Jeff McClendon

-9 to +40 =50 target ID segments and 50 tones.

Jeff

Andy, thank you so much for addressing this super important subject. I think Minelab originally included the recommendation about not needing to ground balance in order to reassure new or inexperienced detector users about the turn on and go aspects of the Equinox for most detecting scenarios. Unfortunately, I think that has been one of the reasons for some user complaints about overly chatty operation. Auto Ground Balancing on the Equinox takes 5 to 10 seconds max and can make a huge difference in depth, target ID accuracy and general detecting enjoyment. My detecting ground balance numbers at the areas I detect are usually -5 to +5. I have to ground balance or ground noise will just overwhelm the Equinox and me!

Jeff

Hi Joe76,

I totally agree with you that the Makro Gold Kruzer with all of its great features is about as good as you can get for a gold specific VLF. If I was needing a high frequency VLF gold specific detector for stream prospecting in hot ground or for prospecting where steady rain was likely, it would be my first choice with the Nox 800 a close second. It is less than $700 here in the USA and comes with a decent Makro pinpointer included. 

My test results were what I expected for testing that is as close to targets buried in the ground as I can get. From my experience, those depth numbers would probably be up to an inch deeper in undisturbed similar hot ground.

good luck 

Jeff

Hi,

finally it looks like winter is over (snowed here in Denver last week!!!!) and I got in some testing  with the Makro Gold Kruzer in my fairly nasty decomposing granite and volcanic ash dirt.  I have already used it for micro jewelry and even shallow coin hunting in Micro discrimination mode. It is definitely good at micro jewelry detecting and can do fairly well as a coin detector too in the multi tone Micro mode.

I tested three gold targets down to 4" (11cm): a .75 gram nugget, .15 gram nugget and a tiny .05 gram picker outdoors in my test bed which has buried coin and relic targets and a 1.5" by 6" PVC pipe with PVC/styrofoam insert buried vertically in the test bed that I can remove, insert a small target and replace for in ground nugget testing at different depths. 

I used Gen mode, gain on 89, threshold on 7, ISAT 2, and bumped the tone pitch up to 50 to give it a higher zippy pitch. Ground balanced at 87 with 4 of 5 bars mineralization so almost in the hot zone mineralization wise. In fact if I ran the gain any higher the Gold Kruzer would go into overload. I used the 10x5 concentric and the 7x4 DD. The results were almost the same.

.75 gram nugget was loud and clear down to 3" and was easily detectable at 4" with a quiet zip.

.15 gram nugget was loud and clear at 2" and was easily detectable at 3" with a quiet zip.

.05 gram picker could only be detected at 1" or less. Any deeper was not possible.

I did the same test with my XP ORX and used similar settings especially gain at 85. I could have run it higher with no problems. It ground balanced to similar numbers in both Gold 1 at 31kHz and Gold 2 at 74kHz and had 2/3rds to 3/4ths mineralization bar filled. The results were similar in both modes with Gold 2 being better at the tiny picker.

.75 gram nugget screamed at 4"

.15 gram nugget was loud and clear at 3"

.05 gram picker was easily detectable at 1.5" in Gold 2 and 1" in Gold 1

The Makro Gold Kruzer was similar to the Gold Racer results wise. I wish the ORX was waterproof...............

Jeff

Hi,

everything that has been said before has worked for me.  I have had to turn sensitivity/gain down to 8 or 10 in a few places here in the Denver area. Even in the moderate to high mineralization and EMI here, the Nox will still hit 6" to 8" coin sized targets with ease. Some other detectors I've used at these sites made by FTP, Tesoro, Whites and Garrett could not cope with the EMI plus high mineralization and were unusable.

Jeff 

On 4/29/2019 at 3:39 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

I heard rumors at a recent GPAA gold show that Minelab was releasing a low to mid range detector to counter and one up the Simplex. So, something Multi IQ between the Go-Find/X-Terra  and the Equinox.

 

Jeff

Maybe the Minelab dealer from the Chicago area was not joking!!! He got the Multi IQ/Vflex possibly wrong but he was close. I try to give good info when I can. Never thought I would get backup from MD Hunter..........

Jeff

medium tone to high tone break is 75.  Zinc penny starts at 80

jeff

Hi Chase,

my Bad!!!  I should have just said that the same large numerical target ID screen is used for all the modes on the ORX. Yes, there are numerical target IDs displayed in Gold Field on the Deus. Depending on which visualization screen one is using the numerical target IDs are medium sized characters to extremely tiny - 1/8" characters. I usually used the XY graph when prospecting to get an easy to read visualization with no other clutter. I never even remember getting a numerical target ID up in the top right corner of the screen. I probably would not have been able to see it anyway without magnification. The ORX seems to be tailor made for me and my age related worsening eyesight..... 

thanks for the correction...

Jeff

Nokta Simplex sounds like a great detector but it has not been released yet. 

Fisher F44 is in your price range and you could get an F-Pulse pinpointer to go with it. Some vendors like Serious Detecting, Big Boy Hobbies etc. might make you a nice bundle deal. 5 year warranty. Water resistant control box and waterproof coils. This detector is not the deepest but it is an excellent buy and has a large selection of FTP and aftermarket coils to choose from.

Same for the Teknetics T2+ or Teknetics Patriot. 5 year warranty. Very powerful, fast detectors.

The F4 is older tech, just like the X-Terra. The X-Terra is a great detector but has very slow recovery speed/separation.

The Whites Treasure Pro is okay but it also suffers from slow recovery speed and target separation.

You can definitely find an AT Pro in your price range if you bargain with the dealers. Again it is older, somewhat slower tech/recovery speed and separation.

Makro Racer 2 is awesome So is the newer Makro Kruzer. You can probably find one just above your price range.

Jeff

Great finds and an excellent site choice for hunting. Glad to see you digging all of those zinc pennies. Some of my best finds with the Nox have been targets in the zinc penny range that I would not have found if I ignored them. I dig as many penny signals as I can stand during a session especially if I just get a single 19 or 20 or 21 reading with no jumping numbers.

thanks for posting.

Jeff

Hi Dave,

I am not even going to try to give any hints (not being a beach hunter, you have already said you don't want to hear anything I have to say). I am going to make a general statement which is that default Beach 2 is by far the most chatty of the Park, Field and Beach modes in my high EMI detecting areas.

Like Steve and Chase, my remaining productive detecting time due to my age is too short for me to even consider using much less owning a detector that doesn't suit me for the majority of my detecting scenarios. If I can't trust it or if it has as many shortcomings as you have described, it's gone..............

Jeff

Hi Rob,

thanks for letting me know which coil you have. I think the HF round coil is a great coil. It is definitely a little deeper than the elliptical coil and covers a little more area too which is why it may appear to not separate targets as well as the elliptical. If I was a relic/coin/jewelry hunter only, I would definitely use the coil you have.

The ORX back phones were uncomfortable on my really big head until I realized that I could unhinge the back of the head part and fold it down on my neck. I also bent the plastic by hand around the ear pieces so they would not rub on my ears as much. I think they are starting to feel better especially if I put them on first and then put on my sunglasses.

I had a T2 for awhile. Due to its susceptibility to EMI no matter how I set it up,  it was a no go for me.

Jeff

Hi,

You did not mention what size coil you are using on your ORX. I have the 10X5" HF elliptical coil which separates extremely well. I have the 6" coil for my Equinox which also is outstanding. You could get the little 5" Greek/Gold Bug Pro round elliptical for your Minuteman for less that $50 if you shop carefully. It would make the Minuteman very handy in tight spaces. All three of these detectors do very well around large metal posts, etc. if you turn the sensitivity down to about 1/3 or less of maximum from my experience, while swinging the coil towards the metal object and listening for double beeps or single beeps. The Tesoros are no different in that regard, again from experience.

Since your budget is $600 or less, the two that I would have suggested are out = (Etrac or CTX 3030). Those two give you a lot more on screen information that could help with determining the identification of a target before you dig. They are not anything close to perfect however.  The Outlaw and many other Tesoros are outstanding at separating targets and they have good discrimination. However, just like the ORX and the Equinox, they will not do all the work for you. In fact, most of the Tesoros require a lot more work from the user than the ORX and especially the Equinox. You have to learn what the qualities within the single tone (most Tesoros like the Outlaw, are single tone audio) are telling you and work the discrimination knob a lot. You are up against THE problem here which is too many good targets and too many trash targets create virtually the same response on most detectors under $1000. After hundreds of hours on a Tesoro Silver microMax I was just about able to predict what the target was if it wasn't too deep by the audio response and the position of the discrimination knob. After thousands of hours on the Nox, I am rarely surprised unless the target hits in the 18 to 23 range with numbers that don't jump around. Many nice finds come from that range. After less than three hundred hours on the ORX and Deus combined, I am just beginning to be able to guess.........

As far as I know there is NO detector that can do what you are asking in your price range or really any price range as far as VLFs are concerned. Many manufacturers have detectors with displays that make you believe that you have detected a particular target by having labeled bins or actual words that appear on the screen. To me, those are just gimmicks and in that trashy target range that you are complaining about those "aids" are fairly useless. You have owned (Equinox) and own in the ORX/Deus two of the best detectors ever for doing just what you are asking for in this thread. The Minuteman is also very good and really reminds me of a Tesoro with a screen, target ID, discrimination and multi tone audio.  All three of these treat you like a grown-up and require you to learn and remember from long experience, the target ID numbers and audio responses. That is what it is all about. You have to be the ultimate discriminator of targets.....not the detector. Maybe there will be some kind of x-ray visual imaging detector that we can all afford before too long. That however would take the fun and more importantly the skill and artistry out of detecting in my opinion.

good luck,

Jeff

Hi,

this is an update with some corrections of previously stated information in this thread after very preliminary testing of the ORX using the HF elliptical coil.

ID Normalization is definitely on full-time with the HF coil. Shifting frequencies on surface to 4" deep coin sized targets (used a nickel and quarter) in my test bed did not result in any major changes of target IDs. They stayed roughly the same with only slight up averaging on deeper targets. After 4" in my dirt (ground mineral bar on the ORX is up to 2/3 filled) only the Nox will ID a nickel with any accuracy. Target IDs also stayed the same when changing between the four search modes regardless of frequency used. So even in the gold modes the target IDs remained the same. Nickel=61-63, zinc penny=85-86, copper penny/clad dime/mercury dime=90-92, clad quarter=95-96. One of my biggest complaints with the Deus using the HF coils was the complete lack of ID normalization which resulted in a tiny target window for most US coins between 90 and 95 and high tones on almost all targets that weren't on the surface.

Tone Breaks are adjustable for the lowest tone. You can put it anywhere from 0 to 99 by changing the discrimination. So for instance, if you set you discrimination on zero in either of the coin modes you will not have a low tone for any target above zero. Medium tone starts at the highest number of the user set discrimination level and goes up to 75 where high tone begins.

Audio Modulation does exist on the ORX. In the 3 tone coin modes surface to shallow targets have much louder and broader responses and deeper targets have progressively softer and shorter responses. In the single tone gold modes the same holds true. It is similar for pinpoint mode. Surface to shallow coin sized targets produce strong higher pitches and deeper or very small targets produce much softer and lower pitches.

A Depth Meter of sorts does exist on the ORX. It is built into the pinpoint function just like on the Deus. I have only tested this on coin sized objects. Surface to shallow (0 to 3") coins pinpointed will fill in or almost fill in the pinpoint target box. Deeper to very deep coin sized targets (4 to 8") will only fill in less than half to only 1/8 or less of the pinpoint target box.

The updated armrest and shaft are amazingly lightweight. I know that there is only a 2 ounce weight difference but to me it feels like a lot compared to the Deus.

Jeff

I heard rumors at a recent GPAA gold show that Minelab was releasing a low to mid range detector to counter and one up the Simplex. So, something Multi IQ between the Go-Find/X-Terra  and the Equinox.

Jeff

From experience and from the manual, there is no change in the target ID number or the depth reading after you press the pinpoint button. The number you see and the depth reading are just the last number and depth reading remembered by the Nox before you pressed the pinpoint button. If you happen to press the pinpoint button without having detected a recent target or you have to press it again because of the weird ghosting that sometimes happens (one of the issues GB Amateur was referring to) you will get no depth reading and the two dashes _ _.

So, the only thing that you should pay attention to when Nox pinpointing is the highest pitched tone and the filling in of the speedometer arch.

Jeff

According to the XP ORX questions answered site ID normalization is always ON and automatically normalizes IDs for both HF and X35 coils and frequencies. If so, that is a major improvement over the constant up averaging, especially using the HF coils on the Deus. At least in the discrimination modes on the Deus, it always seemed to me that the HF coils were only partially integrated software wise. They seem to be fully supported on the ORX 

In both ORX Gold modes target IDs are displayed, another helpful difference from the Deus Gold mode.

thanks for this informative thread.

Jeff

I got to sort of demo a new gold prospecting detector today at the GPAA Gold Show in Denver. The dealer could not tell me any details about it other than it is basically a Goldmaster 24K in a fully waterproof MXSport body. It looked like an MXSport with a slightly bigger control box that had similar display and controls that looked like the 24K. It was labeled GMX.  Looked very nice. Whites will be releasing it soon.

Jeff

White's GMX Sport Data & Specifications

Hi

I haven’t been able to tryout the 24k yet.........hope to soon. I have used the GM 1000, the Nox 800 and the XP Deus with high frequency coil for prospecting. I still have the  Nox 800. I recently purchased a Makro Gold Kruzer after the 15% price drop here in the USA. It has the one thing that the Nox is missing: a threshold based all metal mode at 61 kHz. So far I really like it even for coin hunting and especially for micro jewelry in its three tone discrimination mode. It is an option to definitely consider. Jeff 

Hi Peter,

I would like to know how your Nox situation turns out and what Minelab service department suggested for a fix.

Glad to see you on this great forum.

Jeff

Hi 

in the USA in Oklahoma we find Barite crystal formations with sand coatings that are called Barite Roses. Selenite (gypsum) and Calcite crystal clusters can also form under similar circumstances with sand coatings and inclusions. 

Jeff

Thanks Rob. I love my 1/4 inch plug with adaptor Gray Ghosts on my Nox and GPX 4800. They even make my F44 sound good. They would be awesome on the Gold Monster!!!!!!!!!

Jeff McClendon

Hi,

I have several friends who use V3is.  I have been able to mess around with one for awhile. What an incredible detector!!!! I wish Whites could condense it down into a much smaller and lighter detector, a sentiment expressed by many others.

I have used the Equinox and XP Deus extensively. I recently sold my Deus simply because the Nox fits my detecting needs better. The Nox ability to go deep in high mineralization with solid target and tone ID as opposed to the Deus is obvious to anyone that has used both in similar circumstances. I was on a hunt yesterday with two Deus users and my 800 was the go to detector for the deep iffy targets that we compared. Some of the targets were undetectable by the Deus even with the 11" low frequency coil at 8" depth in high mineralization. The Nox nailed all of these wild coin targets. 

I looked at the Orx very carefully and decided that it was just too limited in adjustable audio features and detecting modes for me to seriously consider when compared to the Deus and the Equinox.

If you hunt in mild to moderate dirt the Orx would probably be just fine. So would the Makro Multi Kruzer. I tried one out for a while and I really liked all of its features. It was hard to calm it down in high EMI and high mineralization however.

In a perfect world, I would buy a Nox 800 and keep the V3i.

.

It will work with any Tek Greek Series, F11, F22, F44, the later F5, Gold Bug/Gold Bug Pro/Tek G2/F19 stock coil along with the many aftermarket coils for the same detectors. Personally, the stock 8" coil is hard to beat. It is super easy to pinpoint with the hole in the middle, is very lightweight and will easily go 6" with accurate target ID and will go deeper with good tones. The Minuteman is a totally awesome, no nonsense detector and like the Tek Patriot, is a steal of a deal. 

Jeff

I second Gerry and Rob's businesses. Great, super honest guys to work with especially if you are into nugget shooting and want field training.

If you are looking for good deals on slightly used or new all purpose detectors Gerry, Rob, River Team 6, Backwoods Metal Detecting, Metal Detecting Stuff, Show Me Treasure  and Serious Detecting all offer used quality detectors at good prices on their websites and on eBay. I've had good luck dealing with them through the years.

Jeff