Steve Herschbach

Dick never claimed doing illegal things was a right. He no doubt knows claims law better than any of you. There is a culture clash here. Dick Hammond is the real deal, a miner making a living off his mining claims for decades. The complaint here is not real miners mining real claims. It is people staking ground that would never pass a validity test and other people being excluded from ground. It is especially galling when they sit on it and do nothing. There are lots of things going on with mining claims now that were never part of the original intent of the law.

If you have a legal mining claim you own the mineral rights. If a person detects on a mining claim and removes a single tiny gold nugget they are guilty of mineral trespass. They are the one breaking the law, not the claim owner. Pretending claims are not valid because they do not fit some personal definition of what does or does not constitute a valid claim is ridiculous. The government decides what claims are valid or are not, end of story. If they want to collect claim fees for decades from people sitting on ground and doing nothing with it then that is the way it is. I personally would like to see improvements in the system but that is just wishful thinking these days.

You can hunt, berry pick, or camp on a mining claim. It is public land and it is multiple use. However, the claim owner has a right and duty to keep his dangerous areas off limits and to protect his camp and equipment. And they have the sole legal right to extract the claimed minerals from the ground, period.

The best way to protect claims from high graders is to be physically present and active on your claims. Lacking that, trying to capture images of them "in the act" might help. The reality is most people can't find gold to save their lives and so worrying about it much just leads to sleepless nights.

I was worried about this thread and it is now at a tipping point. You guys want to discuss this then simply state your opinion but do not cast stones at each other.

On the Minelab website at http://www.minelab.com/usa/treasure-talk/gpz-7000-ground-tracking-software-update

"It’s now been a couple of weeks since the update was released and there are already some good reports coming in from around Australia, where many users have carried out the upgrade and seen noticeable performance improvements. For everyone who has not carried out the upgrade yet – I recommend you do so, along with using the yellow ferrite as part of the ground balance procedure. This will ensure you maximise your GPZ’s ability to extract gold signals from the ground noise."

Original software – February 2015 (Control Panel: 1.0.8-57)

Ground Tracking Update – October 2015 (Control Panel: 1.2.8-98)

Metal detectors detect items that are conductive in nature or magnetic - or both. Ground mineralization and most hot rocks are related to the magnetic property or magnetic susceptibility. There are a few hot rocks that are so because they are conductive, graphite being a good example. Most however are due to differences in magnetic susceptibility, with magnetite and maghemite being stand out examples.

The source material for this chart is very technical http://www.alaska-gold.com/RF003p0189.pdf

The chart however is fairly simple - bigger numbers mean greater magnetic susceptibility and greater likelihood ground containing the mineral or rock will cause issues with metal detectors.

I also checked with Chris and his forum is set up same as mine. As soon as you register you should get a validation email. You have to do what the email says to finish registration. Check you junk mail or spam blockers to make sure you have not missed the email as it gets sent automatically.

So much for dry as a bone. 50s and rain off and on all day out towards Winnemucca today.

The Nokta FORS Gold+ Owners Manual is now available for download 

The Gold Bug 2 with 14" coil will punch as deep or deeper as any VLF in very mild ground. The intent of the Gold Bug 2 was to find gold, not just small shallow gold. Otherwise, why even make a 14" coil? How well it works is simply a matter of degree dependent on the level of mineralization. Do remember also this is not a 14" coil, it is an elongated 8" coil. Ground coverage alone is not to be underestimated.

Long story short you never know unless you try. But I do agree beardog that in more mineralized ground the larger coil can actually work against the machine.

Well, the main reason is I am a minimalist at heart. I do not like owning stuff in general and try to distill my physical possessions down to stuff I use constantly. The mini VLF pinpointer is a great concept that I try now and then to get a real manufacturer interested in. My two units were basically proof of concept things. The reality is however that small as they are they are still more than I want to carry with me constantly. My GPZ in particular would not like that much metal and a wound coil nearby. It is hard enough just having a regular pinpointer close at hand.

The Tesoro Silver uMax was the best as it employed off the shelf low cost items and is a clean compact build. http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/980-tesoro-silver-umax-pinpointer-conversion/ But I did not need a uMax for what I normally do so I sold it. I did still have a Gold Bug 2 so I rigged it up instead. It was bulkier and cost more but I had it on hand. However, I had not used my Gold Bug 2 for over a year and so it and several other detectors got sold this year.

My nugget detecting has boiled down to using a GPZ nearly all the time. However, I always want a backup detector on hand in case the a GPZ fails for any reason. I currently have a Makro Racer as my secondary unit along with me at all times. It serves not just as a backup but as my unit for places where trash makes using the GPZ more than I can deal with.

It would be easy to pull the middle rod section and use the small Racer coil to make a mini detector. Reality is I just have not bothered. These days if I feel like I have the need I just put the Racer nearby while using the GPZ and employ it to check targets.

I still think the Silver uMax is the best dedicated solution but for most people like me that have a VLF anyway just tossing one in the truck to have nearby is usually "good enough". However, I did recently try and sell a couple manufacturer reps on the idea. A factory made version would be cleaner and cost no more than a standard pinpointer. I do think many people want a pinpointer with more depth and iron discrimination.

Great set of photos - thanks for posting!

I hear you Swifty and I was just commenting in general. Your cover sure had a pile of muck under it!

The subject line on the thread was detector maintenance. One thing for sure, a good cleaning now and then is a very good thing for extending the life of any detector.

I do not know the inner workings of the tracking system. Just my opinion but I always want to use the minimum ground balance needed to get the job done. Ground balance is just ground discrimination. Eliminating a ground signal carries with it the risk of eliminating a gold signal that looks similar to the detector. Needlessly eliminating responses that the actual ground does not produce would in my opinion be counterproductive.

Welcome to the forum Clive. Good to have you here, and thank you for the great reads!

I am looking forward to more jewelry detecting this winter. The other three seasons it is gold nuggets for me.

I once again am Mr. Oddball. In over forty years of metal detecting with countless makes and models I have never had dirt under my coil cover be a problem with the performance of the detector. At least that I was ever aware of. I do of course find a bit of fine dust or grit under some covers when I pry them off but frankly I am pretty skeptical that the amount and concentration would ever be enough to make a difference unless it was pure magnetite. And that I have never seen under any of my covers in sufficient quantity to matter.

More than that the ground balance system is like a looped tape constantly writing over itself. Only newer data is retained. I believe that was part of the issue with the ferrite. Tuning over it worked initially but then the data was lost as it got written over, and a new ground balance had to be done with the ferrite. The now software version somehow insures the ferrite data is retained longer requiring less ground balancing.

I usually use quick start twice a day. Once in the morning. I shut the detector off for a quick lunch, then fire back up, do the quick start routine over again, just the frequency scan and ground balance with ferrite. I almost never touch the ground balance button after that. The only exception would be if I move to new ground with a different composition.

My condolences again for your loss JP. It is good to hear from you again however. And better yet to get some reassurances about the ferrite etc. I have done the update and I do use the ferrite now every session but I have not made time to try and determine what advantage if any it offers on my ground. I simply have faith in Minelab and particularly you as their main tester that upgrades are always worth doing. So I just do them and get on with detecting.

Thanks for commenting.

They are not my pictures to post. And unfortunately my forum is rare in not demanding you be a member to view photos. I am a member and logged into most forums all the time to keep up on news. I forget sometimes that in cases like this if I send people that way that if they are not members they can't see the pictures or sometimes even the content.

On Chris' AZO forum at http://arizonaoutback.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12293

If it is not broke don't fix it. However, the update is reversible. Test whatever targets you like, do the update, test them again. If not happy, roll back to the original software version.

Ironically I did the first major review of a Nokta product in the U.S. on the FORS Gold at http://www.detectorprospector.com/forum/topic/352-detailed-review-of-the-nokta-fors-gold-nugget-detector/. One of my comments regarded the side display on the FORS and lack of visibility while in use. I opined that a standard forward facing display would be preferable. Ultimately I also determined that the FORS Gold and FORS CoRe were basically the same detector with the Gold lacking the COG conductive ground mode. I ended up keeping the CoRe instead of the Gold.

I very much anticipated the Racer because it was billed as basically being a CoRe in a different package.

Then I got the Racer and compared to my CoRe it came down to balance and feel. The Racer has an odd angle in the handle that combined with the nose heavy attribute makes it harder on my arm than the CoRe even though the Racer weighs less. The Racer is fine with the small coil but with stock or larger coil the CoRe has a much better balance and feel - to me. So after my fuss about forward displays my Racer ended up finding a new home with Keith Southern and I still have the CoRe.

Now with the changes in the FORS Gold+ it is very much more a unique detector all its own and a much more compelling machine for the gold prospector than was previously the case. I am very interested in seeing how it compares to the FORS CoRE. The biggest obvious difference is the 19 kHz frequency on the Gold+ but also the lack of the three tone DI3 "coin hunting" mode that you have on the CoRe.

Honestly, a 4 kHz frequency difference is not all that much. I think it really boils down to intended use. If all you want is a good VLF for prospecting than the FORS Gold+ is the obvious choice. For those wanting more versatility and still good ability to hunt gold nuggets then the CoRe is the way to go.

One thing I have been trying to balance when dealing with VLF detectors is the trade incurred in choosing an operating frequency. In general higher frequencies are hotter on small gold. However, higher frequencies also "light up" the ground responses and hot rocks more compared to lower frequencies. When comparing a very high frequency detector to a more middle of the road frequency in very bad ground mineralization, the lower frequency will often be smoother operating and get better depth on gram plus nuggets. It is not a case always of "higher is better" but more dependent on the type of gold sought and ground conditions. Still, 19 kHz is a bit of a sweet spot for gold prospecting and I think this is a very good move on Noktas part.

P.S. It has been confirmed that other Nokta coils will not work on the FORS Gold+. The Nokta FORS Gold+ will start shipping to dealers around the 3rd-4th week of October so figure general availability starting in November. For more information see http://www.detectorprospector.com/gold-prospecting-equipment/nokta-fors-gold-plus-metal-detector.htm

Something we need more of is detectors that can select operating frequency at the flip of a switch. The X-Terras can do it but only with a coil change. The XP DEUS, White's V3i, and Eureka Gold can do different frequencies at the flip of a switch.

I will certainly be interested in learning more about how it works out for you.

On 10/16/2015 at 0:28 PM, jasong said:

Is that an adjustable frequency setting?

Looks like they are using the Racer body?

Also, notch filtering - cool. Assuming that is the same as notch discrim? Or is it like literally a notch filter for RF/EMI filtering? Notch discrim is something I've always wanted in a gold machine but for some reason few do it. Hopefully in their new gold machines they implement it. I like the ability to filter out higher and lower VDI's, not just all the ones beneath a certain threshold. If I'm going to be running a discriminating machine it might as well have full discrim capabilities.

Different body; note hidden cable wire in particular. The underarm battery compartment is similar but again, this is a prototype.

The notch discriminate allows individual disc ranges to be "notched out" or rejected independently of other disc settings.

The feature set lines up closely with the F75 but with quite a few extras. I am curious about the VLX1 and VLX2 modes in particular.

The adjustable tone break and ferrous volume settings are really desirable for working ferrous trash. The missing information is what frequency does this thing operate at and can it share coils with previous Nokta product?

You know, now I think maybe the machine is a bit better behaved in alkali ground. More study needed......

It actually is all about warranty. All stuff has issues, that is just reality. Manufacturers use the warranty process to determine what is not right and what needs to be fixed. Do file a warranty claim. Worst case it gets denied but you never know. And never hurts to point out you are a very visible user!

I thought the White's TDI at 5.6 lbs was too heavy. I thought the Garrett ATX at 6.9 lbs was insane. The GPZ at 7.2 lbs is getting laughable. What next, a 10 lb detector?

It is what it is mainly due to the unique coil design and battery power needed to run it all day long. I am not the guy waiting for a larger coil. I want a smaller coil which when paired with the CTX battery may knock over a pound off the weight.

I walked miles on steep hillsides all day before making that post and no support system works as well in steep terrain as in the flats. I am up for it but there is no doubt the weight is an impediment for some people. It is not a complaint so much as a wish but short of a smaller coil I am not expecting much progress. And I am not holding my breath waiting for that coil.

Now back to swinging the GPZ!