Bill (S. CA)

Not being a Manticore owner but having used Minelabs going back to my Sovereign XS (still miss that detector!), I personally see the Manticore being very much what I would call a "patterned" release.  What I by that it that once Minelab comes up with a new platform they implement a pattern of subsequent releases based upon that one until their next new tech arrives.  We went from BBS to FBS to Multi IQ with each starting off with a ground breaking new detector followed by derivative models based upon the platform.  This most reminds me of the the Etrac followed by the CTX 3030.  The Equinox to Manticore has the same feel. 

7 hours ago, steveg said:

Bill,

Just my opinion, but I would NOT put much stock into most reviews of the Manticore that are currently out there, with respect to how it "performs in iron."  

The reason is, the way the unit behaves in iron can be altered to an enormously immense degree (I hope I stressed that enough) SIMPLY based on your limits settings.  That is the entire POINT of the limits settings...to give the user enormous amounts of control over the machine's behavior in and around iron.  

AND SO, when you couple that with the newness of the machine (thus making pretty much EVERYONE very "green" in terms of their understanding of such a powerful, somewhat complex, and potentially misunderstood aspect of the machine), I will therefore state fairly boldly that almost NO ONE has yet mastered this aspect of the machine.  Unmasking is an "expert-level" skill to begin with, and then when you couple that with the fact that you can make many nails report anywhere from "100 percent non-ferrous tone" to "100 percent ferrous tone," and ANYWHERE in between, simply based on how you have your limits set, you can see how this would be arguably the most difficult aspect of the machine to truly master...taking many, many hours of dedicated use of the unit in the iron, before one could offer a somewhat "definitive" statement about the unit's skill in the iron.

I am not sure how many Manticore users yet fully understand the 2D screen itself (especially those with no FBS background), LET ALONE the proper (and often site-specific) limits adjustments, to even BEGIN to comment on the machine's skill, or lack thereof, in the iron...

Just my two cents...

Steve

Steve,

I couldn't agree more.  My reason for asking Phrunt his opinion is precisely because he is skilled hunter.  I'm just burned out on all of these knee-jerk YouTube reviewers who hunt for an hour and render a verdict on a detector. 

That's a beauty, George.  The old Compass machines can still get the job done if you aren't after the deepies.

4 hours ago, phrunt said:

I don't think so, while other brands such as First Texas have certainly used buyers as beta testers the Manticore seems a finished product to me, all modern detectors will get firmware upgrades to fix issues found once out in the public domain, look at the Legend, fix after fix for it's firmware, hardware issues too with a bad brand of speaker prone to failure used in the first released detectors.   It happens....  although some might argue the Legend was rushed to  market not ready for release.

I'm sure many old detectors from the 90's and 2000's could have been improved a lot after release too, the facility just wasn't there with USB updating. 

Overall so far I'm very happy with my Manticore. 

How are you liking its performance in iron?  The reviews on this aspect of the Manticore are quite varied and it is very hard to discern who knows how to use the detector and who doesn't.

Steve,

I only had this issue once several years ago.  I was looking to buy an older detector for an article I was writing and a new member PM'd me that he had one for sale.  It only took a couple of questions to determine it was a scam.   Other than that one time no issues.

I had the privilege of writing for Western and Eastern Treasures for the past two decades.  Like most writers for the magazine, I started as a freelancer.  Rosemary Anderson liked my writing and moved me up to the title of Contributing Editor and I wrote articles and handled most of their product reports and field tests for the last several years.  That's me on the far left of the December 2022 cover, the last issue that they published.

Steve, Rosemary and Logan Anderson always treated me like gold, quite befitting a treasure hunting magazine.  They tried their best to keep the magazine going and I will miss not only writing for them but reading the magazine.  For me, a magazine was a much more comfortable medium to read about our hobby as opposed to the endless number of YouTube channels that we are inundated with.

I did and no it was not louder. 

I have an Axiom that I have used several times on our beaches here in S.CA with the 13" X 11" DD coil.  These beaches were heavy with black sand.  Like you, I ran the threshold at -8 because the ground noise, despite repeated ground balancing, was too high for me.  Running the detector silent allowed me to crank up the sensitivity beyond 4 to 6/7 most of the time and even 8.  Perhaps if I had a better PI ear I could have had an audible threshold but I tested several deep targets and they all rang out solid regardless of the threshold setting. 

The Axiom is a powerful beach detector and given the right environment I would use it. However, while I was out there the Deus II guys were running circles around me because they were discriminating and I wasn't.  I did compare signals and could not find a target that the Deus II could not find, and  vice versa.  A couple of guys were struggling a bit with their Equinoxes because of the black sand but I didn't get a chance to compare signals with them.    For me, the Axiom I think will be a suitable "2nd pass after using a multi-frequency detector" or a tough environment detector.  Please don't flame me if you are a "PI's always gets better depth" hunter.  I have no desire to reopen that Pandora's box again.  This is just my two cents based upon what I observed in real world hunting situations.

I have yet to try the Axiom on the dry for microgold and will post those results after a few hunts.  I have high hope for it given it's terrific sensitivity to small gold.

Bill

I have a Stavr scoop and it is very good.

If you want to go high end I don't think that you can beat the Xtreme Scoops Titanium.  It is expensive but worth every penny.  I have one and it is all I use now.

https://xtremescoops.com/

I don't think you can go wrong with the 900 but selfishly speaking I was hoping that you would get a Manticore.  Reason?  You are right, it does seem to be all over the place but I think a lot of that is due to the number of testers all competing to be the go to guy for knowing the detector.  Having a Manticore in the hands of a a "cagey veteran" like you (noticed how I didn't say "old?") would bring a sensibility to the rather wacky dialogue surrounding the detector.

But with that being said, I will be curious as to your thoughts on the 900.

Bill (S< CA)

2 minutes ago, Doc Bach said:

Sometimes that Cat comes across as being a half a bubble off of being plumb.However his videos are entertaing and well made.

He's quirky but he does know his stuff. What really impresses me about him is that he isn't afraid to admit that he doesn't know everything, unlike many of the YouTube experts.  Plus his testing is actually hunting with a detector.  Novel concept, huh?

A very nice early assessment and obviously you know what it's like to hunt in iron.  Love your mentioning the old school but still very effective pinpointing technique to ID iron.

Keep sharing your experiences with the Manticore as long as you don't freeze to death!

When it comes to new machines, Cal, I really like the way you cover them AND use them.  I hope you can favor us with some videos when yours arrives.

Bill

A buddy of mine is thinking of buying Doc's Pick:

https://docsdetecting.com/product/docs-nugget-stalker-brand-gold-pick-the-only-pick-for-metal-detecting-youll-ever-need/

Anybody ever use one?

Bill

23 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Nothing to figure out except to note that Garrett has work to do if they want to compete in multifrequency. Apex seems more like it was done just to check off that box “we have a multifrequency detector” than a serious effort to compete on top performance. Calling it an Ace says they know that. The big question is whether or not getting the rights to White’s DFX/V3i information will help in developing a detector that does compete with the heavy hitters. Garrett is in dire need of a new flagship detector. The GTI 2500 is so old, over 20 years now, that most people would assume the AT Max is the actual flagship detector at Garrett, and effectively it is. But neither is good enough any more.

Axiom really puts Garrett squarely back in the game as far as PI detectors go, so one would have to think their focus would go next into getting that new flagship to market. No, I know absolutely nothing about that. I just spent a couple weeks with Garrett top management, and frankly it never even crossed my mind to ask. I have to admit I really don’t care. They can do something, or not, whatever. It’s their business to win or lose, and I have zero interest in getting involved in anything to do with new coin detectors. What’s on the market already is more than good enough for me.

When I talk MF detectors I mention Equinox, Legend, and Deus II. We can add Manticore to that list soon. I’ve never considered the Apex to be in the same class, and at some point hopefully people will figure out it’s just an Ace detector that works well on saltwater beaches. There is no other area where it is more than just ok at best, just another Ace model in a nice little package.

Well, Steve, leave it to you to once again sum things up nicely.  Your assessment of the Apex is spot on.  I spent a lot of time using one and inland it just has a hard time.  But at a saltwater beach it really is competitive.

Best of all is that you brought up the DFX/V3i point again.  I've mentioned this to Garrett several times but it's never gone beyond that.  You are right, they do need a flagship and I would assume they are working on one.  But what will run the MF in that unit is a darn good question.  Personally I think if they apply the same creative thinking to a new flagship detector that they applied to the Axiom we might be in for a pleasant surprise from Garrett somewhere down the line.

Interesting test, Jeff.  I've never used an ORX but I do have an Apex and a Legend.  The Apex is a tough go in trash but excels at salt water beaches.  Up until the last update, the Legend, at least for me, had similar issues in trash and struggled with iron.  The last update did help a lot with that.

Great to see you back and glad you are feeling better.  What a cool coin? What detector were you using when you found it?

Bill

What a gorgeous coin.  Interesting that you found it with the V3i.  That detector was and in the opinion of many still is ahead of its time.  It has come up in discussions numerous times and one has to wonder if Garrett has any plans to rebrand it like they did with the Goldmaster 24K.  Personally I loved mine but the limitless options/adjustments wore me out.  Wish I'd kept it.  You prove that it isn't all about super power and depth, it's setting the detector up right and knowing how to use it.  i know it's a lot of work but it would be cool to see a video of you hunting with yours.

Thanks for posting your finds.

Bill

With all of the talk about the Manticore, Deue II and Legend, I thought I would take out my old Equinox and see if the poor outdated detector could find anything.  Son of a gun, it still works.

Yes that's sarcasm.  I hadn't been to the parks in many many months with my Equinox so I decided to hit an old LA park Sunday morning just for fun.  While I didn't hit anything great, I was reminded of what a truly exceptional detector the Equinox is.  Its separation with the stock coll in high trash is just astonishing.  I hunted a slope by an old merry-go-round in Griffith Park, a spot that has been hit and hit and hit and hit for many years.  It is literally a carpet of low conductors.  If you want do dig 15's through 18's all day let me know and I'll send you the GPS coordinates.

Despite all of this trash i was able to pull out over two bucks in long-burined, dirty clad, including a 1951S Wheatie.  It was really fun and I just love the way that the Equinox can see through the trash.  The only downer for me was that I couldn't pull one single nickel despite digging a ton of 13's.  This slope had a lot of a certain type of old pull tab that read a solid 13 with good tone and they fooled me every time.  Anybody else run into these buggers?

In summing up, I'll just say that I'm interested in these new machines just like everybody else.  But this hunt reminded me of what a special detector the Equinox is and personally I am in no hurry to send it to the closet. 

Bill

I have several friends who swing Deus II's who have had similar experiences with nickels.  One buddy dug 53 in one day!  What I find curious is that none of my friends have found a single gold target in amongst all of those nickels.

12 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

The whole reason for Gig’s video was the similarity between the Equinox and Manticore charging port appearance and position on both control pods. All of his Nox control pods have leaked due to cracks in that area. That is all there is to Gig’s video. He is just asking a logical question about the Manticore based on his Equinox experience. 

Jeff,

I completely agree with you.  And I can assure anyone who cares to listen that I know the Gigmaster personally and he would never make a video to "garner hits."  He asked a logical question based on his experience and the design similarity of the Manitore.

6 hours ago, phrunt said:

That's quite a good video, a match for the CTX on deep silvers is looking very likely after hearing that video.  That's quite good, I didn't expect it to be better than a CTX on silvers, but a match would be nice and by the way he said it gets a decent jump on small gold jewellery over the Nox by the increased coil power in mild soils that may translate into sightly better small gold performance for those fortunate enough to have natural gold in mild soils, so a real mixture between the CTX and the Nox.    At the moment it's swing a CTX and miss some gold, swing a Nox and miss some silver so a combination of the two is beneficial.

It's quite possible I believe the CTX will still be best at what it does well, but having an upgraded Nox that compares more favorable with the CTX is a good thing that I'd appreciate.  In my soil the CTX absolutely destroys the Nox on deep silver for outright depth so having the Nox 1500 catch up would be great, prior to having the CTX though the Nox was brilliant on deep silver so I'm certainly not disappointed with the Nox performance on it and any improvement is a good thing.

Something that appears to ring true the more I learn about detectors is they've virtually reached their limits not only in VLF but also PI and expecting dramatic improvements in performance is very unlikely.  Going to multi frequency combined a lot of the best detectors of the time into one unit, sure the units custom for the task are often still the ones that excel and the Gold Bug 2 on tiny gold is a fine example although if I had the choice I'd pick the Nox over the GB2 for tiny gold even though not quite as sensitive, but the general purpose units are now becoming good enough for most people.

I'm more of a skeptic now after my GPX 6000 experience though, so a Muncheroable is very likely in my future I'm not going to rush in and buy it immediately, at least until I know it's of reasonable quality, as that is truly where Minelab are lacking more than performance.  Their slogan is performance is everything, I disagree, quality still matters.

My Minelab repair agent knows me now, that's never a good thing as nice as they are.

phrunt,

I agree, very nice post you wrote up.

I'm curious about your comment regarding the CTX being the best at hitting deep silvers.  A number of years ago when the CTX came out several of us did head-to-heads with the Etrac and did not find the CTX superior on deep silver.  Plus if I remember correctly the CTX did not have the high sweet tone on silver that the Etrac did.  Unfortunately the dialogue was on another forum and as usual it turned into a conflict between Etrac bashers and CTX bashers and it got way out of hand.  Did you ever try this comparison?  

Bill

You are not going to believe this, but I found a picture of an early prototype of the Manticore being tested.  Apparently the first models had a minor fire issue due to the new high power of the machine.

Honestly, claims about more power in metal detectors have been going on for decades.  I remember in the 1970's it seemed like every new detector would beat any machine by several inches.  If you added all of the claims up we would have been digging pennies at three feet deep!

To me the 50% claim is marketing.  In some tech way it might be accurate but I actually just laughed when I first heard it because it took me back to the old days.

1 hour ago, midalake said:

How are the Horseshoe Mode "on" testers doing??? 

I'll probably get ripped for this but I elected not to go to the beach today and instead ran a Compass 77B Yukon at a very trashy old park.  Just for pure fun.  Yes I dug a mountain of old ring tabs. But I also dug several nickels and a 1964 silver dime.  And I had a blast.  Sometimes for me I like to step away from all of the tech just to clear my head.  Using an old detector does the trick for me.  All you do with the little beast is turn it on and adjust the tuning.

If any of you do try this, you will be astonished how many old, shallow low conductive trash targets are still in the ground.  Targets that on occasion could be something good, just like the three nickels I dug proved.

The beach is a couple of weeks away for me right now.  Tides are lousy and I'm back to working weekends.  But as soon as I can I will be out there giving midalake's tips a try!