cjc

Great info thanks guys.  Ive been  looking for something for my TDI Pro and Carl at Geotech did recommend something from Coiltek for the GPZ. I've actually got an  enquiry up  there under "Coils" to see what else pops  up.

cjc

Ya that's true guess  my age is showing--"Mixed Mode" is what the Eagle manual termed it but the old timers  did call  it "tone  on tone."  Great learing tool and performance--lot of guys were nuts about the Nautilus on the Southern relic  sites back then and  still a few knocking about...Great article BTW this is the kind of information  that would help  new hunters to  make more practical sense of the tech we are presented with now. 

Regards 

clive

I've  got one PM if you want it.  

cjc

Tom Dankowski’s Settings for the Minelab Manticore

Tom Dankowski was one of the original beta testers  for the Minelab Manticore.  During the course of this testing he developed a group of settings that began with the stock “Beach Low Conductor mode.   This is arguably the deepest way to run the Manticore and my tests have shown it  to be a very deep setting.  Here’s how it works:

A metal signal in the ground is not discrete.  What I mean by that is that it’s  not separate from the ground’s signal.  What a detector does is to separate this orderly, distinct signal from the ground’s larger, stronger, more diverse one.  Years ago detectors were set up to try and “punch through” the ground to detect a target.  “(TR)”  Later, with the advent of “ground balance” the machine could be set to “zero out” the ground’s signal by operating from a variable set point.   Some detectors featured what was called “tone on tone.”  With “tone on tone” you heard both an all metal signal and a non-ferrous signal at once.  This made it easier for deep signals to be heard as the ground part of the response was already being amplified and heard. Anyone who has used a detector that features “silent search” would have experienced the performance loss that this creates as good targets have to jump up out of the “null” to be heard.   Machines like the Whites “Eagle” and “Nautilus” machines were higlhy regarded for the depth that this “tone on tone” audio gave them.

Tom Dankowski

So with Dankowski’s settings, we have  basically  the same thing.  Ferrous Volume is turned up to maximum (25) to bring up everything under the coil.   The setting then relies on the Manticore’s strong processing to  separate any non-ferrous  targets  from this big response.  The program also features “Prospecting” type one-tone audio.  This brings in the machine’s filtering (bias) to  assist in  pushing the “random” part of the signal  down into the iron tone.  The noise of this iron tone takes some getting used to but the results are surprising.

It’s also quite a stable way to run the Manticore—even up at high Sensitivity levels (26/28 or more) because the noise is already there.   The operator’s job is to learn to hear through it.  If you have an  old  area where you  want to see what’s  “way down there”–this is the setting  to use–given some practice.

Appendix V: Tom Dankowski’s Open Low Conductor Mode Settings

This is arguably the deepest way to run the Manticore.  I would have to concur–it’s a “shocker.” This set up requires the use of basic skills to offset the open Ferrous Limits–sizing signals, using the cross sweep and Pinpoint where needed.  As with any Manticore application, the graph also helps here–keeping you off the “partials” and cross-feeds. As with any high-power setting it also requires that you “listen good” and focus upon solid, “peaked” sounding responses.

Beach Low Conductors Mode
Volume: 25
Ferrous Volume: 25
Recovery Speed: 4
Discrimination Pattern: All Metal
Ferrous Limits: Upper = 4, Lower = 0
Nothing Notched out. (Bring in the iron).
Audio Theme = Prospecting
Ground Balance the unit close to the edge of the saltwater
[States Tom…]

Run Sens on 24 or 25 or 26… depending / dictated by the salt-content of your particular beach. (Start at 24….. and see how stable the unit is. Then bump-up Sens accordingly).

I get the feeling that you may be able to bump Sens up…even higher. Maybe even 28. IF you can run Sens 28…you are going to find the results…interesting.  [Ed. Note: By this Tom means that the machine has extreme depth with this setting–I concur!].
I do recommend making the hotkeys: Upper Left Button = Noise Cancel. Upper Right Button = Ground Balance. Sidebar button = Iron

Ed. Note.   Listen  for complete sounds with exension.  Use the cross sweep to check your signal  for consistency.  If you are going to use the “Red Iron Indicator” keep your ID’ing passes narrow so as to get a clean reading.   As well, this indicator is not always that accurate in black sand. Also, if the  all  metal  noise is too  much turn  down either the Ferrous Volume, or the overall Volume. There’s also nothing wrong with adding in a reject block  to make for cleaner target assignment although this will  detract from the overall power of the program.  Try  this setting up at 28 and “hold on to your hat!”

15 hours ago, w-t-d said:

The "dig everything" I posted was a bit of sarcasm but not entirely. To be truthful, lately; I have been digging almost every Manticore high tone in a effort to get max exposure to Manticore's silver coin finding capabilities and after probably 30+ hours at it I'm feeling good about it enough now to cherry pick the highs.  

Next up I want to fine tune my Manticore listening skills, knowledge and detector setup for Canadian $1 and $2 coins.

I've tried it too  and not  done all that well without adding ion some simple target testing--cross sweep, PP wide /narrow--you  get a lot of  bang for your buck with these.  Nothing I like more than watching these YouTube gurus go from  one hunk of iron to the next...

I think one of the first  things I noticed  with the Manti was just how good the  spikes  sound...

cjc

Its not just  that our CDN coins are full of steel but also that the Manti and Legend see them as alloys--they  are being biased out.  When  one of these coins has been in the ground  a while they become more like the ground and are even harder to detect.  For my purposes, alerting to the tiny "flag" that the non ferrous  part of a CDN coin gives is  an  excellent trainer for small gold.  You might  as  stated above do well to run a high FQ. With the Manti--peaked tones mean good, non ferrous metal--distinct from the ground.  CDN coins are pretty  much the opposite.  Makes these  machines a hard sell up here as good as they are.  Hate to say  it--but here's  another case for taking the time to learn a  bit of basic  detector theory instead of going out with this "I just dig everything" mentality.  Its these nuances  of signal  type  that let you  wade through the amount of fidelity that a machine like the D2 or Legend or Manti offers and not go out digging targets that aren't even LIKE what you  are looking for. 

cjc

On 10/26/2023 at 11:47 PM, Joe Beechnut OBN said:

Some fine looking treasures Clive!  Tell us how you got started ...

A buddy of  mine went to a Sportsman's Show and came back with a Whtes brohure and I was soon the proud owner of a Coinmaster 6DB. This was  in '89.  Then I picked it up again in 1993 and evenually figured out that there might be  something in the water too...by then I had an  Eagle 11 and a CZ5. (first signet a "C"--I knew I was home...😁). Next was a CZ21 and my beloved Cuda. Still got em both...Here are my first few bits from  the parks....It was a bit  easier then.  Now--there\s  a troll under every bridge...😆

cjc

On 10/26/2023 at 5:04 PM, Compass said:

I started metal detecting over 50 years ago and my finds pale in comparison. Where did I go wrong?! 😄

Not enough water up  the nose...it takes  gallons and  gallons  to find  anything...😆

To  be honest that  represents a lot of misery and a lot of dead heats--with a few flashes of glory...

To operate at that level is a lot  more  like  work  than  a hobby.  

cjc

Heres the finished  product:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIT2ZjCbIzE

cjc

28 minutes ago, midalake said:

Actually, I would welcome Clive down to where I hunt in Mexico. Even if he did kick my arse. 

They would  kidnap me right off the plane...

cjc

7 hours ago, Valens Legacy said:

Just found out where all the good stuff has gone when I go detecting at a beach.

Me too...but its  all water up the nose...

cj

Not too much of an ad I hope more of an ad in the making lol..

cjc

21 hours ago, Mike_Hillis said:

Looks like you got a few good diamonds in the mix, too.   That man's band with the three diamonds looks like it may have some additional value as well as the diamond ring in the foreground. 

Pretty nice haul. 

HH,

Mike
 

Ya, they  are decent rocks--I was told $1200 on the men's ring and the engagement is .75, an S1.  Im just glad  that for once they are real...lol.   Glad you are still at it Mike.

cjc

On 10/12/2023 at 6:29 AM, Skull diver said:

The naked truth... Even a "professional" hunter cannot show today the old numbers.

A mix of better performing tools and competition, plus less loss of items, has lowered finds dramatically.Or at least that's my impression...😑

Its true, first year the NOX came out I cleaned up--then everyone else figured it out...this is why skill building is so important --to have an advantage over all those hunters whose only strategy is getting  there first.

cjc

11 hours ago, Joe Beechnut OBN said:

Always Amazing and some big money!

This question may seem out of line (and I do think it would be a great chapter in one of your books) .. To find the treasure you find, to what extents and expenses do you go to .. find what you do. I really think to achieve the results you do, one must really step up and be aggressive at this hobby.

Example, 2008 to 2013 I did road trips and vacations every chance I had......2.5 hours to OC Md. I did ok with about 25 golds a year. I do have some great memories but I would say I was in the RED for sure (Accommodations, food, gas, W & T on my truck then equipment, etc), ....

2014 to 2021....In short... I did much better by spending a lot more cash to fill the treasure chest. Everything from a Jet ski, boat, drysuits, equipment, wear and tear on the vehicles, gas, repair bills... 

Maybe I should post the question to all.. I'm sure there are some great stories and experiences to be shared.

Wear and Tear is right...!  Its true you gotta spend to make and buying and maintaining these detectors can be a real drag on what looks like a sweet load of finds.  Best line in any of my books (and the truest) is that "...I pack and mail a detector for service like most people sneeze..."  Achoo, Achoo--there go two--and a headphones...

Not to mention gas, travel, all of it.   

At the same time, when you compete with people who live next to the beach or are just determined top  pros, having the choice of several TYPES of machines that do different things is a must.  This lets me translate the experience I've gained in 45 years of swinging into versatile, focussed action in relation to what the conditons present.  The three major "pushes" are: depth accuracy and coverage.  Sometimes you need all three.  Sometimes it even works...cjc

(Here are a few "away kit" pictures, pre Manti)...If you want to operate at this level--prepare to spend a few bucks...😆

On 10/12/2023 at 5:31 AM, StarVatrex said:

Good job, that's a lot of hours. Congratulations.

Which one did you get the chain with?...

NOX big coil sounded like a scratchy nail.

cjc

5 hours ago, CliveHamy said:

"The NOX also has superb accuracy both digital and audio--to help you sort though the aluminum" Hi Clive, could you summarise how one can sort through the aluminium ? I find that alu foil and can slaw is anywhere between 2 and 24, whilst whole can are 24 on my NOX (Field 2,) It gives a good all round signal (but does not sound the same as coins or rings but I can't describe the difference. Your tips on this would be much appreciated. Cheers Clive H.

A machine like the NOX or Manti is so accurate that can slaw shows how alloyed and mis shapen it is when you use the cross sweep.  I see so many You tube hunters doing this moronic "wiggle" that acts to make a wild signal sound better as the machine cuts out the inconsistent parts with progressive sweeps.  I also size targets that seem too big by using Pinpoint.  The NOX's modulation is bad for making these bigger targets "(deep "rotten glasses)" sound coin sized though--These are the kinds of targets that waste time when one does not bother with basic skills.  So many scoff at my books but don't know any of this.  Last laugh is mine--seeing what these guys have dug every time I hunt. 😁

cjc

On 10/11/2023 at 10:18 PM, King-Of-Bling said:

That's it ? You must be busy writing too many books. Haha ! Nice quality. Not sure if I've ever seen a chain like that before. Very unique. 

very light-25 gr. -maybe you weren't watching the surface for one to float past...

cjc

On 10/11/2023 at 8:39 PM, Tony said:

Nice going Clive......I hope your Excalibur isn't feeling too neglected 😪

Summer on its way down here....I need to hit it hard 💪

HH

Tony

 

The fidelity of a machine like the Manti spoils you rotten.  It doesen't do everything but gives a bit more accuracy than the old Excal. Really it's the pulses that do the heavy lifting where there is competiton though.  Everyone wants this pushbutton detecting--there's an over reliance on tech that's a mistake.

Hope that you kill it this upcoming season. 

Regards clive

19 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

Ok, but that visual ability is not exclusive to the Manticore. The 3030 does that with the FE / CO, the Legend does it with Ferrocheck (simultaneously shows the ferrous and nonferrous content), and the D2 does it with its X/Y screen.

Regarding the trash numbers:

We all know that the bane of gold jewelry hunters is aluminum trash. Those aluminum trash numbers fall right into the same number range as most gold rings and jewelry. So, if that's the problem we're discussing, then going by ID isn't going to help with that problem, nor will an ID plotter like Target Trace. If anything, TT is less accurate in this scenario, because TT shows a dot in the general area of the ID, but ID assigns a precise number.



 

Well here we are comparing to the NOX.  The NOX also has superb accuracy both digital and audio--to help you sort though the aluminum but its the graph that makes the diffference in your accuracy on everything else.  Also, it's not the graph in isolation--its how it helps you in conjunction with the whole array of features and overall performance.  cjc

Lets face it--gold is rare.  anything that lets you CONCLUSIVELY reject some of the trash "numbers" is a huge deal.  the graph does this by showing anything that's a/ corroded in the slightest (off the center) and b/ not solid enough to really give a clean response--that is something that the machine is reading the ground right through. (Hate to say it but this level of accuracy requires that you know your basic signal types ie, ferrous, non-ferrous, "mixed"--these have to do  with the signals relationship with the surrounding ground.).  This is why so many You Tube videos are comical in that some of these hunters are digging targets that are not even LIKE what they are looking for.    Point being I have yet to see a gold target that did not have some center line involvement--period.  Just that alone is a gold hunters dream.  Also, anyone who says "wait--there could be gold underneath the iron" doesent know what this detector is capable of given a few coil passes and some angled passes. cjc

16 hours ago, midalake said:

Only if you can run the same sensitivity. Which I think is referenced. If you are at three points or more of sensitivity difference, then Beach 2 is the clear choice.  I know this to be true as I cannot hunt my location in Beach 1. 

Ya, this is the trade off I'm referencing--those low weighted presets give you a lot more room.  At the same time--on the dry or sidewall--B1 will really surprise you.  cjc

Manti, NOX, Legend, Cuda, Impulse AQ...

cjc

5 hours ago, Airtemisa said:

So, reading your words, in beach (I understand wet sand) you run B1 for general use, and B2 only for chains? Really!? 

my freshwater sites have heavy black sand.  at the same time in , a salt environmentrunning B1 is considerably deeper .but only stable up on the sidewall.  but no, those are not my workds anyhow...micro gold sensitivity=B1 / P2.

Deeper, better processing and the graph is a gold hunters dream.

cjc