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Tom_in_CA

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  1. Chuck, This thread, and your response, reminded me of a humorous story . This was posted on a forum a few years back: A newbie shows up at his city-hall park's dept. office, to ask if he can detect in the city parks (I guess he thought he "needed permission" or "better safe than sorry , so I should ask if ok"). The clerks at the front desk had no idea what he was talking about. So after some back-for-explanation, the desk clerk excused herself , and went back to her superiors in the back offices. She emerged a minute later with a "no", and handed him a brochure. The brochure was from the local utility Co, that said "Call before you dig" . And on the cover was a picture of a backhoe digging giant pits in a construction site. When the man realized this was talking about heavy equipment , sewer lines, and utilities-type-things, he objected and told her that this is talking about people who are going to dig 6 ft deep ! Not applicable to md'rs who only dig 6 inches deep. He handed the brochure back to her. She leafed through it, and said to him "But sir, it doesn't say HOW deep, it just says ANY digging". And handed the brochure back to the man. The poor guy left the office more confused than when he'd arrived. So let's face it fellas : We're all criminals. We should all be calling the local utility Co "before we dig". I know you are all grief-stricken with guilt for your crimes. But not to worry. Just box up all your stuff and send it to me. I will absolve your conscience of all guilt πŸ™‚
  2. I love it. I just love it. I will point out this quote to my friend. And chide him : "Tsk Tsk". Just to watch him pull his hair out, haha Ok he will ask : "Pray-tell : What settings did I do wrong ? " Because, mind you, it's never the machine, right ? It's always the user, right ?
  3. Then I must have mis-read something. You might be right. I might have been thinking of some poor reviews (yet that didn't have to do with EMI). And now that you mention it, I HAVE seen posts to the exact contrary (doh!). That some people think it has HELPED with any zones vulnerable to EMI. In fact, that was one of our reasons to go out for a re-match, now that I think of it. That: Maybe this will clear up the chatter that seems to start by 7am on this inner-city-noisy street. But to be safe, we started about 12:30am, so that there'd be no stone left un-turned. But still ... a dismal failure 😞
  4. Dan, this might be true for park turf. Which isn't a blanket of iron. But in my one-time trial period for the carrot, I was at a relicky site with a CTX . And ... it was quite nerve-racking to have the carrot give me a target, which I'd fumble around at-length to find. And finally .... drum-roll .... a teeny bit of iron (thumb-tack sized cr*p or whatever). And repeat a few times. In other words, it seemed like every hole invariably had something else in there that competed with the conductive object. And as you know, that problem is immediately solved with an in-line probe. Don't you get annoyed when small foil or something leads you away from your desired target ? But you're right : Other people have adapted. And have no problem with non-discriminating probes. And now they're even making discriminating probes. Albeit only iron vs non-iron. Not full (or not very expanded) TID.
  5. Yup. Definitely lighter. And yes, does some things the Explorers can't . Like do a cross-over to nuggets. And cross-over to micro-jewelry (if either of those goals was something someone desired ). And yes, can be set up to be a ghost-townsy iron-hunter. And yes, waterproof for someone not wanting to lug around the heavier Excals or CTX's . BUT, there's more to it : 1) Doesn't allow for the inline sunray probe 😞 (that was deal-killer on the CTX for me, for instance). 2) I have yet to see that it outperforms the Exp II in the turf (but am willing to be shown). C'mon, get up here ! πŸ™‚
  6. Since you say it's possible to happen to the Nox too, then I'm willing to say that this is one of those rare flukes. As I say, I realize it's not conclusive. Which only makes me want to try the same tests elsewhere. We shall see. Because since the nox kicked my #ss at a relicky site, then I sure as heck want one, *if* it can be shown to likewise kick my #ss in turf. So far, I haven't seen that. I'd be willing to simply get one *only* for relicky sites . Except that there's probably matching ability in several other machines. Like the Deus, the Racer, etc.... And it's also tempting to make the plunge for no-other-reason than it's waterproof. But seeing as how we've had 3 lame winters in a row (no storm erosion), I rarely hunt the beach anymore. Nor is angling for micro-jewelry an interest for me.
  7. Dan, as I said, I would agree with chalking up differences to "experience", if the only thing the 2 guys did is to compare end of the day tallies. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE. We're talking flagged signals. Where NO amount of added time and added years of experience will change a signal that's simply not there in the first place. And/or that no amount of control configurations make the signal sound any different than the static and shallow trash you're wanting to pass. My friend *could * sometimes bring-in the flagged target. But then he'd be brutally honest and admit that once he toyed with the settings to get it, that it rendered the machine a noisy useless heap elsewhere. And trust me: He's been on forums for the past year reading anything and everything he can about the pros & con's of every setting. And he did quite well (spanked me) with his Nox in a Gold rush relicky site. Him and Greg. S (whom you know ) kicked my b*tt with their Nox's, in THAT type venue. But I have yet to see it happen in turf. ( Greg S has moved out of CA as of a few weeks ago, if you haven't heard. ) No. I'm referring to the SE with the pro coil. Not that original lemon coil Don't get "lost in the example". I was only referring to your citing your tallies, as somehow being proof of an authoritative voice on this latest matter of Exp. vs Nox in turf. For example, you've noticed that in manufacturer advertisements, sure enough they can find someone, who's used their machine, that has a DAZZLING table display. Yet as you know : That alone does not automatically mean : "Therefore That machine spanks all others". It merely means that single guy did good with that machine. And yes, Minelabs have taken over the market (in probably most states by now). 20+ yrs. ago, in a group hunt of 30 people here in CA, you'd see a variety of Whites, Fisher, Garrett, Tesoro, and Minelab, eh ? And now, 20 yrs. later, what do you see ? 95% of them will be swinging Minelabs. Doh ! I can only imagine my friend tearing his hair out if he reads this paragraph. Because ... Dan ... we're not talking "mere tolerance to some chatter" here. He pulled his headphone jack out to let me hear what he was hearing. And there is no way in h#ll that any hunter can hunt (and get any depth on hard-targets) with that sort of chatter. Something was/is definitely wrong, that is WELL BEYOND mere "tolerance" and "experience" levels. The problem with you potentially coming up , to try this exact area, is that if the same thing happens to you too, you can write it off as an isolated fluke, on *just* that night or day. It would be inconclusive, to where no-amount of getting spanked would convince you. I'd certainly love to try it though. And from there, no shortage of other turf within 30 min. drive, with totally different flavors.
  8. I wish he/we had the liberty to return 10x, to determine "flukes" vs on-going-norm. I know you're of the opinion that the susceptibility to EMI has NOT changed (ie.: become more vulnerable) with the V3. But seems that others, on forum chit-chat, are not agreeing with this. Seems that others say it makes the Nox more vulnerable. But if you're right, and they're wrong, it's doubtful my friend will want to go back "10 times to confirm they're not 10 flukes in a row". Because he's sickened after yesterday's results. He probably hates the place by now . Doh ! *At best* I can maybe get him to some other turf for some more re-matches/experiments. But truth be told, he might simply be more into relicky sites and demolition. He's not in love with turf as much as you and I enjoy turf (the strategy, the challenge, etc....) No. No one has. But then again, I've only hunted turf a few times with any Nox users. And each time the "spankings" could be written off to other factors. Also, my primary hunting partner (also a Nox fan) is simply not into turf. He's a relicky-site guy (stage stops, etc...). But on the other hand, he will swear up and down that the Nox will be superior in turf. But I can't drag him out to "show me". Because A) he's not a turf hunter, and B) he would summarily write-off any differences to skill-level in that venue. Both are understandable excuses. So the jury is still out. Dan, If you think the SE and the II are identical in ability, then you are breaking ranks with many long-time respected Explorer experts. Like our mutual friend Ron. The SE takes more coaxing to get a TID. Whereas the II tends to get to the hint on the "first pass over it". We can agree to disagree on this. And no, I don't doubt your tallies. So-too is there no doubt someone out there with an Ace 250, who can likewise boast astounding results. But we both know that we would not attribute it to the machine. We'd attribute it to skill of user , and locations of hunts. So I say that I don't disagree with your observation of Nox vs SE in turf. But that's not because I think "the Nox beats Exp. in turf". It's because I have never much cared for the SE. But as you say, it's no use us debating this. We can agree to disagree. All I can say is, that if you a) maintain that yesterday was a fluke (which perhaps it was), and b) On another day, the interference won't be there, and c) that if Dan were there "on those non-fluke days", that the Nox can spank an Exp. II, then : This is totally flying in the face of our 3 to 4 attempts here. And while it's true that on those earlier trips he was a Nox-rookie, yet : We were doing flagged comparisons. NOT "end tally counts". So when persons are doing flagged signal comparisons, ..... where they have ample time to try every trick in the book over known spots, then : NO amount of added time/experience is going to change that result. But let's cut the chase: This could be an isolated type of mineralization and/or EMI (that exists 100% of the time) that is unique to that zone. If you disagree, then : Git your b*tt up here πŸ™‚ It's only a 6 hr. drive πŸ™‚ PS: Also I forgot to note on the previous post that there was a singular half-block section yesterday, where all of the sudden my explorer was stuttering/static as well. But I noticed when I walked a bit further away, it started purring again. Versus my Nox friend, who had stutter NO MATTER WHERE HE WALKED.
  9. Dan you say : "...this was before the V3 update had come out." I'm glad you added this final sentence to your paragraph. Because for a moment, I thought you were going to try to say that this duel-result would-be-the-same, regardless. But since you added that last sentence : Then I'll hold-open the hope that my buddy's horrible results were the result of the V3. But this doesn't solve the dispute/debate on whether or not he can spank an Explorer, with NO v3 update. All we can do is for him to take off the v3, and do a re-match. But at this point, it's sort of pointless. As we are both now assuming that this area, is *simply* not suitable for the Nox, no matter WHAT the settings, and no matter WHO the user is. If you disagree, and think the Nox can spank the Explorer II here, then bring it up πŸ™‚ And I don't doubt your personal tallies improved when you made the switch. But .... I'm not so sure that the SE is the same as the II. They had differences, as you know. You say : ".....So, your Explorer was purring like a kitten the whole time during your hunt? Not a hint of EMI? What sensitivity were you using on your Exp? Yes. Stable. But I suspect there was interference below the audio level. Because sometimes a 6" deep wheatie or silver was "tough signals". And as you know, 6" is a cake-walk for explorers of any incarnation. But on the other hand, no, no audible chatter. My sens. level on the II was 18. I'm not sure if that corresponds with the scale of the SE pro or not. You say: ".... At most of these sites I’ve been hunting with my Nox, I’ve managed to pull many more silvers/wheats." With this quote, I can imagine my friend "pulling his hair out". It is what I predicted that , sure as heck, someone (with the V3 update, no less) could/would say "You're not doing it right", or "you must have the wrong settings", and "you need more practice". Trust me: For a good 5 hrs he tried everything in the book. And to the extent that he could make one of my signals come in, yet, that was the moment that when he went to swing anywhere else, a symphony of chatter, that is indistinguishable from the signal he just coaxed out of my flagged spot. Doh ! So you would NOT be able to convince him that ANY Nox user (not even the mighty Dan) is going to magically come by and get a totally different result. I would love to see my friend's face, when he reads this quote of yours. You say : ".... I doubt it...EMI is the variable!! It can be downright nasty at times, then somewhat manageable in the same area you’re hunting...." This is true. There are times, at certain sites, where even something like my Exp. II just suffers, for seemingly no reason. Then another trip, I get deepies that present no problems. Thus, sure, it's *possible* that it was just a fluke night. Like where someone in a nearby apartment left their blender or router/transmitter on, or the Muni bus line was doing electrical upgrades, blah blah. Who knows ? But .... at what point does anyone eliminate this as an excuse ? 3 trips ? 4 trips ? 10 trips ? At SOME point, 2 people are going to have to conclude : "This machine sucks here", and "This machine will not spank an Exp. here". Yes this is not representative of all turf. It could be a fluke (and exist 100% of the time there). So to be fair, my friend and I know a park in nearby Oakland, which is flush with easy pickens. Albeit just 1940s/50s wheaties/silver (ugly orange wheaties, and common newer silver). Perhaps my friend would want a rematch there. And in my experience, this park more accurately mimics low-rise anytown-USA type turf. But better yet: Get your duff up here ! haha You say : " .... Has there ever been a time at a site you’ve hunted where the EMI rendered your Explorer useless (even to you, being a master level Explorer hunter)? " I've been in places where I suspected that I was "not in tune" with the place. Like ... I can't find silver to save my life. Might be the machine (the Emi) at levels below audible. Or it could be my personal mood. But @ a single location, a freak event happened at a relicky site : I started getting chatter, no matter what settings I chose. Thus I assumed I must have a frayed chord. I hiked back to the truck, and made some coil swaps. But the problem continued. So I thought: "Must be in the sun-ray probe connections". So I hiked the long way again, and swapped out the probe. TO NO AVAIL. Thus yes, something had happened on that singular night, that never before , and never since then, has repeated itself in that spot. Hence, yes, I know what you're saying. But at the spot in question for this topic : It's an ongoing thing. And only got worse once he put the v3 on there.
  10. Hey gang, a buddy and I got back from a turf hunt in San Francisco yesterday. Him with his Nox 800 , with 3.0 update, and over a year now of experience under his belt. And me, with my Exp . II. In the past (10 months / year ago), I had spanked him on this section of turf @ 3x to 4x to 1 in oldies. But we wrote that off to a variety of factors : 1) He was new to the Nox at that time 2) he was still experimenting with settings, 3) The nox appeared to suffer after 7am-ish, when the "city comes to life" (EMI) in the downtown-ish area we're in. 4) That Tom was more familiar with this particular turf and type-sounds to chase, etc.... But now that he's had a year under his belt, and now that he has the 3.0 (which he'd read has claims to be able to better combat electrical noise interference ?) we went out for another re-match on this stretch. This time he had nothing but issues with the Nox 😞 Even starting at 1am (when the city is "sleeping"), his machine wouldn't settle down. Even dropping the sens down to rock-bottom lowest, you could STILL hear the un-ending chatter 😞 When it came time to trade off flagged signals : I would show him various wheaties and/or silver. He could only pick them up if he increased his sens. to moderately high levels. Which, of course, left him helpless the moment he swung anywhere else (ie.: chatter and beeps everywhere else too) . Hence the duel went horribly. The poor guy was shut down (he hadn't taken his SE pro for this trip). And on the previous trips last year, although he experienced chatter after 7am or so, yet this time was totally worse. The chatter was 2x as bad, and it existed no-matter-the-time of day. So all he could deduce was that it had something to do with the 3.0 It didn't matter that he switched to multi-mode (such that he's not opting for any of the new features that 3.0 offers). It is just something ingrained / hard-wired into the new update, that has now affected this EMI issue vulnerability. Final tallies were : Him : 4 wheaties and a silver roosie. Me: 24 wheaties, an IH, & 7 silvers (6 silver dimes (mercs/roosies) and a war nickel). To be fair, we *could* conclude that these horrible 3.0 results *only* manifest itself at *just* this one location. We could try other parks in low-rise districts that don't have the cell/radio/electrical/EMI issue. And to be fair : He kicked my B*tt , with his 800, earlier this year in a ghost-townsy iron-ridden gold-rush location. He was showing me signals that I had to admit I wouldn't have registered on -my-own. Yet on his machine, they were coming in with "room-to-spare". Yes, the Exp. II is not renowned for target-see-through in iron ridden situations. That's already a given. A good turf machine, yes. But a good iron-ridden ghost-town machine : No.
  11. try fiddling with your swing speed over suspected bottle caps. Ie.: a momentarily faster clip. And then do the same for coins. You might be able to discern the caps vs the coins by the way they react to slower vs faster swing over them.
  12. Dan - Raphis is a rock-star legend in CA md'ing circles. He can not escape his groupies ! MMuuuhhhahahaha
  13. Pandemic ? Ah c'mon, is that the best excuse you can come up with ? Tsk Tsk. 🀣
  14. Thank you for alerting me to that. I wasn't aware he was posting here, as that's not a sub-forum I'd clicked. Dan is so-far-advanced in turf hunting skill, that .... rumor has it that he's not really human. He's a robot, haha.
  15. Dan, It's good to see you posting on an md'ing forum ! Welcome . Your skill in junky park turf is legendary in CA ! As for the discussion of Nox vs Explorers : I know you had the SE, in the incarnation lineup of Explorers. And not sure if you're aware or not, but the SE suffered some criticism of being lesser depth than the other explorers in the evolution lineup. This was because when it evolved to the SE , one of the things Minelab attempted, was to speed up the processing, as you know. So as to be better in trash. A noble effort. HOWEVER, it had the subtle effect of lesser depth. Or at least TID at depth. Here's an example : I once bought an SE JUST TO GET THE INLINE PROBE off of it. And I decided to try out the SE on the wet salt beach, after we'd had some erosion. I wandered around for awhile and heard a few nails, but passed them. Eventually I finally got a waffling signal that took some "persuasion" to determine that it might be conductive. I dug a dime that .... IMHO *should* have been a bolder signal, at the depth I'd just dug it at. So on a hunch I doubled back to several "nails" that I'd passed. Lo & behold THEY TOO were deep coins. Hmmm. It was taking a lot of "persuasion" to make them hint at conductive. Otherwise, they were in the nail-grunt zone of audio. I posted my observations, and several people concurred that the SE does, in fact, get this criticism . So whereas the II will tend to get the TID on the first swing over the target, yet the SE requires more persuasion. Hence in effect, less depth. So when you say your Nox is beating the SE in turf for you, I wouldn't dispute this outcome. That's because I question the SE in the first place. HOWEVER : I'd love to see you go head to head with a proficient turf Exp II user. If you've got a weekend to come up this direction , there's a certain turf zone in SF where I've spanked a Nox user @ 2x to 1x on oldies. And trust me, it's NOT just chalked up to "experience" (that I have more years than him, or he's newer on his Nox, etc....). Because we are flagging signals back and forth. And he has all the time in the world to play with a myriad of Nox settings. And when it's all said and done, he has to admit he wouldn't have heard them. Trust me: He's studied all the forums for tips, etc... So I could go with "experience" causing the disparity, if all we did was count end of the day oldies. But when it comes to FLAGGING, then .... No amount of added "experience" is going to make a signal appear, that's simply not there no matter what settings you use. It's gotten to the point where he's attributing it to EMI and electrical/radio/cell interference. Because it seems to get worse for him when the "city wakes up after 7am". So we've tried starting at 4 or 5 am. And while it's a little better, he's still getting spanked . We fully intend to continue the experimentation, now that he's had more time on his machine. Would love to have you along. There's a couch you can crash on, and the beer's on me . You game ? Any time we visit this zone we never lack for back to back deepie wheatie/silver type signals. Some very deep and difficult, but still never lack getting a dozen or more wheaties, 2 or 3 or 4 silvers, etc... Lastly : When it comes to relicky ghost-townsy type hunting, then yes, the Nox is spanking me. But I'm the first to admit that the Exp II is not a good see-through/averaging/separating machine. It's great on turf (as you know) , but only so-so in iron-infested messes. Bring Jamflicker with you. I got 2 couches, haha.
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