☠ Cipher

I agree with you. I often start out on a site cherry picking silver. I crank up discrimination and Max out sensitivity etc. Then I'll go back when I'm in the mood to try to sort out nickels and gold on my V3i. Cherry picking silver is a very quick and low trash process that ensures I'll walk away with something. But in the end, if I only hunt silver I could just use any lower cost powerful machine. All those bells and whistles would be wasted. Machines aren't good at sorting trash, but I've seen the people behind the machines get good at it using those bells and whistles like polar plot, spectragraph, Fe:Co numbers, variable notching and variable tone break etc.

Call me crazy, but I really like the grip and pinpoint trigger on those Ground EFX machines. A couple of times I thought about scooping a MX300-400 up to play around with and see if I could integrate it with another Whites machine. Next to that I like the pistol grip on an S rod, but some machines have a nice S rod grip by themselves like the Deus and MX Sport.

Can you relate?

I probably should've qualified that. When I say it works very well, I'm referring to the adhesive. My design is completely aesthetic. I'm not sure I'll ever have glare issues. I didn't with the V3i or the MX Sport, but liked the look of a visor on them. The CTX too, for that matter. The Equinox is a very plain looking machine and this I felt helped jazz it up a bit, that's all. I payed $3.50 for the material, of which I had a ton of excess, so if glare does become an issue, I'll make a taller version. Too tall and wind could be an issue for it, but I would imagine this design would work functionally well at dawn - couple hours past and again at a couple hours up to dusk depending on your orientation. Remember that the screen will be tilted toward you when in use as well. A visor only has to cast a shadow greater than the screen area and at these times the shadow should be longest. When the sun is directly overhead or thereabouts I don't know that visor would be completely helpful nomatter the size (without looking silly) but that's just a guess. There could be a design I'm not visualizing that would make a liar out of me. 

54 minutes ago, EL NINO77 said:

“A square-wave drive TX produces a triangle-wave current and magnetic field, which produces exponential eddy responses in targets. You can sample the RX response with early/mid/late sample windows and effectively get X and R from this.

In a sequential multifrequency (SMF) where short & long duration TX drives are temporally separated, you can easily use parallel demod channels with proper timing to extract the X & R for the different frequencies. No pre-filtering needed since the responses are not intermixed.

In a concurrent multifrequency (CMF) where short & long duration TX drives are intermixed, the RX signal is bandpass-filtered into each frequency channel for X & R demodulation. Then the signal is closer to a sine wave and can be demodulated using continuous-time methods, exactly the same as a single-frequency design. The White's V3 demonstrated that when the channel filtering isn't good enough, frequency cross-talk makes ground balancing exceptionally difficult. That's why the V3 GB doesn't work as well as it should.  - Carl- Geotech forum..”.     Very much I appreciate the thoughts Carl Moreland ....           CMF multifrekvenci is Spectra V3 ,.....and SMF multifrekvenci  is  EQUINOX... 

Thank you for that. I think I get it now. I've spent the last few months studying the difference in multifrequency designs trying to sort through the marketing gobbedlygook of BBS, FBS (which should stand for Frequency B.S.), Multi-IQ, and Spectra. Initially I bought into the claims that each brought to the table, but on closer inspection I found much more to the stories. In any event, knowing what the source of the problem is may help in minimizing it. For example, I wonder if the issue is more pronounced with different filter selections? I wonder if there's a way in the future to kind of pre-filter the signals, maybe with the creation of a sort of smart coil (I'm probably thinking out of my ass there and it may betray my ignorance on the more technical aspects of the issue). Do some coils exacerbate the issue, including the original D2? And one question that persists is why so many experienced and even proficient users claim it wasn't an issue on the V3 until it became the V3i. Obviously the same filters were present in both versions. 

On 3/28/2018 at 9:41 PM, roddosnow said:

Did you thermoform your visor yourself? or did you buy it?

 

I made it from sticky backed foam from wal-Mart. It's in the arts and crafts section. It comes in a pack of basic colors. I cut two pieces to make it. One larger piece and one smaller piece. I placed them back to back, so that no excess sticky part would be exposed, and left the bottom third of the the larger piece exposed to adhere to the machine. It works very well and wil not leave any residue on a tear off. So far it has stayed put, but I'm considering ways I could put it on and take it off without relying on the adhesive. 

On 3/31/2018 at 12:48 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

My main issue with the V3i has always been what I consider to be a poor ground balance system. I could never consider the V3i to be a machine I would want to prospect for gold with because of this. I really wish White’s had done a V3i with a simple MXT interface. Just give me a switch to flip between frequency options, a real ground balance option, and better yet stuff it in the MX Sport box. Oh well. The Equinox is a far better option for prospecting and for the beach and in dense trash. The V3i can coin hunt well but so can Equinox. We’re it not for my Bigfoot coil my V3i would already be gone.

Some interesting tidbits from Carl Moreland in this post. Carl was lead engineer at White’s and responsible for getting the V3i out the door. Includes this quote:

“The problem with the V3 GB has to do with the fundamentals of the MF design approach. It's a flawed system, and adding a third frequency really shined a light on the flaws. There was nothing more that could be done, short of scrapping the hardware and starting over. That was to be the V4.”

I'd like to see more elaboration on this by Carl if possible. What exactly about the hardware prevents an adequate or timely ground balance? Why are there V3/V3i users that insist that they did not have ground balance issues with the V3 before the "i" update? One user claims that Whites told him that in the "i" update they slowed the tracking down to gain a better ID. These claims would indicate that either software is the culprit or that software has made what began a slight hardware problem into a greater problem. This problem, whatever the source is disheartening because either way it will likely never be remedied.

It's important for me to note that in my northeastern soil, I have no problems with the V3i in terms of ground balance or otherwise. For a while I had noticed that it didn't keep up with changes like going from grassy areas to farmland, but then I discovered that I could adjust the tracking speed and I was good to go again. 

I would consider myself an advanced MD user. The complexity of the V3i that puts others off is what I love about it. I seem to have my V3i well tuned for my local conditions as so far I have not had the Equinox outperform my V3i in the couple of comparisons I've done in local parks. I was getting accurate readings down to around 8.5" with both. Both were able to pick silver out of dense trash once I adjusted the reactivity/recovery on both machines. This is a good thing in my book. I wasn't looking for something that would be better than my V3i. I was looking for something that could do as well as my V3i that I could use in the water and bad weather. Something I could bring on vacation to beaches. So far I find the Equinox to be better than the MX Sport, but I'm not ready to say its better or worse than my V3i for my local conditions. I purchased a go-pro holder setup this weekend so I can run them both through a series of tests that I can demonstrate. 

Im sure there are areas where the GB problem others are experiencing would be more pronounced, I just haven't experienced them here to a level that would bother me. But I am bothered that I may eventually encounter such issues and that they are rooted in hardware. 

I should be able to contribute to this thread in the very near future as I've held onto my V3i and will be comparing it to my Equinox 600 this spring, and probably the 800 this summer. I continue to believe the V3i has rewards for those that show it patience and persistence. But if it's being outdone despite my best efforts, I'm not afraid to send it on its way. 

I've been playing around with a few things myself. Added a visor to the control box, ☠ iron on to my arm cuff strap, and a flashlight/powerbank/pinpointer holder to the shaft for now. More to come. Ground was frozen on one of my permissions but I wanted to see if I'd get some high conductive hits since it was pretty well cleaned out before by many top machines. I did get some very promising new hits. Bummer I couldn't dig them.

On 2/24/2018 at 1:15 PM, EL NINO77 said:

Equinox can use 1-4  wireles  audio ouputs at once,-in 50 tone, so it will not be a problem to use some spectral sound analyzer in a mobile phone ... even though a good sound signal is being heard ... and then VDI...

Ive began experimenting with mobile phone sound analysis myself. There's no shortage of apps for this and it's going to be an interesting experiment 

I don't know that it will hold true for long that single frequency will outsell multi. If you're a manufacturer looking at the market now, in terms of do it all single frequency, where would you see profit incentive in creating any new single frequency platforms?

Multifrequency will take over the $649+ market. The multiple single selectable will take over the $259-$600 (X-Terra's with their new aftermarket coils allow frequency change without coil changes. Then there's the impact, Kruzer, and a few overseas manufacturers). Most single frequency machines are going to be pushed down into the low end of the market. But for how long?

I doubt everyone is just going to back off and let Minelab have the $649+ market, or Minelab and Nokta have the multiple selectable $259-$600 (it is my belief that Makro/Nokta will have to bring the Impact and multi-Kruzer down to sub $649 in the near future.) They are either going to offer the same for less or more for the same. Either way, more capability will continue to be crammed into more machines for less money.

It's not going to be all that long before being able to at least switch frequencies is as common as VDI, or ground balancing. It wasn't that long ago that VDI was a very costly feature. We now see it on $60-$129 machines. Once the R+D phase is done, it's all just flashing software to hardware. The single frequency market is about to become extremely bottom heavy, with an overwhelming number of choices. Market share on the bottom end will be so divided that it's hard to see it being profitable to mass market so many different models.

$10,000-$12,000. So certainly not for the hobby market. But I believe it's only a matter of a short time before technology like this reaches the hobby market. Minelab has incorporated a crude version of imaging into the CTX already in the form of target trace. There have been hints that First Texas has been developing imaging for use in hobby machines. If you think about it, it's one of a few remaining logical next steps in a hobby that has been cornered by the laws of physics for a while now. The first company that incorporates competent imaging in a machine under $2,000 is going to run away with the market, even if it comes off as a bit gimmicky at first. Here, it's not just the price that is prohibitive though. Most detectorists make quick decisions about what to dig and not to dig. Outside of suspected caches, consulting with a separate piece of hardware is not feasible for people other than In the professions this targets. It would have to be incorporated into and accessed from the machine. This feature in the hobby market would be a bit like waterproofing. It probably wouldn't be often used on your average dig, but people would love the idea that it's there. The idea of that big score, hidden cache or buried hoard is always in the back of our mind. And you'd see more of us planning digs to make use of such technology. For now it'll have to remain a dream for most of us to own something like this. Very impressive though. 

It is amazing to me that one individual can put this together by himself, and yet we've not seen anything like it from Whites despite the popularity of waterproof machines since the launch of the V3i. They are pretty good with this stuff in the Ukraine. They made the custom waterproof housing I have for the Ace series. Fits like a glove. I hope they one day market a kit for the V3i and other machines. 

Great show! At this point I'm sitting here armed with my V3i, my Equinox, Bullseye TRX and some of the best digging equipment in the industry, but 2 feet of snow. So I get my fix here on the forum, listening to things like this, Curse of Oak Island/Civil War Gold, and of Whites annual Nationwide Easter egg hunt (check it out guys. Each dealer hides 6 eggs with 5 silver tokens worth $25 in Whites gear and one gold worth $100 of Whites gear. Each token enters you in a chance to win a metal detector or TRX). 

I live in the breadbasket and site of several battles of the revolutionary war. It seems to most, if not all of us that all the relics associated with these battles have not been recovered. This area seems to have a high sink rate as well. I have always had my eye on equipment like this for that reason and to be honest just because of how cool it is. I'll definitely be watching how this one shakes out price wise, but if it's anything like the others before it, probably out of my financial reach this year.

There's only 3 that I consider worth the time and money anymore. The Carrot doesn't even make my top 5. I like the Bullseye TRX, the F-Pulse or Tek-Point, and the ProFind 35.

I've been saying exactly this for a while now. You have machines like the MX Sport and AT Max at $750 and $722. They offer embarrassingly little in comparison to a $649 machine. The MX Sport is a beast in mild to moderate inland soil and freshwater conditions. It's incredibly deep and fast. But it got off to such a rough start that it never got the traction it needed to grab its market share before Minelab came out to deliver the fatal blow.

Over time the Max stands to lose the most in the all terrain market as this sorts itself out as it is the dead last performer aside from the older AT models. What pricepoint could it survive at against a 3 single/5 multi frequency machine...$550? Doubtful. I'm as miserly as they come and I'd rather pay the extra $100 for the extra frequencies and multi. I'd argue that unless Garret can put the max out there for around $399-$449, they should pack it up and go back to the drawing board.

It's not just the Equinox and MX Sport they have to contend with having better machines, they also have the Kruzer series now. I also don't see the Kruzers surviving where they are priced either. The multi Kruzer is going to have to come in at around $550-$579, the regular Kruzer around $450-$479. The Max and Sport will have to come in at that low point as well or exit the stage. Most people would prefer an all terrain machine. You can see machines like the AT Pro and Gold coming in at $350-$400 and that pushes a lot of mid market machines into the upper-low end of the spectrum, where even there they have to compete with the dual and triple single selectable frequency Minelab X-Terra's. 

Outwardly, these companies seem to be in denial about this. I do wonder if that carries into the board room. Most commonly I see the defense that these machines haven't been vetted in unbiased hands. We ARE talking about Minelab here, not Ground EFX or Pyle. And long before it reached the general public there were testers like Steve that can be relied upon. At some point very soon these companies will have to acknowledge that this machine is a game changer and respond accordingly. 

Im one of those "Go USA!" Guys and it's been sad to see what's happened to them by not taking Minelab and XP seriously for so long. But I do believe First Texas gets what they must do in their next gen machines and are doing it. I think when they do respond with new machines they will pull out front for quite some time. It's Whites and Garrett I worry more about because they've had more releases recently that have focused on single frequency mid market machines again. This reflects a denial about where the market is going. It's a waste of time and resources that should've been directed at the top of the market, multi and pulse development. Their aim at the single frequency mid market says to me that they either don't get the customer base or they have terrible spies, as I'm confident that if I wanted to direct my time, technological skills, and resources at Minelab I'd have known about the Equinox long ago. My wife can confirm this if anyone doubts me lol.  

Looks like maybe the Jeohunter is coming to hobby detecting. All I can say is wow! Way to go Makro. This will be a hit! Equinox who?

19 hours ago, BeachHunter said:

Nice setup Cipher. 

It's not my machine, unfortunately. Mine has been delayed in shipping until at least tomorrow probably due to regional storms. I saw this on eBay. The seller was trying to market it as something special he created for the Equinox and asking over $30 for. Broken down, it only costs $10. I have a flashlight holder and flashlight on each of my machines, but never thought of using a flashlight/power bank combo on the Equinox, so that was great thinking by this seller. It prompted me to look into other power banks and that's when I started to see solar powered and waterproof. Some great options for enhanced day to night hunting 

It's fun to me to speculate what they might have that is going to "knock our socks off." Something "ground breaking." That will have features and ways of discriminating that we have not thought of before if I remember correctly. Will it strike the perfect balance of time and frequency domain analysis? Seems Minelab has been at that for a while with BBS, FBS, and FBS 2. I'd imagine Multi-IQ is another variant but rather than using the same two frequencies in alternating sequence, the signal is "weighted" to the task at hand (the algorithm is 20 and 40khz heavy in gold mode, but 5khz heavy in beach). To that end, timing seems as important as the frequencies utilized. 

Maybe they will utilize a magnetic field. Seems every company is exploring that idea. Isn't some form of magnetic wave incorporated into the GPZ 7000 platform? 

I remember much of their focus being on how to better neutralize the ground. Obviously any further depth out of a VLF machine could only come from making the ground more invisible and target more visible. 

In any case, it seems to me like they've dumped the CZX and Mosca platforms in favor of other things. Maybe that coincides with the hiring of the French engineer with his new and developed ideas for pulse induction. Now they have Carl, which is awesome. I think he will help push this company forward. Seems a strong forward thinking personality. 

Found this on eBay and confirmed that it is only 1 of 4 made. I know Russ B. Owns one. This guy stumbled in into his on the FB marketplace and then discovered how rare it is. I think the bottom line may be a bit ambitious, but who knows. 

Buy yourself a metal detecting flashlight holder $5, and a power bank with built in flashlight $5-$20. I personally prefer the larger waterproof solar power bank with dual LEDs. Great for night time surf hunts All available on eBay. 

I have a certain OCD about the way detectors look. I will even sacrifice a little practicality for aesthetics. I'm like this with everything from cars, to home to metal detectors. I put up with the weight of the MX Sport partly because it's a gorgeous machine. To this day I miss the F75 LTD partly because it's one of the best looking machines ever made. So now I'll have the Equinox in my hands tomorrow and I don't like the looks of a straight shaft on most machines, but particularly the Equinox. I've seen that I'm not the only one that thinks so, in many forums. I've even gotten to see what it looks like with an S rod in another forum and it makes a world of difference. Looks like a whole different machine with just that one change, but the problem the modifier ran into is that he can't find an S rod that will connect. Everything he tries is a little off, so that's probably going to drive me nuts for a while lol. 

Thanks Steve, you put me on to some great information there. Never knew the TRX nearly had wireless adaptation, and am very excited that eventually the Tek-Point/F-Pulse will have it. Makes me wonder what machine the TRX would've linked up to, and has piqued my imagination about what the FT pinpointers will link to. Still believe amazing things are coming from FT soon.