☠ Cipher

On 5/21/2015 at 12:55 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

Well, we finally know what it is that Minelab was working on, and ZVT is not half sine technology. Rumor (sorry Chris) has it a new White's hybrid may be seen by year end? (Edit - note this post was in 2015) We will see.

Can you imagine having a PI that discriminated like a VLF? How much is something like that worth to people? Another 10K detector? I would be first in line.

Is that what NASA Tom is talking about here?

http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,152652,page=1

The decision makers at Whites really finally need to jump into the 21st century and give us a machine that can be updated, waterproof as a matter of course, wireless headphones as a matter of course, create wireless coils with a wired option (like others do with headphones, because wired is still the only solution in and under water, but with wireless coils you can upgrade hardware via coil change with coils that are tuned to their specific applications), create an app so that people can choose to use either a remote or phone to control their coil. Create a V4 or V5 that addresses the V3i shortcomings. It's still my favorite machine, but it needs improving to stay competitive. Keep the spectrograph, Polar Plot, etc., but also add an imaging program like Target Trace. Integrating with cell phone applications would be awesome. Open a metal detecting app market for developers. This worked wonders for cell phones. Look at all that's available now as people were given a platform to display their coding talents. This could work for metal detectors with optional cell phone control. Create a pinpointer that communicates with the host machines and adapts their disc settings. Add a small LCD to pinpointer. Do these things, or others will, or already are working on it. 

In the forums/social media shakeup, those that stay in the forum game will reap the rewards. Forums that stay focused on organizing information, and filtering trolls without becoming draconian about their rules will survive and grow. This is one of those. Forums like Findmall, TreasureNet, etc will die out with the old timers due to their own silliness, draconian style, and focus on the bottom line rather than the hobby itself. I like the combo myself. I like coming here for serious business (research, fruitful, engaging,conversation) and organization, and I like the freedom of social media. The endless scrolling of social media is the reason good forums will continue to exist in the short term, until social media learns to provide methods to organize. Serious troll free engagement is the reason some will always survive. 

On 11/27/2018 at 4:38 PM, Rick Kempf said:

Anyway - don’t count them out.  Their engineering staff is solid and with the acquisition of the Manta project and the hiring of the “Euroteam” that developed it - they have leapfrogged dozens of man-years of R&D on not only PI detectors but advanced concepts for mixed mode and AI driven detection approaches.

I'm curious how AI will come into play in metal detector technology if you have any insight. I've seen some evidence that Minelab is playing around with it, was unaware First Texas is. Find it fascinating as I love electronic technology period. 

As an aside on this overall thread it is true that US companies are having a hard time keeping up in part due to companies outsourcing labor overseas, and State funding/subsidies. Companies with state funding have a distinct advantage in many ways. This has been partly what has propelled Nokta/Makro this far, and enabled them to bring concepts like the Simplex to market. It is going to effect the low end market like the Equinox has the mid-range and outward. At some point one machine offers so much more than others it can no longer be overlooked. The Simplex will force others to offer more or get out of the game. That's not as good for US business as it is for innovation. US companies have had to cope in ways they find embarrassing and won't readily admit, like having some of their boards made overseas. I just hope they get a handle on it all and produce. So far foreign companies have benefitted more from free trade than the United States has. Forced technology transfers in China many of which are then sold to other companies in other nations have irreparably harmed US innovators. 

I ran into this issue at a seeded hunt with a few other Equinox users. Noise cancel worked until another Equinox came within range. Then I'd have to do it again. As I sit here I do now know if the equinox has a frequency shift separate from noise cancel, but this did prove to be a problem that cost me very valuable time. I still did extremely well for my first seeded hunt (over $250 in silver and prizes for a $70 hunt), and the issue hasn't come up again since. I'm sure it will so I'll be looking into it with you as I would like to continue to use the Equinox for seeded hunts, and partner/group hunting, but wouldn't be able to if there's not a better working solution. 

I live in upstate NY unfortunately, so no alligators for me haha. I live in the Schoharie Valley, which is absolutely stunning landscape with plenty of Native American, Colonial, and Revolutionary War history. I'm about a 20 minute walk or 5-10 minute bike ride from an awesome kayak trail. It's a blessing and a curse. All of that is a blessing, but the curse is that we have very harsh winters, so the water is either frozen or close to it from as soon as November to as late as April. I might have a good month or two at most to get in the water and mess around. Then I'll spend the winter preparing for next year. I'll be doing as much tank/hookah diving and kayaking for treasure as I can and I'll be pretty new to both forms. This winter can't pass fast enough with all the gear I'm assembling 

This idea for added boyancy in the rear was submitted to me. Looks like one idea. Under the kayak is also a space where a mount could be connected via PVC and built out into an optional stabilizer system, so I think a neater version of this could be created and mounted without drilling a single hole. Could also be removed when I'm not using the outboard. 

20 minutes ago, Alluminati said:

Right on man. I use them for detecting as well.

I just got a new one this year and haven't properly rigged it out yet, always looking for ideas.

That is a great opportunity for magnet fishing, good idea. I also want to detect more of the smaller waterways around here as I believe that these were the streets and highways of the fur trade era. I would love to find a canoe dump full of relics and silver, or even just stumble across unknown swimming holes etc.

I started a topic. Forgot to link to it, but I'm sure it you search "kayak" it will come right up. 

In the latter part of the Summer/early Autumn I found myself thinking more about a kayak for river hunting and magnet fishing. It was probably all those Aquachigger videos that did it. So I set my mind toward finding one before the leaves began to change much. I found a barely used Sundolphin Aruba 8 SS for $100. Next I began looking at sources of propulsion. I found a used Kota Minn 17ib thrust trolling motor for $35. I pulled a battery from a klunker for a trial power source and installed it hidden behind the seat. I cut a 7"x7" slit to slide the battery in on top of a thick foam seat pad. Then I found an old wheelchair to cut down and use as a kayak dolly to tow behind my mountain bike. Also, as a second source of propulsion I've rigged up a cordless drill trolling attachment, which works far better than I could've imagined. Everything else has worked on a rudimentary level so far, but some refinements are needed.

The motor Kota Minn 17ib thrust does power the kayak sufficiently enough, but I find myself wishing I'd gone for a used 30ib thrust. And there are now wireless remote kits for trolling motors these days. Secondly, because I have a very light sit-in kayak the back end sags in the water more than I'd like, so I have to increase the boyancy back there and possibly even move the battery up to the very front of the boat. I'm intent on keeping the motor mounted in the back and out of my way when I use it. The Sundolphin Aruba 8 is the only sit in kayak I've seen that can mount a trolling motor (with a special kind of dual vice) in the back without cutting a bunch of holes and creating more fuss. I also need to settle on a way to steer the boat. For now I've extended the steering handle above my head and it works well enough, but is awkward. I've seen some guys use bicycle wire attached to pedal, some use remotes etc. I'm also considering the drill method as a more permanent power source with some electrical refinements. It is actually just as powerful as a trolling motor, if not more. A trip to Harbor Freight could net you a drill and several batteries for less than $60. Each battery powers the boat for 20 min or so at a speed of around 4-5 mph. A full sized trolling motor and battery will power the boat for around 2-3 hours on max speed of a few mph or so. 

More photos and and video will follow, but here's a couple pics from early on in the project

1 hour ago, Alluminati said:

Maybe sometime you could start another thread about your kayak trolling motor project, it sounds interesting. I pondered doing it myself a few times.

I will do that. My intent is actually treasure hunting related. I plan to use it for waterway hunts and magnet fishing.

It's funny you mention it. My 600 did this a lot. It would do it if I bumped into anything ever so slightly, and it would do it if there were any slight downward pressure on the coil such as if I were to switch arms with the machine standing upright on the ground. My greatest problem with it was that it did it while brushing the ground ever so slightly too, so I had to be sure to keep it up higher during my swing than other machines. It was not as forgiving if it brushed the grass on a low swing, or while investigating deeper signals. I felt that it ought not do that but others said theirs did too and one claimed it was the sensitivity of the machine and coil configuration. I argued that the coil housing is not robust enough and some machines are reflecting it more than others. That I've had other sensitive machines that did not do it to such an extent. Turning the sensitivity down did help, but not until it was down to below 18, usually around 14. In any case, it only behaved this way if I bumped it or put pressure on it, so I let it slide and I guess I learned to adapt to it. Now I've moved up to the 800, and I've noticed that it does not do what the 600 did. Not even close. It is closer to what I've been used to from other "sensitive" machines, so I still wonder whether I was right in my feeling that something was off. I brought it up very early on, on a Facebook page and the keepers of the great obsoletor were guarding the portals, jumping on anyone who dared complain about the collar locks or any other issue. 

On 8/6/2018 at 9:07 AM, Monte said:

Chuck, Please excuse my delay in responding to your post.  This getting old crap is sure making life miserable at times.  I've been living with pain and impaired mobility off-and-on since an on-the-job injury in Sept. of '87 when I worked at Compass, but full-time misery since late '90.  Then an injury March 2nd of this year left me with a mild tear to my left rotator cuff, and a complex fall on my cement driveway the first of April caused a severe tear to my right rotator cuff and other issues in my shoulder and neck. 

The resulting issues have really limited my opportunities to get out detecting this past four months, but when I do the bulk of my swing-time is spent with a White's model in-hand.  Oh, I still manage to get some time in with my also excellent working Nokta CoRe and Relic devices, but lighter weight and comfortable balance are what I crave the most so far this year.

I ended 2017 using a terrific, multi-purpose MX-7 as the only White's in my current Regular-Use Detector Team, but I now enjoy owning and using several models of that brand that have all proven themselves to me in the past.   I started out the year by adding a 'Noah hand-me-down'  XLT to my 'detector team' and equipped myself with my preferred 6½" Concentric coil for it.  In May I made a trade of a brand new extra MX-7 for a choice-condition modified Classic ID with the 5½" Ferret Concentric coil.

I swapped a back-up Nokta FORS Relic for an MX Sport in June or July, and then on the 28th of last month I bought an MX-5 'package' that included the 6½" Concentric coil.   I live in the high plateau desert region of far Eastern Oregon so I'm not close to any sandy coastal beaches, and my hampered mobility and use of a cane full-time make it difficult to beach hunt in soft, loose sand the past quarter century.

Besides, I can't swim and never did more than wade out only to very shallow depths when I did.  I like the MX Sport, but I plan to sell it with a brand new set of waterproof headphones and an extra search coil simply because I don't need it because my MX-7 uses the same circuitry and serves all my needs.  The MX-7 and modified Classic ID with the smaller coil are my two most comfortable TID equipped detectors to handle, and all of my 'team' spend the bulk of their time Relic Hunting and perhaps 10% to 20% of the time are used for typical Coin Hunting applications.

There's no such thing as a 'perfect' detector which is why I also have current models from Fisher, Makro, Nokta and Tesoro, along with some older favorites I occasionally use but mainly have for seminars and training sessions.  Those include Compass TR's, a Garrett Hunter BFO and TR-Disc. units, and an early Teknetics Mark I Ltd.

Naturally, every detector that makes the cut to be on my Regular-Use Team has to have functional features and in-the-field performance, but I can't ignore the 'fun factor', either.  'All' models that stay in my arsenal are 'fun' to use, and I do get a lot of 'fun' and enjoyment out of using my MX-7.

Like you, I am not certain why so many have been caught up in the XP and Minelab offerings this past three or four years, and it seems like many USA based manufacturers have been ignored over that period of time.  I know that I hear from some people who think the MX Sport / MX-7 are repackaged clones from the MXT / MXT Pro, but they are based on new circuitry and do have different features and some differences in performance as well.

Perhaps some of the terrible promotional videos at release time for the MX Sport didn't help, nor the fact that it was rushed-to-market before pre-production field use and evaluation which left early releases with a lot of glitches.  Well, they got those worked out and went on to make a great land-use version of the Sport with the MX-7.

I do wish more White's consumers would step up and contribute their views as there have to be more than the two of us using these really versatile models.

Monte

You are Monte of Monte's Nail Board Test, no doubt. Very cool to hear from you here as I carry a printed copy of your test in a kit of tests I've assembled. I just recently put a Whites Classic ID I modified using Mr. Bill mods up against many other machines, and was amazed at how well it did against even one of my brand new machines of another brand. In fact, it did the best nomatter how hard I tried to mess with settings on that or any other detector I have currently. It got me wondering how the MX Sport would've done on the nailboard test. I too have owned the MX Sport and I have no complaints about it other than the weight. It's the best single frequency machine I've used in a long time. If I happen upon a good trade opportunity it will be back in my arsenal. Right now as far as Whites goes I have a Whites Classic 1, Whites Classic ID, Whites 5900di SL Pro, Whites XLT, 2 Whites V3s (experimental purposes), Whites V3i. This list changes from month to month as I buy, sell and trade. 

I think that for going outside the Equinox for all terrain hunting so many people are making a huge mistake overlooking the MX Sport. It's a shame that it had such a rough rollout. I think it's had a lasting prejudicial effect. If you're not going to go the way of the Equinox, and you can get past a bit of unecessary weight, I've seen no other machine consistently bring home the goods like the MX Sport. I was using it before the Nox, and went to the Nox not because I was dissatisfied with the Sport, but because the Nox offers more in a single package. If the Nox didn't exist, it would be no contest for me. I'd go back to the Sport. It is probably the most capable, yet overlooked single frequency machine on the market. 

The Anfibio "multi" seems like a nice single selectable frequency machine with great depth, but I really think trying to go head to head with the $899 MSRP of another by now very popular machine is a mistake. Similarly I think the 14khz single Anfibio going head to head with and 19khz exceeding the MSRP of another $649 machine is a mistake. Build quality and aesthetics looks to be a no contest check in the Nokta-Makro column though. I don't know that that is enough to bridge the gap. We'll soon see I guess. 

Submitted. Very cool contest. 

Just a quick search of tools available through an iOS Jailbreak on Cydia or on an Android device gives me hope that I could extract the code using a sniffer app and use a code generator to communicate with them or construct an interface they would be able to communicate with. Who knows, these days a dongle may not even be a necessary medium. Program aides and simulators have come a long way since the V3 was envisioned and brought to market.

19 hours ago, Cal_Cobra said:

I assume the headphones are running on unlicensed 2.4GHz, and that the data stream is not encrypted (wouldn't make a lot of sense to encrypt it), so if those assumptions are correct, you could simply use a wireless sniffer to see what's being xmited between the V3's.  Heck even if it is encrypted, it's so old, that the encryption method was likely cracked years ago. 

 

 

You may be on to something there. I have been thinking about a jailbreak app on iPhone I remember that did just that. It may have even been called "Sniffer." I still have those V3s and need to jailbreak this iPhone and we may have it. I've been distracted by a kayak trolling motor project and modding a couple old Whites Classics, but the V3s are on my short list. I'm not letting them go until I've recorded ground balance comparisons with the V3i and have done my best to capture the code they use to transfer programs etc.  

This is the one I'm waiting for. I've been very disappointed in the Super 12 I have for my V3i. For a larger concentric it didn't offer any more depth than the stock 10" DD and it should have. I should've went with my gut on the Detech 13, but that piggy bank is now reserved for this coil.

Very nice!

I know that I started out with a bias against Makro/Nokta. Having a soft spot for First Texas, the design borrowing, bordering on outright imitation of the Racer series seemed obvious to me. Then their obsession with targeting the depth of the F75 LTD in development of the Impact added to my opinion that they were trying to climb into the industry on the back of First Texas' hard work and R+D. As a person who buys, sells, and trades any machine I can get my hands on and keeping the ones I like, I never took to any of their products. They were simply a revolving door set of products to me. There still to this day don't seem to be any currently available that I feel the need to own aside from the imaging machines which is an area other manufacturers better be paying attention to. If there's any area Makro/Nokta leads, it is there, and already!!!

That brings me to my overall point. They are making strides that are hard not to notice. They are improving on the morphing of the Impact in ways that are hard to ignore. As an Anfibio it is tempting to me in ways it wasn't before. The pinpointer nearly has me sold on the innovation alone. And although I suspect they may find that simultaneous multifrequency is a whole different ballgame and a lot more difficult to bring to a finished product than they might expect, I am beginning to believe they can do it.

Once they go there, and if it brings something new or improved to the table they will be impossible to ignore. It'll certainly make me wonder what has been wrong over at First Texas for so long. At this point, to my knowledge only 3 companies have "simultaneous" multi. Out of those Minelab is the only current creator. Whites has struggled since the V3i/VX3 nearly 10 years ago and Fishers machines are CZs from the 90s. Look on the DIY market for a home brew multi diy kit. You won't find one. You'll find VLF and PI, but nothing for multi. Tells you just how daunting it is. The idea that Makro may be on the verge already should be jaw dropping. Deus doesn't even have it. Garret doesn't have it etc.  

7 hours ago, steveg said:

I have no idea yet, on any increased propensity for the EQX to want to give "coin" indications on deep rusty nails after the update, BUT -- I have heard reports of possibly a bit of increase in sensitivity.  If this is true, a corresponding uptick in affinity for rusty nails would make some sense, but I wonder if a bump or two upwards in iron bias might help to tame that a bit, if it is indeed an issue?

Steve

Improved detection of items on edge might also affect how it sees rusty nails if you think about the 2D shape an item on edge takes. 

It just occurred to me that a while back, I and some other V3i users noted on this forum that there were items the Equinox was leaving behind that the V3i was picking up. I've spent quite a good share of time since spring comparing the two purposefully, carefully running them over the same small, manageable patches of ground, with overlapping swings and multiple passes. So I was able to satisfy myself that the Equinox was indeed missing items completely that seemed very obviously there to the V3i. One of note was a WW2 Airman Visor pin. Not easy to overlook. It had me scratching my head as target after desirable target was left behind by the Equinox, but picked up by the V3i. I began to wonder as late as a couple weeks ago whether I'd been suffering from wishful thinking and all the hype and hysteria around the Equinox.Then in other circumstances where a super fast recovery was required the Equinox would remind me of why I keep it around. Still those other items bothered me because they should've been spotted, not just by an Equinox but any good machine it would seem.

Since this update though, and the problem of items on edge being brought to light, it got me thinking about the things it missed. To my memory they were often near roots or peeled out of the side of my plugs. The Airman pin particularly was pressed into the side of a root to where it had a bend impression. Since the update I haven't noticed any further instances of the Equinox leaving obvious items behind for the V3i. There's something about my preferred settings for that machine that really shined a light on that issue. I still don't understand it because it would pick up items as tiny as a bb, but not higher conductors on edge, even often tilted or slanted coins. Maybe this has been an issue for others and they haven't even realized it. How would they. I'd certainly be rechecking some of my spots though, particularly around roots and rocky areas. 

I might not have noticed much difference either if I weren't preparing for a seeded hunt. I wanted to use the Equinox. But out of two handfuls of machines it seemed to do the worst with tilted coins, which can occur quite often during planting. It had trouble modulating them. It began to make sense to me when research suggested it had an issue with coins on edge and some rings. Then the update came out shortly before the hunt. I plugged in and updated without blinking when I saw a fix for that very issue. I brought it out and tested it and it was spot on after that. I was happy I could bring it to my hunt. This area lately is Deus and Whites Country. There wasn't the craze for the Equinox here in this part of NY that I saw sweeping the rest of the world, so I wanted to show it off and be different. In any case there did end up being a couple of other Equinoxes and we drove each other's machines nuts until we noise cancelled, but we all did very good. For my first seeded hunt ever, and as small an event as it was 65-70 people, I came home with literally a handful of silver and a token that won me a new pair of headphones, a Minelab hat and new issue of Eastern and Western Treasure. That update came at the right time and it seems to have done the machine good.

7 hours ago, Cal_Cobra said:

Good points.  You know what would be a great test, is if the Equinox was able to hold both firmware versions at once, and allow one to load either one.  Then you could do some nice A/B comparisons.  Suppose you could accomplish the same thing by bringing your laptop to the field and simply flip between the two firmware versions.  

I like your idea Cal, and these days, as cheap as memory is it would be feasible. I'd also like to see these updates able to be transferred from a cellphone either direct line in or wirelessly. God knows cell phones are now as powerful as some laptops. In some cases even more so. I'm surprised Minelab doesn't also have an App for the Equinox.