Jeff McClendon

I'm 5'11". Top of my shoulder to top of pants is 23".

 Deus 2 currently has single frequency operation up to 45 kHz using any of the available coils. It comes with two single frequency programs that are just as good or better than the discrimination programs on Deus 1. I just can’t see any advantages for buying a Deus 1 over a Deus 2 unless gold nugget prospecting is part of your detecting life. I also don’t see any big reason to buy a Deus 1 or ORX over a Legend aside from ergonomics. 

Sounds like the threshold tone is ON in all modes or you have a very strong EMI source. 

I like the LG28 for water and surf hunting. 

Phrunt and I were describing small gold nugget prospecting experiences using the detectors mentioned

That’s a great question. If you were asking about a Minelab Equinox 700 vs Fisher F19 I would say the Minelab Equinox 700.

The X Terra Pro is very close to having the same features as a Nox 700 but without the Multi IQ simultaneous multi frequency choice.  So you get the beneficial features of DP tones which are 2 tone VCO audio, iron volume level choices, some just okay accept/reject functions, good recovery speed functions and excellent ground balancing along with a great shaft system, great coil choices and expensive and hard to find wireless headphone capability. Running Park or Field in 15 kHz, DP tones would be my choice along with the 6” or Coiltek 10X5” coil using nothing rejected if possible.

The F19 has just wide open VCO audio and a great ground balancing system and some good coil choices. 

I have compared the Equinox 800 in single frequency 20 kHz Gold 1  to the F19 at 19 kHz using its all metal mode. They were very close in performance.

X-Terra Pro at 15 kHz with DP tones may also be very comparable to the F19. I just don’t know.

14 hours ago, My Little Bleeper said:

That's really good to hear that the stock coils are performing well, maybe even just as well as a Detech/Coiltek would. I’m actually surprised that your experience with the Detech coil wasn't deeper, but I have never used an aftermarket coil myself and am solely relying on anecdotal experiences from others such as yourself, as well as YouTubers, etc., so I don't really know what to expect. But that's good to hear that the stock coils are on the money. Would you say that the LG24 is worth the extra $200, or do you think I should just wait to see if NEL or Detech come out with something better?

If you are in the USA/Canada, the Nokta Legend LG24 coil should cost $139 US at the most. If you are charged more you should look elsewhere for the coil.

Having used several Detech 8X6 coils in the past, all I can say is that they have been excellent coils but a bit heavy for their size.
 

I own a Legend and the L30, LG28, LG24, and LG15 coils. The LG30 and LG24 coils are very lightweight for their size, have excellent target separation, and have depth that is at least equal to their projected capability on 15 to 25 mm coins in normal soil conditions which are around 10.5 inches for the LG30 and 7.5 or so inches for the LG24.

The best depth I got on similar sized coins using an 8x6 Detech SEF coil was 7”. 

Hey, at least XP didn't pick a YouTuber from middle TN.

Merril has taken a ton of shots at Minelab so it does kind of make sense. It won't make me watch his channel however unless Gary B is featured on it.

16 minutes ago, WV CoinMiner said:

Like anything with limits contains you in a box and you must work within that parameter. No one is going to do R&D if they can't sale it. I wasn't arguing gains after a certain watt, that never left my lips. Just stated the fact there is a government reg concerning it.

And all anyone that has responded is clearly saying is that the FCC regulation does not apply since the wattage limit you are quoting can never happen when it comes to hobby metal detectors no matter where they are made due to physics, not government restrictions.

As for metal detectors whether older or newer/single frequency or SMF, I passed up on several great deals on USA eBay today. I just don't see the point in buying a USA made VLF single frequency metal detector or the Garrett Ace Apex, since I like to be able to chose between the latest simultaneous multi frequency operation and competitive single frequency operation all wrapped up in one detector that can do it all easily, like the Deus 2, Equinox, Manticore and the Legend offer. I am definitely enjoying my USA made Garrett Axiom PI detector. It's fantastic.

You can keep using and enjoying any metal detector you like and I hope you keep enjoying this hobby.

6 hours ago, WV CoinMiner said:

No, we can’t, since it’s not true. Why would a guy with so much background perpetuate this old myth? By Steve H

I got this email and am looking for the post, must have been deleted.

What myth are you referring to here? 

 

I'll give an answer about the myth that Steve H was referring to. These are not my words since I just use metal detectors and don't want to worry about who regulates what. These two quotes come from Carl Moreland, AKA Carl NC on some forums, he's Geotech on this forum and he also has the Geotech Forum.

Carl NC @Geotech

"Actually, FCC regs start at 9kHz. Above 9kHz there are radiation limits, but they are spec'd as an electric field gradient and detectors transmit a magnetic field, not an electric field. For all practical purposes, there is no FCC reg that limits detector field strength."

Carl was then asked a question.

 Question: I believe that the problem with increasing output power (measured in watts or in the case of detectors milliwatts) is that the signal from the ground gets stronger faster than the signal from targets and so if you put out too much power then the ground drowns out the target signal..........?

Carl answered:

"This is exactly right. It's a balance between TGR (target-to-ground ratio) and battery life. Even without the ground signal, it takes a theoretical 64x more transmit signal to get twice the target depth. Instead of a 10 hour battery life, vou would have 10 minutes."

Hope that answers your question about the government regulation "Myth".

 I also hope it once again substantiates Steve’s statement that the ground itself is the most important factor in VLF and pulse induction metal detecting. Having a detector one knows well is important but not as important as the ground itself. 

The Fisher F75 and Gold Bug Pro/F19 read 4 to full bar mineralization here in the Denver area and most places west of here until you cross the Continental Divide. Magnetite is really bad. Deus and Deus 2 mineralization meters are mostly full here but they seem to read a little higher than some.

Greelely, east of Fort Collins, Loveland and Aurora, the ground conditions become milder pretty quick. Most any detector will do OK on the eastern plains of Colorado.

The recently made SMFs with 11" coils will hit 10 to 12" deep US coins in the more iron mineralized dirt in my area. IDs are very good down to 10" and rock solid shallower than that. Fisher F70, F75 and F19 lose IDs at 4" depth. They call coin sized aluminum trash, pull tabs, US nickels and smaller lead like 22 lr slugs and shell casings as silver targets due to up averaging if they are deeper than 4". All non-ferrous targets have iron responses much past 8" if those detectors will even hit them.

I have dug 14" deep 3 ringers and Sharps bullets on the eastern plains east of Limon Colorado using the Equinox that had correct target IDs. Deus 1, Garrett AT and Fisher F75 users were present when that happened and their detectors got either iron or nothing on those targets and the ground there was moderate to mild iron mineralization. Those work the best here as far as getting 4" depth with decent target ID. All the rest do a little to a lot worse as far as overall depth and up averaging/down averaging target IDs.

No, it is not absolutely necessary to use pulse induction detectors for USA gold prospecting. The Equinox models, Deus 2, Legend and Manticore are excellent to outstanding gold prospecting detectors. Their simultaneous multi frequency technology can handle most ground conditions that make single frequency gold prospecting specific detectors overload and their SMF frequency mixture includes a high frequency around 40 kHz which makes hitting sub 0.1 gram targets no problem. Hitting sub 0.009 gram targets is very doable with these detectors. They also keep some great discrimination, notching and tone features available in their gold prospecting modes that pulse induction detectors cannot compete with on small gold detecting. 

I really have zero use for a Tarsacci or a Blisstool. I would consider a Rutus Atrex if they were available here for sale and for repair. 

It's always great to hear from you JP.

Thanks!!!!!

4 minutes ago, WV CoinMiner said:

Agreed, but until government regulations are lifted for transmit power nothing had been a complete game changer. 

---I don't know about government regulations for transmit power be lifted or not. I do know for a fact that the Equinox models, XP Deus 2, Legend and Manticore and even the beginner level Vanquish models are absolute game changers where I detect. No question about it.  I can understand how others hunting in milder ground don't experience that. Trust me, the difference those newer SMF detectors have made in my area of the USA is incredible. I am a member of a really big metal detecting club in the Denver area. When I first joined there were a few V3i and DFX users but most people had Garrett, FTP, Whites and Tesoro single frequency detectors. Now there are just a few of the 80 or so members using those single frequency detectors. Virtually everyone has switched to more recent SMF detectors. They didn't switch because they bought some hype, drank the Kool-Aid or just blindly followed a trend in the club. They did it because they were being totally out hunted by people with the newer SMF detectors, they tried them and saw immediately what a big difference they made in these soil conditions. Believe what you want FOR YOUR AREA, but please don't tell me what I am supposed to believe for my area. You would be wrong.

Question have you used the Tarsacci MDT suppose to be a deep son of a gun in mineralized soil according to Keith and others.

---I have not used the Tarsacci MDT because I already use recently made simultaneous multi frequency detectors with better features and at least comparable highly mineralized ground performance. If the Tarsacci had a higher frequency choice for smaller gold prospecting I might have considered it. Not now.

I read through this whole thread again since I knew I had posted in it previously. The Fisher F70/Teknetics Patriot and all of the Gold Bug Pro variants like the F19 are detectors that I really like still today. I am often tempted to buy one. I made some great surface to 5" deep or so finds using them. The F44......I owned one two different times, I gave it a fair hearing......Nope.

I could say the same for the XP Deus 1 and even the XP ORX, along with the Garrett AT Gold and the Whites MXT variants. Those are all fine detectors for the proper soil conditions and I miss them sometimes. I can remember reading on the box and in the literature for these detectors that they all work well in mineralized areas.............compared to what????

So, reality for me means that the Legend, XP Deus 2, the Equinox models and the Manticore detect better than those detectors where I live on a wide range of targets, at a wide range of depths and for a wide range of ground, beach and underwater conditions. Plus, all of them have selectable single frequency operation that is just as good as any single frequency VLF if I need or choose to use them that way. 

I feel blessed that some metal detecting manufacturers finally addressed the fact that there are plenty of places in this country and on this planet where single frequency VLF operation and even the older SMF tech just isn't good enough. This latest SMF tech has changed everything for me and my desire to get out and hunt.

I agree with Phrunt. GPX 6000 manual 8 to 10 allowed me to adjust sensitivity and ground balance for my ground conditions instead of trusting some AI in the GPX 6000 to adjust sensitivity and ground balance on the fly and hopefully get it right and keep up with changing conditions while using Auto+.

You mentioned a lot of great detectors in your post along with sound grid hunting advice that I have been using for years both for coin, jewelry, relic and gold prospecting detecting.

I didn't pay $1300 for a Whites V3i. I paid about half of that for a nice used one. It didn't work any better in the soil conditions where I hunt usually than any of the other detectors you mentioned in the post that I have used here in my many years of trying to find just one coin, jewelry, micro jewelry, relic and gold prospecting VLF that I can depend on to get decent depth, accurate target IDs and tones, wireless audio operation so I can detect without being tethered to the detector and the detector is lightweight and waterproof.

The owner and administrator of this forum has repeatedly said something to the effect that: " the conditions of the ground being detected trump every other factor" including the brand of detector, where its made or especially the user themselves.

There are places even in the USA where this ground factor outweighing every other factor exists. It doesn't matter what is between your headphone ear cups as far as years of experience or know how unless maybe for the shallowest to surface targets of the easiest kind. I live in one of those places. The only VLF detectors that come close to doing what their marketing and engineering departments claim they can do are the latest simultaneous multi frequency detectors by XP, Minelab and Nokta. That is from experience not from reading reports from places where the advantages of the latest SMF tech doesn't really matter. In those places, any decent single frequency detector will probably do just fine. Unfortunately, I don't live in a place like that, so everything you said about not needing the latest tech is just hogwash where I live.

Hopefully WVCoinMiner,  you hunt in areas where your ground conditions are really good for USA made single frequency VLF detector use. Sounds that way.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

29 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

Couldn't you have accomplished pretty much the same thing by raising the IF from 1 to 2? I mean with already having 10 iron bias levels, is a fine tuning adjustment for those 10 levels, really going to provide that much extra detail?

Iron stability does add an appreciable level of extra fine tuning detail for me when I have iron filter set on 1.

I noticed that too on the 9" and 13X11" Deus 2 FMF coils. The same may exist on earlier Deus coils, but I never used the larger coil.

I just jiggle the lower shaft a bit until the insert goes in a little farther and then let the wing nut do the rest as I tighten it.

3 minutes ago, Digalicious said:

That's what I was thinking as well. 

When the IF and its stability settings were introduced on the Legend, my testing showed the default level of the IF to be too high. Although, I can understand why Nokta chose a high default IF. I also found with the amount of IF settings, the IF stability was unnecessary, and causing needless confusion among many of the Legend users. I also found that very little iron falsing occurred even on the lowest setting of the IF. I wanted an even lower IF setting.

With all that said, I, and a few others made a lot of posts on the Legend's Facebook page, about the IF needing to go even lower, and how the IF stability wasn't necessary. Well, we got a lower IF setting for the Legend, and it looks like the preset IF on the Score models is lower than the Legend's default IF.

Iffy's original Legend/Nox 900 separation test video clearly showed the iron filter in conjunction with the iron stability setting working very well as he adjusted the iron stability setting to prevent Colonial type nails from falsing. I have had the same results by lowering the iron filter to 1 and adjusting the iron stability setting to where I need it to be in order to just prevent or just allow a bit of iron falsing. Works for me.

At least for Iffy's test setup, Nokta appear to have nailed that settings combination.

3 hours ago, Digalicious said:

Thanks for the share Jeff.

It's interesting that the detector passed the level 4 tests right out of the box, but Iffy had to tweak the Legend, Manti, and D2, to pass those tests, if they could be hit at all.
 

Iffy has already released another Score video. I believe it is a relic hunt. I have not seen it yet.

Not only did those detectors have to be tweaked, the Equinox 900 did not completely pass those tests. Maybe that was unfamiliarity with the detectors.

The Double Score really did breeze right through those tests. There was also minimal chatter. Hopefully that at least will curtail a lot of the user complaints about the current Legend using 1.11/1.13.

The Double Score has the benefit of having the LG30 coil, which in my opinion and as shown in the video above, does slightly better than the original LG28 as far as unmasking and separation. Nokta also has 9 months of V1.11 software feedback use under its belt along with being able to replicate tests like Iffy's in order to tweak the settings like iron stability that are not available for user adjustment using the Score and Double Score. 

Iffy Signals has posted a video running the Nokta Double Score (slightly simplified Nokta Legend) through his 4 level iron masking and separation test.

Here is the video.

1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

Thanks for that explanation, Jeff.  A continuous reference tone at that volume would have made my head explode regardless of ambient conditions, but it obviously did not affect your ability to recover micro targets.

At least using the VCO audio option, I believe the threshold used is not just a reference threshold. Maybe I am wrong, however, it sure acted more like a "live" threshold running the Mono coils I used. Using some audible threshold made it much easier to hear very small sub gram targets.

Most of the recent Nokta Makro detectors like the Racer, Racer 2, Gold Racer, Kruzer, Multi Kruzer, Gold Kruzer, Anfibio and Anfibio Multi have had something called a Deep mode, Boost mode and some had a setting called E.U.D (extra underground depth). Other than maxing out the audio gain, there is not a specifically labeled Deep, Boost or E.U.D. setting that instantly takes the Legend into overdrive, so I was kind of surprised when Nokta didn't put something like that on the Legend. Now there will be a one button accessible Boost mode or Boost function for the Legend.

37 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

We're you really running Threshold at 14, Jeff?  That seems really high.  Especially in light of Steve's post above.  Even in really quiet conditions, I was dialing in Threshold at around -7 max during my most recent hot dirt Axiom relic hunt.

I had a bad head cold, it was hot, I was using Aukey B80 wireless earbuds with a 1Mil transmitter (so definitely not very good exterior noise cancelling) and I left the master volume on the Axiom near default, lowered the volume on the Aukey B80s a lot, left the threshold pitch on default 50 and adjusted threshold level itself to where I could clearly hear my 0.1 gram lead test target which was between 10 and 14. With over the ear headphones that have good noise cancelling I would have been able to run the threshold and the general volume levels lower. There was some wind noise and some really loud braying mules. It was like being in a cattle stock yard sometimes! Wherever I went, those mules were not far behind me. What that means I have no clue. I was really concentrating on very small target signals that were just breaking the threshold so yeah I had it just below default 15.