Steve Herschbach

Any missed signal is a misssed signal. It is no doubt possibly for wireless headphones to drop the audio for various reasons, and if that happens right when you go over a target you could miss it. My take is I won't be losing any sleep over this one. 

Right now the review is only available to subscribers but copies will no doubt show up on the XP website soon.

Here is a link to Andy's earlier commentary of the HF coils http://www.xpmetaldetectorsamericas.com/blog/category/field-tests/

Sure could have used that elliptical coil the last month to compare to the Gold Monster.

Area of 22.5cm round coil = 397 sq cm

Area of 24cm x 13cm elliptical coil = 245 sq cm (about 62% of the area covered by the coil above)

On 6/27/2017 at 7:33 PM, Vaun_c said:

how and when do you think is best to perform the FS?

I get my settings done first, then scan. Right now I am prospecting. That means a factory reset when turning on. Sensitivity to 13, threshold to 7.5 (with headphones; 7 is silent, 7 a bare buzz), and volume to 4. Frequency scan while pointing coil towards nearest obvious source of interference, like cell tower or another detector nearby. Having the pinpointer on is imperative - good call. Then finally ground balance if required.

If you have real saline water you will need to deal with it via either the disc setting or by ground balancing.

I did some checking to remind myself of something I knew but had forgot. The disc function is a "bottom up" control in that wherever it is set, everything at or below the setting is rejected. The ground balance is more like a notch discrimination setting however, only rejecting in a specific range. That being the case you always want to use ground balance to eliminate salt signals BEFORE applying any discrimination. If the ground balance does it alone, then use no discrimination. If you need to use it, use the lowest setting possible. From the ATX Owners Manual page 28:

Saltwater Operation

When mixed with water, salt and other electrolytes become conductive and may therefore cause any detector to respond as if the saltwater were a metal target. In fact, to a detector, saltwater has an electrical conductivity very similar to foil, fine gold and other poor conductors.

Traditionally with pulse detectors, to address the saltwater response the Delay/Discrimination setting was increased until the saltwater response was sufficiently eliminated. This method, although effective, can significantly reduce the detection of fine gold, jewelry, and other poor conductors due to the increased Discrimination setting.

Therefore, to help reduce this undesirable loss of detection, the ATX has an alternative method to address saltwater. Specifically, the ATX can automatically ground balance out the saltwater response without the need to increase Discrimination; thereby maintaining a better response to fine gold, jewelry, and other poor conductors. (emphasis added).

The two methods to address saltwater are:

1) Ground Balance Method: Leave Discrimination set to minimum and Ground Balance to the saltwater as would be done for any other ground. This method will provide the best detection of fine gold, etc., but will produce a low-tone response for all targets. It is important to Ground Balance the detector when it moves to a new region of the beach (i.e. from wet sand to dry sand at the water's edge).

2) Traditional Discrimination Method: Incrementally increase the Discrimination setting until the saltwater response is sufficiently eliminated, typically around 3–7. Ground Balance is not required with this method. This method will maintain normal high and low tone responses, but will have reduced detection of fine gold, etc. Reduce the Discrimination setting toward zero when moving from wet sand to dry.

For either method, the following basic techniques will help to achieve the best performance.

1. Swing the searchcoil flat and at a constant height. Do not bounce the coil or lift the coil at the end of swings.

2. Hunt the three different regions of the beach (dry sand, wet sand, submerged) one at a time rather than going back and forth between regions. This will allow the detector to be set optimally for each region.

3. Swing the searchcoil parallel to the water's edge to minimize changes in moisture levels within a given swing.

The detector may become less stable in shallow, breaking surf where the searchcoil is in and out of the saltwater. In this area the detector is encountering a constantly changing environment produced by the surf, making it more difficult for the detector to stabilize. Experiment with the two methods above to determine which you prefer, and if necessary, reduce Sensitivity to obtain stable operation.

On that last statement, note that when nugget detecting I am running sensitivity 13 and while detecting in Hawaii sensitivity at 7. 

The Makro and Nokta 9.5" x 5" DD closed elliptical design has been discontinued in favor of a open style design for the Impact, the IM24. The new design is not bouyant like the old design and so will be popular with water hunters in particular. Part numbers for the new coil are available for other Makro and Nokta models There is also a new 5" round coil for the Nokta Impact.

RC24 Black 14 kHz - Racer 1 (Red Racer) and Racer 2

FC24 Black 15 kHz - FORS CoRe

FR24 Black 19 kHz - FORS Relic

FGP24 White 19 kHz - FORS Gold+

"Righto, this is based on my last 4 or 5 trips combined. Today was the 2nd time I've been able have 2 QED,s on the ground as well as a GPX 4500 and a souped up GP 3000 to compare."

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=341762#p341762

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=341951#p341951

QED Thread On This Forum

With the effort you are putting in it is just a matter of time. An impressive pile of finds regardless!

I am using the GM1000 pretty much exclusively with the large coil. I have no issues with coil knocking but I am usually running exclusively in deep seeking all metal mode with Auto+1 or manual sensitivity between 6 and 8.

Whenever I turn on first thing each day I usually do a full reset by holding the pinpoint button down while turning the detector on. The main thing this does is return to a neutral ground balance setting. I will always do this if moving to a new location.

The Deus Silencer setting is like most filters. Nearly all work by trying to eliminate weak signals in favor of stronger signals. This being the case, applying a filter always results in some loss of depth and sensitivity. The trick is that that problem you are trying to fix (false signal) has to be worse than the problem you cause (decreased sensitivity).

The Silencer is supposed to reduce faint spurious signals created in dense ferrous trash. Let's say on a scale of 1 - 10 most good targets beep at 6 and above, but you are getting lots of distracting faint 1 and 2 signals. Increasing the Silencer can greatly reduce these faint false signals allowing you to concentrate on the better signals.

Now on a later hunt this spot is "cleaned out" and you want to find what you missed. It may be that one of the faint 1 - 2 signals is a faint good target. By reducing the Silencer setting or turning it off, you now get these faint hits. Thirty are false signals but one is that nice silver coin you were looking for. Of course they could just as easily all turn out to be trash.

Basically, I leave filters turned off unless forced to use them. I know when this is because I am ready to give up because of too many false signals or "noise". Apply just enough filter to do the trick, and no more.

As always it is an individual thing as we all have different tolerance levels both for noisy detectors and for the amount of trash we are willing to dig to get a good item. People who do run detectors noisy basically don't trust the machine to do the filtering and prefer to use their ears instead. This can be fatiguing and a judicious application of a filter can result at the least in a more pleasant detecting experience.

The original post in this thread has been picked up as a Treasure Talk entry at http://www.minelab.com/anz/go-minelabbing/treasure-talk/early-season-gold

A perfect ground balance would have absolutely no audio change when the coil is raised and lowered over the ground. If audio is produced such that it sounds like a target when you sweep the ground, you need to work with the ground balance and sensitivity. In a perfect world you eliminate ground effects with these controls. However, the worse the ground (worse meaning you have to keep playing with detector controls) the more often you have to adjust. I have been on a lot of ground where I can set the ground balance in the morning and forget it.

And then you have Rob's ground - every ten feet.

Remember, ground balance is about obtaining a smooth threshold sound. If you achieve that, numbers flashing mean nothing really. You actually do not need the screen. I can tape over the screen and run the machine just fine.

You can find good and bad commentary on any detector. Don't pay too much attention to it. Since you are new stick with a very well known name brand with good accessory availability. The popular brands all make very good detectors and with few exceptions there are no real turkeys. The bang for the buck is now $500 - $600 and if you go with a popular brand name unit in that price range you will get a good detector with good warranty support. Go with a feature list that fits your intended use.

Again, I was keying in on waterproof, so AT Pro makes sense. It is only one of the most popular detectors ever made. A lot of people own them. That being the case, more people also complain. Even though the percentage is small, the sheer number of AT owners means stuff will happen. Whatever, Garrett makes good machines and if you have a problem, good warranty support.

Similar but more expensive model the White's MX Sport is worth a peek.

If you decide you actually don't need waterproof then there are many good choices. Too many really. Here is a way to weed out a lot of odd brands and models - stick with models that have lots of online forum activity.

Welcome to the forum!

47 minutes ago, richard t said:

It will be in creek beds,lake water and every once in a while the beach

If you spend much time in and around water, then waterproof is a plus. And that makes the AT Pro a good place to start. Great all around detector. Do be aware of the new AT Max due out in August.

Welcome to the forum!

As long as the detector is acting properly ground balanced (little or no response when coil raised and lowered to ground) then I would not worry about it. Ground and even individual rocks are not homogenous. In theory if the ground phase strays too much and too consistently from the ground balance setting it is time to ground balance again. In reality however it is the audio responses that best clue you to this. Just bounce the coil over the ground, and as long as it does not respond dramatically you are good to go. If in doubt however, you punch that "Ground Grab" button.

Great review, thanks! I do like my Gold Racer.

Official word from Garrett...

"Final field testing and customer input on the AT Max metal detector revealed some opportunities that Garrett engineers are taking the time to implement. These updates include the addition of a built-in volume adjustment feature, allowing control of the detector volume when operated without headphones. (See illustration on the following page of the revamped AT Max control panel.)

Due to these updates on the AT Max, current plans are to begin shipping in August. We apologize for the brief delay, but believe that the results will be appreciated by our loyal AT customers."

The Nokta Impact firmware update page is at http://noktadetectors.com/onlineupdate_impact-metal-detector.asp

You can always check there for the latest version - currently R1_V1.13_V1.11 (System Software V1.13 / LCD Software V1.11)

Well, this video is not nugget detecting but it as close as I can get so far to the Deus elliptical coil so it will have to do....

Oops, turns out the roman coin was found with my MXT! I edited your quoted copy of my now deleted post to reflect that.

However, the medieval "hawking bell" was found with the Fisher F75. It is a small silver bell that was attached to a hunting falcon's leg. Different pairs of bells made different sounds that allow the hawk to be identified by sound. All "non-coin" items more than 200 years old made of precious metal must be reported by the finder in the U.K. and separately evaluated as "treasure". Museums can bid on these but in my case better examples already existed and so I did get mine back.

Medieval "hawking bell" found by Steve Herschbach with Fisher F75 near Colchester, England

Yes, White's battery holder.

Hmmmm.... sure looks like brass, a copper/zinc alloy. My guess is man made.

On 6/21/2017 at 11:45 AM, Hobo said:

There has to be a limit on the size of fly speck that it is practical for a person to spend the time digging.

From my perspective it is more about finding bigger gold by finding smaller gold first. The tiniest flyspeck can be an indication that leads to better things. No gold being found at all leads to an area being written off whereas that tiny flyspeck will focus the interest and perhaps lead to better finds. I promise the person that has never found gold before with a detector will look at any size gold as being a huge nugget!

I think it's the same old story - this detector is not better than that detector per se. Each has strengths and each has failings. That's why I own several. The key is to know which ones excel at what tasks and then apply them appropriately. You can pick any detector apart for its failings, but I try to focus on the strengths, not the weaknesses. I guess that's because I am a glass half full person. The main goal of the GM1000 was to produce a detector that would be as easy as possible for a novice to run while still being powerful enough to perhaps suit more experienced operators. That is the standard by which it needs to be judged, and I think Minelab has succeeded admirably in that regard. And more shocking to some of us, at a price that is extremely competitive. Currently a Gold Bug 2 dual coil package runs $849 and the GM1000 with two coils runs $799 plus includes rechargeable batteries and headphones.

From https://www.whiteselectronics.com/product/hexscoop/

"This HexScoop is built for metal detecting beaches and sandy areas. So what makes it different from all of the other sand scoops out there?

With hexagonal-shaped holes the HexScoop has an edge over traditional square-mesh construction. Each hole is laser-cut at 7/16″  – so it’s the perfect size for smaller rings and jewelry that other scoops tend to loose, but offers enough surface area to allow wet sand to fall through with a good shake.

Even though with the thick-wall stainless steel construction and reinforced handles, our large and medium HexScoops are light enough to drag behind you all day. The handheld model is perfect for getting down in the sand. Each scoop is emblazoned with a laser-cut White’s logo – perfect for showing the competition who runs the beach!

The HexScoop is offered in three sizes:

Large* – 8″ x 4.5″ opening $129.95

Medium* – 6.75″ x 4.5″ opening $119.95

Small – Handheld $84.95

*Large and medium scoops ship without a handle. We suggest purchasing a shovel handle from a local hardware store – it will float and give you several seasons of use, even in salt. Handle opening is 1 3/8″."

I think they shine in different areas. For cross country work (patch hunting) in variable ground right this moment I would grab the Gold Monster. For site specific work hunting the tiniest whispers of gold I will still bet on that Gold Bug 2 fixed ground balance and 71 kHz as having the edge.