dewcon4414

You are correct.... rings you expect to come in very high don’t...then bang a med hits the penny range.   They do kind of bounce around which can surprise you... but all fall in that 4 to 23 range.

I believe it has to do with the jumper wire.   Same with the Xcal and CTX wired phones.   You get a lower volume if you only use two wires like on the Xcal so when we add our CTX connector to other phones we jump two pins so they can be properly used on both machines

For the most part a lot of that EMI goes away if you water hunt once the coil is in the water.   You didn’t just say drop a coin....i dig a few but for the most part am more concerned with targets around a penny and under.   Steve posted a very good chart on that MDT thread talking about tiny gold bleeding in and out of the salt range.   Most of us aren’t digging iron... but there is a trade off we are willing to make just because it takes time especially during recent drop periods.  A lot of hunters won’t chase anything that drops thru the scoop or in the very low digits because of the value of the targets.   Me.... I do just because a few smalls beats the price of change.  You just ain’t going to get it all so you key into time versus pay off.   For some that’s a easy disc pattern for others.... AM dig it till they drop

On 10/5/2019 at 7:36 AM, Chase Goldman said:

Excellent info, Dan.  Thanks.  F2 4-6 depending on site conditions and objectives does seem to be shaping up as the sweet spot and appears to be consistent with and somewhat supports the ML choice to set the F2 default to 6 for all modes.  I think I am leaning towards 5 too for most conditions but need to get more swing time in.  Bottom line I too think update 2 is a keeper overall and no longer feel the need to keep 1.5 on my backup Equinox.  They are both updated to 2.0 now.

Chase maybe i misunderstood the 2.0 update or you..... i believed it didnt change but a few things and if your detector had 1.5 those settings didnt change?  I believe you would have to go back and update to the second version....... THEN the 2.0 for those changes.   Am i wrong.... were all the updates now combined with 2.0?

Thats the one......the white one.

Heres one id like to see what others have found.    Today i was playing around on the beach with the Nox.   Havent had much time with it  so i thought id see how the F2 was working.    That got me playing around with disc.    What i noticed in disc ...... as i swung the coil it was knocking out the ferr like it should in disc....... HOWEVER i was getting these -1 and -2 iron blurps occasionally.  I also noticed it knocked out the TID for iron except those digits giving the blurps..... oddly.    Im an AM hunter on the beach.   What i did was ..... turned down the volume to 0 for targets 0 and below.    It seemed to work just like disc...... with two exceptions.   1.. you never got ANY sound from those -1 and -2 targets.   2..... the TID was still reading all the iron targets.    So.......out in the water i went hunting in AM target volume for iron set at 2.   Then id switch and go back...... doing it with disc....... then with iron volume at 0 using AM.   Far less noise from mineral...... but i got the same non-ferr targets just as clear.    I know people have asked if there is a difference between disc iron and turning the volume down to 0.   To me there seems to be some near target ID bleed that can create unwanted noise at that 0 disc point.

Very few to my knowledge have been from the battery end..... more so from the screen.... and oddly some still work when the operator noticed it.   Id think if it was the battery youd be getting a real response.    Ive had mine under water for hundreds of hours....... so i agree with Chase ...... if you get intrusion it wasnt right in the first place and we have a GREAT warranty here...... use it.    I have been reading a few more of the machines may need BURPED ....because of weak sound, there is a post of that.  Im here to tell you..... if you guys think you are going to NOT have any trouble with ANY machine you put in the salt water you are mistaken.    Plan for it...... be glad you find enough to pay for those repairs when the machine is out of warranty...... thank ML for the 3 years, it could have been 1 like on the Xcal.

I also talked to Keith at ML PA about those after market battery covers.  He didnt recommend me and has had a few machines that those may have created the problem.

BUT in disc the machine is still processing ALL that information..... its just not being sent to the headphones.   So if that box is out of the water EMI .... silent EMI is affecting those targets as well as minerals.  I like to hear everything thats going on with the machine so i can make adjustments.  You maybe using the threshold too, i dont.   You need to hear iron IMO .... if there is iron chance are its a concentration of targets you have to work more closely.   Everyone has their way of hunting that works for them..... and once learned it works very well for them.

With this machine there is so much information LOST hunting a beach in disc ..... especially over iron targets like these bottle caps.   I think its going to take time to  adjust our settings properly...... focusing on sensitivity and depth without loosing targets down deep.  You just dont know what you dont know..... so we tend to assume all is well.   Ive just been to busy having just got home to do much testing.... then left my machine in a buddies car so ... there goes another week lol.   I think ill go the route of trying F2-0 first in a small area to ID targets...... then use the beach default of 6..... then 8 in the same area to see which uncovers what.

Hummm...... they lost a step or two loosing Jammie it seems.  She got mine on a Monday......and sent my new one out that same day.  Hope they dont go back to their old ways.

Steve did you notice thou........ that BOTH were set the same in the various modes?   Soooo whats the difference?  ML recommends you run FE at 6 or FE2 at 6 in beach mode.  However i found FE at 2 to sound about like FE2 at 4.  Maybe im dreaming, but it seemed to move more of the iron tones out of the lower digits.    I think we all know DEEP non-ferr targets can move into the ferr range.    This may split the tone to let you hear targets like silver.  Was there a shift maybe moving wrap around?   I didnt find it eliminated bottle caps..... but i could more easily say thats a bottle cap ...... well except the NEW AGE ones.....i mean when its a solid 15 it is what it is.   I think a lot of people want to knock out iron..... thats a good thing on shallower iron.... but not on deep non-ferr targets.   Maybe thats what this is supposed to do.   Hard to test old vs new without having 2 machines....... much like when the last update came out.

At over $200 a pop they got to be getting pricy.   I’m still thinking... sun ....salt water and a form of plastic....things will have a shelf life ...get brittle and break.

Ive broken 3 ears off this type of material now.   Its HARD..... like plastic hard.   Crank those ears much and its going to crack ..... even thou i was told you cant break them with a pair of pliers......  ya right.    Larger coils, more torque, or pounding from rocks ect. something going to give.  I realize they want them to give as the rubber wear..... since we dont change the rubber often...... but thicker ears that wont give might be a better choice to MAKE US change those rubber.

On 7/29/2019 at 5:05 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

 The Florida crowd would be at a total loss in the Sierra Nevada greenstone belt.

Not all us Fl guys would be lol.   I used to spend my winters and late fall out West when i lived in an RV with some crazy guys who gold hunted.  You sure learn about hot rocks and changing minerals.   With any machine even with testing there will be no perfect settings.   Test a target ..... change settings.... recover target and it was 5" deep...... next target is 8" deep and there ya go making adjustments again.   Sometimes its just best to get-er-close and stop pushing buttons.

Im guessing its was still down there possibly on edge on the side of the hole..... why because he mentioned he did see the impression of the dime.   In the water i have targets disappear ALL THE TIME with the Nox...... but i know if it wasnt in the scooped sand ...... its going to be in the middle of the hole that next one or two scoops.    As a dirt digger who has to be extra careful with the dirt..... putting that dirt on a rag is important as is having a PPer.

Most water machines ive found give that SOLID ROUND and consistent digit read out on gold rings.   You can just tell.... if not before after it was dug.... you say to yourself awww hawww that was a really good good tone on that gold ring.    With the Nox having its wrap around in the lower digits i really wonder how it would read on a FE/CON screen?   Especially on bottle caps.   I think the engineering team needs to get IN THE WATER about chest deep just to hear what the Nox sounds like for themselves.   Then hand um an Xcal in PP mode and say ..... this is what we want to hear out there.   From what ive heard about this update it seems more for the dirt hunters.  IF this change makes ANY adjustments to the falsing in the lower digits where most of my gold falls ...... ill down load it.

Jeff.... on edge it depends on which angle the MEET of the coin crosses the coil.   One angle you get more for it to read.

IF they change the way it "wraps around", to me that would be HUGE for us water hunters.  It would clean up all that pesty falsing in the sower digits and i could eliminate more of the upper digits.   It appears as though they are working on those pesty bottle caps.   As far as stable digits..... for a single digit machine i think it does quite well.... especially for as fast as it is.   If it holds those digits to long ..... plain and simple you will miss targets going to fast.

Lets not leave out the obvious ....... price and that 3 year warranty over the 1 year one the Xcal has.   Which WILL make a difference.  The Nox problems right now seem to be ..... shaft, cuff, coil ears.... and water behind the screen.   ALL of which are being fixed under warranty.  The Xcal....coil wires, knobs, O rings, battery life.....most of which happen after that 1 year warranty.  Thats your dime...... and not cheap.  Then many prefer to mod them.... shaft, battery upgrade to lith, PPer, and better headphones..... taking the Xcal price tag to nearly $2000.

Im an Xcal fan for simplicity.... basicly once set up you only have to use the threshold and sensitivity knobs.   IF you mod it for a PPer ..... its changes some of what was said...... ie ... there isnt that slow NULL recovery you get from disc.... it functions more like a PI.   I believe you will find its quieter than the Nox in salt waist deep to neck deep water too.    BOTH expect to swap out the shafts.   The Xcal has a 10" coil and the Nox a 12.   MAYBE a bit more depth..... but wouldnt count on that if you are hunting in PP mode.   Why....... because you have to use beach 2... which operates at reduced power.... most times you also have to run far less sensitivity than in the wet sand.   Also...... on the Xcal..... not only is the coil hard wired..... but the phones are as well... they are good for diving... but other wise dont respond well to weaker targets.   The Nox does seem to do a bit better on smaller gold in the water and without a doubt out of the water than the Xcal. BUT.....depth.... it all gets equal in the water..... Xcal, CZ, CTX or Nox.   IF the nox gets more depth its likely from the coil size.  The Nox is a multi use machine as well...... i certainly wouldnt take the Xcal park hunting.  You have wireless options with the Nox.... TID..... various tones.   What i dont like about the Nox thou is iron tends to wrap around in the low digit range.... right where the low gold is...... the Xcal.... well it hates iron.   So if i plan on hunting giving beach..... i do it first with the Nox.... then the Xcal in PP mode. 

All said and done....... the Xcal is always the gauge when comparing water machines........ thou now its lost its edge for wet and dry sand hunting.

I agree Chase.... if it’s fixable by us it saves them money.... if it’s burping thou....maybe they would rather row the dice than have some of these guys pulling that battery if you get my drift.

Chase one of my hunting buddies did.   He snorkels and had the machine for nearly a year id guess.   He put it up for a few months while working with another machine.   Took it out and it went nuts at the beach...... water under the screen.   Im wondering if those screen are expanding based on that internal pressure?  

Smart move Steve..... im thinking the same thing.   You not only have a new machine........ but that warranty for another 3 years for that price.  That huge.... because its not only the box....... but those coil ears could go.   Im not sure what kind of warranty you have on one repaired after the warranty is out...... i assume the standard 6mos.

The lower the RS the longer the target sound in the water.   More to beach hunting than the dry sand.   Wet sand and in the water has its own challenges.   Even the dry sand when damp can prevent the use of some of the other modes.   IB.... i was running 2... which will make most bottle caps in the water almost disappear .... running 0 you still catch more of um.   Is that good or bad?   I normally run 3 on the wet sand .... but once in the water i dont care for the odd sound it makes on the hard pan, especially going up a slope.  So in my fairly low mineral locations i run RS4.   Its all about tweaking it to best suit your hunting and getting as good a performance as you can....... KNOWING there is no perfect setting.   Some days im willing to pass up say high non-ferr targets or even lower my settings for a fast recent drop hunt covering a lot of beach.   Sometimes a machine can be just to mind numbing HOT and in the long run your day wasnt anymore profitable.   In the water most of these machines are getting about the same depth....... so it can come down to what you do differently or where you do it.

Chase is totally accurate..... its sealed.   If for some reason you need better water protection...... try a couple of wraps of teflon tape on the threads.

I no longer collect coins so it more for me than for the snooty collector.   Here is a coin i found recently on an E. Coast Fl. beach.   Im told its a King Frederick II coin..... somewhere around 1500.   Did i clean it properly NO...... but its just a great find.    Those IHs are the worst about turning RED if you clean them.   Soaking them in mineral oil will do little.... it not like olive oil.  Its not a corrosive ment to clean.... its ment to preserve.

Mineral oil WILL enhance RED copper coins bringing them back to a more natural color.    Ive used it for years it came from someone i knew who wrote for Coin World.   Unlike vinegar and other harsh ways..... even long time olive oil soaking .... people tend to forget to use something to STOP the corrosive process like baking power in water once the desired cleaning is complete.   We used to just rub the heck out of coins to make the PRETTY.   Now days coin collecting has turned into such a BUSINESS...... shameful in so many ways.