter it out, but then you're adding another pretty risky filter.  Better shielding on the detector itself can help, and that's an area Minelab for some reason is a bit lacking, so they could get minor improvements there.

A little bit of an improvement here and there is hardly enough to justify a new model of such a high-priced detector and if the detector is not a hit, a good seller and popular it's going to make it very difficult for them to release another new model in the future, the market for these detectors is shrinking which doesn't help especially investing big money into making new ones when you're already at the top of the market so dominate the sales anyway.

Recently I saw Nenad had a GPZ 19" Coil with carry bag and lower shaft for sale for $650 Aud, so I brought it up for people wanting a cheap coil to turn to an X-coil adapter, in response to that I had another guy say he'll sell his for $500 AUD if anyone wants one, another guy saying he's got two he can sell for $400 each.  All these basically new barely used coils for such cheap prices for a coil that was $1900 AUD not long ago and price reduced to $1500 now, if there was such a big demand from the big deep gold hunters for these larger coils they probably wouldn't be selling for such low prices.  Even with X-coils doing massive coils sales of these very large sizes are low compared to the 15" Concentric, the most popular coil by far.  I don't think releasing a detector geared at big deep gold is going to be a great success for them, some of the really old models with a few modifications seem to be really close to if not at GPZ with large coil level already for that task and the Quad Bikers towing large coils prefer the older models too.

I'm like Steve, I'd love to be completely wrong and they shock us with some wonderful machine, I'd like nothing more than to be proven a fool.  Fingers crossed :)

Thanks Tony, with the European Union basically saying if it's not USB C it doesn't exist and can't be sold in their market, and even forcing Apple to drop the lightling ports to adopt USB C I think a new model will be coming very soon.   It's a good thing, it's stupid to have a zillion charging cables all for USB products, they needed to adopt a standard, and USB C does the job nicely, you can't plug it in the wrong way, and can support the various fast charging standards, and if new ones come in the future, they will work out a way.  Sucks for me, I put USB A power sockets on the walls in my house, now I've got to change them over ?

Worse for someone else I know that put cat5 ethernet all though his walls and sockets in the various rooms, now it's pointless ?  

6 minutes ago, Tony said:

It's officially discontinued but still available at a few places......somewhat expensive but reasonable. $50 Aussie.

https://www.oztorches.com.au/nitecore-f4-power-bank-battery-charger.html

No USB-C connectivity....maybe the next model?

bugger, tried to buy one, they won't ship outside of OZ.

26 minutes ago, Tony said:

Simon,

Is this too wide for the AlgoForce........113mm x 86mm x 27mm

https://www.liteshop.com.au/content/nitecore-f4-flexible-4-bay-charger-and-power-bank/

No, not at all, it would fit without a problem, it would add a bit of weight including batteries but if you were using a bigger coil than the Sadie that would be beneficial as a counter balance.

Nitecore make some really good quality great stuff, I should get one to give it a go.   I like the individual battery power specifications and realistically the coils on the Algo are the heaviest part, so having a bigger battery under your arm cuff is a good thing.

It has square edges too so would lock in place very well, you may have found the perfect complementary product that dealers of the Algo should stock along with some good quality 18650's.  Certainly it is worth investigating and I'll do so.

I'm a little baffled by the anticipation of new ground breaking machines, baby steps are more my mindset, maybe as I'm from an IT background where we hit a wall a long time ago with processing power, instead of faster and better CPU's they put multiple CPU's onto one core, so in detecting terms that's like sending you and a bunch of your buddies out swinging detectors at once.  They hit a wall, CPU's could not get much faster a decade ago, processing power could not improve.  So, instead let's use lots of processors to combine together to increase performance.     You had dual core, hyper threading ? quad core and so on. 

I think with my very limited knowledge of detecting technology and it is very limited this same limitation has been reached, albeit somewhat slowly with the much smaller market and demand for the technology so it wasn't exactly prime picking for big buck's investments.  There are a small handful of people that have dominated detecting technology, if it were a big money maker this wouldn't be the case and likely our "Heroes" now would not be so significant.   

In saying that I'm not under appreciating the investment that has gone into making great detectors and many companies have fallen doing so, I also have an appreciation of how little to expect from new models, and expect at some point all brands will be doing "paint jobs", a key termed by Fisher, one of the bigger early innovators and somewhat of a fallen hero.

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

Absolutely ? I'm just being a propeller head !

Very reasonable thing to do, there are so many dodgy batteries out there, that's why I think dealers that sell the Algoforce should also sell batteries, why not? they can upsell, make a few extra bucks and benefit the end users by giving them batteries that are tried, true and tested.

My Momax is 10,000 and drops to 6000 mAh. Regardless, it's lasting a day, and for a PI a day off a battery of that price is outstanding.

My Momax cost me $36 NZD delivered, $22 USD.   It's so cool being able to get such cheap batteries to run a detector, and I can use it for other stuff like my phone too.

Yep, all good points, my Belin is the only one to get real world testing and its looking fine for at least 2 days detecting, it has done one and a half days along with plenty of bursts of testing so overall it's lasted longer than the two days of detecting hours.

The Momax I've not tested properly yet; I think it will outlast the 6000's battery for a day's detecting though ?

The genuine sort of brands are pretty good, I'd not go near a dodgy one though knowing they won't cut it for the job.

10 hours ago, F350Platinum said:

As long as the detector remote isn't dissipating heat and pressure through the speaker grille it should be fine to do this.

I remember buying a cover for my Equinox, and one day it was really hot out the screen faded. Removing the cover solved the problem.

The covers are like putting a big plastic bag over your head, imagine how hot it would get in there.  Not always the best of idea in a warm climate.  I've got them but only use them if I'm doing something rough that I think I'll do some damage or scratch my screen, normal detecting I'd never use one, it's crazy to do so.

I'm one of the last stragglers hoping for a new CTX, I'd prefer that than a new GPZ with its hyper inflated pricing and my guess is very limited performance increases over the existing unit, mostly ergonomics and coil option changes.

Wishing you the best CPT, you'll be back behind the coil in no time, I'm sure.

Yes, but it's still a 2.3 kg detector, over 81 ounces if that's your flavour.

They would need to modernize the electronics and shrink them down to fit into a smaller housing, this would be the process that takes time, not making some sort of Frankstein SDC2300 looking more like a normal detector.

The bars been set now for the Algo, if they can put an SDC2300 into its build design that would be a good seller if priced right.

IRelease Notes for AlgoForce E1500 Software v1.0.8:

1. The activation time for a long key press function has been reduced from 1.5 seconds to 0.7 seconds. For example, the time duration between pressing and holding the ground balance key and the commencement of actual ground balancing is now 0.7 seconds, as opposed to 1.5 seconds. Other functions requiring a long key press are similarly affected, including vibration adjustment and auto frequency scan.

2. In version 1.0.7, Pinpoint mode and the main detection mode shared the same volume and vibration controls. With the introduction of v1.0.8, Pinpoint mode now features independent volume and vibration controls separate from the main detection mode. Users can customize their preferred volume and vibration settings in either mode. Furthermore, the volume and vibration settings in both modes are saved during power down for convenience.

The modification was the time needed to hold down the dual-purpose button to activate the second function, for example, the ground balance button is also the move right on the menu button, if you just press it, it moves across the menu, to activate ground balance you hold the button in, the duration it needed held in before ground balance started was 1.5 seconds on the initial firmware, now it's halved to 0.7 seconds, meaning you hold it in for almost a second less before it kicks into ground balance mode.  We are talking miniscule amounts time let's face it a second isn't very long, but its noticeable and by doing so speeds up ground balancing.  They couldn't have ground balance as the primary function of the button, imagine having to hold the button in for a second each time you wanted to move across a menu, it would be very awkward, anyone's who has used it will understand what I mean.   Think of it in GPX terms, you press your green quick track in, and before the ground balance begins to take place its 0.7 seconds, which is really nothing.     It's a user preference thing really, make it too fast and it might start ground balancing when all you wanted to do was change menu field.  

Another example if to change volume you press the volume up or down button, to change vibration settings you hold the button in, for 0.7 seconds and it will change the vibration intensity, another 0,7 seconds and the intensity will increase and so on,

The second update was just a separate volume control for pinpoint mode, as pinpointing can be quite loud, yet you don't want to change the detectors overall volume just to lower pinpoint volume, this was just my suggestion to them with me being fussy about such things, not a fault or problem by any means, just a useful suggestion that they took on.

It appears different countries have different regulations surrounding this however, in New Zealand all you need is the purchase receipt, doesn't need to be original, even a photocopy/scan and print is fine. 

We may see a Gold Monster 2000 with Multi frequency in 2025, it's well proven now that multi frequency is beneficial for this task, and in fact many just buy an Equinox for prospecting instead of the GM.  If they want to make a quick buck with minimal investment that's something they would do.

Slip in even higher frequencies like competitors' products in the 60 to 80khz somewhere, great for marketing.  

That's my bet for the next and only gold machine coming out in the near future, unless they tackle the SDC in some way putting it into a lighter more standard detector body for a cheap price to help with new competitors products, that would take some development work through and may not be ready in time for early next year.

5 hours ago, PhaseTech said:

The machine ran really good, nice and stable.

He's running in 22 sensitivity too, so hasn't had to wind it back, I tend to run on about 22, 23 myself most of the time so far.  

Anything over 25 to 30 seems like it's in some sort of boost power mode, where the jump from 24 to 25 is quite significant.  There are places I can do it, and it will run stable over 25, coil matters there too, my 10" does it better than the Sadie.   As it's a detector that the smaller gold depth and sensitivity improves noticeably with higher gain it will be interesting to get a bit further away from EMI sources on my next gold hunt and see how far I can push it, my last two places detected were too close to power lines.   

Any gain over 20 to 25 seems the sweet spot for stability and sensitivity though, I like to run my detectors sparky though so it will be good to try out those 25+ higher gain settings in a lower EMI environment.

They could have cut off the gain control at 24 and people would think it's a remarkably stable detector even at maximum sensitivity, so I'm glad they left those extra few numbers there so we can really push it.

21 minutes ago, Taz said:

Just spent 20 minutes typing another reply and when I hit post/send it got wiped.

Not gonna re-do it. When mine comes I live right on it in Central Vic. Rich lead right out my back door which I look at from the kitchen. I'll give a warts n all on it from undug actually found targets. But dont hold your breath, the wait has gone like I expected sd2000 days. May see mine in April if im lucky. 

I noticed on Phase Technical website the date of February for the next batch has disappeared, makes me wonder if that batch is now already sold and they're moving onto the 3rd batch sales.  That's what happens when you make a good quality affordable PI I guess.

Well, judging from their wording on their results for H1, I don't think those hanging out for a new GPZ have much to look forward to, nor those thinking that Minelab has something up their sleeve to target the Algoforce.  You can read the full report here.

"RoW revenues continue to remain remarkably resilient, despite a challenging macroeconomic environment. Newly released products of Manticore, Equinox 700|900 and X-Terra Pro have contributed to the growth in first half FY24 revenues. However, as the first anniversary release date of these products passes, revenues are expected to normalise during the second half."

I don't know if you're a Facebooker but there is a bit of chat on them here, with some Aussies using them.

Modded Detectors and Detector Gadgets Australia | Facebook

yep, I run almost exclusively in sensitive extra except in bad hot rock areas, I have noticed as Minelab are pointing out there that fine gold does well on rough/flaky gold and specimens though, better than sensitive extra on some little bits, some sensitive extra won't see at all that fine gold does.

Yes, fine gold on the GPX certainly increases target response on some difficult nuggets that in sensitive extra could miss entirely, it still isn't great on them, but it will find gold sensitive extra will miss, and probably the same goes the other way around too.

Even the GPX 6000 displays this trait to a certain degree with difficult sometimes picking up some nuggets better than normal even in an air test with no soil to change the results, not something you would expect.

I bought myself another battery yesterday, mainly as I wanted to see just how light I can make my Algoforce.  With the detectors weight being 840 grams without power bank and coil it sure is a light detector so worth exploring ways to make the full package as light as possible.

I bought a Momax 10000 mAh battery, it's a slimline version and really is a tiny battery bank.

192 grams, my Belkin which is 200000 mAh is just over double the weight, no surprises there

Both power banks will last over a day's detecting, well the Belkin should get more than two days and so far with my usage, this holds true.

If we compare to the GPX 5000 battery, it's quite funny.

878 grams! 

?

This is the Belkin, a bit meatier but still, tiny in comparison.

The little Momax locks in tight, holds in better than the Belkin as the Belkin has more rounded edges making the adjustable rail not as effective, it still holds in perfectly fine, but the Momax holds in place with less effort getting everything tight.

This is the Belkin locked in place, I don't like my USB cable how it is exposed like that so I've ordered a right-angle USB C cable so I can route it right up from the battery to the shaft without it sticking out at all, it should arrive today with any luck.  Then I'll just put the little USB rubber seal covers over any unused ports.

This photo is the rail that you loosen the nuts either side to adjust for different size batteries, and the rail has rubber grip pads on it to stop the battery slipping

This one has cover on its unused ports, they're micro USB covers I've put in USB C ports, not a perfect fit but do the job until my USB-C covers arrive.  I'll use the right-angle USB C cable on this battery too and you can see how if its in the middle port, and routed straight up to the shaft it can be tucked away neatly and not so exposed.

This is the cable I've ordered, in a 25 cm length which should be perfect.  I've also ordered a rounded version of the cord to see which I prefer.

So, with the Nugget Finder Sadie which weighs in at 574 grams I'll have a total weight PI of 1606 grams.  That's not much heavier than the stock GPZ 14x13" coil. ? I don't even know if the Sadie is the lightest coil.  On another note I believe I can see in my Sadies cable they've twisted the wires, I'd like someone with an old Sadie to see if they can see the same with theirs, it would be interesting to see if this is a modern improvement over the older ones for EMI mitigation.

With my Equinox 800 with 11" coil weighing in at 1340 grams, it's not much heavier to be running a PI.  When I say it feels like you're swinging a VLF, I really mean it.

I like almost everything about the Axiom except its price ?

Thanks for the information on small nuggets with it as to me that's a keen point of interest, I appreciate your videos Abenson as I can easily translate that in my melon to how it would perform for me more so than someone's words, sadly it's a detector I'll highly likely never own as it's price is frankly ridiculous in New Zealand, I am hoping the new kid on the block forces Garrett to take a look into their pricing structure and adjust accordingly as I'd like to try one out at least, and I know nobody around here is going to buy one to let me have a little play with it for the same reason I'll never buy one, price!

It's lack of aftermarket coil support is also a bit of a downer, and those that were going to make them have backed out for now, the positive there is at least Garrett have quite a good range themselves.

It's also Garretts first attempt at a modern high performance sensitive PI, so I look forward to seeing their future products, at least they're firmly back in the game now.  Let's hope they don't do an AT Series and try sell it for the next 20+ years.