TampaBayBrad

4 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

All buyers of all new detectors in the first few months these days are just doing the final testing.

So my pay check from Mine Lab should be arriving in the mail shortly....

Yea, we get renourishment projects every few years here on the gulf coast also. Saw an interesting story on the news about how there used to not even be a beach at all years ago in some areas here on the central Florida gulf coast. They showed pictures of various landmarks and well known beach hang-outs with a seawall and water in the back where now it is a 50 yard wide beach due to the on going renourishment projects.

So, although it is a PIA to us detectorists for a while after each dose of sand, we need the beach. The areas I detect over here wouldn't be here now without renourishment programs. They use a dredge offshore and pipe sand up to the beach here rather than use dump trucks.

phrunt, are you anywhere near Auckland? Just read in the paper about the serious flooding there after a summer's worth of rain fell in one day. 

Hope all is well with you...

33 minutes ago, Sirius said:

I also found two rings right next to each other kinda in the same area. Though one was fake, the other one was heavier and might be silver. Like objects seem to show up in the same places.

Possibly they were laying in a pile on the same towel when the owner forgot and picked up the towel.

Also, if you hit the beach during a low tide later in the day, go as deep as you comfortably can in the water during that low. When you're deep at low tide, that is the least hunted area by others due to it's inaccessibility at the other higher tides.

My beach hunting instincts:

1. More people, more jewelry drops. Also means more detectorists already hitting the place.

2. Drop jewelry in waist deep water, very hard to find. Drop in the sand, you may be able to find it. (this assumes you knew you dropped it in both cases)

3. More detectorists hit the dry and wet sand than hunt in the water. Less competition in the water.

4. Best time to go hunting is an early morning low tide. Work the water line first before the tide covers it back up. Save the water hunting for later when the beach gets crowded. Work the towel line before it gets crowded if the water line has no targets.

5. Go hunting after a storm stirs up the beach. Water targets could then be easier wet sand targets after getting pushed in or uncovered.

6. If the popular busy beach is cleaned out of targets, try a not so busy beach. In my area you have wall to wall condos lining the beach for miles, which house a lot of vacation renters hitting the beach right behind their condo. It may not have as many people as a public parking beach, but it doesn't have as many detectorists either.

I probably have more thoughts, but those are the main ones that popped into my head at 5 a.m. this morning about beach hunting.

Good luck, it sounds like you are on the right track. Learn your detector and learn your beaches. You will hit the gold if you put the time in.

I don't know the mechanics of how they work. I imagine screen sifter size is a big deal. But if it's small enough to hold coins or rings, you would think it would back up easily and not allow them to drive as fast as they do.

I think being in a tourist area like I am, the rake is mainly used for appearance of the sand. There is no trash at all on the beach where I see these guys running in the early morning EVERY day. Not enough time to get trashy in between runs.

I find deep coins in the dry sand 8"-10" down, so was wondering if these machines swipe them off the top layer or if they can't get that small.

Does anybody know if these things are good enough to pick up small things like coins and rings?

I want to stop one on the beach and ask the operator (he would know), but haven't done it yet.

They hit my dry sand beaches every morning.

1 hour ago, steveg said:

 

The reason is, the way the unit behaves in iron can be altered to an enormously immense degree (I hope I stressed that enough) SIMPLY based on your limits settings.  That is the entire POINT of the limits settings...to give the user enormous amounts of control over the machine's behavior in and around iron.  

I was going to say this Steve, but you said it better than I could.

Setting ferrous limits, setting ferrous pitch, setting ferrous volume, and setting recovery speed all come into play as to what the user hears and sees on the display around iron.

It's like YOU have the control of how your detector operates around iron. I'm still playing with my settings but am liking the machines performance so far.

On the waterproof subject....here's a quote from page 2 of NASA Tom's Manticore thread:

"The only other thing I want to clarify: We learned some lessons with EQX water intrusion. MC is improved; yet, retains IP68 rating........to 5M (16-feet)."

So there it is from the horse's mouth. 🙂

On 1/21/2023 at 8:15 PM, okara gold said:

I was able to get in the saltwater again today. Conditions were not the best. The swells were picking me up and placing me a few feet away and a southern bound current was strong enough making it difficult to place your scoop accurately to dig the target. Waves were breaking and rolling high off the outer sandbar and would hit you on the back of the head if you weren’t watching. Bottom line… The Manticore was submerged for 2 hours in some strong water and performed perfectly with no water intrusion. I was running a 21 sensitivity with a 4 recovery speed, prospecting mode. No gold but so far so good. 

Were you running the ML-105 headphones that come with the detector? If so, wired or wireless?

Sounds like you took a beating in the surf. Way to hang in there and give it the old college try!

30 minutes ago, rled2005 said:

There’s one available here in Oregon:

https://oregonmds.ehopper.info/product/minelab-manticore-coming-soon/

That's a heck of a description he wrote up!

"Our most powerful detector yet, Manticore finds targets faster, more clearly, and in even the most challenging environments. With impressive capabilities and technologies, nothing will go undetected. More effective than even the most high-end models in the market, Manticore brings power, precision and accuracy to detecting in a way that wasn’t previously possible."

On the first page of Dankowski's Manticore thread, he states:

"IF you could figure out a way to wire a EQX coil to the new Manticore...... the Manticore would blow/burn it out. Soooo...... coils are NOT interchangeable. (There's also other reasons for incompatibility).
The coil has tighter tolerances....and more stuff in it; hence, soooo........it must be built heavier-duty. The extra 2 heli-arc'd fore-aft curved ribs are not very hydrodynamic; yet, are a necessity."

"50% more power to the coil does not equate to 50% more depth."

So it sounds to me that they are for sure referring to power TO the coil.

1 hour ago, FloridaSon said:

Great trip, good haul and tips.

RE: Pinpointing, can you pinpoint with just the coil like I do with the 800? If so where is the ‘sweet spot’ on the coil to let you know you are over the target?

Or do you use the Manticore pinpoint function?

Congrats and thanks

I've only been one short trip with mine and I pinpointed dead center of coil with some success because that's what I do with my cz-21. Not sure if that is the sweet spot, but it worked for me and my shovel. I didn't use the pinpoint function.

50 minutes ago, FloridaSon said:

I know… but about two years ago there was such beach erosion around the old survivors/salvage/british camp ( could be one or all three, no ones completely sure) that a carpet of musket balls of various sizes, shapes, wired, cut and chewed were accessible. These were beach front and in the first shallow bar.

There were a bunch of west coast guys here and a ton of detectorists showed as word spread.

with work, I got there late to the party but some found dozens. Must have been a huge spill.

then the winds changed, the beaches filled and lights out.

since then, the state and county wizened up about dumping sand and they fill the beach from north to south, it all fills in and moves around but never all leaves. But it was fun while it lasted.

https://tbr2020.blogspot.com/2020/11/112220-report-variety-of-recent.html

Interesting, kinda like all the ship wrecks close in from Sebastian Inlet southward.

We get a ton of beach "renourishment" over here. Screws things up for a while detecting wise, but you need beaches! Hate the $3 an hour parking wherever you go too. The price we pay to detect. 😒

6 hours ago, steveg said:

Well, UPS did not let me down a second time...

It here!

Steve

Congrats, Steve. Looking forward to your observations on  settings for your manticore.

27 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

 

 

A lot to unpack here technically, because there are some definite misconceptions and conflating of technical characteristics here.

First of all, TampBayBrad - Strick is right in the sense that in highly mineralized (i.e., hot) ground, increasing coil transmit power is often counterproductive because it tends to "light off" the conductive particles in the soil.  The analogy often used is that it is like turning on high beams in the fog.  This is what George is alluding to, also.  I started typing this before your last reply, so I see you understand that.  Furthermore, I have not seen folks who do use the Manticore in hot dirt complaining about its capabilities with this increased coil power capability.  They seem to be finding stuff just fine.

But the issue with Manticore is that we really do not know what ML means by 50% more power to the coil.  It's a marketing tag line, and while I don't believe it is a false statement, I do believe that ML had to crank coil transmit power up to compensate for something else and not just for raw depth ability (although testing somewhat backs up the notion that the Manticore appears to have marginally better depth than Equinox).  They may have had to do it so that they could more efficiently distribute power in the simultaneous multi-frequency waveform (MultiIQ+) but they may have also done it to combat EMI.  More transmit coil current means the signal-to-noise ratio can be improved, thereby, improving EMI mitigation.  That approach involves a number of other arcane technical tradeoffs, but the marketing folks just ran with 50% more power because is "sounds" great to us - and it obviously worked because, well a lot of folks are waiting for Manticore boats to show up and all that.  

Furthermore, some folks in the thread are mixing up coil power and sensitivity (I think that is what you are driving at Brad).  Sensitivity can be adjusted to as necessary to mitigate noise, overload, etc.  But you are NOT adjusting coil transmit power when you adjust sensitivity, you are merely adjusting the sensitivity of the detectors receive circuit to the received signal.  As a matter of fact it is not clear that that the user has any explicit means of adjusting the amount of transmit power to the coil other than through the selection of various modes which likely utilize different (but undocumented) amounts of transmit power.  For example, it is a known fact that on Equinox, coil transmit power is reduced in the Beach modes to enhance stability in salt and black sand (because the black sand issues present similar challenges as mineralized soil).  I don't own a Manticore and don't plan on getting one anytime soon because my Nox 900 and Deus 2 cover my bases for now, so I have not done a deep dive into the manual to determine if coil power is adjusted with mode selection, but I suspect the same approach for beach detecting used in Equinox Multi-IQ is used for Manticore Multi-IQ+.

So yes, Brad, your final quoted statement is true in the sense that adjusting sensitivity on Manticore has nothing to do with adjusting coil transmit power, but because of that higher transmit power, sensitivity might have to be adjusted down compensate for increased ground noise in hot dirt vs. say the Equinox, all other things being equal.  It is a good thing that ML saw fit to provide a lot of headroom on sensitivity adjustments as that enables you to run the machine on the ragged edge regardless of the site conditions.  I actually get concerned when I hit max sensitivity and all is quiet, that means that the designers likely left some capability on the table.

If nothing else, hope this clears up the difference between coil power and sensitivity for people.

 

Thanks for your explanation, Chase. Maybe this section of the manual can enlighten some more:

"FREQUENCIES AND SEARCH MODES Each Search Mode is limited to the frequencies that provide the best performance for that mode. All‑Terrain modes can operate successfully across every available frequency setting, therefore single frequencies are available in All-Terrain. Beach modes can only perform successfully in typical beach conditions in Multi‑IQ+, therefore the single frequencies are not available. Similarly, Goldfield is optimised for detecting low conductive gold nuggets that are more easily detected at higher frequencies. Therefore the lower single frequencies (5, 10 and 15kHz) are not available in this mode. MANTICORE does not have a 4kHz single frequency setting. Instead, the All Terrain High Conductors Search Mode provides a Multi‑IQ+ based mode that can achieve an operating frequency even lower than 4kHz. This provides the benefits of a low frequency/high power mode for detection and discrimination of high conductors, while retaining the substantial benefits of Multi‑IQ+.

MANTICORE Frequencies Frequency (kHz) Multi‑IQ+ 5  10  15  20  40

                                                      All‑Terrain                  

                                                           Beach                    

                                                      Goldfield                    

MULTI-IQ+ OPERATION

Multi‑IQ+ operates across the full spectrum of frequencies simultaneously, allowing it to cover a much broader range of targets than a single frequency can. Multi‑IQ+ delivers superior performance over single frequency operation in almost all conditions. Detecting using Multi‑IQ+ at all times is recommended because:

It gives the best chance of detecting a broad range of targets.

Multi‑IQ+ Target IDs are more stable and accurate than single frequencies"

So I'm thinking the 50% more power claim may be the power required to simultaneously transmit all freqs at the same time? Even a Mine Lab rep in a video I linked in another thread gave vague answers when asked about the 50% more power. He did say it provided another inch to 2 inches of depth. (again vague answer)

12 minutes ago, strick said:

It has to do with where you hunt...mild ground cranking up the power will get you some extra depth. Cranking up the power too high  in hot ground will get you frustration. It’s not a one size fits all type of thing. 

Strick

I get that....been detecting many years.

I'm just saying I don't think the 50% thing is just adding another couple numbers to the max sensitivity on the high end of the scale. In other words, let's say Nox can go to 30 sensitivity on a certain scale, but MC can go to 35 on the same scale. I don't think that's what the new 50% more power claim is referring to. I think it's more of a combined power at all the freqs:

"Multi-IQ+ transmits more power through the coil at a wider range of operating frequencies, to light up more targets in the ground. "

So I'm thinking you get some power benefit from Multi-IQ+ even if your not using the hot 30-35 range on the sensitivity setting.

48 minutes ago, George Kinsey said:

You probably will never be able to use that extra power. I run my detectors one setting below noise for a smoother signal and ample depth. I have not received my Manticore yet. But I will not change the way I use my sensitivity setting, and will run it in single frequency at first, unless I'm at the salt water.

Never be able to use the extra power? What's the point of developing a detector with it then?

I ran the manticore on first hunt wet salt sand at a sensitivity setting (24) that was just starting to get "chatty" after ground balance and long press  noise cancel. Not annoying chatty, but audible with coil bumps and slight background that is easy to ignore. Not sure if you are assuming the extra power doesn't kick in until you're up closer to the 35 max setting? I'm not sure that that is how it works. 

I was thinking that my 70% of max setting would be more powerful than an equal 70% of max on the Nox. There has to be a benefit of the "50% more power" beyond a higher more powerful high end max sensitivity setting that nobody can use. What would be the point of the cost of designing, engineering more powerful equipment if nobody could ever use that power?

That's it ^^^^^^. Not very useful with only 3 different indications. 90% to 7%....really Mine Lab?

That does tell me that the 2 hours I ran didn't bump it lower than 90%. I still had the 100-90 indication. I was using Beach Low Conductors for 1 1/2 hours and All Terrain Low Conductors for a half hour.

I didn't even notice my setting because I left it as it was out of the box which was pretty high now that I looked at it. I first looked at the screen at the beach in bright sunlight with my polarized sunglasses on and decided "this ain't gonna work!". So may as well left the sunglasses in the truck. You know how it is when you pump gas or go to an ATM with your sunglasses on. But I wouldn't think the small lcd screen brightness would burn too much battery. On a laptop you burn more battery but the Manticore screen is smaller than cell phone screens. Then again the Manticore battery isn't big in relation to those either.

On mine, I ran with the higher backlight setting for 2 hours or so first hunt and I just checked it and the battery indicator hasn't gone down any. Weird?? I don't know....

4 minutes ago, FloridaSon said:

Lol yeah us Florida boys get excited about a musket ball. So many place permissions are not just no but hell no!

 

You've found a musket ball? Sure it wasn't a big ball bearing? Lol....

A couple reasons I hunt the beach/water down here. It's allowed, it's soft sand to dig in, the beach is close for me, the water keeps me comfortable in the blazing hot summer sun, they don't like us in parks, they use electrified barb wire fence to keep us out of school yards and there weren't many civil war battles in central Florida.

So....I go to the beach where the scenery ain't bad anyway. And I don't have to fight the waves like you guys on the east coast.

4 minutes ago, FloridaSon said:

 

2 hours ago, George Kinsey said:

It's the same old tune fiddle and Guitar where to we take it from here? Multi at the beach and low single frequency on land is how I will go when mine arrives.

Not sure, but I thought the 50% extra power only applied to Multi-IQ+. Not sure if you get the extra power (depth) over the 900 Nox with a single freq. setting. May be something you want to look into before deciding on the single freq set up. If an extra inch or so isn't important, then it wouldn't matter.

From the Mine Lab site:

"MANTICORE with Multi-IQ+ is the most powerful, fastest, and precise metal detector in Minelab’s history. The heart of MANTICORE is its super-charged Simultaneous Multi-Frequency (MULTI-IQ+) engine. This feat of innovation generates an incredible 50% power increase over the best-selling detector series of all time: EQUINOX. "

11 hours ago, Ringtail said:

I found 3 harmonicas: 2 were just reeds and one mostly complete harmonica.

 

 

 

Sounds like you were detecting an old Hootenanny Hoedown site! There's probably some old whiskey bottles down there too. Ha!

4 hours ago, steveg said:

LOL -- I understand!

Meanwhile, UPS seems to have decided -- despite my package being on the truck and "out for delivery" today -- not to deliver it.  Sometimes, it gets late in the day, and our UPS driver just decides they are "done for the day," and today was one of those days.  And now tracking shows "delivery attempted" (a complete fabrication), with delivery now re-secheduled for the next business day.

So, we'll see if the driver decides to show up on Monday.

Steve

Man, that sucks. You think it's coming and then BOOM! Wait another 3 days! Ouch.

Mine came second day air FedEx signature required from Cabela's. If yours is signature required UPS, you better be there with your ears on for the knock or doorbell.

6 hours ago, steveg said:

Well, what do you know.  I got a surprise message from my dealer tonight, that he'll be shipping my Manticore tomorrow...

Now, at least, when I'm running my mouth too much on this forum, at least I'll actually be a Manticore OWNER, instead of someone pontificating about a machine I don't even own!  😉

Steve

I love reading your pontificating along with Dankowski's. A big help in understanding how the machine works.

I got mine on Wednesday and went for a short hunt on the wet sand beach for an hour and a half yesterday. Came up with a nice man's tungsten or stainless ring that I swear was at least 12" deep. Also a tiny sea shell toe ring and a charm and a pink stone in a plated setting that was half the size of a pencil eraser at 6". This beach is pounded by others regularly.

Thanks for your input and glad you're getting yours. 😀