Bill (S. CA)
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Posts posted by Bill (S. CA)
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On 5/3/2022 at 2:04 AM, George Kinsey said:
Nothing like my Explorer se to properly ID trash and find silver coins in a very trashy area. Don't have to dig it all to find out what you've found. Long live FBS Technology with a small Sunray coil. Nice.
That's interesting, George. A good friend of mine on another forum, Bryce Brown, and I used to playfully argue about which was better, the SE or an Explorer II with a Pro Coil. Bryce swore his SE was better inland and at the beach while I voted for my Explorer II with the Pro Coil. I'm assuming you had an Explorer II at one point. Ever run it with the Pro coil?
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17 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:
Appreciate you putting this out there, but since these are serious issues, if true, it would be helpful if you gave a little more detail (or ideally links) as to the origin or nature of these "posts" otherwise this just really results in spreading rumors and hearsay without objective evidence and that just creates confusion and angst amongst Legend users. Saw a similar situation take place with a recent Deus 2 update and the confusion was caused by XP not exercising version control discipline (there were no less than three different update files with different date stamps but they all referred to the same update file version number). Eventually traced the issue to an update that was released and then quickly pulled back by XP without fanfare or comms to the community so users had to do the detective work with screen shots of the installed firmware. Bottom line, the more facts you can provide, especially on the sources of these claims, the less guesswork for everyone else involved. Thanks.
Well put, Chase. I will second what Chase is saying here and put it a different way: let's everyone please let Nokta/Makro get the Legend out of the gate. Every time that they issue an update these unsubstantiated rumors seem to surface. Personally I would be very surprised if any manufacturer would release an update on a detector that reduced the depth to 1/2. Look at the Deus II. When a software revision was issued only to create larger TID numbers, immediately stories about reduced performance surfaced that ultimately turned out to be bunk.
So please everyone, with the Legend, if you install the update, use it first. For more than an hour in a test garden. Then post some relevant testing or better yet, how about posting what you found? That's what I'm interested in, what the thing finds.
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On 4/2/2022 at 5:14 AM, DIG5050 said:
Small world, Bill. I still live near Mansfield, Ohio, and have also bought detectors from Dick Noel at Earths Treasures; one of the most interesting at the time was the Sovereign, about a year after you bought yours. Deepest detector I had at the time. I guess I’m in the minority as I’ve bought more Garrett detectors than any other brand over the years, mainly because of the quick learning curve and their simplicity. I use different brands now, but still have a Garrett as a go to for some situations. Happy hunting!
What I remember most about the XS was that huge loud "bong" sound it would make when it hit a target like a quarter. I had never heard anything like it!
Funny how small the world is. I went to college at Ashland College (not a university back then) and never heard of Earth's Treasures and Dick Noel until I moved to California. Sure miss that part of the country, it's a great place to live.
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I would have to split my vote in two, one for when i was a kid and one for when i was an adult. My White's Coinmaster III TR, which me and my mom bought together back in 1972, was super fun. Nobody back then metal detected. We hunted together, I swung and she dug. We found a lot of cool stuff.
In 1994 my mom and I went detector shopping together again. We went to a place called Earth's Treasures in I think Mansfield, Ohio and met a fellow there named Dick Noel. I was all set to buy a Fisher CZ 5 Quicksilver but Dick told me to check out something called a Minelab Sovereign XS. He demonstrated the Sovereign to us and my mother looked at me and said "buy it." That detector was a game changer. Despite all of the innovations since then, I never had more fun as an adult as I did with that Sovereign. At the time there was nothing like it.
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Love this mod, perhaps XP will incorporate something similar. Makes total sense. Well done.
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I don't have a Deus II yet but a friend of mine does and he did the update. His Deus was very noisy afterwards so he contacted XP directly via email about any changes that might cause this because of the update. He was told all they changed was the large numbers and adding Chinese language. They suggested the problem could be EMI. Hope this helps everyone.
Also, I am a little surprised that Calabash Digger hasn't addressed this since he has spoken about every aspect of the Deus II so far. Maybe someone who knows him could ask him his opinion which he doesn't seem shy about sharing, right?
Bill
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13 hours ago, cjc said:
I had just seen Dilek's video on the updates and had to throw in my two cents--on the wide sounding PP (how can a beginner test wide / narrow to ID iron?) and the idea of giving it a "more than you can use" Sensitivity setting like the Simplex (good to learn what moderates it). Having run the unit in salt it has lots of power and from the look of it more speed than you could apply--6 and 7 were like machine gun fire. I had assumed that the fluidity of 60 tones would work well with this machine but it was a bit frenetic--maybe my overall tuning. 6 Tones seemed deepest in air and assigned targets well. 4 Tones also sounded pretty good--still testing. Overall --phenomenal filtering . processing--very clean and orderly. The response that it likes is brought up but not with so much modulation as to distort the size.
The FerraCheck went a lot deeper than I thought it would too. Some targets that were corroded gave a couple of FE bars too and where you saw mostly NF corresponded with a broken tone, and a response that's tuning out with a few more coil passes.
cjc
Clive,
Nice of you to add your veteran voice to the dialogue. You are evaluating the Legend the way a new detector is supposed to be tested. Keep this relevant info coming!.
Bill
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On 3/6/2022 at 10:11 AM, Geotech said:
The V3 is a counter-argument to this. It had (almost) as many controls as possible but people complained bitterly that it was too complicated to use. Even though there was a simplified interface mode (the "6-block" menu screen) for newbies and the placement of advanced features in the aptly-named Expert menus. Even adding a full interactive help system in the V3i didn't do much to curb the complaints. And many of those complaints came from dealers who were so uncomfortable with the detector they often wouldn't try to sell it*.
The issue is that the user always feels he is not getting peak performance unless all controls are optimized. So they feel the need to try to adjust everything, often for the worse. With 5 controls you couldn't get in too much trouble... with 50 controls trouble comes easy. Add to this that buyers of the V3 were often newbies who felt that if they are going to buy a metal detector then they should just go ahead and buy a top-of-the-line model and skip the learning stage.
The VX3 had a good solution that was never carried through. It is hardware-identical to a V3i but features were pared way back. But it actually has 3 more skill "levels" that can be activated with passwords, which incrementally add more features until it becomes a full-blown V3i. The idea was to sell these as e.g. $99 upgrades people would buy when they were ready. It was never offered.
But it does beg the question: If you could buy, say, an Equinox 600 today for $700 and later upgrade it to an 800 for an add'l $300 would you find that to be a distasteful business practice? I recently read that auto manufacturers are considering this, where you pay a la carte for options that are software-disabled even when the hardware is designed into the car. Surveys indicate that this would greatly annoy new car buyers. However, oscilloscopes are being sold this way now... you can buy a basic model and then upgrade the bandwidth or enable the signal generator or logic analyzer features later.
For a detector I'm thinking more like the VX3, where there are 4 levels, each of which offer a several new features that are progressively more advanced. The incremental upgrade price would depend on the price of the base model and the corresponding advanced model but, for argument, let's say $99 each and also say that a fully upgraded base model is just slightly more expensive than buying the top model from the start.
And, no, this is not a hint of anything FTP is considering. In fact, I'm certain they would not.
*At White's we were told, "If the dealer can't explain the feature, then we don't include it." I heard over & over "keep it dumb-dirt-simple." I still don't know how the V3 ever made it out the door.
Carl,
I love the fact that you brought the V3i into this discussion. I had one and if memory serves me correctly I got it when there was a coil issue at White's. My V3i had two bad coils. When I finally got a good coil I did like the detector but like many I was overwhelmed by the number of settings/adjustments possible with the detector. I recall at the time thinking that White's needed to pare the detector back for some users; I had no idea that the VX3 was in fact a reality. I don't know that I would have gone along with the $99.00 upgrade idea but perhaps this concept could have been implemented in a manner similar to the old Coinmaster 1, 2 & 3 series. Or maybe offering a V3I "dual" that would offer the two platforms in one unit. All I know is that to this day no manufacturer has offered anything close to the V3i in terms of ingenuity. It would be cool if Garrett brought the model back. They should bring you on board to make sure it's done right!
Bill
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39 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:
Why does it have to perform equal to Deus 1 in iron???
For me, if it can eventually detect as well and accurately as an Equinox while having better build quality and waterproofing, that is enough for me to consider it as a viable option.
It is not specifically a competitor of Deus.
Well put Jeff. I don't know about you but I've seen enough of this testing to last me a lifetime. I guess I'm in the minority but I could care less about finding coins between nails on a board and all of these baloney comparisons to other detectors. I've been detecting since 1972 and back then all we did was hunt with the detectors of the day. Some worked, some didn't. Same holds true now in my view.
Meaning no offense to anyone but can some of you guys with the Legend just use it and see how you like it?
Bill
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On 2/24/2022 at 4:57 PM, cjc said:
Bill --Im not a shill field tester--Im the harshest one out. But this detector has brought me around--it does what it's supposed to do very well. The rest--the physical problems are (to me) secondary. As long as it gets me the gold and my carelessness doesn't break it too easily--Im good. Overall--given some battery life, maybe some kind of a guard for the connectors--this is the best beach machine out--and probably will be for a long time. I appreciate the risk FT has taken to bring this tech to market and there's no way Im going to begrudge them for these minor issues. That would be pure ingratitude. Based upon my 40+ years of swinging--this is a gold getter if ever saw one.
cjc
Cjc,
Ah now there is a voice I know and respect. And you are no shill my friend. If First Texas and other manufacturers would defer to guys like you their detectors would be better designed and out in the marketplace much sooner. Say what you will about the AQ performance-wise but First Texas' handling of this often promised never delivered miracle machine has been deplorable. These bunglers take high end technology and put into a poorly designed shell and no one points this out until now? RIght. What they do is ignore guys like you and defer to the rubber stampers in a rush to bring the product to market. Your opinion of the AQ is one I respect. But the company that makes it or I should say keeps saying that they will make it is one I no longer pay attention to or consider a serious player in our hobby.
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On 2/20/2022 at 9:01 AM, Chase Goldman said:
Just a point of clarification, it's not "hard wired" at all The near field waveguide (antenna), just provides a means to enable the wireless signal from the coil to propagate to the remote control because water attenuates RF much more than air, there are no hard galvanic connects nor is current flowing from the coil to the remote in any situation with the Deus/Deus II. As such, the waveguide antenna just clips onto a spoke on the coil and onto the top of the RC case to facilitate the installation. For security, you can add an elastic band or zip tie to keep the coil clip in place while swinging the coil.
Because people would complain about that configuration vs. external wrapping as it would potentially interfere with the ability to extend and retract the shaft. I address why XP is never going to please all the people all the time with this waveguide thing in this post in the thread where barryny, who came up with the idea that gigmaster uses, described his waveguide mod. This antenna thing is not universally used by the majority of Deus users who do not submerge their coils in water. It's just a fact of life that when you provide a versatile swiss army knife almost do-it-all type detector, everybody is going to complain about some aspect of the thing that is sub-optimized. Just comes with the territory.
Chase, sorry for referring to the antenna as a hard wire. However, it still is a wire that is connected to the detector on the outside of the shaft and I think XP could do better. A coiled antenna wire within the shaft should not, in my view, cause problems with extending or retracting the shaft. Apparently XP is aware of this because on their new dive shaft the antenna wire does go through the fixed length shaft.
Let me clarify as well that this is not a complaint about the design of the detector. It's just a suggestion for a possible future improvement. Also, while you may currently be right about the majority of Deus users not being beach hunters who submerge the coil, that may change given the Deus II's performance in the salt. I do a fair amount of inland hunting and run across fellow hunters all the time. But those numbers are no where close to what I see at the beach. I kid you not, it's not at all unusual to find 10+ hunters at the beach on any given day, and they come in waves (no pun intended) starting at sundown.
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20 hours ago, phrunt said:
I don't know what's wrong with me, I've lost my enthusiasm for new detectors, I used to get so excited about new models, now getting one seems more like a chore. Perhaps I'm just happy with what I've currently got.
The ferro-check meter seems a bit pointless to me, it's a bit like the gold chance meter on the Gold Monster, you really can't rely on it much.
The Legend ID's seem decent which is a good sign for it. I do hope Nel make coils for it though. It'll be interesting how it performs on nuggets with it's smallest coil.
It's good to see new videos popping up from the testers again, I look forward to end user videos popping up in the next few months.
I feel the same was as phrunt at times about the new machines. Don't know if it is the constant delays, the overabundance of experts and testers or what While I appreciate the fact that guys that get these new machines in their hands put in in a lot of time doing tests, it seems that all of this "metal detecting DNA rocket science analysis" sucks the fun out of just hunting and finding stuff. Here's a perfect example. Go watch Steve's videos on the Goldmaster 24K. There is no one in the hobby who knows more about how to find gold with a metal detector than Steve, right? Yet in his videos, while he does explain some of the nuances of the 24K, his basic approach is to keep it simple and go find gold.
I'd love for one of the new Legend users to do just that. Forget the test garden. Forget the various tweaks. Just go somewhere, turn the thing on, use the presets for a while and dig some stuff. That's a video I'd watch.
Bill (S. CA)
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13 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:
This commentary and more on EMI issues gives me real pause. EMI is indeed a huge issue to deal with in engineering a SMF detector. I know because I was on the forefront of that in the Equinox design effort. It’s an extremely complex issue, and can only be alleviated, not eliminated. The main lesson I got was in how poorly designed, and how “leaky”, our electrical grid is in the U.S.
My main hope and use of the Deus 2 was going to be urban park use, but I do have serious EMI issues near to home. The Equinox was tuned to some degree for my environment, and so I know how to handle it as well as can be done, and am pretty satisfied with what I have. I’m a bit concerned now about what testing may or may not have been done, as regards the Deus 2 and EMI in the U.S., as testing in Europe alone would not be sufficient to deal with our electrical grid.
I’m going to have to ponder this at length. I’ve never needed a Deus 2 since day one, and in many ways it will just be a distraction I don’t need this summer. I still have time to cancel my order, and put the money aside for what I really want, which is a another PI someday. I’ve cleaned house of excess detectors recently, and the last thing I need is another detector, that I’m just going to have to turn around and sell.
Very interesting take on the EMI issue that seems to be surfacing on occasion with the Deus II. I'm curious if the testers who worked with XP noticed this and if XP was/is aware of the issue. Not being an engineer of any sorts, is this something that can be addressed by a software update or is it hardware related?
On another unrelated front, I find the hard wire requirement of the Deus II when submerging the coil to be a bit "goofy" for lack of a better word. Since as a beach hunter I most often search from wet sand into the water and out again, it seems to me that if I get a Deus II it will be hardwired almost all of the time. I am a bit puzzled why Deus didn't come up with a coiled wire that would be inside of the shaft, perhaps with the ability to quick connect to the coil and control box. The Gigmaster rigged up his own setup running the wire through the shaft and it looked pretty solid.
Bill (S. CA)
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Hey diggindaboot.
I feel your pain but you need to relax Everyone who has responded to your post says the same thing which is basically it takes time to learn a new machine. We have all had the "I want to wrap this damn thing around a tree" moment with a new machine. Gosh it has happened to me on every Minelab model since the Sovereign. I recall how tough it was to figure out the flutey sounds of he Explorer. Then the Etrac came along and the VDI changed. I could go on with similar experiences with Whites, Fishers, Garretts, you name the manufacturer. No high end machine will find you anything but frustration when you first try it out.
So my advice is to just take a breath and wait for your cool new machine to arrive & then give it a go. I've been detecting since 1972 and I can tell you this is just how it goes with new gear.
Good luck and good finds to you!
Bill
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13 hours ago, phrunt said:
No, but if they want to take some of the current social media focus off the competitions new releases they could release a firmware update for the Equinox right now, I wouldn't complain.
I agree nothing in pay-to-play updates for Minelab. Phrunt's idea of an Equinox update right now is a good one. Would be smart of Minelab to do this.
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Abenson,
Great post and I couldn't agree more. I also have tested my Etrac against my Equinox and have realized similar results. I loved my Etrac in its day but the way iron would give me a very slight high tone, making deep iron sound like a possible deep silver coin, just doesn't happen with the Equinox. Yes on very, very rare occasions it was a deep silver, but more often than not it was deep iron. The Equinox really changed the game.
I also concur with your views on the Fisher CZ, White's DFX and Garrett Apex. In heavy iron they are just too much work. It would be interesting to see if First Texas ever revisits the CZ series and tries to upgrade the technology. Based on their complete lack of new technology development, save the Impulse AQ (which they brought in from the outside), I have my doubts if this will ever happen. Similarly Garrett could take a run at the DFX. As to the Apex, my hope is that Garrett takes the multi used in this machine and refines it for future models. On saltwater beaches the Apex is a real sleeper, but inland it needs some work.
Bill (S. CA)
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I'm sorry, and I mean no disrespect to Luis, who obviously put some time into this test, but really? The reality is that the AQ doesn't exist. Let me say that again: the AQ does not exist. You can't pre-order it. You can't buy it. There is zero information available as to the status of this "wonder machine." However, you can buy a Deus II or Equinox right now. And either two of those detectors will find stuff for you right now. This continual "cone of silence" from First Texas regarding the AQ has reduced my interest in this supposed detector to zero. I really see no point in any further videos or discussion with regard to the AQ until First Texas decides to either make the thing or table it for good.
Bill (S. CA)
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What a sensational coin. Since he hadn't been out detecting in what, 10 years, I wonder what detector he was using...?
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12 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:
I have a Simplex it works fine in dry sand. However, being a single frequency machine, it is just not very stable in wet salt sand or saltwater. I would suggest looking at a simultaneous multifrequency detector, because that technology is better at canceling out the salt ground signal that makes single frequency machines chatty in wet salt sand and salt water. The Minelab Vanquish 440 is a multifrequency detector in the same price range as Simplex. The Garrett Apex and Minelab Equinox 600 are a little more expensive but perform well in salt because they too are simultaneous multifrequency. Nokta is about to release the Legend which is the multifrequency successor to the Simplex. It will sell at a price point just above the ML Equinox 600. HTH.
Chase summed it up perfectly. Follow his advice and you will be good to go.
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I'm going to throw in a different take on the AQ since, like Steve, I've had it with First Texas. While I agree that the AQ needs a major redesign, I blame the need for this on one thing. "Shill field testers." How many times have we heard about new detectors that are being tested worldwide by supposedly qualified field testers and right when the machines are ready to come out there is a sudden and abrupt halt? The reason is always the same, something to the effect of "minor changes, adding useful features, etc." Baloney. The problem is that most guys who test these units are just looking to get free stuff so they rubber stamp units. I'll give you a perfect example. A number of years ago a very prominent metal detector manufacturer contacted me and one other detectorist in the United States to test out a new detector. We were told that it performed flawlessly in the lab and that a team of European hunters had all signed off on the detector. To make a long story short, it took each of us less than an hour to determine that the detector was impossible to hunt with. It took over three months of our testing various software upgrades and changes before we were able to get it working. All of that was done for zero compensation and no free stuff. And it was worth it because the detector became one of the best selling metal detectors of all time.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not beating my chest and bragging. My point is that if these manufacturers were serious about building detectors that work they would use genuine, honest testers instead of these ass kissing shills they go to every time. On this forum alone, a number of you would be ideal candidates. But for some unknown reason the manufacturers simply don't seek out the honest types of testers required to really evaluate new detectors. I mean, come on, the mechanical problems of the AQ have been visible from the start and verified by users. First Texas could have hired Joe Beechnut to fix everything, right?
And so it goes. I'll be honest, I think the AQ is dead. And even if it does hit the market, who cares? The Deus II has taken any buzz that the AQ had and squashed it.
Bill (S. CA)
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1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:
This comes up with every new detector. Will it detect thin chains and small ear rings in salt water? Yes, but no better than existing models. Why? Physics. It's not even in question if you know how detectors work. I'm just tired of this one so will leave it there. Believe me or not.
Hint. If an item reads in the same range as salt water, and you tune the salt water out, you can't detect the item either.
As usual, I agree with Steve. However, I can tell you that on our Southern CA beaches I have found relatively thin gold chains, and parts of gold chains, in the wet sand with my Equinox 800 and the stock coil. In every instance the TID read "1." I've had other fellow hunters experience the same thing. This is the only non-PI detector I have ever used that could find this sort of target.
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14 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:
I’m a big fan of contrarianism in my detecting. If a place is getting hit 95% with one model, a certain class of target is cleaned up and essentially gone, but another class is also being completely missed by all those same detectors. Being the oddball person sometimes really pays off. If I’m anything I’m an odd ball
Leave it to Steve to point out my "oddball" status! Glad that a few of us share that moniker. Thanks to everybody for the replies.
Bill
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I am a frequent beach hunter of S. CA beaches and have found over the last couple of years that almost all hunters are using Equinox 800's. Not like the old days where you would see Fishers, Whites, a random Garrett and even a Tesoro on occasion.
Which leads me to the reason for my post. My go to machine on the beach is an Equinox 800 with a 15" coil. It is rock solid, gets great depth and has rewarded me with a lot of nice3 finds. However, I also have a TDI Beach Hunter. Now before I stir up all of the PI guys who will insist that a PI will go deeper than an Equinox, I'm not going in that direction. What I am curious about is the deeper targets vs. more trash targets aspect of using one machine vs. the other. My own personal experience has been that when I have used my TDI Beach Hunter, and the competition is using Equinox 800's, I am always low man when it comes to good finds. While I may be getting better depth, the amount of junk I have to dig (rusty hairpins in particular) slows me down in terms of coverage while the Equinox guys are covering a lot more area and finding more good stuff. Have any of you had a similar experience and if so, when can you justify using the TDI Beach Hunter (or a different PI for that matter) instead of the Equinox 800?
Bill (S. CA)
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Personally I think that the various features suggested, while for the most part good ideas, are more appropriate in terms of Multi-Flex showing up in higher end models. Remember that the Apex is part of the Ace series and I don't know how much Garrett is willing to put into this detector given its price point. For me, I like the Apex a lot at saltwater beaches, where it performs extremely well. Inland it can, on occasion, be a tough go and I think the suggestions\ of an adjustable recovery speed would serve an update well.
The post from Tahtsa-a-dats-ago about a reintroduction of the V3i is a great suggestion. I've thought the same thing. It would be very cool to see if Garrett could take that platform and tweak it a bit.
Bill
Having Used Just About Every Detector Including The 2 New Ones.............
in Minelab Metal Detectors
Posted
I think the Pro Coil was the only difference but could be wrong. The Pro Coil originated with the Etrac and initially was only Etrac dedicated. The coil was so successful that Minelab added it to the SE.