Jim in Idaho

Yeah...I drew it up in 2d CAD to get the dimensions I needed for cutting the pipe sections. Also wanted to see how the TM808 fit on there, so I could make size adjustments, if needed. Did a plan view and side view. No reason to think you're a rube for mentioning 3d CAD...I use it for some things. And, I sure as hell don't think of you as a rube...LOL...far from it.

Best,

Jim

I didn't draw it up in 3d, Chase. Didn't need 3d, and no sense wasting the time on something so simple. I'm going up to get the truck out of the shop, and then to Home Depot for some materials. probably get it built tomorrow, or Thursday. The raft itself is simple. A few details to work out, but not much to it. Once built, I'll take it down to the river and see how it floats

Jim

I'm going with my TM808. Should work for this. The raft is going to be about 40" wide, and 54" long. Made of 4" ABS pipe. I'm without wheels until tonight, but should be able to get it built tomorrow. Still trying to decide on the splash shields. Probably stop at Army Surplus tonight and see what they have in rubberized fabric. Also need to come up with some plastic grommets for the fabric, too. Trying to design this right so I don't have mishaps in use. Will post pics as I go along. Also still thinking on the steering mechanism...maybe just have it angle each way, so the current forces it to each side based on the angle. thinking of rigid connections between myself and the raft, but may settle for ropes. Rigid would give more control, however. Maybe 1/2" PVC pipe handles, 8 to 10' long. Also need to decide on connection points on raft...probably slightly ahead of midway along each side. Might also need a "keel" down the center to have more surface area for the water to push against for steering....probably a vertical piece of 1/4" ABS maybe 4-6" in depth, the length of the raft. I'll test it without, first. Might also use two 1/2 sections of the pipe, mounted back-to-back, rather than the flat keel. The curve would trap the water force better. Just sort of thinking as I type...LOL

Jim

Yes...after I posted I decided I should give it a try, and it's charging now. I'll post after i try it. Thanks for the input! I haven't used my Z-Link much, so didn't realize it had that kind of range.

Jim

I've got the raft drawn up in CAD. I decided I don't want a long headphone cord, because of the difficulty of keeping it dry. I need a wireless headphone setup that will reach 15 or 20 feet. Any ideas? As always, I appreciate any help. I have a Garrett wireless, but though I haven't tested it, I doubt it will reach the distance I need.

Jim

19 hours ago, sevastras said:

That would be over $10,000,000 in gold, buy the most expensive set up possible and hire a crew! If it is actually there of course.  I would wait until the water goes down later in the summer and wade.  Also, knowing your area pretty well, it isnt too far until you hit pretty solid rock on the bottom of any of those creeks so I doubt much depth would be needed at all.  I would bet on gold stashes in the lava fields before the creeks, but I would break an ankle or get bit by a snake before I found anything.

Actually, the gravel is really deep. No way to know if the bars are actually there. The story says there were 3 bars, and one was found on a gravel bar, a few years later, by a cowboy chasing cows. I had thought to wait until later in the summer...that's a good point.

Jim

On 5/4/2021 at 10:54 AM, GB_Amateur said:

First, I did a quick calc and the size bar you indicated would weigh 121 kg (267 lb) if pure gold.  That size bar would have to have a specific gravity of about 9 (right around copper) to weigh 125 lb.  So even accounting for less than pure gold (e.g. if someone just melted a bunch of nuggets and/or fine gold) it would still be heavier than that.

You didn't say how deep you expect the gold to be, other than you want the coil to be able to be submersible to 24".

Would auto tracking work at the presumably slow speeds you will be moving this raft?  And would the detector be required to run in non-motion all metal -- e.g. what is typically pinpoint mode on most IB/VLF's?

I'm not great on suggestions but hopefully my above questions/concerns will help you refine your requirements.

Yeah..I got that wrong. Should be about 7 x 16 x 1 1/2 And, these bars are about 80% pure...what they call Dore' bars.

Jim

Many thanks! Looks like a couple of tools I should have around.

Jim

Nice work. Where did you get the tools?

Jim

I'm guessing from that the VSat doesn't have the GM3's variable frequency?

Jim

2 hours ago, GotAU? said:

This sounds fun, even if you don’t get anything. Put “the search” on YouTube and get a good actor to drum it up on the raft, you’ll probably make more ad money than gold, but who knows?

Good luck and post the results here when you are finished!

LOL...the results are going to be "I didn't find anything" no matter what happens.

Jim

1 hour ago, 1515Art said:

Jim, I’ve got an 11” Deus low frequency coil you can have if you want you’d need to pick up a controller, charger and probably the underwater adaptor for the wireless to work, but the coil being basically the detector and as light weight as it is might work for what you need and cost less overall than another whole detector.

Hey Clark, Hope all is well with you. I'll take a rain check on that offer. because of the great depth it offers, I'm going to try the TM808, which I already have. If that idea doesn't work, I'll get back to you.

Jim

7 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Might consider a Gemini 3 or TM-808 in a raft with no metal for the main hunt. A two box will ignore small targets and only get the biggies, might be just what you need.

Ya know, Steve, when I think more on this, I could probably figure out how high to set the sensitivity to preclude seeing most of the iron targets. I'm starting to think the TM808 might be just the ticket for this. Should be able to come up with some sort of cover to keep the water off, too. I appreciate the help.

Jim

3 hours ago, Goldseeker5000 said:

How deep is the creek that you are talking about. What is the name of it? Alot of these adventure detectors have a underwater depth limit of 10 feet. Most creeks won't be a problem but there are some over that depth in Montana.

LOL...I'd  as soon not give out the name, thank you.

Jim

2 hours ago, kac said:

Quickie air test between my Mars Tiger 10x13 and Nel Big 17x15 with a 2 lb lead ingot. Tone breaks from high to low 19" on the Tiger and 24" on the Big. Tone carries to to medium then nothing not much further.

I do have a lot of emi so guessing in the water you may get better performance than that and if on the Max much more depth.

The Nel Big can also double up as an anchor in case you wanted to have lunch out in the river and not lose your place.

I'd probably get WAY better simply be cause of the bar size. The lead bar I have is about 8 x 16 x 3 and weighs roughly 50lbs. Looks like I'm going to have to do some testing with my TM808, and if that isn't going to work I'll have to shop, for an AT Max.

Jim

1 hour ago, Goldseeker5000 said:

Here are the photos of the location. Somewhere in the zone of the yellow line is where the truck couldn't stop and ended up in the river because there was way too much weight on the truck to be able to stop to make the turn on the road. Also gold bars of that size would have to  be produced by a very large smelting company and a large smelting company will need alot of power to operate. Not something that a creek will be able to provide. But a large river, sure thing. The bare dirt ground in the upper part of the photo is where the smoke stake was situated. It was blown up I think in 1983-1984. I sat across the river and watched them blow it up with dynamite 🧨. I am from this town.  Gold bars that heavy  and that many would not be able to be transported on a stage. They would have to leave from where they were made by a much more robust means of transportation. The railroad goes right along the grounds of the smelter company to load copper and other metals onto a train car to be shipped out.

Wells Fargo shipped these large bars to prevent theft. This theft had nothing to do with Great Falls. The gold probably originated at Bannack, MT., or maybe Virginia City/Alder Gulch and was headed to Utah.

Jim

1 hour ago, Erik Oostra said:

What happens when/if you recover the gold bars? Do you get to keep them? Or do you have to hand them back to the original owners? Is there a time period after which the 'finders keepers' rule applies? Just asking because I face this dilemma every time I find valuable jewellery or rings on the beach, whether to turn them in at the police station in case someone has reported them lost or to hang on to them and keeping quiet..  

I'll tell you one thing. if I find one of them, no one will ever know about it...LOL As George Patton said "all glory is fleeting".

Jim

1 hour ago, kac said:

Do the 3m x 3m pi frames go deeper? Wondering if those would be easier to mount on a raft.

I've got a Delta Pulse with a 1m x 1m coil, but no discrimination. On iron it's better than the TM808, but not as good on the lead test bar....probably because of the lower frequency.

Jim

1 hour ago, cudamark said:

I'm unaware of any two box detectors that are waterproof, so, I would hesitate to use one in a river. One dunk and they're history. If the gold bars are not too deep, I would consider using an Excalibur or CTX with the biggest coil available. It would be pretty tough to modify an Excal with wireless headphones, but, the CTX shouldn't be much of a problem. Both of these choices have good iron I.D. and will go fairly deep for their intended use. If the target is 3+ feet deep, you would need something different, but, finding something that goes deeper, has discrimination, and waterproof might be a challenge.

Thank you, Cudamark. I'm thinking of the AT Max, sorta.  But, wish it had larger coils. I may just go with Steve's suggestion, and make a watertight bag to go over the entire TM808, and make an extension for the headphone cable. I've got a lead bar the exact size of the assumed gold bars, and the 808 sees it at 33", which is about as good as it gets...but no discrimination, and that might mean a whole bunch of under water digging, which would be a deal-killer. I may be over-thinking the need for discrimination, however. I'm also thinking of the DFX with a 14" coil. In Prospect mode it sees the lead bar at 30", and I could set it up to discriminate, even in prospect mode, I think.

Jim

Jim

2 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Might consider a Gemini 3 or TM-808 in a raft with no metal for the main hunt. A two box will ignore small targets and only get the biggies, might be just what you need.

Thanks, Steve! I'm considering that, but the lack of water resistance worries me. Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong...LOL But, you're right...the other attributes are hard to beat for this use. And, I've already got TM808.

Jim

According to legend, in a creek not too far from home, there are two gold bars from a stage robbery. Typical bars in these cases were 125 lbs, and would be about 8 x 16 x 3". I'm going to build a small raft, with a detector mounted on it. Said raft will be controllable by me, so it can be caused to sweep back and forth across the width of the creek as I wade behind it. I'd probably be 10-12' behind. because of barbed wire, and other iron trash, I need really good iron discrimination, and the size of the target means I don't need super sensitivity. A large coil would be a help, as would auto ground tracking. Wireless headphones would be a big help, assumin they can reach that 10-12' I'll be behind the detector. Also I'd need the coil to be waterproof to 24", Though I'm not planning on having the coil that deep. The detector being at least water-resistant would be a help. I'm thinking a lower frequency VLF of some sort, for depth, and will probably be buying on the used market as I'm happy with my current fleet of detectors, except for this specialized task. I'm looking for suggestions from you hotshots, and appreciate the help. I guess it doesn't need to be said that I'd like to keep the cost as low as possible.

Jim

Give me the 24K with wireless built-in, and a Signagraph screen like the DFX, and I'd be a buyer, and I've already got the whites version.

Jim

Many thanks, Locator! That's apparently exactly what's going on. I hadn't picked up on that. I'm going to try that, and see what happens. Thanks again,

Jim

You don't need an expensive "smart" charger. You can buy a buck converter on Ebay, that allows setting the max charge voltage, for about $30.00. I've been using mine for several years. I can use it for both my 16volt 4-cell packs, and my 3 cell 12volt pack. I can use it for any pack from 1.5v to 30v. https://www.ebay.com/itm/DROK-DC-3-5V-15V-to-DC-0-6V-30V-Buck-Boost-Converter-5v-to-3v-12v-24v-2A-15W/333937403216?hash=item4dc0386550:g:aCgAAOSwjRlgYAxb

Jim

I used Reed labs last summer. I was happy with the price and service.

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