Chase Goldman

Yeah, I figured it was an early "prototype" coil.  But gotta keep those conspiracy theorists busy.

Anything we should know about the white colored coil on that Equinox, Steve?  LOL.

26 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Hostility?  Seriously?  Are we talking about human rights or metal detectors?

 

Actually, I think I can make the same argument for the Deus vs. the Equinox.  In my opinion they will compliment each other.  I can see myself using the Equinox under many situations (definitely over the Deus at wet salt beach hands down and possibly over the Deus in highly mineralized soil for relic hunting, we'll be testing that this spring).  But I still see situations where the Deus with the small elliptical coil may be the right choice over the Equinox for both accessibility, weight, and the fact that I can operate the Deus at frequencies higher than the Equinox can achieve.  I think less of a "complimentary role" argument can be made for detectors such as the Garrett AT series, Whites MXT,/MX Sport, Nokta Impact, and Fisher F75 (except for coil choice) and similar First Texas detectors vs. the Equinox which appears to eclipse those detectors across the board.

Apologies for quoting myself, but with respect to the Deus vs. Equinox argument (or CTX vs. Equinox, for that matter), I think a valid point could be made that my perspective for the above is that with the exception of the Impact and CTX which I just mentioned,  I have or presently own all of the above detectors.  If I did not already own a Deus, and purchased an Equinox and it lived up to its promise, would I run out and buy a Deus to compliment it?  That is a key question.  I am thinking, at this point, no.  Same thing regarding a CTX.  Even knowing they are likely complimentary to the Equinox (i.e., superior to the Equinox under some specific circumstances), it would need to be a very compelling gap before I would pony up the $ to purchase either of these high end detectors on top of the Equinox.

In other words, asking those already owning a Deus or CTX and who are thinking about getting an Equinox if they would then get rid of their Deus/CTX would be quite a different answer than asking those who presently own neither and who are getting an Equinox if they would then buy a Deus/CTX (unless selling the Deus/CTX was necessary to make purchasing the Equinox viable).   Just because someone answers "no" in the second scenario does not mean that they do not necessarily consider the Deus/CTX complimentary to the Equinox.  It is a nuanced argument, but an important aspect to consider, IMO, when discussing the concept of the flagship detector.  It certainly should not be something that should generate hostility among existing CTX owners or those who are contemplating either the CTX or the Equinox.

Similar to the point Steve was making earlier, I understand that folks are uncomfortable with the whole Equinox vs. CTX thing because most people look at the Flagship detector as the detector that encompasses all the features of it's lesser cousins, an evolutionary paradigm.  Using the evolutionary metaphor, I think of the Equinox as a parallel branch off the multifrequency evolutionary tree, and as such it cannot hold up to a pure apples to apples comparison with the CTX or Excal or eTrac etc... (that is somewhat borne out by Minelabs own multifrequency evolutionary technology charts).  The thing about the Equinox is that it is ALSO fast and light weight and that makes it truly "disruptive" tech as is the popular term for such things whether you are talking cell phones, laptops, virtual reality headsets, or automobiles.

1 hour ago, Bayard said:

This ambiguity is the source of resistance and hostility.

 

Hostility?  Seriously?  Are we talking about human rights or metal detectors?

7 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Equinox was made to compete with the Garrett AT and XP Deus, not the CTX. Now think about Deus versus CTX. Which is better? Most reasonable people would say there are things each excels at, and that a CTX and Deus complement each other well. Only partisans insist on going further and making one out to be “better” than the other. One is not better than the other per se, they are just different. Which is “better” depends on the task at hand.

The same story is true with CTX versus Equinox. Seeking clear, pat answers smothers the reality that one is not better than the other. There are targets a CTX might do better on and targets a Equinox might do better on. The CTX in some ground will have an edge for depth on some silver. In other ground the machines will be a match. Equinox has the clear edge in trash, and can easily find coins that the CTX can’t find due to masking. CTX is likely to be more stable in saltwater, Equinox a little less so due to being the “hotter” machine.

Trying to force detectors into a “lineup” is something done for marketing purposes, and they always line them up by price. Does that mean more expensive detectors are always better? Of course not.

I would love to be the provider of easy pat answers but that would be misleading people and is not true. Anyone that clearly states that a CTX is a better machine under all circumstances than an Equinox or that an Equinox is clearly better than a CTX under all circumstances is either ignorant or a liar. It just does not work that way in real life. I am therefore planting my feet firmly on ambiguous ground because that is where reality is. Those seeking to pigeon hole one detector as “best” are closing their minds to the concept that all machines excel in some ways for some people. My advice is keep an open mind and realize no detector has a corner on “best”. The goal for me is to figure out how to get any one detector to do the best job it can, but I don’t insist the detector must be perfect at everything.

Actually, I think I can make the same argument for the Deus vs. the Equinox.  In my opinion they will compliment each other.  I can see myself using the Equinox under many situations (definitely over the Deus at wet salt beach hands down and possibly over the Deus in highly mineralized soil for relic hunting, we'll be testing that this spring).  But I still see situations where the Deus with the small elliptical coil may be the right choice over the Equinox for both accessibility, weight, and the fact that I can operate the Deus at frequencies higher than the Equinox can achieve.  I think less of a "complimentary role" argument can be made for detectors such as the Garrett AT series, Whites MXT,/MX Sport, Nokta Impact, and Fisher F75 (except for coil choice) and similar First Texas detectors vs. the Equinox which appears to eclipse those detectors across the board.

52 minutes ago, dirtyntx said:

You can always grab one of those portable battery packs to charge your headphones and Nox...

The only drawback being that while you can run the Equinox while charging, you typically cannot run BT headphones while charging them.

In the other APT X headphone thread are some links to $30 US sports style (i.e., moisture resistant) APT X earbuds.  They are not bank breakers, but you should definitely look for APT X vs. run of the mill bluetooth earphones to avoid lag.

2 minutes ago, Toddbbq said:

I am considering modding a magnetic charging head to use as a terminal protector sealed with  dielectric grease to keep them protected from the saltwater and to prevent voltage bleed which may be possible but wont know for sure till I test with multimeter in the water.

 

 

 

 

That is actually a GOOD idea based on anecdotal stories of corrosion causing battery drain and damage on Deus coils where the charging terminals are exposed to salt water.  Some folks have used simple electrical tape solutions, but the magnetic protector would be cool (perhaps with a lanyard if it gets accidentally bumped in use or in the surf).

Ditto.  You have received several "Trophies" from me.  I feel almost like I've already been swinging the Equinox based on the info you have provided here.

Folks if you are spending 12 straight hours in the water, might need to take a break for lunch (and you can recharge then) but don't go back in too soon so you don't get a cramp.  Lol.  Seriously, if you charge up your battery pack fully b4 your hunt, it should basically last you ALL DAY unless ML botched it.  Should not have to rig up an in water charging solution.  If you are not in the water you can also charge on the fly, but that should be a rare necessity.  This is based on my experience with the Deus where I have to worry about FOUR LiIon batteries (coil, control box, headphones, and pinpointer) and it has NEVER hindered an ALL DAY relic hunting session like a DIV for me.

Steve - thanks for the tip on the user profile button.  That is a great feature.  When I am using a Deus I like to "interrogate" the target using both tone and pitch modes at different frequencies and this can easily be accomplished using the +/- buttons on the Deus remote.  Though not as flexible, having the user profile button will enable a similar approach with different "modes" of Multi IQ.

Regarding Gold Mode VCO, similar to but not as responsive as Gold Field on the Deus but I see it can be a useful tool for more than just nugget hunting.

I take it that VCO cannot be selected as an "audio tone" choice for any of the other search modes - only Gold Field?

Finally, after viewing your video, and listening to Lunk's discussion of how the detector was set up when he had the chance to swing it at the conference, it really sounds to me that he was NOT in gold mode.  He seems to be describing the Park or Field tone.  But you would know best having actually swung the Equinox.  I guess the only way to know for sure is to have Lunk weigh in on which of the tones most closely matched what he was hearing when he got to swing the Equinox.

Sounds about right.  And I guess soneone else has $600 to spend towards a new Equinox.  Win-Win!

2 hours ago, NSC said:

Thank you kindly.

I did look at those but I prefer the type with wings that wrap around the ear, they hold on and do not move around.

Anker Soundbuds Curve aptX look to me  like what I have been using.

Heres to sweet tones 

Those are the ones I have.  Just waiting for an APT X comoatble metal detector to testvthem out on.  Anyone know where I can get one? 

4 minutes ago, Lunk said:

Perhaps, or maybe the machine was in another mode and I just didn’t notice and thought it was in Gold Mode.?

That sounds more likely than the oddball configuration I was postulating.  What's cool is, if that was the case, that you were hitting on such small targets and could pick up the gold test target just fine even when you were not in gold mode!  It's intimidating to be handed a machine cold and then swing it when you are not intimately familiar with the user interface.  It's almost a little like flying blind (or when you swung a metal detector the first time out without out knowing what all the adjustments actually do) because its hard to pick up the visual clues of your selected mode off an unfamiliar screen.  Until you are used to the icons and layout, it just looks cluttered plus you are mainly focusing on the audio and target id when you have such limited time to play around with it.

Sounds like what Steve was describing in his Gold Mode write-up is the audio you desire.  Perhaps Mark's machine didn't have this latest audio tweak that Steve was describing for some reason.  Thanks for the info.

17 minutes ago, Lunk said:

Just as a matter of my personal preference, I hope there is one more tweak to the Gold Mode, and that is the audio response; I mentioned to Mr. Lawrie that typically with Minelab gold machines (and the prospecting mode on the X-terra 705) the audio response changes in pitch and volume, increasing as the coil gets closer to the target. This allows the operator to approximate how deep a target is. The audio response of the EQX gold mode, however, was just a single-tone beep of constant volume and pitch, just like the other modes.

Are you saying that the audio did not respond as a VCO (variable volume/pitch) as described in Steve's post here:

Also, you mentioned multifrequency was an option in your original post.  Did you get to swing it in multifrequency (the default) AND single frequency during your test?  If so, was there any difference in responsiveness that you could observe?

I know they are not the minelabs, but should be similar with respect to battery life.  Specifically, I have never had the Deus detector outlast the Deus wireless headphones on a charge.  I would suspect that would be case with both the supplied Minelab APT X headphones AND the supplied WM 08 wireless module that you can plug your existing wired headphones into.  Believe me, wireless really frees you up during target recovery in farm field relic recovery where, as you know, you typically have to maneuver around to dig larger, deep holes often with the detector lying on the ground.  And remember, you can stay wireless longer by using the APT X phones, and then if they somehow do not last the entire session, you can, in a pinch, whip out a set of wired phones WITH the WM 08 wireless module and still stay untethered from the detector. HTH

I think the 600 will serve you well as a starter unit you can grow with.  That being said, the value of the 800 may be greater than the 600 because of the included wireless hardware.  But are the bells and whistles of the 800 needed for the beginning detectorist?  No.  If you can afford 800 (i.e., price is not an obstacle) can the 800 be a good machine for a beginner?  Yes.  The additional bells and whistles are not going to get in the way of learning the machine and the provided wireless audio components are very convenient accessories to have.  Note the 600 also supports wireless BT headsets and proprietary ML wireless modules but you will have to bring or buy your own.  HTH

The flip side to my discussion is that there is no point in relearning something  2 or 3 times because it is in a state of flux, so it makes sense to not lean forward too much.  It’s always good to occasionally tell yourself “don’t forget to breath.”  Lol

Sorry, guess I’m splitting hairs but just trying to get a handle on the Gold Mode SW version Lunk was using.  I latched on to his statement that Multi was an option (vs. stating it was the default) which could have meant it was earlier than when ML recently made Multi the default setting.  Guess I was mistaken that there was an interim iteration.   Thanks for correcting my misinformation.  

It’s hard being on the outside and trying to piece the bits of info together to get the big picture or to correlate operational reviews especially when the target is moving (e.g., the “recent” change to Gold Mode) and as ML trickles the info out in multi part bog posts. So bear with us not in the know folks just trying to differentiate between fact and fiction as we piece the puzzle together.

Why bother now when all will be revealed once it is released?  Because I am aiming to get a running start on understanding this beast so I can minimize the learning curve in the field once it finally delivers.

Plus as an engineer, I tend to go a little overboard on precision in communicating technical information.  My apologies.

45 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Chase, Gold Mode started as having only the 20 kHz and 40 kHz options. That was reported on before you became a member here. Then MF was added as an option.

Thanks, Steve.  So Gold Mode has gone through at least 3 “visible” iterations, then (single frequency only, single frequency default with multi option, and finally multi freq default with single freq option), correct?  I say visible meaning an obvious user interface tweak vs. whatever else ML is tweaking under the hood with the Multi IQ implementation algorithm for Gold Mode.

Great report.  Just getting the machine to run stable under those conditions is an accomplishment, not to mention being able to recover legitimate targets (desirable or not).  I believe that if the default frequency mode under gold mode was multi IQ, then you were likely running the latest sw version.  Steve can correct me, but I don't think gold mode was ever precluded from running in multi IQ, but the default was single frequency (20 or 40 khz) originally. I believe the only mode that is limited in that regard is beach mode which is limited to multi IQ only.  Thanks for the report.

4 hours ago, Nuke em said:

The AT and Deus would out sell the CTX anyway , they are a different price range . The CTX only sells so poorly compared to many because of the price . If the price here in the UK wasn't the price of a small house i might have kept mine . Even if i didn't like it much . Other reasons for its lack of sales are the weight and complicated menu and many people kept moaning about lack of updates . Though i always thought the Exchange 2 was for downloading programs . I doubt that the Equinox will get many updates unless the machine has issues after release .

The Equinox is going to have the Deus and AT types for dinner and any others in that price range if successful . 

Agree AT series is toast with Equinox and Deus will take a hit too, but mainly because of what you have to pay for it.  In some respects (e.g., HF) it may still outperform the Equinox because its frequencies are much higher than the Equinox max frequency.  No one (even Minelab Go detectors), touch Deus on lightweight, low profile detecting.  But will users be willing to pay the Deus price for these fringe benefits?  I would say very few once Equinox comes out.

Gerry,

Thanks for giving the dealer's perspective.  Believe me, I know that dealers need to protect themselves from unscrupulous buyers just as buyers need to shop around and of course business is business..  My only point was glad I was in a situation where I did not have to worry about what list I needed to get on based on money exchanging hands.  I am lucky to be in a situation where the dealer and I have mutual trust that does not need to be confirmed with a credit card number, if I say I am going to buy it, I buy it and doesn't have to tell me to "step aside".  I do not know what volume my dealer moves so I cannot compare with your situation but I know that the playbook changes when you have a larger customer base.  So perhaps, I will have to wait longer than your prepaying customers, but my sense of loyalty to my dealer because of the good product recommendations, personal service and instruction he has provided will keep me coming back despite wait times and despite knowing that his prices are not necessarily rock bottom.  Some nationally known dealers will not give you a choice, its either prepay or no detector, so I appreciate those dealers that give the customers that choice (just as I'm sure some of my dealer's customers would prefer that he run a long and short list).  The mindset of buyers and what they are willing to tolerate in that regard varies across a wide spectrum, that is why it is a good thing (and yes good business) to have competition and for the buyers to have choices with respect to being able to have some influence over when they get product even if it involves a prepay.  

It's all good and I dare say, since I am sure you know that the product Minelab is producing is not going to be an AT Max situation (even if someone comes up with a new product announcement, I cannot see it even touching what Minelab is offering in the Equinox), this thing is going to sell like hotcakes and dealers will not be taking any baths with unsold inventory, I'm sure of that.  They are just going to be dealing with whining buyers (like me) who are wondering when their 'Nox is going to show up and having to deal with people who say "'Nox."  lol.

Thanks again for responding.

PS, anything you can share with us from the dealer's meeting?

2 hours ago, dewcon4414 said:

Steve do you think this statement has changed?:  is more sensitive to high frequency targets and slightly less sensitive to low frequency targets.

I believe this was a comparison of BBS/FBS...... seems the low freq part may have based on the nuggets you guys have found.   High freq like silver may be nothing more than the depth........and since they say its just slightly less i dare say here on a Fl beach its going to be insignificant..... HOWEVER this latest turn may well have improved the gold performance for us beach hunters.

 

 

I think you are mixing up frequency and conductivity terms in some parts of the discussion above (e.g., “high freq like silver”).  Large and High conductive targets (e.g., silver) are typically better detected at depth with low frequency and small and mid-conductive targets (e.g., gold) typically better detected with higher frequencies.  There are no absolutes and other factors such as soil and salt conductivity, iron proximity, and target size come into play.  Hence the advantages of Multi IQ AND high recovery speed become apparent.  Overcoming the instability that results from the varying salt concentration/  conductivity in surf/wet sand is the overriding consideration in beach mode which tends to favor low frequency weighting and may limit small gold detection capability in wet sand surf.  But having a stable detector at least gives you a fighting chance and should also slightly favor higher conductive targets like silver.  Gold mode should excel on dry beach and with Mult IQ should make a decent general purpose dry beach mode.

Was this the statement you were referring to:

“Multi-IQ uses a different group of fundamental frequencies than BBS/FBS to generate a wide-band multi-frequency transmission signal that is more sensitive to high frequency targets and slightly less sensitive to low frequency targets. Multi-IQ uses the latest high-speed processors and advanced digital filtering techniques for a much faster recovery speed than BBS/FBS technologies. Multi-IQ copes with saltwater and beach conditions almost as well as BBS/FBS, however BBS/FBS still have an advantage for finding high conductive silver coins in all conditions.”

Now its a guessing game for us.  Would be better if you could enable or disable this feature (so the unit worked as before or you could turn it on an tweak and play with it).  I think I am going to stay away from 4.1 for awhile until you and others get a handle on how to set it.  I'll be watching your posts to see what you come up with in the comparison, in the mean time its 4.0 for me.