☠ Cipher

On 8/6/2018 at 9:07 AM, Monte said:

Chuck, Please excuse my delay in responding to your post.  This getting old crap is sure making life miserable at times.  I've been living with pain and impaired mobility off-and-on since an on-the-job injury in Sept. of '87 when I worked at Compass, but full-time misery since late '90.  Then an injury March 2nd of this year left me with a mild tear to my left rotator cuff, and a complex fall on my cement driveway the first of April caused a severe tear to my right rotator cuff and other issues in my shoulder and neck. 

The resulting issues have really limited my opportunities to get out detecting this past four months, but when I do the bulk of my swing-time is spent with a White's model in-hand.  Oh, I still manage to get some time in with my also excellent working Nokta CoRe and Relic devices, but lighter weight and comfortable balance are what I crave the most so far this year.

I ended 2017 using a terrific, multi-purpose MX-7 as the only White's in my current Regular-Use Detector Team, but I now enjoy owning and using several models of that brand that have all proven themselves to me in the past.   I started out the year by adding a 'Noah hand-me-down'  XLT to my 'detector team' and equipped myself with my preferred 6½" Concentric coil for it.  In May I made a trade of a brand new extra MX-7 for a choice-condition modified Classic ID with the 5½" Ferret Concentric coil.

I swapped a back-up Nokta FORS Relic for an MX Sport in June or July, and then on the 28th of last month I bought an MX-5 'package' that included the 6½" Concentric coil.   I live in the high plateau desert region of far Eastern Oregon so I'm not close to any sandy coastal beaches, and my hampered mobility and use of a cane full-time make it difficult to beach hunt in soft, loose sand the past quarter century.

Besides, I can't swim and never did more than wade out only to very shallow depths when I did.  I like the MX Sport, but I plan to sell it with a brand new set of waterproof headphones and an extra search coil simply because I don't need it because my MX-7 uses the same circuitry and serves all my needs.  The MX-7 and modified Classic ID with the smaller coil are my two most comfortable TID equipped detectors to handle, and all of my 'team' spend the bulk of their time Relic Hunting and perhaps 10% to 20% of the time are used for typical Coin Hunting applications.

There's no such thing as a 'perfect' detector which is why I also have current models from Fisher, Makro, Nokta and Tesoro, along with some older favorites I occasionally use but mainly have for seminars and training sessions.  Those include Compass TR's, a Garrett Hunter BFO and TR-Disc. units, and an early Teknetics Mark I Ltd.

Naturally, every detector that makes the cut to be on my Regular-Use Team has to have functional features and in-the-field performance, but I can't ignore the 'fun factor', either.  'All' models that stay in my arsenal are 'fun' to use, and I do get a lot of 'fun' and enjoyment out of using my MX-7.

Like you, I am not certain why so many have been caught up in the XP and Minelab offerings this past three or four years, and it seems like many USA based manufacturers have been ignored over that period of time.  I know that I hear from some people who think the MX Sport / MX-7 are repackaged clones from the MXT / MXT Pro, but they are based on new circuitry and do have different features and some differences in performance as well.

Perhaps some of the terrible promotional videos at release time for the MX Sport didn't help, nor the fact that it was rushed-to-market before pre-production field use and evaluation which left early releases with a lot of glitches.  Well, they got those worked out and went on to make a great land-use version of the Sport with the MX-7.

I do wish more White's consumers would step up and contribute their views as there have to be more than the two of us using these really versatile models.

Monte

You are Monte of Monte's Nail Board Test, no doubt. Very cool to hear from you here as I carry a printed copy of your test in a kit of tests I've assembled. I just recently put a Whites Classic ID I modified using Mr. Bill mods up against many other machines, and was amazed at how well it did against even one of my brand new machines of another brand. In fact, it did the best nomatter how hard I tried to mess with settings on that or any other detector I have currently. It got me wondering how the MX Sport would've done on the nailboard test. I too have owned the MX Sport and I have no complaints about it other than the weight. It's the best single frequency machine I've used in a long time. If I happen upon a good trade opportunity it will be back in my arsenal. Right now as far as Whites goes I have a Whites Classic 1, Whites Classic ID, Whites 5900di SL Pro, Whites XLT, 2 Whites V3s (experimental purposes), Whites V3i. This list changes from month to month as I buy, sell and trade. 

I think that for going outside the Equinox for all terrain hunting so many people are making a huge mistake overlooking the MX Sport. It's a shame that it had such a rough rollout. I think it's had a lasting prejudicial effect. If you're not going to go the way of the Equinox, and you can get past a bit of unecessary weight, I've seen no other machine consistently bring home the goods like the MX Sport. I was using it before the Nox, and went to the Nox not because I was dissatisfied with the Sport, but because the Nox offers more in a single package. If the Nox didn't exist, it would be no contest for me. I'd go back to the Sport. It is probably the most capable, yet overlooked single frequency machine on the market. 

The Anfibio "multi" seems like a nice single selectable frequency machine with great depth, but I really think trying to go head to head with the $899 MSRP of another by now very popular machine is a mistake. Similarly I think the 14khz single Anfibio going head to head with and 19khz exceeding the MSRP of another $649 machine is a mistake. Build quality and aesthetics looks to be a no contest check in the Nokta-Makro column though. I don't know that that is enough to bridge the gap. We'll soon see I guess. 

Submitted. Very cool contest. 

Just a quick search of tools available through an iOS Jailbreak on Cydia or on an Android device gives me hope that I could extract the code using a sniffer app and use a code generator to communicate with them or construct an interface they would be able to communicate with. Who knows, these days a dongle may not even be a necessary medium. Program aides and simulators have come a long way since the V3 was envisioned and brought to market.

19 hours ago, Cal_Cobra said:

I assume the headphones are running on unlicensed 2.4GHz, and that the data stream is not encrypted (wouldn't make a lot of sense to encrypt it), so if those assumptions are correct, you could simply use a wireless sniffer to see what's being xmited between the V3's.  Heck even if it is encrypted, it's so old, that the encryption method was likely cracked years ago. 

 

 

You may be on to something there. I have been thinking about a jailbreak app on iPhone I remember that did just that. It may have even been called "Sniffer." I still have those V3s and need to jailbreak this iPhone and we may have it. I've been distracted by a kayak trolling motor project and modding a couple old Whites Classics, but the V3s are on my short list. I'm not letting them go until I've recorded ground balance comparisons with the V3i and have done my best to capture the code they use to transfer programs etc.  

This is the one I'm waiting for. I've been very disappointed in the Super 12 I have for my V3i. For a larger concentric it didn't offer any more depth than the stock 10" DD and it should have. I should've went with my gut on the Detech 13, but that piggy bank is now reserved for this coil.

Very nice!

I know that I started out with a bias against Makro/Nokta. Having a soft spot for First Texas, the design borrowing, bordering on outright imitation of the Racer series seemed obvious to me. Then their obsession with targeting the depth of the F75 LTD in development of the Impact added to my opinion that they were trying to climb into the industry on the back of First Texas' hard work and R+D. As a person who buys, sells, and trades any machine I can get my hands on and keeping the ones I like, I never took to any of their products. They were simply a revolving door set of products to me. There still to this day don't seem to be any currently available that I feel the need to own aside from the imaging machines which is an area other manufacturers better be paying attention to. If there's any area Makro/Nokta leads, it is there, and already!!!

That brings me to my overall point. They are making strides that are hard not to notice. They are improving on the morphing of the Impact in ways that are hard to ignore. As an Anfibio it is tempting to me in ways it wasn't before. The pinpointer nearly has me sold on the innovation alone. And although I suspect they may find that simultaneous multifrequency is a whole different ballgame and a lot more difficult to bring to a finished product than they might expect, I am beginning to believe they can do it.

Once they go there, and if it brings something new or improved to the table they will be impossible to ignore. It'll certainly make me wonder what has been wrong over at First Texas for so long. At this point, to my knowledge only 3 companies have "simultaneous" multi. Out of those Minelab is the only current creator. Whites has struggled since the V3i/VX3 nearly 10 years ago and Fishers machines are CZs from the 90s. Look on the DIY market for a home brew multi diy kit. You won't find one. You'll find VLF and PI, but nothing for multi. Tells you just how daunting it is. The idea that Makro may be on the verge already should be jaw dropping. Deus doesn't even have it. Garret doesn't have it etc.  

7 hours ago, steveg said:

I have no idea yet, on any increased propensity for the EQX to want to give "coin" indications on deep rusty nails after the update, BUT -- I have heard reports of possibly a bit of increase in sensitivity.  If this is true, a corresponding uptick in affinity for rusty nails would make some sense, but I wonder if a bump or two upwards in iron bias might help to tame that a bit, if it is indeed an issue?

Steve

Improved detection of items on edge might also affect how it sees rusty nails if you think about the 2D shape an item on edge takes. 

It just occurred to me that a while back, I and some other V3i users noted on this forum that there were items the Equinox was leaving behind that the V3i was picking up. I've spent quite a good share of time since spring comparing the two purposefully, carefully running them over the same small, manageable patches of ground, with overlapping swings and multiple passes. So I was able to satisfy myself that the Equinox was indeed missing items completely that seemed very obviously there to the V3i. One of note was a WW2 Airman Visor pin. Not easy to overlook. It had me scratching my head as target after desirable target was left behind by the Equinox, but picked up by the V3i. I began to wonder as late as a couple weeks ago whether I'd been suffering from wishful thinking and all the hype and hysteria around the Equinox.Then in other circumstances where a super fast recovery was required the Equinox would remind me of why I keep it around. Still those other items bothered me because they should've been spotted, not just by an Equinox but any good machine it would seem.

Since this update though, and the problem of items on edge being brought to light, it got me thinking about the things it missed. To my memory they were often near roots or peeled out of the side of my plugs. The Airman pin particularly was pressed into the side of a root to where it had a bend impression. Since the update I haven't noticed any further instances of the Equinox leaving obvious items behind for the V3i. There's something about my preferred settings for that machine that really shined a light on that issue. I still don't understand it because it would pick up items as tiny as a bb, but not higher conductors on edge, even often tilted or slanted coins. Maybe this has been an issue for others and they haven't even realized it. How would they. I'd certainly be rechecking some of my spots though, particularly around roots and rocky areas. 

I might not have noticed much difference either if I weren't preparing for a seeded hunt. I wanted to use the Equinox. But out of two handfuls of machines it seemed to do the worst with tilted coins, which can occur quite often during planting. It had trouble modulating them. It began to make sense to me when research suggested it had an issue with coins on edge and some rings. Then the update came out shortly before the hunt. I plugged in and updated without blinking when I saw a fix for that very issue. I brought it out and tested it and it was spot on after that. I was happy I could bring it to my hunt. This area lately is Deus and Whites Country. There wasn't the craze for the Equinox here in this part of NY that I saw sweeping the rest of the world, so I wanted to show it off and be different. In any case there did end up being a couple of other Equinoxes and we drove each other's machines nuts until we noise cancelled, but we all did very good. For my first seeded hunt ever, and as small an event as it was 65-70 people, I came home with literally a handful of silver and a token that won me a new pair of headphones, a Minelab hat and new issue of Eastern and Western Treasure. That update came at the right time and it seems to have done the machine good.

7 hours ago, Cal_Cobra said:

Good points.  You know what would be a great test, is if the Equinox was able to hold both firmware versions at once, and allow one to load either one.  Then you could do some nice A/B comparisons.  Suppose you could accomplish the same thing by bringing your laptop to the field and simply flip between the two firmware versions.  

I like your idea Cal, and these days, as cheap as memory is it would be feasible. I'd also like to see these updates able to be transferred from a cellphone either direct line in or wirelessly. God knows cell phones are now as powerful as some laptops. In some cases even more so. I'm surprised Minelab doesn't also have an App for the Equinox. 

I didn't have such great luck with my order. I ordered the 5.3" shooter for my older XLT/5900di Pro SL models and a bunch of other odds and ends like a diving rod, patches etc to fill the order more since shipping within certain parameters was the same. A week later I check UPS tracking and they dropped it off on a post office a day early and the wrong one with no call or explanation as to why they didn't deliver it to my address as usual. What usually happens here is it gets sent back if it ends up at the wrong post office, so I called up and they were nice enough to say come on over and grab it. I opened it and no coil. It was crossed off the order even though from all indications my order went through at checkout. So now I have all these other odds and ends I just ordered kinda because haha and not the coil I was excited about. I got over it, but then later in the week I see that same coil advertised again on Facebook to promote the sale, but at this point I'm too jaded to try it again. Same with the 15" coils. Very tempted on those, but I was left scratching my head at the whole transaction. I guess it was just my turn lol. Love Whites anyway.

Whites seems to be trying to rebuild its lineup from the bottom up. They have to get to the top of the line eventually. To me the V3i has great bones for a new flagship if they would add better demod filters, more aggressive tracking, a couple more frequencies, much more speed, imaging, updates, mobile online interface, and waterproof housing. I've been very critical of Whites reluctance to listen to guys like Carl Moreland and get on board the technology boom. They have been somewhat left behind, but that is more from a gadgety and feature perspective. They do still have machines, new and old, that in the proper hands can go out there and kick some ass nomatter how many features and gadgety gimmicks other machines have. I love the iconic black box style machines as do many old timers. But it's time to add a modern flare to those boxes and what they've done so far is not it. It needs to be more integrated into the shaft so it doesn't just look like a box on a pole. I'd like to see more detailed and comfortable arm cuffs with a box that flares on the edges a bit and covers the shaft. The MX Sport is gorgeous. Something between that and the black box might please everyone and retain some of that classic iconic look. 

Recommendations for the Makro-Nokta Synchron:

•ability to run in multi or single

•ability to choose the number of frequencies run simultaneously (I realize this may present very complex engineering hurdles)

•ability to decide from options how frequencies are processed 

•develop an app to integrate cell phones into your ecosystem. Gps, map overlays etc. Imaging source...many possibilities as a secondary information and remote source.

integrate imaging into this platform if possible. A flagship should have a color screen, signagraph, and some level of imaging equal to or greater than Minelab's target trace. Not all on the same screen necessarily, but available for selection as a target ID analysis source. 

•incorporate magnetism to better ID ferrous objects

•develop a VLF form of your new pinpointer which will wirelessly adopt basic disc settings and deliver sound through headphones 

•do make a synchron vibration option. I find it useful particularly underwater. 

Im sure I'll think of more, but for now I'll say your efforts are impressive. You're gaining ground at a breakneck pace. I'm becoming more interested by the day and I'm very into what I already have. Thank you for creating a concentric coil. Not everyone has harsh soil conditions and when conditions are favorable a concentric is the right tool for the job and can punch deeper than a similar sized DD. I wouldn't mind seeing a 15" concentric done right. 

I'm wondering what differences are between the anfibio and multi-Kruzer? I'm a big fan of your pinpointer already. I will say that. Very innovative and that's what I like to see. Is there a price for the anfibio(s) yet, and if so what will they cost? I don't know if you've come up with a name for the waterproof simultaneous multi machine yet, but I would recommend The Makro Nokta Synchronic, or Synchron if you like the short of it. 

IP rating is 5 meters, which is the same as the multi-Kruzer. So I'm confused as to what purpose the machine serves other than portability and integration of product lines maybe. Other than that I can't tell what sets it apart. I would love to know the price though. 

What's the difference between the Anfibio Multi and the Makro Multi Kruzer? Seems to be just IP rating, which does matter to a guy like me since I'm getting into underwater detecting. This machine would be of interest to me if I understand how deep underwater it can go. And that pinpointer...wow, I love it, and I will own it. In any case, I wouldn't look at any single or single selectable as a replacement for the Equinox. There's no substitute for true Multi in many circumstances, no matter how many superfluous single frequencies are offered (Deus et. al.) or how deep they are in some soil conditions (Makro, Fisher et. al.). But this machine might be a welcome addition for some applications if it's as good as it looks to be. 

Anyone have a photo? I bought the cover intended for the Sovereign and have been very happy with it. Nice thick neoprene with Minelab logos on both sides. A bit pricey at $29.95, but worth it to me. I'm always on the lookout for covers I might be able to use on my other machines too.

An interesting machine for sure. Wish they'd integrated the analizer into an onboard component and drop the price by about 80% though haha

I just posted on the Garage Sale before noticing this post. I bought a couple things, the 5.3" shooter and diving rod. 

Some deals include:

15" concentric coils for XLT, MXT, DFX, 5900DI etc for $110 each

5.3" shooter for XLT/6000/5900/Classic ID etc for $40

diving rod for $30

hip mount kits slashed in half

I had the 600, and I think the biggest reason I sold it and bought an 800 is precisely this...I didn't want to have to keep asking myself the very question you just have. Just having to wonder if I was missing anything or leaving anything on the table drove me nuts! I am also a bargain hunter and I knew that at some point, nomatter how good I know the Equinox is, it's not going to be someone's cup of tea. Sure enough. As soon as supply ramped up I found one for just a little more than a new 600, and I jumped on it. I even planned to sell the WM 08 and the headphones it comes with. The headphones I may still, but I fell for that little WM 08 module and now I'm glad I have it. 7 and 8 on the recovery side are noticeably quicker than 3 on the 600 (which is equivalent to 6 on the 800). I can't say I've noticed extra depth from running recovery at 1 on the 800 as opposed to 1 on the 600 (which is equivalent to 2 on the 800) yet, but just the possibility was enough to bother me if I opted to stay on the 600.  

I don't own a Kruzer of any kind, and I don't have an impact, although I've had an opportunity to use it and I do have an Equinox 800. The Impact was an extremely deep machine in the little time I had with it. I don't have a problem with the Equinox depth, but if I had to bet, I think there are circumstances where the Impact or Multi-Kruzer would best the Equinox for flat out depth. Not target ID to depth ratio, but flat out until you just barely get a tone type depth. That does matter to some guys. Many guys in fact, until they begin digging all that way only to find that trash hides pretty deep too. Still there are days where I myself will commit that I'm going to dig a certain number of targets as deep as I can reach. I have my dig everything days as well. Some of the other arguments I have seen guys make are that the Kruzer has a better build, a better IP rating, and as Steve pointed out, a wider coil selection for now. A concentric coil is a strong preference for me in milder ground coin shooting, which is one reason I continue to hold onto and use my V3i, and may eventually get a DFX. The DFX especially has a very wide and large coil selection, some offerings from 18"-21". So I can see why someone would choose a Kruzer, but I wouldn't. In the end, the Equinox offers much more, and if you're like me, if you wanted both you can certainly find ways to own them both.