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Tom_in_CA

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  1. pix of the Dog license ? What was the city name on it ?
  2. Hey there Beeper Bob, I think I know the ranch you're referring to. If we're talking the same location, I've pulled some PBs, a reale, and an early seated from there. Drop me a PM and let's compare notes.
  3. Some of the guy who fought in the 1860s in the CW, had previously gone to the CA gold rush. And then returned back home to their eastern states. And could conceivably have brought buttons back eastward. And while these pre-date the G.R. (1850s), yet : In CA, when the Gold Rush hit, a lot of coastal folk here in CA (where the missions were, and thus the PB's were), left the coast and went inland to the Sierras. This is one possible explanation as to why a few PB's have been found in the GR country. Since it's conceivable that some were still circulating along the coast in the late '40s/early '50s. And might thus explain why some THEN made their way back east. But others disagree and think they started from the east coast, and came overland westward. I don't buy that. There's just too many of them on the west coast , compared to only scattered presence on the east coast. So I say they arrived here on the west coast by ship, to the CA ports, and the Columbia River area. I know of hundreds and hundreds found in CA (heck, 100 from a single field alone !). Compared to the east coast where they are flukes. While it's true that the vast majority of the migration was east to west , yet some guys did indeed return back home to the east, when the GR fever petered out. This explains, for example, why 1850's S mint coins show up in CW sites, for example (albeit rare). The circulation time for PBs was the 1810s/20s. But I've found them in sites that were not habitated (by Europeans anyhow) till the 1840s. Meaning that some were still in use, even to the 1840s. Considering that there was a shortage of manufactured good on the west coast during Spanish & Mexican times, it makes sense that buttons would have been used and re-used, over and over. Thus some all the way to GR times, and thus perhaps making their way east. Interesting !
  4. Then I'm glad it's in the hands of persons who likewise appreciates the history . BTW, while these have been found east of the Mississippi, in various east coast states, yet for some reason NH seems to get the highest # of incidents. That adds to the intrigue of their travel path history of distribution. Ie.: Is there some particular reason for more there, than a few other east coast states that come to mind ? Interesting.
  5. Nice job. Those buttons are a "goal unto themselves" here in the extreme-hunter circles of CA. We love them. Here's an article I wrote on the subject. You can find your particular button here. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rX9XFCFw-SKRiUFZfdtzFg7GIjUwzoJJ/view?ts=6182e46f thanx for sharing !
  6. Geotech is right : Do not waste your time on ghost-story camp-fire legends. Just like O.I. : They sound *ssseeooo* compelling. Whenever fabulous treasures are discussed, we subconsciously put critical thinking aside. After all, you don't want to get laughed at all the way to the bank, do you ? But the moment you put it to scrutiny, they fall apart. Just ask yourself "says who ??" at each junction. As for the genre of 1960s/70s treasure magazine lore: Yes, each edition was packed full of "lost mine" and "stolen stagecoach" loot stories. So fun ! In fact, a buddy of mine even submitted one of those stories. Just so he could get the $100 author-article acceptance fee. It was entirely made up fancy. But hey, toss in a few faded newspaper clippings, add some real names and dates, add a drawing of a miner posed next to his burro, and ...... by golly ...... it must be true ! We got a good laugh wondering if anyone ever actually went searching for it.
  7. That LC is in nice shape. And judging from the pile you had to wade through to find it, you earned it !
  8. And thank you for the info. on Italy. As for the "ok to detect" but "can't keep antiquities", then actually, SO TOO do we have a similar situation here in the USA. But with much less-years-criteria. For federal land here (hence, doesn't apply to state or county or city lands, unless brought in by specific inclusion) . Our "ARPA" law would not disallow md'ing, UNLESS you were disturbing or taking antiquities. And that's generally interpreted to be 50 of 100 yrs old objects. So: You can hunt for modern coins in areas with such language. Eg. : fresh loss jewelry, nuggets in natural form, meteorites, etc... But just not old coins. Not unlike what you describe for Italy (the WWII helmet, versus the 2000 yr. old statue) HOWEVER, as for ARPA (aka "cultural heritage" issues) : As long as you're not snooping around obvious historic sensitive monuments, and not being an utter nuisance , traipsing through an archaeologist convention, then : Let's be dreadfully honest : Is anyone out roaming our deserts, forests, and beaches, armed with a calculator, doing the math on the ages of coins that we find ? OF COURSE NOT.
  9. I will not address the part of your post about "Greece", but in-so-far as Italy goes : I corresponded with a hunter from Italy before. And he had no problem md'ing. And no ..... the state didn't come to him and take all his finds, etc..... So I was the "devil's advocate" and linked him to "dire sounding laws" (that sound like what you're saying here) in those European compendiums that people compiled decades ago . You know, the ones that purport to list the laws of each European country, and often contain "dire sounding" info. He just chuckled and said that all the dire things you read there only apply to public land. Not private land. So "farmer Bob" is free to do whatever he wants on his own land. And that, besides, when he & his buddies go detecting, that ...... quite frankly ... they are so far out in the boondocks that there's no one one around to care, in the first place. And so he and many others detect Italy, no problem. And actually , we too, here in the USA, can also not technically keep things we find on public land either (if we wanted to fret ourselves silly enough). Because technically, it would fall under laws/rules that forbid "harvest", "remove", "steal", etc.... In other words, in the same way that I am forbidden to go take home the park benches, harvest the sod or sand for commercial sale, etc... SO TOO would the same verbiage also apply to coins and rings in the park. Now does anyone really care, when it comes to routine benign parks, forests, beaches ? OF COURSE NOT ! But if I asked enough lawyers and bureaucrats "can I ?", I'll bet I can find someone to tell me "no". And then I could publish that finding in a compendium of laws, and announce : MD'ing isn't allowed. Which is why you sometimes have to read between the lines on those compendium guide links.
  10. Actually, no, it's not a joke. And actually, the evolution of how these laws is easy to see . They exist in various wording, in all 50 states. 1) The evolution : Born out of wandering cattle laws of the 1800s. So that if someone's cow gets out of the owner's pasture, it's not the next guy's lucky day to "find" that cow, and simply keep it. See ? 2) And as for this being "a joke" in modern times, let's do a thought experiment : Let's say you are downtown with your wife, out for a romantic dinner at a nice restaurant. As you get back to your car, your wife immediately realizes she doesn't have her 2 carat diamond solitaire wedding ring on ! She remembers that she took it off in the restroom, when she had gone to wash her hands minutes earlier. So she rushes back to the restroom at the restaurant. But it's now gone. Ok, you tell me : Who does the ring belong to ? Your wife ? Or the lucky person who had gone into the restroom next, and "found" it ?? What if your wife dropped it on the sidewalk ? Or the beach ? And it's found a mere 5 minutes later before you had time to retrace your steps and pick it up ? Why would the laws be any different for us on the beach then ? See how these aren't ridiculous laws ?
  11. Actually, all 50 states have "lost & found" laws. That evolved out of wandering cattle laws of the 1800s. Typically stating something like : If you find an Item worth $100 (or $250 or whatever) or more, that you are required to take it to the police station. And if no one claims it after 30 days, then you are entitled to go back and get it. And there might be storage or processing fees for you to pay if you want to claim the item. Or the cost of them running a classified ad in the local paper, etc... And if they tell you "someone claimed the Rolex watch", they are under no obligation to tell you who claimed it (d/t privacy law concerns). So ... you almost have to wonder if the Rolex watch might ... uh ... disappear in the bureaucracy of that desk, eh ? 🤔 And these laws are for good purpose. So that you can't walk away with the mountain bike that you "found" leaning up against the park bench. Or if a Brinks armored car crashes along the freeway, you are not welcome to "find" wads of cash. Thus: Do they apply to the fumble fingers rings, watches, etc... that we md'rs find ? (assuming they're over the value of the L&F law criteria) ? SURE ! That's why all us guys that post show & tell, of our latest rings, are rushing down to police stations everywhere, turning them in. Ok ? 🙄
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