Chase Goldman

Thanks Steve for running the test.  Encouraging results.  I wish ML would give us the mah rating of the Equinox battery so we could size the emergency power bank to give us at least one complete recharge.

I would just get one (or more) $10, 10000 mah portable power bank.  It's cheaper (when you account for the alkaline battery cost), less weight per mah, can give you the necessary current, and you are giving the environment a break.  (Each alkaline AA battery cell has about 2500 mah capacity).

E.g. Aibocn Power Bank 10,000mAh External Battery Charger with Backup Flashlight https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013HIR1Q2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_w2rAAbNKAEE5J

Not trying to burst a bubble (and I too am interested from an academic standpoint in what Steve finds out as to how much of a recharge he can get from the AA power bank gizmo).

All I am saying is that the state of Li Ion and Li Polymer technology has gotten to the point that using single use AA or even rechargeable AA batteries for applications where you are not constrained to using a legacy AA battery compartment is neither cost effective nor efficient from a weight, volume, energy, or power standpoint.  Heck, I use a Li Ion battery pack the size of a paperback book to jumpstart my car!

Time to overcome collective fears of being stuck in the middle of the desert with a dead Equinox battery and having nothing but a pocket full of AA spares you originally purchased for your AT Pro.  Just get one of these inexpensive rechargeable power banks to keep your depleted Equinox going and you can use its flashlight to get you back to your vehicle after detecting for 16 hours straight.  

If you do have a boatload of spare AA's sitting around, though, because you got rid of your AT Max or whatever to get an Equinox.  Steve's little battery pack is a GREAT way to put them back to work for you in a pinch. 

43 minutes ago, BeachHunter said:

I need more hours on my Deus. Thanks guys.

And if whatever you are doing is working for you, DO NOT CHANGE just because of what [us] so called experts are saying.  You may have discovered some quirk of the machine or something.  Just because we don’t understand why it’s working for you, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it.  But, yeah, get more hours, get comfortable and then try some “informed” tweaks.  Unfortunately, you may be spending too much time with your Equinox to get there.  Lol.

Thx.  Steve.  Probably taking a big chance anyway going deep enough to submerge the control box and thinking your head won't get wet.

Is the connector on the non waterproof wired phones that come with the 600 also not waterproof?

Would have been nice to be able to use the wireless phones that came with the 800 in a manner such that you could have them wired to a submerged the control box without ruining the wired cord connector at the control box end even if you never intended to have the phones themselves (or your head) get dunked since wireless doesn’t work with the control box submerged.  If the 600 wired phones enable you to do this, that would be advantageous over the 800 setup.

1 hour ago, Steve Herschbach said:

The Equinox can employ automatic ground tracking. I don’t know what methodology is used. There is no control for ground balance adjustment speed. Tracking is either on or off.

Is the expectation that accurate GB tracking on wet salt sand is independent of whether you are in Beach mode 1 or 2 and Equinox can accurately GB track in wet salt sand in any mode (I am only talking wet salt sand GB tracking not target ID in wet salt sand which is obviously optimized when in beach mode based on the Multi IQ  algorithm independent of ground tracking accuracy)?  Or are they interrelated in that optimal Target ID in wet salt sand is dependent on the combination of superior wet salt sand GB tracking which only occurs in Beach mode combined with the Beach mode Multi IQ targeting algorithm?

2 hours ago, Mike Hillis said:

HA!  HA!

The post title suckered me into reading a sales pitch.  Way to go.

I'm only looking at the Equinox out of curiosity as it doesn't offer anything that would help better identify non-ferrous treasure in non-ferrous trash, or see through walls better than others.   In reality,  just owning one would be a time waster for me, but hey, itches got to be scratched, right?   The good news would be that one could scratch his itch and still get most of his money back afterwards if they moved early, unless of course it deploys with glitches.  Will it continue to generate a itch or will it fade?   Right now my itch is fading.   

What I really like about the Equinox though, is the way it is stirring the waters of detectorland.   
HH
Mike  

Lol. C’mon, Mike.  Give in to the dark side.  Resistance is futile!  Scratch that marketing generated itch.  You know you really want to.  

3 hours ago, vfp7 said:

Steve, you reminded me of one trick when working with VLF detectors in the surf zone, when the maximum speed of automatic ground balance is set, and the detector begins to adjust to the incoming sea waves.

The question is - how is the Nox doing with automatic adjustment of the ground balance?
How big is his range of automatic GB adjustment speed, for the ability to work with incoming sea waves?

 

That is an excellent question.  In another thread I was just explaining how on the Deus you have to manually switch between "normal" GB Tracking mode to wet salt beach GB mode and there is no tracking option when in Wet salt beach GB mode.

1 hour ago, BeachHunter said:

I’m new to the Deus so I may be doing something wrong but I was under the impression I was in the stock dry beach mode. While detecting the sand I wandered into the wet slope and the Hf Elliptical Coil was very stable and hit on what I thought was a deep repeatable target. 

As far as what frequency the stock dry beach mode was in, I don’t know. Best of luck and my apologies if I caused you concern.

 

Beachunter - you seem a tad taken aback by all the questions, so let me frame this for you.  

I have owned a Deus for more than 3 years.  It took me well over a year, bootcamp class, extra handbooks, numerous forum visits, and hundreds of hours to get a handle on the nuances of the machine.  On the other hand, I was able to take it out of the box on stock settings and find $5 in clad on the first day I got the machine. 

People are asking you these questions because the Deus is notorious for not being the most stable machine in wet salt sand.  Typically, if you are hunting between dry and wet sand (actively being covered by surf, not just damp) typically requires you to manually shift ground balance to wet beach mode to shift to the lower salt ground phase readings (Deus does not seamlessly track between normal ground phase settings you use on dry sand and wet salt beach ground phase settings).  People are interested in how you have tweaked the machine to be successful in wet beach mode - it is kind of a big deal if you have successfully done it on a consistent basis.  The fact that you are using stock dry beach mode and the fact that you don't know the operating frequency with a coil that can be set anywhere between 13 and 80 khz (a HUGE range that can totally alter the machine's performance and what targets the machine can actually "see") yet are being successful is very counterintuitive to those who really know the Deus.  People aren't "concerned" as much as wondering how you are managing to pull that off, and as a result, you are going to have a lot of experienced Deus users asking you questions.  I have found the new HF coils to be quiet and stable overall compared to their low frequency predecessors.  I still have not cracked the true wet beach nut with the Deus and is one of the things that first attracted me to Minelab's first fast, yet relatively inexpensive, multi frequency machine. Had to get that last line in there because this is an Equinox forum after all.  lol.  HTH

On 1/18/2018 at 11:09 PM, Geotech said:

I was wondering why the guy from White's posted a review of the Pro-Find. Now I know.

I've never quite understood why people want a pinpointer that discriminates. When you're detecting and made the decision to dig, you want to extract whatever is in the ground. If it's clearly a good signal and the pinpointer finds iron (esp small iron), you want to pull the iron and re-scan. If it's an iffy signal, then you should already expect that there may be good and bad targets in the same hole. Pinpointing ain't the time to discriminate and, as the video demonstrates, a non-motion pinpointer will never be as competent at target disc as the main detector.

All that said, I will probably eventually design a VLF pinpointer that does target ID. Gotta give the people what they want, even if it makes no sense.

 

Two words: Sunray Probe.  In other words it CAN be done.  But why?

One situation is when you are relic hunting and clearing out a large trash or fire pit or hut, having a handheld probe that can quickly help you comb through the dirt tailings for goodies (vs. the numerous nails and ration can pieces that you will inevitably encounter) is a huge time saver especially if you are in a confined area that doesn't lend itself to swinging a full-sized detector along the walls of the pit.  Especially one that has trouble separating ferrous and non-ferrous targets in a high trash density environment such as what I just described.  It's a niche use to be sure, but I know a few thousand relic hunters who would probably buy a Pinpointer that could do that and it makes ALL the sense in the world to them.

The magnet is an alternative but tedious to use also.

My Deus does a pretty good job at it especially with the small form factor elliptical coil and wireless setup it can be broken down and used like a Pinpointer on steroids.  Kind of expensive, though. Lol.

1 hour ago, steveg said:

It will be interesting to see just how well people can utilize the Equinox's sensitivity to gold, in other than a prospecting or beach-hunting scenario...

Steve

Yep.  That would be relic hunting, as many desirable relic targets are mid conductors like brass.  Add to that improved performance in mineralized soils and high recovery for dealing with iron infested sites and you have a potential winner.  The Deus relic hunting community is already reaping the unanticipated benefits of the recently introduced HF coils which were also marketed as primarily prospecting coils.  Multi IQ potentially ups the game further and is generating excitement.

That is the purpose of the link as I posted in my other response above 3rd post in the three).  Steve has been consolidating the published/Minelab Confirmed Info here:

http://www.detectorprospector.com/metal-detecting/minelab-multi-iq-technology-details-explained.htm

From the article linked above:

• Beach 1 also processes a lower weighted combination, BUT uses different algorithms to maximise ground balancing for salt. Hence being most suited for both dry and wet sand conditions.
• Beach 2 processes a very low weighted frequency combination, using the same algorithms as Beach 1 to maximise ground balancing for salt. This search profile is designed for use in the surf and underwater.

Therefore, Beach 2 uses lower frequencies than Beach 1 which is consistent with Steve's list above.

26 minutes ago, Mark Gillespie said:

I agree, the coal waste in my area are from salt size up to BB size.  Each will easily attract to an average magnet.  Even my PI will struggle until I increase the delay slightly.  I'm still amazed at what I've found behind some of the best VLF machines in the world.  But what I'm looking for from the Equinox is a more stable target ID deeper than 6" in the red, iron bearing clay of Virginia. 

 

Same here.

Just use your choice of the other modes for dry sand.  Park 2, Field 2, or Gold 1/2 if you're looking primarily for gold jewelry or coins and Park 1 or Field 1 for silver or clad.  You may have to experiment with the various non-beach modes to see which one provides the best results for your intended targets or the best all-around balanced silver + gold target performance.

This answer is consistent with a similar question you had here 

regarding gold hunting in dry beach conditions.

Steveg,

To answer your other question, integrated plug adapters adapting a large plug to a small receptical are typically wide diameter to accommodate the larger plug.  The pigtail wire moves the larger plug adapter barrel receptical back away from where you are plugging it in so less chance of interference with that recessed receptical on the WM08/Equinox.  HTH.

27 minutes ago, TedinVT said:

What could the rationale possibly be for not posting the price of the waterproof headphones?  With so much interest on the forums in beach / saltwater detecting there must be thousands of folks who would want to tack on the waterproof headphones to their Nox order.  What does holding back on the waterproof headphone price at this stage in the game accomplish other than frustrating a lot of customers?  I want the 800 AND the waterproof headphones and want to be able to figure out what the bottom line is going to be before I decide to pull the trigger.

Add $150 (CTX phones price) to the 800 price and you pretty much have it bracketed.  I am more frustrated about not having an availability date for the phones, than a price.  But as long as they are available b4 May, that will be ok with me.

And to piggy back on Steve's response, a pigtail type adapter (similar to the official Minelab accessory adapter) rather than an integrated plug type of adapter would likely give you the best chance of not having an Interference issue.

Good point.  Could have some bearing on those who have not yet made the decision to buy.  But still probably a low # compared to those that have bought in already, regardless.  Also, just knowing a six inch coil will be on the shelf is good enough for me.  I will take the weeks needed to learn the machine then get around to purchasing the coil when available.  Wish a medium sized elliptical was on the horizon. Coming from Deus, any "normal" accessory coil price seems like a bargain.  Lol.

Are you frustrated about not having a published price or because they likely won’t be available before Equinox ships?

Regarding publishing the price, there is no reason why they couldn’t.  But from their perspective there is also no reason why they should (annoying, I know).  In comparison, publishing the price for the Equinox as early as they did, on the other hand, was purely a marketing decision to capture buyers and keep them from plunking down cash on an AT Max.  They are only selling the coils to Equinox buyers so putting a price out in advance of sales will not Impact whether someone will buy a coil especially since there is no 3rd party competition (for now).

However, I do agree, as Steve and others have pointed out, that they have missed an opportunity to make some sales by not having accessories also available for preorder.  But this is generally par for the course for detector manufacturers.  Accessory coils and even the compatible wireless headsets for the Nokta Impact were not available for several weeks after Impact launch.

As long as they post the price when they are actually built and for sale, that’s good enough for me.  It’s going to be what it’s going to be.

You lost me on the criteria you specified on coil height, coin composition, and nail corrosion.  Can you elaborate on the "whys" behind your specific controls?  Thanks.

I truly wonder what percentage of detectorists are actually able to pay for their machines with their finds.  To me, as a working stiff and family man, I cannot find enough time off to be able to detect as much as I would like to or would have to to be able to "pay for my detector."  If I had the time due to being retred but on a VERY limited income or even unemployed, it seems that more import life expenses would take priority.  If payback time were a factor in my detector buying decision I would be just paying off my Tek Delta.  I only ever cash in clad and selling "collectable" finds is not an option and I do not find enough unreturnable jewelry to really cash in.  Also, thinking about my detector that way smacks of work and getting as far away from the stresses of work is a primary reason why I detect.  Lol.

BTW Steve has taken the time to consolidate Minelab information about Multi IQ and how it is used by the various detect modes.  This page also includes a link to the quick start guide for the Equinox which has additional info incuding detailed information regarding differences between the 600 and 800 models.

http://www.detectorprospector.com/metal-detecting/minelab-multi-iq-technology-details-explained.htm

Based on user testing, other reading and quotes from XP folks like Gary Blackwell on other forums, I think I have pieced together what this Ground Sensitivity thing is doing.

First of all we need to take a look back at what XP was trying to accomplish with GB tracking.  

This is speculation because XP does not discuss much about secret sauce, but I believe prior to version 4 software, XP executedGB tracking as a time based feature.  In other words, while in tracking XP simply periodically measured ground phase reading and adjusted accordingly (say every 1.0 seconds).  This had the unfortunate drawback of cause ground phase reading to abruptly change when you were swinging over a ferrous target that had a pronounced effect over the localized ground phase reading and resulted in the dreaded disappearing target trick, wherein the target would simply disappear if you swung the coil over it enough times while in tracking mode provided the target affected the local ground phased reading (e.g., large iron target or hot rock). 

To solve this problem, I believe that in version 4, XP decided to use ground mineralization index as a trigger point to initialize a ground phase measurement.  Changes in subsequent mineralization index readings above a certain threshold would initiate a new ground phase reading.  The problem with this approach was that in highly mineralized soils you could get large swings in mineralization index which could result in unstable ground phase readings.

In an effort to fix this issue, I believe,  XP in version 4.1 implemented a user adjustable ground sensitivity setting that determines how much of a relative change in mineralization index needs to occur before the Deus takes a new ground phase reading for tracking purposes.  If the sensitivity is set low (e.g., towards 1) then a really significant change in mineralization index needs to occur (think of this as a large spike occurring on the mineralization bar graph meter before a ground phase reading is taken for tracking purposes.  If sensitivity is set high (e.g., towards 10) then only small changes in the mineralization index need to occur before a ground phase reading is taken for tracking purposes (think of only a small blip change in the mineralization bar graph changing).  So a 10 setting would be good if you wanted ground tracking on dry white sugar sand beaches with little mineralization and little change in mineralization and a 1 setting might be good in Culpeper which has high mineralization and large swings in the index.  What is unknown is what threshold change in mineralization is required for each sensitivity setting, whether the effect is linear, whether the magnitude of the mineralization index and not just the change in the index has any bearing on what you should set ground sensitivity (i.e., is it a percentage change in the baseline reading or an absolute change), and, finally, whether positive AND negative changes in mineralization index are tracked or only positive/increasing (or negative/decreasing) changes.  We do know that if a change in mineralization index above the threshold is not sensed for 7 seconds, ground phase defaults to 88 (this might happen, too, if the coil is stationary for greater than 7 seconds).

From reading information from a variety of sites and forums, it seems, according to Gary Blackwell, that XP had the version 4 software set to an equivalent ground sensitivity setting of 10 (!).  Also, Tn's testing has shown for some reason that the effect of the ground sensitivity setting seems to be less pronounced when using the HF coils.  Strange... (note that the HF coils are not "updated" when the version 4.1 update is applied to the Deus).

Bottom line, if you want to play it "safe" for most circumstances and soil mineralizations, using the default sensitivity of 6 is a good start (anywhere between 5 and 7 should work). 

To me the Equinox is like having simultaneous multifrequency on the Deus, if recovery speed is actually in the same ballpark as the Deus which it appears to be.  With the Deus HF coils, you can still push the Deus above the maximum frequency of the Equinox which may afford some advantages in specific situations and of course the Deus is more compact to travel with and still only 67% the weight of the Equinox.  To compete, Deus needs to come up with its own version of Mult IQ and really Minelab has cornered the market on that innovation both in terms of patents AND optimizing the feature.