Steve Herschbach

Good deal, I am quite certain you will like the ATX Paul. One thing I only mentioned once but Keith Southern also picked up on is the audio. It is far more nuanced and conveys more information than any other PI I have used. Coins sound like coins. I am not saying it well but you know what I mean.

I have two weeks in Hawaii coming up and will be posting more or less daily on how it goes with the ATX over there. I have a lot to learn about it still. So good luck to both of us! I will be interested in hearing your thoughts on the ATX.

Max limit on a single photo upload is 4MB - if photos are larger than that just resize them. The forum will resize all photos to no more than 1024 pixels in the longest dimension anyway. If you resize the photo yourself to no more than a length or width of 1024 pixels it will upload easily.

 

The black, glassy luster and fracturing is what puzzles me. Probably not galena by what you are describing. The only way you get black galena is if it has an extremely high silver content but then it tends to be more sooty looking. Chris will probably chime in soon.

A photo would be of immense help. Does the rock signal with the disc mode on - in other words, does it read as non-ferrous? If you ground balance to the rock, can you get it to ground balance out? If so, what is the ground balance setting?

 

If you can find a piece of white un-glazed porcelain tile (a streak plate) scratch a piece of the rock on it as hard as you can. Does it leave a colored streak? Will a piece of the rock scratch glass?

"I believe the ATX non motion mode is the single tone mode?"

Yes, the ATX non-motion mode responds with a single tone. Either a low tone, or the more common high tone. In motion mode you get the Infinium style dual tone response (Garrett is now referring to this as an "echo"), either lo-hi or hi-lo.

I assume the non-motion mode on the ATX is identical to the normal operating mode on the Recon, but maybe more sensitive? Never know until someone runs them side by side.

Gold Districts of California by William B. Clark
1970 California Division of Mines and Geology, Bulletin 193

This is a relatively up-to-date and comprehensive guide to the gold deposits of California. Although a vast number of publications have been written on gold and gold mining in California, there was no single report or treatise on all of the known gold-bearing districts in the state. This bulletin addresses that issue. In this report the principal features of each gold-bearing district are described. The longer district descriptions contain sections on the location and extent, history, geology and character of the ore deposits, a list of mines, and a bibliography. Production figures are given whenever possible.

https://www.detectorprospector.com/files/file/137-gold-districts-of-california/

More free books can be found in the Metal Detecting & Prospecting Library

 

 

Hi Al,

Welcome to the forum!

"I needed a waterproof detector for floating the Salmon River here in Idaho and the AT Gold sure filled the bill."

It is the extra features that matter the most when comparing these models. You need waterproof, then you need the AT Gold. The AT Gold has a great 5" x 8" coil that no doubt made the difference in your small nugget. I did at one point take a Gold Bug Pro with the 5" round coil, AT Gold with the 4.5" round coil, and X-Terra 705 with 18.75 kHz round 5.75" coil, and test on a small nugget. The result was so close on an in ground test it really made no difference which unit I used. The mid-frequency machines (12-20 kHz) are all so close in all metal prospect mode that I now have a phrase for the new ones when they come out "Just Another Mid-Frequency Detector".

The Gold Bug 2 and GMT though are in another class.

Hi Jack,

 

Instead of using the option to insert an image use the option to attach files at the bottom of the reply box. This allows you to upload images instead of linking to them.

 

I use Safari on my iPad and I can't even see all the editing options that show up on other browsers. There is an app called Mercury Browser that allows you to set the "User Agent" in effect lying to the internet about what browser you are using. It is amazingly effective at getting websites to work that otherwise will not work on mobile devices.

"Is the ATX recovery speed faster than the Infinium? And in non-motion mode do you find yourself retuning the detector often?"

I do not currently have an Infinium to make a direct comparison with so I am going from memory. In general I would say the ATX seems to recover from a target and hit another one slightly better than the Infinium. Large items do not seem to grab and hold the audio in the same way they did on the Infinium. But by VLF standards it still has a very slow recovery time benefiting slow, careful coil work.

I have not used the non-motion mode near as much as I have intended and plan on really getting on to using both it and the factory reset un-ground balanced modes more in the near future. The ATX holds steady in non-motion mode when sitting still so there is no inherent drift going on. Any retuning would be strictly in response to changing ground conditions, and the one beach I gave it a go on seemed to allow non-motion to be used with little need to retune. However, I also noted no major depth advantage in that short little run. In other words, the non-motion mode did not blow me away but I think that is because the ATX motion mode is so good.

This is really making me want to get another Infinium to be better able to make direct comparisons. But given that the ATX is basically better in every way except physically it is hard to justify. All I would be doing is getting a better handle on quantifying just how much better the ATX is than an Infinium, and right now I am plenty happy with just knowing it is better!

The ATX does frustrate me though. When I look at it as a waterproof detector it is a home run. When I look at it as a prospecting detector I sense this hot machine trapped in an ugly body. Given that most detector prospectors are in arid regions a waterproof housing and waterproof connectors makes no sense. A machine designed purely for prospecting or at least dry land use would really be sweet. So on one hand I get really excited by the ATX and on the other it is more a case of what could be.

Just remember that ground balance is just another type of discrimination. You are discriminating out the particular ferrous type reading of the ground itself.

Now as Paul has pointed out ground mineralization tends to pull target id lower, so almost any non-ferrous item will get identified as ferrous if the signal is weak enough. Not only can gold read just like a little piece of ferrous trash, but some gold reads just the same as a hot rock. The more aggressive the ground balancing, the more chance of some gold also getting tuned out.

What I am saying is be cautious with that ground balance window and keep it as conservative as possible.

 
Alaska is trying to make as much information as possible available to prospectors on the internet. The latest offering is an interactive map index for state Division of Geological & Geophysical Survey (DGGS) maps and US Geological Survey (USGS) maps. It allows searches of the database by geographic area of interest, keywords, publishing agency, dates, etc. Results of a search provides a list of free, downloadable maps.  The current database status (a work in progress):
 
Maps published by the Division of Geological & Geophysical Surveys (DGGS)
                    Percent of DGGS maps uploaded by theme:
                    Geology  96%
                    Geophysics  95%
                    Hazards  98%
                    Other  25%
                    Resources  85%
 
Maps published by the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS)
                    Percent of USGS maps uploaded by theme:
                    Geology  65%
                    Geophysics  25%
                    Hazards  50%
                    Other  12%
                    Resources  25%
 
Check it out here - http://maps.dggs.alaska.gov/mapindex/

I like posts that get me poking around for more information. I do believe Gold Buddy has been purchased by Jobe Wholesale. Jobe is a very large distributor of many of the most common prospecting items and supplies many prospecting and mining stores. They have been buying up many small manufacturers and suppliers over the years.

The Stallion is the largest of three Gold Buddy drywashers and looks like a decent unit to me, though I really know nothing about drywashers!

http://www.jobewholesale.com/products_detail.php?ProductID=1580

Gold Buddy Stallion Drywasher

Many ads for the unit mention it coming with a free DVD, though maybe not in all cases. The 60 minute DVD is called Working The Drywasher with Mojave John. Did your drywasher come with the DVD Rick, and is it any good? Or anyone else seen it and can comment?

http://www.jobewholesale.com/products_detail.php?ProductID=597

Working The Drywasher DVD

I have a book by Jim Straight called Successful Drywashing. This thread finally made me read it! It is 45 pages in two sections. Section a-k is one page photos and descriptions of old model drywashers. Pages 1-34 comprise the actual book. That 34 pages is packed with about everything I could have hoped to learn about drywashing, and in fact I need to read it again a bit slower this time. If you know as little as I about drywashing this little $9.95 book is a good investment in my opinion.

http://www.jobewholesale.com/products_detail.php?ProductID=287

Successful Drywashing by Jim Straight

Thank you Kenny. I need to get a dedicated AT Gold page built soon, and your post reminded me of that. The Garrett AT Gold is a unique value in a metal detector. Fully featured with everything I expect from an above water detector, lightweight, yet waterproof to 10 feet. Truly all terrain, and an incredible value for the price. The 5" x 8" DD coil has gotten kudos from many people as a superb coil. It has developed a well deserved reputation for pulling non-ferrous items out of ferrous junk. A very capable all metal prospecting circuit on top of all that with a unique ground balance "window". Just a great little detector and Garrett should be very proud of it and its sibling, the AT Pro.

I am glad it is working out so well for you!

I appreciate anyone posting anything that any of us may find useful. No matter what it is, if you give it a go prospecting or metal detecting and it works out well, pass it on. And do not be afraid to post links! I will certainly check them out myself.

http://www.duluthtrading.com/store/product/mens-duluthflex-fire-hose-pants-45507.aspx

The GMT with small coil is very, very close to the Gold Bug 2 in performance on tiny gold. When Fisher discontinues the Gold Bug 2 it will be a boost for GMT sales. The GMT, however, has a better balance of performance on both tiny shallow gold and larger gold at depth. The Gold Bug 2 is better for dedicated tiny gold sniping but I would use my GMT for more general type nugget detecting. It blows the Gold Bug 2 away for depth on larger nuggets in mineralized ground.

That is some amazing work Paul. I really appreciate your posts as the ATX is a detector I plan on learning inside and out. The problem for me right now is I think there needs to be two models - the waterproof one we have now, which I am very happy with, and the light weight prospecting model, yet to be. Anyway, thanks for sharing your ideas and excellent execution of those ideas.

Hi Steve,

Good to hear from you again. Be nice to catch up, been awhile. Now that I am wandering the western US maybe I can catch up with you.

That is a superb description of all metal detecting with the Bug is hot ground. In low mineral ground it can actually be dry quiet, but get in the hot rocks and it gets to be a very noisy exercise, with lots of mental work going on. It can be tiring so needs to be taken in small steps. I like getting down and dirty with a small location at times, very focused, but most often like wandering far and wide. It all jest depends on my mood.

The Bug can also be use in disc mode which although it loses depth and sensitivity is a good way to cover lots of ground without getting distracted by ground noise. It knocks out most hot rocks. Pure silent search and more effective than people believe. I found almost all the gold I found with the Gold Bug 2 at Moore Creek running in disc mode. A Gold Bug 2 in disc mode is still hotter on small gold than most detectors.

I have more Gold Bug 2 tips to relate but am on the road today, be home tonight, so more tomorrow. Thanks for joining the forum Steve!

Ha, that makes me sound like Yoda with a metal detector!

I do like the Gold Bug 2 a lot, so much I have two of them. One to use and one "just in case". It is my go to metal detector if I am desperate to find gold, any gold at all. If everything else fails, break out the Gold Bug 2 with 6" coil.

Excellent finds there Condor! Thanks for sharing.

Hi Skip,

Thanks for reminding me. I edited the original post to add:

You can find this and many more useful free books on this website at the Metal Detecting & Prospecting Library

As new books are posted about here on the forum by myself and others the best get added to the library for future reference.

Well, the forum is off to such a nice start I took a leap of faith this morning and put in a request to upgrade my shared hosting account to a virtual private server account. This will vastly boost the available RAM, disk space, and throughput to way beyond anything I am likely to run into. Honestly overkill but it means a very fast running forum and almost no limits on files, photos, etc going forward. Also quadrupled the cost but I think it is a worthwhile investment and the Google Ads are doing well enough to cover it all so why not?

 

Anybody has ideas or suggestions please let me know. The main focus is for this forum to provide information people can really use. Anything that furthers that goal I will seriously consider.

Hi Paul,

It is superb contributions like yours that will help make the forum useful to people. That is my main goal and what I am trying to focus on - information that people can use.

I thought of just mating a standard lower rod assembly to the ATX with a sleeve at the control box. Something where the cable would just wrap around the rod but slot the cable in at the last second to make the connection. I hate that inner coil connection area though, in that it is such a pain to swap coils I avoid doing it. It would be nice if a short coil "dongle" could be fashioned, maybe only 6-8 inches in length, to allow coils to be hooked up outside of the inner control box area.

What I would really like to see is a dry land light weight ATX less all the waterproof connectors. I am not nearly into mods as much as you are but I want that detector so much I may just get another ATX and strip it down and put the guts in something much lighter, like a White's SL box.

In any case, thanks for the photos and extra information. A very sharp looking setup. I am heading to Hawaii in January for a couple weeks of hunting with the ATX so by the end of next month I hope to have a lot more time on the unit and hopefully more tidbits to offer myself. I do like the ATX a lot overall.

I have added a new page with various charts and tables about how to select the proper timings on the Minelab GPX 4000, 4500, 4800, and 5000 model detectors. There is also a set of quick links to owners manuals and more. I have enhanced the charts with excerpts from the manuals where possible and will tweak this page as I have time. If anybody has any tips to add they would be appreciated by myself and others, I am sure.

Minelab GPX 4000-5000 Manuals & Timings Charts

Much of the hype I've read about the atx makes me think it may be in the running for an all around detector but it's much more expensive than the ones mentioned in this thread. Could it be worth the difference? The compactness of it in the case makes me think I'd have it with me more often. I know you like them, but how do you think they fit in this thread discussion. Do you put in the pi class or maybe a class of their own?

The Garrett ATX is a pulse induction detector, make no mistake about it. Experienced detectorists can certainly use the ATX for just about any type of metal detecting, but I always caution people new to PI detectors to think of them first and foremost as "dig it all" type detectors. Any thought that you are getting VLF type discrimination is likely to lead to disappointment. You are going to dig junk, and lots of it, with a PI. They are usually used as niche machines, not all around detectors. I am in a very, very small group of people that use PI detectors for more than just one use.

Can I look you in the eye as new to metal detecting and tell you spending three times the money on the ATX as a first detector is a wise idea? Honestly, no. First off, you have no idea if you even like metal detecting at this point! Believe me, many people get detectors and after digging junk for a few days decide the whole concept is a huge waste of time. You say you only have a bit of small gold in your vial. That makes it real hard to recommend you go out and spend over $2000 on a detector that will not even find the gold in that vial.

I suggest you hold off and make those club meetings. Learn more about finding gold with a gold pan and a sluice box. If you cannot find a decent nugget with a gold pan then you have to question whether you can with a metal detector either. It really is all about finding good locations and having good gold finding skills. The particular recovery tool involved is not as important as those skills.

Go to those meeting, talk to everyone possible, and be honest about the areas you have access to and the likelihood that a detector is a good tool for those areas. At some point you have to decide if you really want to get a detector or not, but do it with all the appropriate information at hand.

I still believe a good VLF is a smart place to start for most people in the United States, as they offer a low entry price point and you can find gold with them if you know what you are doing. I can go out this very day, and I have almost 100% certainty that I can use a $700 VLF and be home tonight with gold in my pocket. That is including an hour or two drive each direction to get to a gold location. If I can do that, anyone that is good with a detector can also, if they have access to decent ground.

The reason you get a PI is simple. In low mineral ground a good VLF in all metal mode does much better than people think. Where they fall short is when the ground minerals get intense and especially where hot rocks are producing lots of false signals. If the ground you are likely to detect in is very mineralized and has many hot rocks going right to a PI can be a smart move as a VLF will drive you crazy in places like that unless you really know your detecting. Remember gold was found everywhere with VLFs before modern PI detectors came on the scene. But a PI is a huge advantage in many of the worst mineralized locations.

There is a school of thought of course in many areas, like the southwest US or in Australia, that would say you should just jump right in and spring for a top dollar PI. The idea is nugget detecting is hard enough, and if you do not give yourself your best shot out of the starting gate you will be hurting your chances of having any success at all, and therefore be more likely to just fail at metal detecting. There is some validity to that idea, but I have to look at myself and what I can do personally, and I have no problem finding gold with VLF detectors. In fact, I have no problem finding gold with VLF detectors where PI detectors fall on their faces and fail. The reality is small gold is far more common than big gold. The best operators can pound areas with PI detectors until they would all agree there is no gold left. Than I can wander in with a White's GMT or Fisher Gold Bug 2 and find hundreds or even thousands of small nuggets they missed. The truth is big nuggets are depleting fast, and even the PI detector people are chasing smaller and smaller nuggets. We are coming full circle and going back to VLF in many places to clean up the common small gold that PI detectors miss. There are very many locations where a new detector owner has a far better chance finding gold with a hot VLF than a PI.

I gave myself lots of wiggle room in that long answer. The sad fact is there is no hard and fast answer, no right or wrong in this. If you want to get into detecting for gold, you have to bite the bullet and start somewhere. The quickest way to success is to seek out locals, and clubs are a great place to start. See what they are doing and what they are using. If they all use PI detectors because the ground is bad, and I know the northwest does have very bad ground, then maybe a PI is a good way to go for you. But I suspect you will find successful people in your area using one of the detectors discussed in this thread, in fact I would bet on it.

I would be very interested in hearing what you finally decide to do and how it works out for you. I do promise the key to your success will be researching and accessing good locations. No detector made will do well if you can't get it into a good location, so make that a real focus no matter what you do. Good luck!

Hi Paul,

That is a very professional looking setup. Would you mind offering any details on the parts used and how you made the shaft assembly?

Thank you JP! Another year older - "sigh".

Best wishes to all for a safe and prosperous New Year!

I wrote an article on the subject in March 2013 for the ICMJ Prospecting & Mining Journal at http://www.icmj.com/article.php?id=2349

 

Gold is not income until sold. Once sold for money, you have income to deal with for tax purposes. You can run as a regular business with profits and losses, or as a hobby, which allows you to offset income with expenses up to the point where you might show a loss. A hobby business is not allowed to show losses, only profits.

My prospecting is a for profit enterprise, one that has made me a surprising amount of money over the years. As such I run it as a business. I have a business license and file a schedule C yearly. Been a going concern under a couple different names for over 30 years now.

The key is to be serious about running things in a businesslike fashion. I have a business checking account and keep my business spending separate from my personal spending.

If you are someone who is actually finding any quantity of gold it is something well worth learning about.

Business or Hobby? http://www.irs.gov/uac/Business-or-Hobby%3F-Answer-Has-Implications-for-Deductions

Hobby Deductions. http://www.irs.gov/uac/Is-Your-Hobby-a-For-Profit-Endeavor%3F

Placer Mining Business http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-mssp/placer.pdf

Now that I have retired from my regular day job my prospecting business is now my primary source of income so I am being more serious than ever about keeping a good set of books.

When in doubt do consult with a tax expert, which I am not. I used to do my own taxes but things got so complicated the last ten years I just got a good tax guy to keep me out of trouble. Well worth the money, and it is tax deductible!