Steve Herschbach

Personally I don't think it would be overkill at all. The big coil honestly does not add much depth on coin size targets - it will reach deep for big junk though! The main thing it does is give you great ground coverage for those huge beaches. If you experiment a little too you will find you can hold the coil a little higher than normal off the beach and avoid picking up tiny foil or ferrous bits. Yet still get good depth due to the larger size.

Sounds like fun - good luck!

1 hour ago, Ringmoney said:

But the speculation and all the crazy ideas is great fun 

Oh, yeah, and anyone who follows the forum knows I thrive on it!  As a rule though what I personally thrive on most is factual information. So I tend to wait until I get hard specs or facts, and then go crazy putting them on a thread on the forum as fast as I can. I get to learn about the new detector, people reading the forum get to learn along with me. I see commentary at times from people complaining about hype. Hype to me is making over the top claims. All single frequency detectors being made obsolete? Sales hype. What I want to know it what it looks like, what it's intended use is, frequencies, display, tones, waterproof or not etc. etc.

I guess I am a spec junkie when you get right down to it. I am the type of person that will forget your name 5 minutes after you tell it to me. But you would be amazed at how many detector specs of different brands and models I can spew out off the top of my head going back for many years with a high degree of accuracy. I am a walking, talking detector catalog.

Specs! Give us the specs!!

Those that know won't talk, and those that talk don't know. Only three days to go so rather than speculate I will just wait. The only real clue I know of is the decision on where to announce the machine - a detector rally in the U.K.

This may sound crazy but I think somebody should make an old fashioned non ground balancing TR detector with modern components and with a good variable autotune circuit. People pay big bucks for used Compass Yukon 77B detectors due to some of the interesting ability of the old 100 kHz TR circuits to treat nails like ground and ignore them. I remember well never digging nails with my old Coinmaster 4 TR. Then the first ground balancing machine came along, the Coinmaster V Supreme. Huge increase in depth, but no discrimination. My digging locations came alive with nails I never knew existed.

Straight TR machines in "no mineral" locations like southern Florida are a secret weapon for some beach detectorists.

A little off subject but the BFO reference got me going!

I agree. Garrett has been in a roll producing some excellent value products that actually created their market niches. Remember what waterproof detectors were like before the AT Pro? That detector was an industry game changer showing a detector could be waterproof without giving up features or breaking the bank. The Garrett Pro-Pointer revolutionized the pinpointer market. And in my opinion the new Garrett Z-Lynk wireless audio system is going to be another home run for Garrett.

You do tend to hear about quality control issues with Garrett product but some of that is magnified by the sheer volume of product they sell. I think they could do better in that area but they make up for it by having some of the best service in the industry.

Different people like different detectors for different reasons. If there was a "best" we would all own the same detector. Instead, it is like cars, lots of different models for different people at different price points. There are many popular metal detectors, each with large and very happy user groups.

All you can do is determine what is best for you, not what is best for everybody.

That said there is no doubt in my mind the AT Max will outsell the Impact by huge volumes. Low cost, waterproof, good all around performance, Garrett marketing muscle, and a huge existing Garrett user base will all contribute to this. The truth is outside the forums almost nobody has heard of Nokta detectors compared to how many have heard of Garrett. You don't have to be the "best" to be a best seller. Just good across the board performance at a decent price plus some marketing muscle does the trick.

The Impact is more a niche detector for serious detectorists wanting something different. I do agree the Impact circuit in a waterproof housing would be an interesting product - nothing quite like that on the market.

Any one frequency is a compromise. You kind of answered your own question - you want to be somewhere in the middle. Say 14 kHz give or take a little. Very many "do-it-all" detectors run at 12 kHz to 15 kHz for this reason.

George Payne was one of the engineers who patented many of the basic concepts used in VLF detectors to this day. Here is an excerpt from his article at http://jb-ms.com/Baron/payne.htm (2002):
 
"The r component acts differently. It is maximum at one particular frequency and decreases if you go up or down in frequency. We call the special frequency at which the r signal is maximum, the target’s “-3db” frequency. It also turns out that at the -3db frequency the x signal is one-half of its maximum value. This special frequency is unique to each target and is different for different target.

The higher the conductivity of the target the higher will be the targets -3db frequency. Conversely, the lower the conductivity the lower the -3db frequency. The -3db frequency of the high conductivity target will also make the r signal peak at a high frequency, normally well above the operating frequency of the VLF detector. This will make the high conductivity target have lower sensitivity on the VLF detector because the r signal amplitude drops if we are significantly below the -3db frequency. Simply put, maximum sensitivity on a VLF detector would be if we position the operating frequency directly at the target’s -3db frequency. For example, a dime and penny have a -3db frequency of about 2.7KHz. This is where their r signal peaks and would be the best frequency for picking them up using a VLF detector. However, a silver dollar has a -3db frequency of 800Hz. Nickels, on the other hand, have a -3db frequency, where its r peaks, at about 17KHz. Targets like thin rings and fine gold are higher still. Clearly there is no one frequency that is best for all these targets. The best you can do is have an operating frequency that is a compromise."

The Garrett AT Max just started shipping to new owners in the last few days. It is too early to be looking for people posting lots of finds. What you have seen so far is from test users. Give it a few weeks.

12 hours ago, Walker said:

I have found several pieces of sylvanite and caleverite in the laplata mountains in southwest Colorado with vlf units and the falcon. Some pieces have masses of gold but some don't. The telluride is definitely detectable. I have some pieces I will post as soon as I have time.

Now there is some solid information - thanks for posting Walker. Can't wait to see the samples!

plus another video with a simple test on a gold nugget.....

The Garrett AT Max is now shipping to dealers and customers.

From https://www.whiteselectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/2017_5.pdf, page 3....

"NEW MACHINE ON THE HORIZON?

Rumors have been swirling about what machine White’s will release next. Some speculate that it could be a 12kHz “MX Maxxx” sold with a $200 higher price tag. Others imagine White’s going back to its roots, releasing an old-school BFO machine that weighs 8 lbs and runs on 4 C-cell batteries.

Inside sources seem to point to some kind of mid-priced, high-performance detector aimed at customers who need a deep-seeking machine at an affordable price point. Only time will tell."

4 hours ago, mn90403 said:

Steve,

What version of 5.11 did you have?

Zappos have lots of them listed but without knowing a model and having previously had that shoe I probably wouldn't order through them on this order.

http://www.zappos.com/men-boots/CK_XARCz1wE6AroLwAEC4gIEAQIYBw.zso

Mitchel

I bought them on a discontinued/closeout sale years ago - best boots I ever had for warm country detecting. I will have to go back and find the receipt to get the model. Good idea though. I will do that and ask 5.11 directly what the closest equivalent is now.

I seem to run my GM differently than most here in the states. Where the ground is fairly even I run manual sensitivity, bumping up or down a notch as required. Place before last 6 - 7 - 8 was good, with 7 most of the time, and up or down a notch as needed. I keep it right where just a hint of ground noise bleeds through. If the ground gets too variable, then it is Auto or Auto+

The last spot was a little hotter, so 5 - 6 - 7 was the magic trio. In worse ground I can imagine 4 - 5 - 6 or even 3 - 4 - 5 as being required.

The only targets I skip are ones where the meter bangs hard ferrous over and over. But just one swing to non-ferrous or no meter reading at all - dig it. Preferable of course to dig everything but the trash sometimes disagrees!

Anyway, I think some people are having issues because they fear backing off the sensitivity. However, in casual testing on a one gram nugget I found the GM at sensitivity 7 to be roughly equal to the Gold Bug Pro at maxed out gain. I only run sensitivity 9 or 10 if I have a very small area that I am certain contains gold. I wish those setting were marked in red, like on my car RPM gauge. "you are redlining sir - hope she doesn't blow"! Just too hot for covering lots of ground in my opinion without creating too much noise. Great for mini patch and crevice work though.

With my Gold Bug 2 the trial was in always being on top of the ground balance. What I am enjoying about the GM is the ground balance is not a worry other than how fast you are moving. That makes just monitoring the "threshold" (faint ground feedback) easy with only a touch of my thumb to bump it up or down as required.

Anyway, perfect mate for my Zed. Sometimes that beast just tires me out, and it is fun to grab a light weight detector and go ping some small gold, which for me unfortunately is always easier than finding the big ones.

I really appreciate your reporting Paul - good stuff.

As you say Dave not for all pieces, but what a tremendous improvement! The top one in particular I really like the before and after.....

No hand sensitivity issues with the Zed. It's hot but not quite that hot. Only Nenad can answer the pinpointer question for sure - he may drop in to comment. I personally rarely need a pinpointer with the GPZ14 but found a VLF with smaller coil handy to have around when using the GPZ19.

10 hours ago, Mike Dawson said:

Find it extraordinary that Steve found me guilty of implicating him in any conspiracy about hiding the truth about the Impact when nothing like that even occurred to me.I was referring to the general public.I have been reading all his posts about the Impact but the most important one -about testing the Impact on goldfields was not done by him.

First, if true I apologize. You never mentioned general public so yes, I assumed it was in the context of the on going discussion. It never occurred to me that you might think the general public is all involved in a conspiracy with Minelab. 

One of the first things I did was test the Impact on our goldfields. This picture was taken at Rye Patch, Nevada last year during testing. I have done more testing this year with it versus the G2 and a White's TDI SL. I have to say I am not very concerned about what the Impact does for you on your ground. All I care about is what it does on our goldfields and where I hunt, and I know very well what that is versus quite a few other detectors.

As far as ditching the Impact because it weighs more than I am used to? I swing a 7 lb plus GPZ 7000 day in and day out. My only comment was why would I use an Impact to metal detect for gold nuggets when ON MY GROUND other detectors that weigh less do as well or better.

And this? "But Steve is right when he says if Mike likes it that is all that matters.but infers I am easily pleased and the Impact is not all that good."

Mike (or is it Rob?), you have one huge chip on your shoulder and it appears to me you are looking to twist any comment I make into a negative. You have also made it quite clear whether you intended to or not that you think you know far more on the subject than I. We clearly are not communicating well with each other. Nothing of value is being said about the Impact at this point, and none of the other commentary interests me. So one last time, and I really do mean this sincerely - good luck and best wishes for your success with the Impact.

P.S. Since this is a game of one-upmanship, I got my White's Coinmaster 4 in 1972, which by my count was about 45 years ago. 

Following with interest - my very old 5.11 boots are getting more wore out every day. I just saw a spot yesterday where more shoe goo is needed. I am going to have to get new boots this winter.

Welcome to the forum - nice to have another ATX user on board!

Excellent advice above. The only way I know to learn a new detectors discrimination capabilities is to play the "guessing game". Use whatever discrimination feature you wish, and prior to digging call it good or bad. Then dig them all and see how you scored with your guesses. I promise this will build genuine confidence better for you than anything else.

PI detectors are notoriously poor when it comes to discrimination. My basic method is dig everything if I can. If that seems impossible due to lack of time and too much trash, then I just do the best I can, but I KNOW there is a cost in missed good targets. If nothing else removing trash can reveal hidden good items below the trash that are "masked" by relying on discrimination.

The ATX and Minelab GP series both have a iron discrimination feature. The Minelab's blank on ferrous, and the ATX grunts. I have personally seen the Minelab detectors blank on pretty sizable gold specimens and after that never used it. I guess that habit carried over to the ATX as I rarely employ the iron grunt feature, though I do have a bit more faith in it than the Minelab system. There is something more proactive about repeated solid ferrous grunts than the rather vague blanking or breaking of the signal the Minelab's employ. But when in doubt, dig it out!

I think reports like yours are more valuable these days than reports from somebody like myself. Good, dispassionate reports from regular owners of detectors, pro and con, are always welcome and I wish more people would take the time and effort. That being the case I really want to thank you for a well written, concise report!

No worries Jim, I think we ran out out telluride steam anyway. I sympathize truly. One reason I retired early was a nagging feeling I might not have all the miles left in me that I like to think. It has a way of sneaking up on all of us eventually. When I can't roam the hills it will be parks and beaches for me, just another funny old guy with a detector.

That is one thing I like about northern Nevada. The generally low, rolling terrain is pretty friendly for older prospectors. I just wish there was more gold!

Check out this link - all gold found by my friend Marko with a V3i and 12" x 10" S.E.F. coil. Marko swore by that coil, and I have never heard of anyone ever doing better finding gold nuggets with the V3i. I was there that trip and he was on a tear finding gold.

https://www.whiteselectronics.com/find/v3i-and-ganes-creek-gold/

I honestly did not think I would have much use for the 19" coil and was slow to get one. Glad I did now. It appears there is almost no sensitivity lost on the smaller stuff and yet a gain in depth and ground coverage. But yes, the weight is just another pound on an already too heavy detector.

Great pics and gold Dave - thanks for posting!

Like most minerals I am sure most ores containing tellurium are not in pure form, and so some may be detectable for various reasons. I can find diamonds with my metal detector - as long as some gold or platinum jewelry is attached.

You would be surprised how many posts I make on this forum are made from the field Jim. Another advantage of my move south. I don't find as much gold these days but I don't have to fight dense brush, bears, mosquitos, and rain on a daily basis either, so I think the trade is worth it. Right now my knee and shoulder are informing me that perhaps I need to to a little less detecting, not more!

Best of luck on your further adventures...

Welcome to the forum! That is the way to start out. Nothing like finding gold right away to boost confidence in your chosen detector. Thanks for posting and good luck with your detecting.

10 hours ago, roustabout said:

Any fires or smoke in the area?

Not at the moment but it only takes one thunderstorm to change that.